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View Full Version : Deck Factory 1: Eldritch Prison



David_Rose
10-09-2013, 09:38 PM
Here! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ToSwGu5-Q4)

Core point is to abuse Eldritch Dream in combination with the first Ruby Major gem, enabling land destruction. Will update this threat later as I am able to test and flesh out the deck!

murmeli
10-10-2013, 12:39 AM
Friendly reminder for all those who makes these videos.

Listen your own videos.

Your recording audio setting is too high, your voice breaks. Hard to listen.

Syphers
10-10-2013, 12:50 PM
do you have any removal counters?

bangari
10-10-2013, 01:55 PM
Having just 4 cards with land destruction abilities doesn't a prison deck make. Especially when the 4 can't be on the board at the same time, can be taken out by removal and destroys mana at a 1/turn rate.

I'm sure Eldritch Dream will be powerful, but this is not a feasible prison deck in any way. At most its a deck that can, on occasion, screw with your opponent's mana.

the_artic_one
10-10-2013, 02:48 PM
Having just 4 cards with land destruction abilities doesn't a prison deck make.
8, demolitions too.



Especially when the 4 can't be on the board at the same time

Eldritch dream isn't unique, what do you mean?


Also you're forgetting that you can use buccaneer, time ripple, and countermagic to increase costs making the 1 resource per turn destruction more crippling.

Vengus
10-10-2013, 03:01 PM
8, demolitions too.


Eldritch dream isn't unique, what do you mean?


Also you're forgetting that you can use buccaneer, time ripple, and countermagic to increase costs making the 1 resource per turn destruction more crippling.
Don't forget Mimic to copy the Eldritch to speed things up. :P

bangari
10-10-2013, 04:50 PM
8, demolitions too.


Eldritch dream isn't unique, what do you mean?


Also you're forgetting that you can use buccaneer, time ripple, and countermagic to increase costs making the 1 resource per turn destruction more crippling.

Pretty certain the gold trophy ish looking symbol at the side means "unique".

either way, your whole plan involves a single creature, of which you have at most 4 copy of. Even Mimic still req that you 1) draw that card and 2) it survives their turn so you can cast mimic one your turn next round. Those are all big ifs. Everyone with a decent deck is going to spend removal to kill it the turn after drops (you have nearly no effective protection against that). 3 toughness is certainly better than 2, but there are still a lot of removal that will kill it.

if you don't draw those 4 cards or if it gets removed when it drops, you have zero alternative win condition. You only have a 50% chance of having it on turn 3. If it dies (and it will a vast majority of the time if your opponent knows what he is doing), the chance of you coming upon the 2nd or having it in your hand is much much lower.

You will never find competitive decks putting all their cards on a single 4x playset of creature cards with no ETB ability or innate survival mechanism (something like hexproof + can't be blocked), because it doesn't work. In mtg for example, expectation of creature remove is to the point where big drops which doesn't impact the board the moment it drops is considered unplayable in a competitive setting under most situations. The expectation is that they will die outright before your next turn more than half of the time.

You have 4 cards that will win you the game. Midrange and control will have MUCH more cards that will kill it. They will also have multiple chance to draw those since your plan will take multiple turns to pay off. The impact of resource removal on aggro is weaker to begin with. Best case scenario, on turn 6 you've killed 2 resources. By then, aggro decks routinely end games.

even assuming they don't have removal and you are successful in getting hits off. Why not just add a fury 2 gem and immediately put your opponent on a 4 turn clock?

I'm not saying having it destroy a resource isn't powerful. It is. But its not consistent enough to build a prison deck around. Just have it around in your midrange/control deck as a must kill creature that will mess things up for your enemy if they don't manage to. Don't make it so that its your only win condition, cause most of the time it will fail.

Edit: Confirmed that the gold crown symbol = unique. they never specified wat it means, but it should be along the lines of "one max on the battlefield at any one time"

EmraldArcher
10-10-2013, 08:44 PM
Pretty certain the gold trophy ish looking symbol at the side means "unique".

Edit: Confirmed that the gold crown symbol = unique.

100% certain you're wrong smart guy.

jtatta
10-10-2013, 10:17 PM
Unique cards say unique. The gold symbol is the faction.

David_Rose
10-10-2013, 10:47 PM
Don't make it so that its your only win condition, cause most of the time it will fail.

This is absolutely correct, of course. The plan was never to make it the only win con.; this is really just a bare skeleton of a deck I want to make. The final version will only come after I've been able to play it for myself. While a deck being competitive is a wonderful thing for a deck to be, TCGs are highly experiential and many different kinds of play can provide different values to different people. Perhaps this was an error on my part; I could understand how posting a barebones skeleton opens itself up to infinite criticism, while at the same time attempts to avoid any criticisms. Whatever the case, I hope you will come back and watch the second video when I have time to make it, which will give a much more detailed run-down of each card and at what quantities I'll be playing in the deck. This might not happen until I've had time to play it, as generally I don't like to talk about things like final deck specs and exact card quantities until after I've experienced the deck first-hand.

You also have a point that it is not strictly a prison deck in terms of its definition in M:TG; the name was more of a playful attempt to point out the fact that I intended to use the land destruction gem on Eldritch Dream. :)

bangari
10-11-2013, 09:34 AM
forget the unique then. that was never the crux of my argument anyways.

Like you said, this isn't anywhere close to being a prison deck, so i'm not seeing an actual reason for the resource destruction as opposed to something else. Its great if you can get in 2 hits and kill 2 mana, but why not just killing him outright with this card plus rage 2? If you have a standard control deck that can protect this card for 3 turns, your opponent flat out dies.

You're putting a lot of resources into synergizing with those 4 cards. There is no reason too. A standard midrange/control with this card in them (but isn't based on it) is far more powerful than a deck that tries too card to adhere to the prison theme.

David_Rose
10-11-2013, 09:44 AM
I'm a very controlling player, it's my natural style. I like the idea of resource destruction but generally it is not printed with enough frequency or at a high enough power level to be worth running in a standard constructed format. However, the cost increase cards in this set seem to have very good synergy with land destruction and are also very good cards in their own right; time ripple, buccanneer and countermagic among them(I hope more are revealed later, but that remains to be seen). A rage 2 gem would be more efficient for turning eldritch dream into a pure aggro creature, but in the video I actually mention I intend to run a powerful rage effect on Ash Harpy in the later part of the game. While land destruction is not a good plan A in general and I can understand the confusion based on the deck title, the idea here is to experiment with land destruction + cost increase in the format to see if it is a viable plan B; after all there is always the circumstance, no matter how good the player or how well-built the deck, where your opponent will be too low on mana for their ideal curve and destruction can be very good at punishing players who do not mulligan aggressively enough. So think of this more as "I really like the idea of running the ruby gem on this guy, and I really like land destruction in general; let's see if there's enough cards to make this work". Of course there are still something like 70 cards in set 1 alone that aren't in alpha right now, so who knows what we'll end up with in the end.