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View Full Version : Most Important Feature - Priority Passing



RanaDunes
10-09-2013, 12:01 AM
Being a TCG gamer for 20 years and having played almost every online TCG out there I really think CZE should read what I say here because I assure you it matters.

I was reading the Alpha Notes somewhere in the forum and a CZE official stated that you can adjust priority speed from 10 to 3 seconds. I know you can press SPACE to pass game stages. But you have to understand this is not enough; not even close.

We need priority passing to be bound to a key (like the SPACE key passing one stage) but we also need the ability to pass the whole turn instantly (very helpful for first few turns). Of course mandatory game mechanics will need to be addressed if necessary.

If you haven't played MTGO and used F1 - F7 keys then you probably don't know why this is helpful. Since Hex plays idnetically to MTG and because we will be able to react to almost every action the player is doing (or ability) a "always yield to trigger x" option needs to be considered.

I know I am assuming things and I have missed the last Twitch stream but I really.... really... think this should be addressed. If CZE miss to implement this "feature"? I think they're going to leave experienced players feel uncomfortable. The reason why I hated all other online TCGs (especially MTG recent ones; not MTGO) is the extremely slow and annoyingly restricting priority passing decision they've made. I simply cannot play a slow and unresponsive Online TCG game.

Please consider this.

Chiany
10-09-2013, 12:16 AM
All I here you say is I this, I that.
and like you said, you haven't even watched last nights stream.

Maybe you should put YOUR desires aside and look to the big picture.

To me you come over as a spoiled child, acting in a pure selfish way.

Ridian
10-09-2013, 12:33 AM
I think by the time the game is in beta and it doesn't have the features you are looking for, then you can complain/suggest. It is in Alpha, and that's not even out yet.

Right now the game is just the bare basics. Just calm down.

They have a lot of experienced people working on the game and obviously have MTGO to draw inspiration from, I seriously doubt they are going to over look any important/meaningful features.

shizuyami
10-09-2013, 12:34 AM
I think someone mentioned last night at the stream that there will be a pass all priority button.

Eierdotter
10-09-2013, 12:41 AM
a hotkey ("space") to pass 1 priority seems perfectly fine for me
but i would like to have the option to mouse click a certain phase and confirm this with another "space" (i do not like to end a turn by accidentally hitting the hotkey)

RanaDunes
10-09-2013, 12:45 AM
All I here you say is I this, I that.
and like you said, you haven't even watched last nights stream.

Maybe you should put YOUR desires aside and look to the big picture.

To me you come over as a spoiled child, acting in a pure selfish way.

It's not a personal desire; it's a key feature to Hex' success in my opinion.
Give me one reason why this feature is unnecessary?


I think someone mentioned last night at the stream that there will be a pass all priority button.

That would be neat if CZE can confirm it.
A key-bind is necessary; having to click a button is still slow.

shizuyami
10-09-2013, 12:55 AM
It was actually the stream itself in the twitch chat that said there is going to be a pass all priority button. So the guy handling the chat for them over there said it which is someone from CZE.

Khazrakh
10-09-2013, 12:58 AM
It's not what you say RanaDunes, it's the way you say it. I do agree about the feature, a always yield/pass all button is mandatory in my book.
Still, the way you keep demanding it makes people go against anything you propose. It's simple psychology really. You don't suggest - you demand to have it done in the exact way you say. And not only that, you go on to tell everybody how experienced you are and how everybody who doesn't agree just has to be a noob.
I mean no offense here, but as long as you keep posting like that people just won't listen no matter how valid your point actually is.

Shadowelf
10-09-2013, 12:59 AM
It was actually the stream itself in the twitch chat that said there is going to be a pass all priority button. So the guy handling the chat for them over there said it which is someone from CZE.

Yeap saw it too being mentioned at the stream's chat; hex tcg was definately cze personnel (shaqattaq perhaps ?)

Carbon12
10-09-2013, 06:04 AM
I have been thinking about this since some of the first streams. I think the client should look at your hand and what you have on the table to see if there's anything you can even do before it asks you for priority. If you are out of "mana" or don't have any quick actions or creature abilities, what could you do that the game needs to ask you to pass the priority. Now the only thing I can see as being an obstacle to this is programming it in. After watching the stream yesterday, I think this might be a little bit less of an issue, but I think it's still a good idea.

shizuyami
10-09-2013, 06:32 AM
I have been thinking about this since some of the first streams. I think the client should look at your hand and what you have on the table to see if there's anything you can even do before it asks you for priority. If you are out of "mana" or don't have any quick actions or creature abilities, what could you do that the game needs to ask you to pass the priority. Now the only thing I can see as being an obstacle to this is programming it in. After watching the stream yesterday, I think this might be a little bit less of an issue, but I think it's still a good idea.

And then my opponent knows that I have no options in my hand right away when all those priorities get passed right away xd. It would take away the bluffing part..

Faine
10-09-2013, 06:33 AM
A key-bind is necessary; having to click a button is still slow.

Wow, really? You're so damn impatient you can't take the extra second to click a damn button?

TZHX
10-09-2013, 06:42 AM
And then my opponent knows that I have no options in my hand right away when all those priorities get passed right away xd. It would take away the bluffing part..

This (ie, don't make passing priority automatic just cos we can't do anything). But the game highlighting to you that there's actually nothing you can do at the moment would be helpful.

And I'd rather a combination of on-screen button/key binding. It doesn't need to be one or the other, but both. That way both types of users are happy.

EmraldArcher
10-09-2013, 06:56 AM
Wow, really? You're so damn impatient you can't take the extra second to click a damn button?

When you're playing in a damn tournament with a damn timer the extra second it takes to click a damn button to pass priority 7 or 8 times a damn turn adds up.

Chiany
10-09-2013, 06:58 AM
When you're playing in a damn tournament with a damn timer the extra second it takes to click a damn button to pass priority 7 or 8 times a damn turn adds up.

Try again without the cursing.

nickon
10-09-2013, 06:59 AM
Why is this even being discussed in the Alpha forum :D I think this is one of the things CZE will figure out along the way to make the game more solid. But in alpha stage, I think they have more important develoment to focus on.

Jbizzi
10-09-2013, 07:37 AM
Being a TCG gamer for 20 years and having played almost every online TCG out there I really think CZE should read what I say here because I assure you it matters.


Stopped reading there. I assure you.

Daer
10-09-2013, 07:37 AM
They are obviously iterating the priority system, as can be seen in each stream.

Makos
10-09-2013, 07:48 AM
As a current MTG player I agree on the point that pass priority button should be added to the game, but come on guys. Like it've been said before, its just an ALPHA. Cory himself said it many, many times. Its just a sketch of how the game will look like. For now, we're given the opportunity to see and play the game in pre-pre-pre release state.

Having team consisting of so many great people leave me assured that such feature, or something working even better than that will be added on time.

So, until then, behave yourself, for the sake of community.

phyzycs
10-09-2013, 07:51 AM
I think it's a little too soon to tell how the priority system is going to work concretely. Since we are in Alpha and there are changes being made (sometimes on a daily basis), I think it's okay to put the suggestion in and see if you get a response from CZE. I would submit that thought in a bug report in the form of a suggestion, however. I do think that the context in the OP appears to be somewhat demanding. Tighten it up with some concrete suggestions on gameplay and you have yourself a great constructive post ^_^

EmraldArcher
10-09-2013, 08:00 AM
Try again without the cursing.

You Danes are a grouchy and humorless people aren't you?

Sergan
10-09-2013, 08:07 AM
Stopped reading there. I assure you.

me too..
lot arrogance.. =/

Dregoths
10-09-2013, 08:08 AM
This is a important feature, and during Alpha we can give constructive comments. Is good we talk about this, but we can't really give any feedback till Alpha. The start by RanaDunes was, in my opinion, a good post. Maybe a a bit demanding, but when people really want a game to succeed they give it there all.

houjix
10-09-2013, 08:10 AM
It's something that has been brought up several times and I'm pretty sure they are aware that phase stops and autopasses are something the game needs.

Berkhtar
10-09-2013, 09:04 AM
I have been thinking about this since some of the first streams. I think the client should look at your hand and what you have on the table to see if there's anything you can even do before it asks you for priority. If you are out of "mana" or don't have any quick actions or creature abilities, what could you do that the game needs to ask you to pass the priority. Now the only thing I can see as being an obstacle to this is programming it in. After watching the stream yesterday, I think this might be a little bit less of an issue, but I think it's still a good idea.

That is how DotP does it. If you are not able to do sth the game simply continues.

You have only 1 resource and all your cards need at least 2 resources... great pass. But you have to keep in mind that you opponent could do something.

So you need at least a few seconds in every phase that your opponent could cast any quick actions.

GatticusFinch
10-09-2013, 09:13 AM
This (ie, don't make passing priority automatic just cos we can't do anything). But the game highlighting to you that there's actually nothing you can do at the moment would be helpful.

And I'd rather a combination of on-screen button/key binding. It doesn't need to be one or the other, but both. That way both types of users are happy.

This is the correct answer. Your opponent cannot be clued in to the type and cost of the cards in your hand in the interest of speeding the game up by 10 seconds, as it would totally ruin the experience. Now, if the game let you know you have no plays and put an auto-pass button up as an option, that would be useful.

hex_colin
10-09-2013, 09:15 AM
I like the OP's idea. His messaging... not so much...

Honestly, it's not bad at all when you actually playing the game. For example, I can easily get in a 10 turn game against the AI in under 5 minutes with most decks, even with insane numbers of troops in play.

Jbizzi
10-09-2013, 09:41 AM
I like the OP's idea. His messaging... not so much...

Honestly, it's not bad at all when you actually playing the game. For example, I can easily get in a 10 turn game against the AI in under 5 minutes with most decks, even with insane numbers of troops in play.

Damnit Colin, stop torturing us with you anecdotal knives!

But yeah, I agree with most here that different hot keys (buttons) are necessary to move through the game at the pace you desire.

RCDv57
10-09-2013, 09:46 AM
Makes sense why the ability to play faster was requested.
I just watched the finals of a pro tour finals, and everyone is just so twitchy.
I prefer a slower pace of game, thats why I like TCG's. Although I wouldn't complain if tools put in for other players to speed things up.
(As long as it doesn't turn into StarCraft)

copulat0r
10-09-2013, 10:01 AM
(As long as it doesn't turn into StarCraft)

400 APM to be qualified for HEX Worlds.

sakaye
10-09-2013, 10:32 AM
The OP makes a valid point even if he is standoffish. When playing MTGO and you only have a couple minutes left on your clock be able to pass through your priorities quickly is needed so you don't run down your clock. But even if you have no playable cards and some resources still up, the game should not auto pass through your phases. This would take away any bluffing we could possibly do.

koshercub
10-09-2013, 10:58 AM
The OP makes a valid point even if he is standoffish. When playing MTGO and you only have a couple minutes left on your clock be able to pass through your priorities quickly is needed so you don't run down your clock. But even if you have no playable cards and some resources still up, the game should not auto pass through your phases. This would take away any bluffing we could possibly do.

Wait so in MTGO matches are timed??? Not just turns? That seems like a poor way of making a tourney. How about just time turns instead. It doesn't take forever to just click pass priority or even <space> so I think people are just complaining just to complain. Either that or someone needs to take some ADHD meds.

houjix
10-09-2013, 11:00 AM
Wait so in MTGO matches are timed??? Not just turns? That seems like a poor way of making a tourney. How about just time turns instead. It doesn't take forever to just click pass priority or even <space> so I think people are just complaining just to complain. Either that or someone needs to take some ADHD meds.

MTGO uses a chess clock where it runs when you priority and the opponent's runs when they do. You have 25 mins for the match. If you run out before getting two games wins you lose.

jotting
10-09-2013, 11:08 AM
Wait so in MTGO matches are timed??? Not just turns?

If you watch the streams Hex is timed too. On the left hand side between the opposing champion and your champion you can see a 30 minute timer for each person.

phyzycs
10-09-2013, 11:23 AM
Actually, pretty much all competitive TCG is timed; albeit, with more than 25 minutes typically. In most tournament structures (CCG's and LCG's alike), you will have anywhere from 1 hour to 1 hour and 15 minutes to compete your match. Matches typically can have three possible games. 25 minutes for a game really isn't unrealistic. However, I think casual gaming should be more lenient.

So, if we were to suggest timing structure, I would like to see these types of rules enforced for tournament structure. Likewise, lenient timing would be acceptable for me for casual play.

Daer
10-09-2013, 11:25 AM
Online games have shorter clocks because generally the game is much faster since the client handles most things automatically.

houjix
10-09-2013, 11:25 AM
Actually, pretty much all competitive TCG is timed; albeit, with more than 25 minutes typically. In most tournament structures (CCG's and LCG's alike), you will have anywhere from 1 hour to 1 hour and 15 minutes to compete your match. Matches typically can have three possible games. 25 minutes for a game really isn't unrealistic. However, I think casual gaming should be more lenient.

So, if we were to suggest timing structure, I would like to see these types of rules enforced for tournament structure. Likewise, lenient timing would be acceptable for me for casual play.


Keep in mind it's 25 min per person, so 50 minutes for the match, but each player is afforded equal time.

Liokae
10-09-2013, 12:20 PM
Wait so in MTGO matches are timed??? Not just turns? That seems like a poor way of making a tourney. How about just time turns instead. It doesn't take forever to just click pass priority or even <space> so I think people are just complaining just to complain. Either that or someone needs to take some ADHD meds.

It's both. You have your match timer that it initially draws from (though with an AFK timeout on it); when that ticks down to zero, you're given a much shorter round timer each round.