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praesidium
10-10-2013, 11:46 AM
So, alpha is live, Grand Kings and higher are playing.

How are the servers holding?

I mean game bugs don't matter in terms of letting more people in since those happen if u have 0 or 10k ppl playing, what matters is server load.

We all know there was a problem with the installer download but that's fixed now and even if it wasn't fixed, letting more people in wouldn't make a lot more ppl dowload the game, since mostly everyone did already, or is in the process of doing so, and there are torrents now aswell.

How are ingame servers holding the ammount of ppl that was in?

Since that cryptozoic predicted that maybe they could let everyone in in 4 or 5 days with new waves everyday, i was kinda expecting they focusing on server problems and letting us know how they were managing the load and when they were letting more people in.

but no, 0 news about it, or did i miss anything?

I don't mind waiting, but i feel lied to. I thought they would do their best efforts to let ppl in, focusing on server loads instead of solving bugs until they had everyone in.

Marsden
10-10-2013, 11:51 AM
Most people have barely started to get in, given the install issues. I don't think there is any sign of seeing how the servers actually withstand the weight of people yet.

AceBladewing
10-10-2013, 11:51 AM
How do you feel lied to when they said within 4 or 5 days and it hasn't even been out for an entire day?

Kagim
10-10-2013, 11:53 AM
It's Thursday.
This started Tuesday.
They said they would try to get everyone in as fast as they could, meaning if they don't feel the servers are ready for it they will not let people in.
You are not being lied to.
You need to remember that this is not a full release of a game, that this is an actual alpha stage.
Problems will happen, things will not always go exactly as planned.
They will give you news when they have something actually useful to say.
Relax, go do something else, your e-mail will come.

praesidium
10-10-2013, 11:53 AM
How do you feel lied to when they said within 4 or 5 days and it hasn't even been out for an entire day?

they said EVERY BACKER within 4 or 5 days , not second wave, second wave they said second day. they
did said maybe tho... but still...

I just wanna know if the servers are dying and when they're expecting to let more people in.

Typhon
10-10-2013, 11:54 AM
I wouldn't say that GK+ are "playing"; since most of the people are at work right now. I imagine tonight will be the real test as people finally work out their installations and start getting games in.

As for when CZE will determine to open it back up; only they know. I'm sure there have already been quite a few bugs logged and they might want to get those items fixed before allowing in another way (that are just going to submit the same bugs).

phyzycs
10-10-2013, 11:54 AM
Since that cryptozoic predicted that maybe they could let everyone in in 4 or 5 days with new waves everyday, i was kinda expecting they focusing on server problems and letting us know how they were managing the load and when they were letting more people in.

but no, 0 news about it, or did i miss anything?

I don't mind waiting, but i feel lied to. I thought they would do their best efforts to let ppl in, focusing on server loads instead of solving bugs until they had everyone in.

You're not missing anything. Just be patient. There's no need to freak out. You have anywhere between now and a couple weeks until you receive your email. There's no reason to feel lied to as no promises were made and we're only on day one.

Sergan
10-10-2013, 11:55 AM
uff guys.. u really jelly with this.. =/

beepharoni
10-10-2013, 11:56 AM
Don't blame CZE for people not being able to play. Blame the people who posted the download link to their private guild forums, or on these forums. That move delayed the initial server stress test because many GK-producer tier players were unable to even finish downloading (I know personally, my download took 17 hours to complete, and i had 127 corrupt files that I set to repair before i left for work this morning.

Be patient, instead of posting yet ANOTHER one of these posts to the forums.

You were not lied to, they made no promises of you getting in immediately.

Daer
10-10-2013, 11:59 AM
they said EVERY BACKER within 4 or 5 days , not second wave, second wave they said second day.

No they didn't. They gave an example of what could possibly happen if the servers worked perfectly, which didn't happen. They will let more people in when they are ready. Most of the people who have been invited so far still aren't ingame yet.

Svenn
10-10-2013, 11:59 AM
but no, 0 news about it, or did i miss anything?

You missed something: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=27943
They are posting alpha info right where they said it would be. They were having some issues already. Also, it's been available for less than 24 hours... few people have finished downloading and made it in game and most of us are probably at work right now so they haven't hit load at all yet. Unfortunately, the leaked client and all the people trying to download it slowed down everyone trying to actually get in game, so they didn't really get a chance to get any info in terms of in-game load yet so I doubt they can even consider letting new people in yet.


they said EVERY BACKER within 4 or 5 days , not second wave, second wave they said second day. they
did said maybe tho... but still...

I just wanna know if the servers are dying and when they're expecting to let more people in.
Where exactly did they say that? They never gave any specific times as to when people would get in. There was a lot of speculation, but no real timeline from Crypto.

Handsofevil
10-10-2013, 12:00 PM
GK checking in, I'm still patching since I had to work all morning. And the 4-5 days I keep seeing mentioned, that was a BEST CASE SCENARIO. They even said that they are HOPING for that timeline. Obviously that isn't the case since they had to put off the release a day, and most GK+ couldn't get in until today. So assuming there are few server issues, start your 5day countdown now. That is assuming there are NO major issues that they have to deal with. Each one that pops up, add a day between waves. Be practical, not greedy.

Kagim
10-10-2013, 12:01 PM
they said EVERY BACKER within 4 or 5 days , not second wave, second wave they said second day. they
did said maybe tho... but still...

I just wanna know if the servers are dying and when they're expecting to let more people in.

They said:

When Do I Get Into Alpha?

It's impossible to say at this time, but I can assure you that anytime we can safely add a batch of users to the server, we will do so. Everything is dependent on server stability and a host of other engineering variables that have yet to be tested. We will get everybody into the game as soon as we can.

In the last update.

In Update 47:

As to the roll out, clearly we cannot simple dump the entire base into an untested server platform; players will have to trickle in. My hope is we do relatively small batches the first couple of days and based on that info we throttle it as high as we can reasonably go to get everyone in as quickly as possible. As an example: if we let in 500 people day one, 1000 day two, and the server is handling it no problem, we could go 5000 day three and the rest day four, but this is all based on server performance.

There is NO but still.

hotshot25120
10-10-2013, 12:04 PM
If I check the live stream there around 10 people online right now in HEX if the server cant hold with 10 user im afraid for the future.

Also dont forget people from all around the world pledge with kickstarter and with different timezone so not everyone will be online at the same time.

I would like to have a update too at least to start downloading the game.

hotshot25120
10-10-2013, 12:05 PM
from twitter :

@Yeckly
Tomorrow's my day off. What are the chances of second wave of @HexTCG Alpha invites going out before then?


‏@HexTCG
now that the CDN is upgraded, we're focusing on server load and stability. can't say anything for certain right now.

Soul-of-Void
10-10-2013, 12:13 PM
we need to wait like 24h now so CZE can see how servers will hold up thnn maybe they give info about 2nd wave

Mugaaz
10-10-2013, 12:19 PM
I and the rest of the GKs I know havent played yet. It downloaded all day yesterday and didn't finish before I went to bed. My first time logging in will be after work. Most of the GK+ have full time jobs, if they want to see load theyll have to check during prime time tonight to get an idea.

nearlysober
10-10-2013, 12:20 PM
Most GK and higher can't even get the game installed. I downloaded all night (6pm - midnight got me 35%) and tried to login before leaving for work (that thing I do that enabled me to pledge GK).

I got the client to run but can't login, wouldn't take my username / password.

Calm the hell down, you're not missing much

Wolver_the_Zeta
10-10-2013, 12:38 PM
It's very very close to unplayable at this point. So far I'm hitting around 1/4 to 1/5 games that finishes. I don't know that more people having the same experience is going to help Crypto any.

Khazrakh
10-10-2013, 12:41 PM
It's very very close to unplayable at this point. So far I'm hitting around 1/4 to 1/5 games that finishes. I don't know that more people having the same experience is going to help Crypto any.

Agreed. From the Streams I've watched so far maybe 2 games really got played to the end. Crypto really should just take their time to squash those bugs first.

Daer
10-10-2013, 12:42 PM
Yeah I'm at work and can't really play but I did try a game and I got the "Unable to Pass Priority" bug after 4 turns. I also don't have 4 copies of every card. You aren't missing much judging by the volume of bugs in the bug forum.

houjix
10-10-2013, 12:46 PM
I got two AI games in with no priority glitches. War Hulk Factory didn't work as people were saying so I turned it into a War Hulk with the 6 drop artifact instead. :D

Ashenor
10-10-2013, 12:47 PM
It's finally installed at home, checked remotely, but still have yet to play.

Reldan
10-10-2013, 12:52 PM
The main benefit to them of providing an Alpha like this is so that we can help them test their hardware and servers. This is so far removed from the the actual game that you probably should think of it more like a "when do they need us to help them test stuff so the game will be better later" than as an opportunity to have serious play. If you've ever done QA, it's rare that it's fun because the purpose is to make sure it works first and that it's entertaining later.

nicosharp
10-10-2013, 12:54 PM
Everytime I get sad about not being able to play yet, I have to remind myself that it is alpha. The scarier thought is "when the hell is Beta?"

mydragoon
10-10-2013, 07:27 PM
The main benefit to them of providing an Alpha like this is so that we can help them test their hardware and servers. This is so far removed from the the actual game that you probably should think of it more like a "when do they need us to help them test stuff so the game will be better later" than as an opportunity to have serious play. If you've ever done QA, it's rare that it's fun because the purpose is to make sure it works first and that it's entertaining later.
agreed. which is why i find it really ridiculous that people are coming in here (GK or othwerwise) to complain... this is what alpha is all about -- fixing the bugs, etc... then there's also beta which is also about improving the game.

those who want to play only... i suggest trying beta after its been released for 2-3 weeks. dun even bother with alpha.

if you want alpha... expect the worst that can happen -- including somehow crashing windows. :)

nyikhmur
10-11-2013, 04:13 AM
Hey,

I absolutely agree that complaining is ridiculous, on the other hand I d like to see some info about what the developers are doing, like:
"We are working on download/login issues, as soon as its done, we ll be able to see how the servers handle current load. We ll be releasing second wave after that."

Xenavire
10-11-2013, 04:27 AM
They have been updating. Just not every 5 minutes like a twitter junky.

I would rather they use the manpower to fix the bugs.

Khazrakh
10-11-2013, 04:30 AM
They have been updating. Just not every 5 minutes like a twitter junky.

I would rather they use the manpower to fix the bugs.

This!
There have been 10 updates in 3 days by the way...

gohan661
10-11-2013, 04:45 AM
This is a <redacted> outrage! No where did it say the more money you give us the earlier you'll get into alpha. I'm sure that would've convinced many people to up their backings. This is a sham and I feel very victimised by all this.

Well that's what i would be saying if, by the looks of it, the game was not almost unplayable. And Beyond two souls came out today (here) so. I am happy to wait.... this time ^.^




This!
There have been 10 updates in 3 days by the way...

That is really not enough

keroko
10-11-2013, 04:50 AM
some you people been hitting up 'dat ferralweed I think.

we get lots of updates. consider their perspective. Some guy communicating to us here has to talk to a bunch of others burning full steam. some of them might not be the most approachable on their 50th hour of work in 4 days, but they grit their teeth and stop and tell their folks what's going on.

then they've got to deal with the fact that whatever they say will be dissected in a blender resultant of player desire to play.

its gotta be a tricky business.

zaril
10-11-2013, 04:58 AM
I personally am just glad Hex is being worked on by these great people, I can wait weeks if needed, the real thing is when the game is completed and released to the public anyway. Anything before that is us helping them make this game greater to our own and their benefit, so sit back, relax and enjoy the ride when it arrives at your door, let's not be impatient for things that take a lot of time. Being a systemdeveloper myself, I have great sympathy for what CZE is dealing with here. I'm one of the patient and happy "customers", and I invite anyone else to be one as well. :D

See ya in game in the future, when we might face off! ;)

Blowfeld
10-11-2013, 05:27 AM
OP is the sort of people that first cry out loud because of impatience and then cry out loud because of bugs in alpha once they are in.

It's amusing how impatient and frustrated people are nowadays :D

Soul-of-Void
10-11-2013, 06:06 AM
Its internet there so much impatient cry babies as stars on sky xD

Redbeastmage
10-11-2013, 06:13 AM
Once they fix the biggest bug of priorty hangups in the games, they will likely be able to get a real feel for things. But right now, inviting more people into the alpha won't do any good since finishing 2/10 games isn't really resulting in good testing. Also.
OP is the sort of people that first cry out loud because of impatience and then cry out loud because of bugs in alpha once they are in.

ShadowIronblood
10-11-2013, 07:15 AM
They have also said 24 hours of server data isn't enough to make sure everyone can make it in okay plus not every has gotten their keys or able to begin. I for one am willing to wait. Rather wait and get in or have my key and not able to sign in to the game....that'll be horrible.

knightofeffect
10-11-2013, 08:15 AM
Once they fix the biggest bug of priorty hangups in the games, they will likely be able to get a real feel for things. But right now, inviting more people into the alpha won't do any good since finishing 2/10 games isn't really resulting in good testing. Also.

There has also been some evidence that server load has a direct bearing on the priority bug. If that is the case, adding more people would go from more or less unplayable to a deck building game without a full set. :)

Banquetto
10-11-2013, 01:57 PM
If not getting into alpha quickly enough makes you angry, then you'd be better off not getting into alpha at all, because the bugs and problems you will deal with when you're in will make you really angry.

To maximise your enjoyment, I recommend doing something else until beta. Or maybe even until the official launch if you have a really low tolerance for problems.

praesidium
10-11-2013, 02:52 PM
If not getting into alpha quickly enough makes you angry, then you'd be better off not getting into alpha at all, because the bugs and problems you will deal with when you're in will make you really angry.

To maximise your enjoyment, I recommend doing something else until beta. Or maybe even until the official launch if you have a really low tolerance for problems.

Guys like you are the ones that make me mad lol.

We know what an alpha is, we can handle bugs and crashes and all the downtime in the world, we just want to test the game, and to know when to expect that we can do so.

Personally i wanna test the bugs hard, for curiosity, the more bugs the merrier, because it's more stuff i can help with finding out. And profissionally the rawrer the game is the better it is for me to understand their difficulties with doing something like hex.

i'm just not enjoying much the difference of F**ks that CZE is showing that they give for different tiers of backers.

and i don't like to be misguided, and the only projection they said was new people every day until everyone was in, i know that was in a good-case scenario, but they never gave an impression that bad case scenario noone would be in after the all mighty 500-10k$ backers for at least a week.

schild
10-11-2013, 02:58 PM
Now, this is the sort of thread that should just be nuked from orbit.

keroko
10-11-2013, 02:58 PM
i do hope this is the final hoorah for the rich with regard to time gated access to content.

money talks. (period)

praesidium
10-11-2013, 03:02 PM
i do hope this is the final hoorah for the rich with regard to time gated access to content.

money talks. (period)

agree

keroko
10-11-2013, 06:23 PM
http://youtu.be/Bs-sGvkMniI

Xtopher
10-11-2013, 07:05 PM
and i don't like to be misguided, and the only projection they said was new people every day until everyone was in, i know that was in a good-case scenario, but they never gave an impression that bad case scenario noone would be in after the all mighty 500-10k$ backers for at least a week.
I understand your frustration, but please realize there are much worse scenarios than having to wait a week. For example, right now there's a lot of problems with both players losing priority and essentially killing the game (or it could be the game freezing). If this is a server load problem that can't be easily fixed, alpha access could end for everyone and we'd be back to waiting for weeks.

Not saying that's going to happen, I think things will probably improve and everyone will get in soonish... but... it could happen and everyone should have realized months ago that a delay of this sort could be possible. I know I've been trying to point out to all the people that have been saying things like, alpha will be bug free, the game is basically finished, etc., that there's simply been no evidence for that.

So, unfortunately, if you feel misguided you misguided yourself. CZE has been very careful in their wording, for the most part.

praesidium
10-11-2013, 07:57 PM
I would kinda prefer that no kickstarters had access to alpha than higher tier being the only ones to have access for weeks, for one or two days i understand, i would even understand more time if they would say they were going to rent a new datacenter on day X but like this? just feels like they dont give a damn about lower tiers.

deathandtexas
10-11-2013, 08:02 PM
Good Lord you people. It's alpha. It just started. Just relax.

GatticusFinch
10-11-2013, 08:07 PM
i do hope this is the final hoorah for the rich with regard to time gated access to content.

money talks. (period)

I don't care that the people who spent more got in first. I spent $250, which is a lot of money for an unproven product, but I don't care that people who spent $500 got in first.

However, I do care that it was not well communicated. I don't remember ever seeing them say this was how it was going to happen.

Banquetto
10-12-2013, 03:51 AM
Guys like you are the ones that make me mad lol.

We know what an alpha is, we can handle bugs and crashes and all the downtime in the world, we just want to test the game, and to know when to expect that we can do so.

Personally i wanna test the bugs hard, for curiosity, the more bugs the merrier, because it's more stuff i can help with finding out.

You might want to look to the tone of your forum posts, then, because you're really not coming across looking like someone who can handle any irritations whatsoever. Maybe that impression is unfair, maybe you really can handle bugs and crashes and all the downtime in the world. But it's the impression your posts give.

dwebber88
10-12-2013, 05:25 AM
I would kinda prefer that no kickstarters had access to alpha than higher tier being the only ones to have access for weeks, for one or two days i understand, i would even understand more time if they would say they were going to rent a new datacenter on day X but like this? just feels like they dont give a damn about lower tiers.

This is kinda how i start feeling. I've been on for like 16 hours a day waiting for the invite. All i see is delay here, delay there and not much further information.

CZE it doesn't have to be perfect! Its alpha. ALL we want is get our own first impression. not watch streams for an entire week. Please just fix the critical issues and let us all in. In the end, maybe not all payed 10.000 dollars but i think most of us donated what they could miss.

icetech
10-12-2013, 05:30 AM
I wish they would give the cryers their money back and let them wait til release... stupid to cry about waiting a couple weeks over a game. And all that the people are waiting are missing are more bugs... i was a later donator and have no issue waiting a week or 2.. lets some bugs get worked out:)

praesidium
10-12-2013, 05:35 AM
You might want to look to the tone of your forum posts, then, because you're really not coming across looking like someone who can handle any irritations whatsoever. Maybe that impression is unfair, maybe you really can handle bugs and crashes and all the downtime in the world. But it's the impression your posts give.

I'm a game developer, i deal with bugs everyday, all day.

I Work in alphas, so if there's someone that knows how alphas work, its me.

Then again i would never promise alpha to 20k people

praesidium
10-12-2013, 05:36 AM
I wish they would give the cryers their money back and let them wait til release... stupid to cry about waiting a couple weeks over a game. And all that the people are waiting are missing are more bugs... i was a later donator and have no issue waiting a week or 2.. lets some bugs get worked out:)

I would be ok with that, let them give everyone from 250$ down their money back and make them wait until release and then i would like to see how they would keep their houses and eat and feed their children, your post makes no sense.

Mavian
10-12-2013, 05:51 AM
I would be ok with that, let them give everyone from 250$ down their money back and make them wait until release and then i would like to see how they would keep their houses and eat and feed their children, your post makes no sense.

Crypto does make other products than just Hex. They would not go hungry.

Regardless, you aren't missing anything. There's bugs abound, it's hard to finish games most the time due to priority passing not available for anyone, thus the game is stuck (and spacebar doesn't fix).

Not to mention you're not a game developer else you would have empathy on some level I believe. And they promised Alpha to everyone at some point...which will happen in the next few weeks. If you really are a game developer, you should have plenty of Alphas to work on and bugs to quash.

praesidium
10-12-2013, 06:13 AM
i want to find their bugs instead of just fixing mine for a change.

I want to see what mistakes a big team makes.

Actually for me playing their alpha is a learning experience.

Mavian
10-12-2013, 06:25 AM
And trust me, not every bug will be fixed in three weeks or even three months. If you were a game dev, this would be clear to you.

There'll be plenty since they are working on server loads and have already improved the game download server, but needed consistent data to see how many servers will be needed for peak usage...you know like a solid few days/weekend of a thousand people playing to see if the current servers are struggling.

Xtopher
10-12-2013, 06:34 AM
I wish they would give the cryers their money back and let them wait til release... stupid to cry about waiting a couple weeks over a game. And all that the people are waiting are missing are more bugs... i was a later donator and have no issue waiting a week or 2.. lets some bugs get worked out:)
That's an awesome idea. Give anyone that's unhappy their pledge back and then have a lottery for those of us that want to buy their pledges. It would take a little bit of time to set up, but well worth it.

icetech
10-12-2013, 06:36 AM
Mav, i think this is the dark side of kickstarting and giving alpha access... they should have just made it beta for below X amount or something. I have been in alot of alphas and closed betas and you should always expect delays.. the work that a dev team has to go through to fix even small problems is unreal. And all the nagging of dorks acting like impatient little children doesn't help a thing. Although i do find it amusing:) I hope they take their time.. maybe wait a few weeks and get things good and stable before inviting more people:)

praesidium
10-12-2013, 06:38 AM
And trust me, not every bug will be fixed in three weeks or even three months. If you were a game dev, this would be clear to you.

There'll be plenty since they are working on server loads and have already improved the game download server, but needed consistent data to see how many servers will be needed for peak usage...you know like a solid few days/weekend of a thousand people playing to see if the current servers are struggling.

I dont understand your insistence on saying that we, who are complaining, want a bug free alpha.

icetech
10-12-2013, 06:41 AM
I think what hes trying to get across is that you arn't missing much unless you like a long download, games crashing... and non stop problems.. which is what early alpha is

Niedar
10-12-2013, 06:41 AM
It doesn't matter if you think he isn't missing much.

praesidium
10-12-2013, 06:45 AM
cmon, check the forums, check the streams, ppl who are in are having fun. No matter the bugs and crashes and not finished games.

also, download problem is fixed.

deathandtexas
10-12-2013, 08:36 AM
I love reading these kids trying to be sly by pretending they're only upset because they want to test the game so badly. "I just want to find bugs guys, I don't care how playable the game is." Inevitably, if they were playing they would be posting long, overly dramatic, pseudo-dissertations about why Hex is going to fail because it's not F2P-enough and/or there are so many bugs and he/she is dissapointed etc... etc... same with every game.

Khazrakh
10-12-2013, 08:39 AM
I love reading these kids trying to be sly by pretending they're only upset because they want to test the game so badly. "I just want to find bugs guys, I don't care how playable the game is." Inevitably, if they were playing they would be posting long, overly dramatic, pseudo-dissertations about why Hex is going to fail because it's not F2P-enough and/or there are so many bugs and he/she is dissapointed etc... etc... same with every game.

Sad but true.
Sometime ago I really thought that this community is going to be different. I still can't believe how wrong I've been...

Vengus
10-12-2013, 08:51 AM
I love reading these kids trying to be sly by pretending they're only upset because they want to test the game so badly. "I just want to find bugs guys, I don't care how playable the game is." Inevitably, if they were playing they would be posting long, overly dramatic, pseudo-dissertations about why Hex is going to fail because it's not F2P-enough and/or there are so many bugs and he/she is dissapointed etc... etc... same with every game.
Why do you believe that the people who pledged $250 and below will behave differently than those who pledged GK and above? Those who pledged GK and above aren't complaining, what's the difference between them and those who pledged less? You're making a lot of assumptions there.

ursa23
10-12-2013, 09:03 AM
Sad but true.
Sometime ago I really thought that this community is going to be different. I still can't believe how wrong I've been...
I don't think it's right to imply that the whole community is like this. I just parsed the forums, and there's only around five vocal posters railing about alpha access. They have some lukewarm support from others, but the overwhelming majority are polite and patient.

keroko
10-12-2013, 09:13 AM
there's a number of factors I see.

frustration at being unable to play - this is exasserbated for plyers who have been on these forums for months, and are now in effect locked out of the community proper.

frustration at selection criteria for testers (most are incapable of doing anything other than playtesting and have been selected due to cash contribution - this calls into question the testing strategy of CZE and what they are really up to at this stage of the game)

deliberate poking between stratification layers of cash - tormenting each other.

a relative period of silence from CZE with regard to substantive update and progress with direct relation to their scaling problems and how they 'have worked to solve them' (not what they are planning to do, which they've decided to keep hush and is fine).

There are complaints being made at a company that tbh must infuriate the owners / management - its beyond rude to specify staffing decisions, dismantle and try to subvert moderation and free volunteers etc.

Your dealing with an org of people 50 in total assuming they're all on hex (they're not) and a butt ton of contractors I'm betting. Its got to be organizd chaos at CZE right now at best. Add to this a desire to keep costs low at this stage (they are using deliberately restricted hardware to simulate capacity breach issues, I'd bet dollars on pennies) and you have a confusing outer system surface from the enduser / backer perspective.

The community is actually quite nice, we're just in a swamp right now while some of our buddies are in a hot spa.

so until then I guess its back to writing alt flavor texts no one reads for me :)


http://youtu.be/FizJdVvdyjM

Verdant
10-12-2013, 09:18 AM
I imagine the only fair way to allocate alpha accounts was to coat Kyle in glue and launch him into pile of sheets with printed names on them, at the same time streaming live on twitch. But even then there would be people crying about how their sheets aren't sticky enough or how the glue is clearly rigged.

Maphalux
10-12-2013, 10:27 AM
I love reading these kids trying to be sly by pretending they're only upset because they want to test the game so badly. "I just want to find bugs guys, I don't care how playable the game is." Inevitably, if they were playing they would be posting long, overly dramatic, pseudo-dissertations about why Hex is going to fail because it's not F2P-enough and/or there are so many bugs and he/she is dissapointed etc... etc... same with every game.

Reminds me of the fable about the scorpion and the frog. I swear, CZE, I won't complain about the buggy alpha if you just let me in. :)

Actions speak louder than words, my friends. Behave like adults. If you can't even pass the test of patience waiting for an alpha invite, you've no hope to survive the alpha experience without raging.

Jugan
10-12-2013, 11:47 AM
I think the unfinished games are serverside issues, tbh.

wildcard
10-12-2013, 01:51 PM
Be funny if CZE ran it in reverse. $20 "Supporters" get alpha invites, and Producers that contributed $10,000 sit and wait for their invite last. No, I think CZE probably knows what its doing.

Banquetto
10-12-2013, 03:36 PM
I'm a game developer, i deal with bugs everyday, all day.

I Work in alphas, so if there's someone that knows how alphas work, its me.

Then again i would never promise alpha to 20k people

Well, we've found some common ground between us, then, because I wouldn't promise alpha to 20k people either, and I don't think it was the best idea CZE ever had. :)

Aethernaut
10-12-2013, 03:47 PM
Well, we've found some common ground between us, then, because I wouldn't promise alpha to 20k people either, and I don't think it was the best idea CZE ever had. :)

I think Cory more or less admitted that CZE already regretted how they were handling the alpha in the first few minutes of the alpha launch stream.

tautologico
10-12-2013, 05:34 PM
Many kickstarters give alpha just to the higher tiers. (one example was Planetary Annihilation: lower tiers get the game only at release, medium-level tiers got the beta, the higher tiers got alpha). HEX probably should have used this system.

praesidium
10-12-2013, 05:36 PM
Many kickstarters give alpha just to the higher tiers. (one example was Planetary Annihilation: lower tiers get the game only at release, medium-level tiers got the beta, the higher tiers got alpha). HEX probably should have used this system.

They should, but they would get so much less money, i wouldn't have backed if it was like that.

tautologico
10-12-2013, 06:02 PM
They should, but they would get so much less money, i wouldn't have backed if it was like that.

On the other hand, other people could have pledged more to get into alpha. I don't know if they would get more or less money if they restricted alpha access to higher levels, it's hard to determine now.

Kenata78
10-13-2013, 10:38 AM
Alpha was one of the last stretch goal revealed.... People who donated donated already because of other factors.......

Winterfate
10-13-2013, 03:56 PM
Well, I'll cop to having insane expectations at several more waves of invites being sent by now, and the child within me has been throwing tantrums as a result. But, I have calmed down a bit since then (and I have Pokemon X to play as well), so I guess I'll wait for as long as it takes. The game is looking awesome and I'll be happy to just be able to play it and try out some of my deck ideas. :D

gohan661
10-14-2013, 06:04 AM
There have been 10 updates in 3 days by the way...

That is really not enough

And now no updates in the last 4 days.... still enough?

ossuary
10-14-2013, 07:10 AM
And now no updates in the last 4 days.... still enough?

I suppose you spend all of your weekends in the office, constantly sending updates to your company's customers to let them know what you're working on, instead of having a life or ever seeing your family?

It's amazing you find the time to post here and be disrespectful, with a schedule like that...

jimmywolf
10-14-2013, 07:29 AM
I suppose you spend all of your weekends in the office, constantly sending updates to your company's customers to let them know what you're working on, instead of having a life or ever seeing your family?

It's amazing you find the time to post here and be disrespectful, with a schedule like that...


i don't like the Tit for tat arguments, as i tend too be the more negative type but i still feel that they could get least "one guy" too take 5 minutes out their busy real life schedule too post a random update daily, even if it not what we want hear.


least in till everyone in alpha, then a weekly update on bug fixes new info would be more understanding. the less their wiling too say too the random X player, the less worth one tends too feel.


mods an random players on these forums have been very friendly an enjoyable too read but official updates tend hold more weight when we feel were in the dark on what the current status.

Xtopher
10-14-2013, 08:39 AM
I had expectations of at least a daily update, even through the weekend, since the game just launched a few days ago. Maybe I haven't looked in the right place, but I haven't seen any acknowledgement from CZE regarding the loss of priority/gamefreeze bug (which does seem much improved now).

When Cory said the game would be updated every day, even multiple times a day, I expected there to be update notes accompanying each update.

I don't expect weekend updates moving forward, but I think it would have been appropriate this first weekend.

New week, though, new expectations. Looking forward to seeing how things develop.

GatticusFinch
10-14-2013, 08:52 AM
I suppose you spend all of your weekends in the office, constantly sending updates to your company's customers to let them know what you're working on, instead of having a life or ever seeing your family?

It's amazing you find the time to post here and be disrespectful, with a schedule like that...

Yes, I do, actually. I am at the office 24/7--it's called email and a smartphone. Let's not pretend it would take more than 30 seconds to type up a new forum post.

It would not take much to placate me. All I want are more frequent updates.

keroko
10-14-2013, 08:54 AM
I hope Cory and the other managers shut the place down past skeleton watchers at some point this weekend and took them all to see Machete kills.

If you burn out the staff you can lose them for months or a year. There are costs beyond our expectations for access to consider.

And it does not take 30s to type up an update. We're bloody rabid and would eviscerate any text pumped out like that as dismissive or generally insufficient.

They're not burning the candle at both ends, they've thrown a box of candles right onto the fire. Pressure management is something I for one would like to hear more about, and tbh study in situ.

Niedar
10-14-2013, 09:00 AM
Sorry, I expect updates and even on the weekend at the launch of an alpha that everyone is supposed to have access to but only a few actually do. Stop defending them, the communication level has been terrible so far and we really have no clue what has happened, what is going on right now, or what we can expect in the future.

keroko
10-14-2013, 09:06 AM
There has been a period of relative silence.

Perhaps CZE is aware of our desires (of course they are).

How many times do you think they can tell us they're working on similar problems, without revealing further infrastructure details, in such a manner that we're not resultantly all going to say means 'they should fire all their devs / producers / xyz?

Expectation management is a huge thing, I've only ever dealt with it on 100 million use and up fed gov contracts. Believe me those people are demanding. There are folks who do nothing but smooth the waters and predict the storms of that type.

We cannot (some specials may be able to) see the internals of the operation, or know it's challenges.

Niedar
10-14-2013, 09:09 AM
Which is not acceptable to me.

Vengus
10-14-2013, 09:17 AM
There has been a period of relative silence.

Perhaps CZE is aware of our desires (of course they are).

How many times do you think they can tell us they're working on similar problems, without revealing further infrastructure details, in such a manner that we're not resultantly all going to say means 'they should fire all their devs / producers / xyz?

Expectation management is a huge thing, I've only ever dealt with it on 100 million use and up fed gov contracts. Believe me those people are demanding. There are folks who do nothing but smooth the waters and predict the storms of that type.

We cannot (some specials may be able to) see the internals of the operation, or know it's challenges.
Nah it was just weekend, I expect we'll see an update today.


Sorry, I expect updates and even on the weekend at the launch of an alpha that everyone is supposed to have access to but only a few actually do. Stop defending them, the communication level has been terrible so far and we really have no clue what has happened, what is going on right now, or what we can expect in the future.
If this was a launch I would have agreed, but since it's only alpha I don't think CRZ should work 24/7 to fix all the issues.

Niedar
10-14-2013, 09:22 AM
They don't need to be fixing all issues, there is only one issue they should be focused on and that is getting people who are supposed to be in the alpha into the alpha. Also this is a launch.

GatticusFinch
10-14-2013, 09:28 AM
He's not asking for issues fixed, he just wants to know what is going on.

I've said this a dozen times now, so I'll just wait for the kiddies to call me an "entitled cry baby" again. I spent $250 on this game. I don't care that alpha was delayed, I don't care that I am not in yet, and I don't care that the alpha is buggy because that is the point. What I do care about is the seeming lack of care and the lack of communication to people who helped fund this product about what is going on. I do not think it is asking much that we be updated a little more often, or that the forums have professional moderation and community management.

Shadowspawn
10-14-2013, 09:31 AM
They don't need to be fixing all issues, there is only one issue they should be focused on and that is getting people who are supposed to be in the alpha into the alpha. Also this is a launch.

You are the guy who is going to complain no matter what. You will get into the Alpha when it is best for the game. They are working on this game, it is their livelihood. I am sure when there is something substantive to say/do they will let us know. Please relax and find something else to occupy your gotta have it now lifestyle.

Alpha is alpha. BTW - gameplay appears to be getting smoother everyday, so every day you wait is a day that your gameplay will be that much better when you get in.

Vengus
10-14-2013, 09:33 AM
They don't need to be fixing all issues, there is only one issue they should be focused on and that is getting people who are supposed to be in the alpha into the alpha. Also this is a launch.
The only thing I'd like to know right now is what the criteria for the release of the second wave are. It used to be "once the server is stable and capable to handle the next wave", but I am getting more and more the feeling it has become "when the bugs are fixed". There's a big difference between those two. If they just wait till everything is stable we'll probably see wave 2 this week. If they are going to wait till the bugs are fixed I wouldn't be surprised if wave 2 doesn't get in until atleast december.

Shadowspawn
10-14-2013, 09:36 AM
I don't know where the lack of communication is coming from... they communicated every day, multiple times per day all last week. They were up all night on the day before launch. Friday must have been a great day to go have a beer and chillax from the pressure of the deadlines.

GatticusFinch
10-14-2013, 09:50 AM
You are the guy who is going to complain no matter what. You will get into the Alpha when it is best for the game. They are working on this game, it is their livelihood. I am sure when there is something substantive to say/do they will let us know. Please relax and find something else to occupy your gotta have it now lifestyle.

Crypto said he would have it in September. He didn't get it and now they won't say when he will. I'd say that is as far from a "gotta have it now" lifestyle as possible. It's more like a "when am I gonna get the thing I paid for that is past-due" lifestyle.

I want to know what is going on. They asked for $300,000 via kickstarter, got $2,300,000, and now they are missing expected dates, not communicating future ones, and the forums are being run by fan volunteers. They are $2,000,000 ahead of where they thought they needed to be and it sure doesn't feel that way.

FenMiHuo
10-14-2013, 09:54 AM
Crypto said he would have it in September. He didn't get it and now they won't say when he will. I'd say that is as far from a "gotta have it now" lifestyle as possible. It's more like a "when am I gonna get the thing I paid for that is past-due" lifestyle.

I want to know what is going on. They asked for $300,000 via kickstarter, got $2,300,000, and now they are missing expected dates, not communicating future ones, and the forums are being run by fan volunteers. They are $2,000,000 ahead of where they thought they needed to be and it sure doesn't feel that way.

I know it seems like there is a lack of communication, but I have done some other kickstarters and crypto is WAY ahead of the curve compared to them. I did the Acension for tablets KS and I think there have been 2 updates total, saying just that it was in progresss. It finished before HEX. While it sucks that we are lacking updates, it could be so much worse

Niedar
10-14-2013, 09:56 AM
Yea, I don't care about any other kickstarters what I care about is this one. Just because something is less shitty doesn't mean it isn't still shit.

Mahes
10-14-2013, 10:55 AM
You can cry all you want. Pretty sure with all the current issues that it will be 2+ weeks before they introduce the next wave. They have way to much stuff to get ironed out before they feel comfortable with going the next wave.

butttoots
10-14-2013, 10:57 AM
Crypto are pretty terrible game designers, it's definitely shows it's their first rodeo. I'll guess November before Wave 2.

keroko
10-14-2013, 11:08 AM
@buttfarts

See that's just unnecessarily professionally insulting - you ever take the time to actually research some of their staff?

When's the last time anyone built a MMO tcg? Or flat up challenged mtg rules and went beyond them. Don't tell me Hearthstone, it's derivative, overpriced tripe linked to an existing IP.

butttoots
10-14-2013, 11:29 AM
@buttfarts

See that's just unnecessarily professionally insulting - you ever take the time to actually research some of their staff?

When's the last time anyone built a MMO tcg? Or flat up challenged mtg rules and went beyond them. Don't tell me Hearthstone, it's derivative, overpriced tripe linked to an existing IP.

Lol how is Hearthstone overpriced.

gohan661
10-14-2013, 11:45 AM
I suppose you spend all of your weekends in the office, constantly sending updates to your company's customers to let them know what you're working on, instead of having a life or ever seeing your family?

It's amazing you find the time to post here and be disrespectful, with a schedule like that...

I was working 14 hours on saturday... weekend is just another day.

ossuary
10-14-2013, 11:49 AM
Just because some people don't know how to keep a healthy work / life balance doesn't mean everyone else should have to suffer the same fate, sorry.

butttoots
10-14-2013, 11:53 AM
Just because some people don't know how to keep a healthy work / life balance doesn't mean everyone else should have to suffer the same fate, sorry.

Salty.

Glognar
10-14-2013, 11:59 AM
Must admit the communication this weekend has been very poor. I'm a SB and don't expect to get alpha access till at least mid-November If I'm lucky, but that doesn't mean I'm not still following the forums, streams and fansites.

The Alpha notes thread was last updated on 11/10 02:24am my time. Its now 14/10 7:56pm my time. That's nearly 3 days without an update!

The least they could have done was update on Friday saying its the weekend and we won't be posting any more updates till Monday or something, just to keep people happy/in the loop.

butttoots
10-14-2013, 12:02 PM
Must admit the communication this weekend has been very poor. I'm a SB and don't expect to get alpha access till at least mid-November If I'm lucky, but that doesn't mean I'm not still following the forums, streams and fansites.

The Alpha notes thread was last updated on 11/10 02:24am my time. Its now 14/10 7:56pm my time. That's nearly 3 days without an update!

The least they could have done was update on Friday saying its the weekend and we won't be posting any more updates till Monday or something, just to keep people happy/in the loop.

Most are counting the Kickstarter as the update for Friday, but that was just a reiteration of what had been said before.

Niedar
10-14-2013, 12:04 PM
Which is basically nothing, the content of the few updates we have received have been lackluster to begin with.

EmraldArcher
10-14-2013, 12:12 PM
I'm never disappointed when it comes to my belief that companies underestimate the value of communication.

It would take what, 15 minutes tops for someone to write an update once a day? Even if all it was was a list of the bugs they were trying to squash that day it would be something and it would quiet one of the most frequent customer complaints in ANY industry, lack of communication.

Corey could take some notes from Mark Rosewater in my opinion.

Shadowspawn
10-14-2013, 12:12 PM
I was working 14 hours on saturday... weekend is just another day.

Many of us work overtime occasionally. Crypto did their overtime on Oct 7/8 in the wee hours to try and get alpha out ASAP. I hope the weekend was a break to revitalize and get back to improving the situation.

gohan661
10-14-2013, 01:03 PM
Many of us work overtime occasionally. Crypto did their overtime on Oct 7/8 in the wee hours to try and get alpha out ASAP. I hope the weekend was a break to revitalize and get back to improving the situation.

That shift was not even over time that was a normal manager day.

Mahes
10-14-2013, 02:38 PM
I'm never disappointed when it comes to my belief that companies underestimate the value of communication.

It would take what, 15 minutes tops for someone to write an update once a day? Even if all it was was a list of the bugs they were trying to squash that day it would be something and it would quiet one of the most frequent customer complaints in ANY industry, lack of communication.

Corey could take some notes from Mark Rosewater in my opinion.

Ok, I will pretend to work for the company.

LATEST UPDATE:

We are so sorry for not having taken a moment to discuss what is going on. As you know, when we opened the first wave of Alpha we essentially got smacked down hard. We knew there would be problems but never anticipated the amount of issues we would have to face. As such, we feel confident in saying that the 2nd wave of alpha will not begin until at least mid-November. We apologize to those who feel cheated for having to wait a little longer to try the game, but feel that it is more important to actually have the game working in a fashion over just letting 20k+ people try it only to post 100's of times complaining that they cannot play the game.

P.S. Beta will start next year.

gohan661
10-14-2013, 02:54 PM
Ok, I will pretend to work for the company.

LATEST UPDATE:

We are so sorry for not having taken a moment to discuss what is going on. As you know, when we opened the first wave of Alpha we essentially got smacked down hard. We knew there would be problems but never anticipated the amount of issues we would have to face. As such, we feel confident in saying that the 2nd wave of alpha will not begin until at least mid-November. We apologize to those who feel cheated for having to wait a little longer to try the game, but feel that it is more important to actually have the game working in a fashion over just letting 20k+ people try it only to post 100's of times complaining that they cannot play the game.

P.S. Beta will start next year.

1135

Shadowspawn
10-14-2013, 02:54 PM
That shift was not even over time that was a normal manager day.

So this is your normal schedule, one that you know about every week, and you are comparing it to a group of software design/engineering professionals who are accustomed to a Monday - Friday work week? If this is your logic, I can't help you... you are doomed to be unsatisfied under almost any circumstance.

gohan661
10-14-2013, 03:00 PM
So this is your normal schedule, one that you know about every week, and you are comparing it to a group of software design/engineering professionals who are accustomed to a Monday - Friday work week? If this is your logic, I can't help you... you are doomed to be unsatisfied under almost any circumstance.

They're make an mmorpg that is going to be on around the clock but they only work mon-fri 9-5? in one time zone? by that logic it's going to fail anyway

Xtopher
10-14-2013, 03:01 PM
Just remembered it's a national holiday here in the U.S. so maybe it won't be until tomorrow that we get an update.

Falaris
10-14-2013, 03:04 PM
Alpha access is terribly overrated. Im in at Grand King, have the client downloaded and the ability to play the game. I played all of about 10 matches (finishing 2) before deciding that the game was just so unfun with the game crashing bugs I'll wait until its a bit more stable. The whiners arent missing anything.

You can't test real decks because 1/3 of the cards aren't released yet. You cant finish games due to crashes. You cant build decks easily because the deck editor isnt very good yet (again, its alpha, i understand).

Catfarmer
10-14-2013, 03:07 PM
Ye wee kiddies dun knows how easy ye gots it...

When I was yer age we had to walk eighteen miles in tha dark thru snow up to our nostrils jest to play in an Alpha!

If ye were lucky, yer Ma would tie bags of Spam around yer neck so's ye could git sum traction!

This o'course would attract the yetis...

If ye were really lucky, they would eat yer face off BEFORE they started rapin ye!

Don't git me started about tha rabid squirrels...

This generashun iz sooo soft,count yer blessins I sez.

butttoots
10-14-2013, 03:15 PM
Ye wee kiddies dun knows how easy ye gots it...

When I was yer age we had to walk eighteen miles in tha dark thru snow up to our nostrils jest to play in an Alpha!

If ye were lucky, yer Ma would tie bags of Spam around yer neck so's ye could git sum traction!

This o'course would attract the yetis...

If ye were really lucky, they would eat yer face off BEFORE they started rapin ye!

Don't git me started about tha rabid squirrels...

This generashun iz sooo soft,count yer blessins I sez.

You actually thought this was funny?

Xtopher
10-14-2013, 03:17 PM
You actually thought this was funny?

It's the second thread he's posted it in. It doesn't get funnier with repetition.

hacky
10-14-2013, 03:25 PM
Just remembered it's a national holiday here in the U.S. so maybe it won't be until tomorrow that we get an update.
Today is not a holiday for a lot of people, myself included (software engineer). I think it's mostly just schools and public services.

Shadowspawn
10-14-2013, 03:44 PM
They're make an mmorpg that is going to be on around the clock but they only work mon-fri 9-5? in one time zone? by that logic it's going to fail anyway

If you don't know the difference between designers, engineers, and support staff... I still can't help you. There are different shifts/roles, just like in your job. Right now, 24/7 customer communication is not part of the plan as it is an undeveloped Alpha product.

butttoots
10-14-2013, 03:48 PM
If you don't know the difference between designers, engineers, and support staff... I still can't help you. There are different shifts/roles, just like in your job. Right now, 24/7 customer communication is not part of the plan as it is an undeveloped Alpha product.

It should be part of the plan if you're on the hook for $2.5 million that was paid to you.

GatticusFinch
10-14-2013, 04:20 PM
If you don't know the difference between designers, engineers, and support staff... I still can't help you. There are different shifts/roles, just like in your job. Right now, 24/7 customer communication is not part of the plan as it is an undeveloped Alpha product.

24/7? We're asking for more like 0:05/three times a week.

Shadowspawn
10-14-2013, 05:21 PM
It should be part of the plan if you're on the hook for $2.5 million that was paid to you.


When you build something, you don't hire all your staff from day 1 as many of them cannot function effectively until the machine is actually built. I've realized I am arguing with people who have never managed a large project before, so I am going to quit speaking on this subject after this post.

Final thoughts - nowhere in your KS pledge does it state you are entitled to a daily update on anything. I have been mostly content with communications to date and find them regular, appropriate, and helpful at this stage in a product's development. Why is a daily (or more frequent) update now such a priority where a weekly update was fine before? Would more communication be better? Sure, I'd take it. That being said, they are actively seeking a Community Manager, and I would venture to guess communications is something they don't have as much time as they would like with present staff.

GatticusFinch
10-14-2013, 05:58 PM
Why is a daily (or more frequent) update now such a priority where a weekly update was fine before?

Because before they had not yet missed their expected alpha target and then told 95% of the people who were promised alpha access (who had no reason to think they were getting in at any time other than that day) that they (1) were not getting in and (2) could not provide any estimate of when they would be getting in.

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Whether they over-promised or not, the fact of the matter is they handled this poorly. They continuously apologized for the bugs ("the sausage being made") when they had zero reason to do so, but when 95% of people can't even get in, they offered no apology for dropping this on them at the last minute and no estimated time table. At this point, since we have not heard anything otherwise, I am just assuming the server side is a hot mess and we will not be getting in for months. If that is the case, they should just come out and say so.

They could come out tomorrow and say no one else is getting in for months, and so long as they apologized for failing to inform everyone in advance and said they would keep everyone updated regularly, I would be fine with it. Keeping stakeholders in the dark when something bad happens is the worst possible option.

jdizzle
10-14-2013, 06:03 PM
Because before they had not yet missed their expected alpha target and then told 95% of the people who were promised alpha access (who had no reason to think they were getting in at any time other than that day) that they (1) were not getting in and (2) could not provide any estimate of when they would be getting in.

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Whether they over-promised or not, the fact of the matter is they handled this poorly. They continuously apologized for the bugs ("the sausage being made") when they had zero reason to do so, but when 95% of people can't even get in, they offered no apology for dropping this on them at the last minute and no estimated time table. At this point, since we have not heard anything otherwise, I am just assuming the server side is a hot mess and we will not be getting in for months. If that is the case, they should just come out and say so.

They could come out tomorrow and say no one else is getting in for months, and so long as they apologized for failing to inform everyone in advance and said they would keep everyone updated regularly, I would be fine with it. Keeping stakeholders in the dark when something bad happens is the worst possible option.

Very well said, sir. Unfortunately, I bet this will "disappear" like a lot of similar posts I have seen lately.

So it goes.

Leingod
10-14-2013, 06:16 PM
Because before they had not yet missed their expected alpha target and then told 95% of the people who were promised alpha access (who had no reason to think they were getting in at any time other than that day) that they (1) were not getting in and (2) could not provide any estimate of when they would be getting in.

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Whether they over-promised or not, the fact of the matter is they handled this poorly. They continuously apologized for the bugs ("the sausage being made") when they had zero reason to do so, but when 95% of people can't even get in, they offered no apology for dropping this on them at the last minute and no estimated time table. At this point, since we have not heard anything otherwise, I am just assuming the server side is a hot mess and we will not be getting in for months. If that is the case, they should just come out and say so.

They could come out tomorrow and say no one else is getting in for months, and so long as they apologized for failing to inform everyone in advance and said they would keep everyone updated regularly, I would be fine with it. Keeping stakeholders in the dark when something bad happens is the worst possible option.

They informed you a while back that you may not get in immediately. They gave an example of letting more people in daily but made sure to state that everything was based on server stability. You may have skipped over that in your excitement but you should go back and reread so that you have nothing to complain about anymore.

butttoots
10-14-2013, 06:25 PM
They informed you a while back that you may not get in immediately. They gave an example of letting more people in daily but made sure to state that everything was based on server stability. You may have skipped over that in your excitement but you should go back and reread so that you have nothing to complain about anymore.

Man, classical white knighting. Cory isn't gunna climb in bed and give you a good tug before you go to bed, so no need to keep that hope up.

Callahan420
10-14-2013, 06:36 PM
Here is an update
Posted by Shaqattaq in Alpha Notes
10/14 - 5:44 PM

"Hey all. We collected a ton of great data from you all this weekend and through that we discovered four bugs that were causing stability problems, the "Pass Priority" button disappearing, and the "this user is already logged in" error. So, that's great. We're testing fixes over the next day to see if our proposed fixes solve the problems at hand. Thank you for all your help in that and we'll have another update tomorrow should we make some progress on that front. "

jimmywolf
10-14-2013, 06:38 PM
Here is an update
Posted by Shaqattaq in Alpha Notes
10/14 - 5:44 PM

"Hey all. We collected a ton of great data from you all this weekend and through that we discovered four bugs that were causing stability problems, the "Pass Priority" button disappearing, and the "this user is already logged in" error. So, that's great. We're testing fixes over the next day to see if our proposed fixes solve the problems at hand. Thank you for all your help in that and we'll have another update tomorrow should we make some progress on that front. "

thank you for sharing this, much appreciated.

MoikPEI
10-14-2013, 06:42 PM
Swag.

GatticusFinch
10-14-2013, 06:50 PM
They informed you a while back that you may not get in immediately. They gave an example of letting more people in daily but made sure to state that everything was based on server stability. You may have skipped over that in your excitement but you should go back and reread so that you have nothing to complain about anymore.

Bullshit.

Update 47 to Kickstarter on September 20, 2013 was the first time they mentioned the new alpha target and the first time they mentioned that players would have to trickle in, and they never said anything about how it was going to be GK+ only. That's not "a while back," that's immediately before the beta was supposed to be launching.


As to the roll out, clearly we cannot simple dump the entire base into an untested server platform; players will have to trickle in. My hope is we do relatively small batches the first couple of days and based on that info we throttle it as high as we can reasonably go to get everyone in as quickly as possible. As an example: if we let in 500 people day one, 1000 day two, and the server is handling it no problem, we could go 5000 day three and the rest day four, but this is all based on server performance.... Next week, you can expect some information on the alpha sign-up process as we're able to finalize that...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/605035

Update 46 right before it says nothing about letting only GK+ in, and says that alpha will hit in September:


We're quickly coming up on the end of September, and you know what that means: Alpha! We'll have everything you need to know about alpha in next week's update, but I can share this: there's no NDA; you all can stream your games of HEX publicly. In fact, we would love it if you would! The more, the merrier, and we want this game to continue to grow.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/598328

This is from Update 45:


We're coming close on the alpha release of HEX, and we're going to stream that alpha version right before we send it all to you. We'll announce that date soon, as well as all the information you'll need to participate in the alpha of HEX.

In response to a question in the update comments about who all would be getting into alpha: "@Bryan: Anyone in the KS and PayPal Slacker Backers. You'll be all set," might have been a good time to mention otherwise.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/591378

Update 42:


""Hi HEXers. If you watched the Twitch stream last week, you heard that Cory confirmed alpha at the end of September. So, you'll have the alpha version of HEX in your hands in just a few weeks.""

Originally, the beta was supposed to be in September.

I could keep doing this. Even in the kickstarter update when the beta was delayed, they never actually acknowledged it was delayed, instead saying they hit their "internal alpha milestone" of September 30. They got $2,000,000 more than they needed, but it sure doesn't feel that way.

Once again, they bungled this and are not talking about it, at all. All they need to do is come out and say they bungled it.

butttoots
10-14-2013, 06:59 PM
Bullshit.

Update 47 to Kickstarter on September 20, 2013 was the first time they mentioned the new alpha target and the first time they mentioned that players would have to trickle in, and they never said anything about how it was going to be GK+ only. That's not "a while back," that's immediately before the beta was supposed to be launching.



http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/605035

Update 46 right before it says nothing about letting only GK+ in, and says that alpha will hit in September:



http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/598328

This is from Update 45:



In response to a question in the update comments about who all would be getting into alpha: "@Bryan: Anyone in the KS and PayPal Slacker Backers. You'll be all set," might have been a good time to mention otherwise.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts/591378

Update 42:



Originally, the beta was supposed to be in September.

I could keep doing this. Even in the kickstarter update when the beta was delayed, they never actually acknowledged it was delayed, instead saying they hit their "internal alpha milestone" of September 30. They got $2,000,000 more than they needed, but it sure doesn't feel that way.

Once again, they bungled this and are not talking about it, at all. All they need to do is come out and say they bungled it.

You are my hero. Keep spreading the gospel

MoikPEI
10-14-2013, 07:03 PM
I dunno... if posts like that are what they're gonna get for talking to us, why invest the time in writing?
All they need to do is come out and say then bungled it and then... you give them candy?

GatticusFinch
10-14-2013, 07:06 PM
I dunno... if posts like that are what they're gonna get for talking to us, why invest the time in writing?
All they need to do is come out and say then bungled it and then... you give them candy?

And then I accept their apology and wait to hear when the rest of us are getting in. That's all people want. They don't want to be kept in the dark and have things dropped on them at last minute. This is a kickstarter, not a pre-order. We deserve better communication than what we have been receiving.

Soth
10-14-2013, 07:06 PM
Bullshit.

Update 47 to Kickstarter on September 20, 2013

Ahh paragraph 3 of update 47 line 23 subsection 14? We have a lawyer in the thread, look out.

The truth of the matter is people knew alpha started oct. 8 and expected to get in fairly soon afterwards. Looking at the streams of the game, it is evident the servers are not ready for more load, and can barely handle what they have now. I don't expect wave number two to come any time soon, and wave three will probably be even further off.

The nerd rage will continue to build as each day passes and eventually reach a cresendo pitch. When I bought the slack back it was after reading the 'best case scenario' they posted about. Sadly it doesnt look like the servers are even close to ready for more traffic, so we are much closer to a worst case scenario than to a best case one.

GatticusFinch
10-14-2013, 07:10 PM
Ahh paragraph 3 of update 47 line 23 subsection 14? We have a lawyer in the thread, look out.

Correct.




The truth of the matter is people knew alpha started oct. 8 and expected to get in fairly soon afterwards. Looking at the streams of the game, it is evident the servers are not ready for more load, and can barely handle what they have now. I don't expect wave number two to come any time soon, and wave three will probably be even further off.

The nerd rage will continue to build as each day passes and eventually reach a cresendo pitch. When I bought the slack back it was after reading the 'best case scenario' they posted about. Sadly it doesnt look like the servers are even close to ready for more traffic, so we are much closer to a worst case scenario than to a best case one.

I agree. All the more reason for them to start keeping us informed and people would not be nearly as mad. Maybe they don't even read these forums, which is a good possibility since there is no community moderator in their employ, but they really do owe us an explanation.

Nicalapegus
10-14-2013, 07:17 PM
The issue is the people calling out CZE's missteps are coming off as hostile, rage filled nerds-While the people defending CZE are defending a company which has handled the launch of a promised Alpha very terribly.

This is very simple. We paid for services for which we haven't received. You wouldn't let this stand in an Auto Repair shop, or any other business. Which... CZE is.

Frankly the lack of updates is beyond despicable. Hiring a "Community Manager" should have occurred immediately when they reached their Kickstarter. And you can talk about the "Mythic Man Month" all you want... fact is manpower helps. Hire more coders to fix bugs, to optimize. Hire more designers that can playtest and bug report. The client looks the same as the first video about Hex... little to nothing has been changed since its "Pre-Alpha" state.

And beyond that-Why are you defending this company when they have said little to nothing about development aside from the briefest of developments? Those of us upset are upset for the right reasons. We too are passionate about this game and want to see it succeed. Don't attempt to discredit our concerns; they are valid.

Nicalapegus
10-14-2013, 07:18 PM
Also I find it amazing that we were promised Alpha with 4 copies of every card... and then we are handed a "Spoiler" which is really a work in progress. How were these cards not implemented? Or at the very least spoiled? Have they not finished designing their set yet? Given the state of things I don't foresee Hex retail launch until Easter.

Leingod
10-14-2013, 07:48 PM
You are my hero. Keep spreading the gospel

Man, classical white knighting. Gatticus isn't gunna climb in bed and give you a good tug before you go to bed, so no need to keep that hope up.

As for Gatticus, it's right there in the first update quote: "but this is all based on server performance." Hell, they even let in more people day 1 than they said they would.

MoikPEI
10-14-2013, 07:56 PM
I thought that line was funny when butttoots used it. But that sudden reversal is hilarious.
The forums have passed toxicity into some glorious new form of interaction not yet known to the internet.

Nicalapegus
10-14-2013, 08:02 PM
Yes because us CUSTOMERS who PAID for Alpha access... and who haven't gotten it yet... we are COMPLETELY out of line here. You two are as bad as you think the others are.

Leingod
10-14-2013, 08:04 PM
Well, sometimes trolls like butttoots need a little fight fire with fire.

Gatticus has a legitimate concern with wanting more communication at and actually makes decent posts. There is some recent feedback on twitter, though it's mostly about some bugs rather than access. I do think his complaints about alpha access getting delayed for some people is a bit unfounded given they stated they wouldn't be able to shove everyone in on day 1 and that waves beyond the first would be based on server stability. If the problem is with WHO they let in first, than it's really irrelevant since no matter who they let in they would have people left out till better stability.


Yes because us CUSTOMERS who PAID for Alpha access... and who haven't gotten it yet... we are COMPLETELY out of line here. You two are as bad as you think the others are.

Technically, it's not like alpha has ended without you getting the access you paid for. Though obviously I think that would be ridiculous to wait that long to complain, especially as a KS rather than an SB (since SB is also technically a donation). What I think is equally ridiculous though is complaining about 20k people not getting in 3-4 days into alpha when alpha/beta processes take a long time. Heck, many games seem to stay in alpha/beta state for a year+ now. (eg things like Wildstar, DOTA2, and Smite)

Aradon
10-14-2013, 08:06 PM
When you don't get your alpha access, then you can complain. That won't be apparent until they move to beta. Until then, CZE is still keeping their end of the bargain, and doing their best to satisfy the internet. The poor souls.

Edit: this was directed at people commenting on not receiving what they paid for.

butttoots
10-14-2013, 08:09 PM
Well, sometimes trolls like butttoots need a little fight fire with fire.

Gatticus has a legitimate concern with wanting more communication at and actually makes decent posts. There is some recent feedback on twitter, though it's mostly about some bugs rather than access. I do think his complaints about alpha access getting delayed for some people is a bit unfounded given they stated they wouldn't be able to shove everyone in on day 1 and that waves beyond the first would be based on server stability. If the problem is with WHO they let in first, than it's really irrelevant since no matter who they let in they would have people left out till better stability.

I'm no troll. I'm just a truth spitter whose posts get deleted because the mods can't handle my realness.

Ebynfel
10-14-2013, 08:26 PM
In the words of Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks: "Can't we all just get along?"

Seriously, though, I have been avoiding these threads as much as I can. I do find some humor in it. But neither side is 100% right or wrong. It's a matter of semantics, language, and expectations, all of which take great care to be expressed in both the positive and the negative. Would more communication be nice? Sure. Was the best case for alpha reached? Hells no. Has there been disclaimers? Sure. Were they worded perfectly or at what seems to be an appropriate time? No. Is all this the fault of anyone in particular? Probably, but what more does it matter at the moment?

I'm not saying to not complain or defend, but in all honesty what does it do to improve the situation at the moment, in either case? Do you believe that CZE just isn't working on the problem? And do the "White Knighters" believe that there is no wrong that can be done? of course not, it's preposterous to believe that nothing is being worked on, and that a company filled with human beings cannot make error.

But I digress, as someone who is not in. As someone who pledged day 1 of the kickstarter. I would love to be in alpha. I also would like the server to be ready for me when I get there. So, after this little post I'll go back to sitting idly by but just ask, as nicely as I can, that the conversations stay civil. I've read all 15 pages of this up until now, and in very few places did it get out of hand, if any. I think that speaks wonders for the people both in the alpha and those of us waiting to get to it. This community is going to have a lot of differing points of view. We're all different, we all see things differently, and we all have our own opinions. If this is the worst chafing this community gets, it wont be too bad a place, I think.

keldrin
10-14-2013, 08:41 PM
Well, I really have little to add to a 15 page thread.
But will anyways.
At this point, considering the server issues, additional people will likely contribute to further problems. The server situation is being improved, based on what the people in alpha are saying. When server issues, seem to be more or less under control, I expect them to get serious about letting more people in.
From my observation, I think they should do add-ins at about 500 people at a time, give a couple of days, to see how things are going, then add 500 more. Adding large numbers, and over loading the servers, isn't helping anyone.
I know, that line of thought won't be popular. But might prevent major issues from happening due to a sudden influx of new players.
As for the I'm owed. He got line of thought. I really don't know how it could have been done fairer. A lottery for entry wouldn't be fair either.
I mean, there's always Gwaer's suggestion of letting people in based on who got the longest awkward hug from Cory. But that's not fair to the people who don't shower. :rolleyes:

GatticusFinch
10-14-2013, 09:54 PM
Well, sometimes trolls like butttoots need a little fight fire with fire.

Gatticus has a legitimate concern with wanting more communication at and actually makes decent posts. There is some recent feedback on twitter, though it's mostly about some bugs rather than access. I do think his complaints about alpha access getting delayed for some people is a bit unfounded given they stated they wouldn't be able to shove everyone in on day 1 and that waves beyond the first would be based on server stability. If the problem is with WHO they let in first, than it's really irrelevant since no matter who they let in they would have people left out till better stability.



Technically, it's not like alpha has ended without you getting the access you paid for. Though obviously I think that would be ridiculous to wait that long to complain, especially as a KS rather than an SB (since SB is also technically a donation). What I think is equally ridiculous though is complaining about 20k people not getting in 3-4 days into alpha when alpha/beta processes take a long time. Heck, many games seem to stay in alpha/beta state for a year+ now. (eg things like Wildstar, DOTA2, and Smite)

Let me clear this part up--I don't really care about the delay. I thought it was overly ambitious, but they continually said it was not (let's not forget we are actually in the beta/release window that was originally stated) so I started to believe it, as everyone else did.

What I do care about is the way the delay was communicated and that they flat out used an example where everyone was in the alpha in 3 days, without so much as an "oops" now. I care about not having a community manager. I care about them not acknowledging that they blew the alpha deadline, the beta deadline, the release deadline, etc., with no explanation of what they are actually doing. They pumped this thing up as if it was going to be in beta in September and be in release soon thereafter, and all we see is evidence to the contrary but no statements about what is really happening other than fixing some minor handful of bugs on just a portion of the game with just a portion of that parts assets in place.

I'm no workaholic, I'm not asking CZE to kill themselves to make deadlines, but when I hear nothing about what is going on other than delays, last-minute changes to alpha access, statements about how they "achieved their goal" of an internal alpha by September 30 when beta was supposed to launch in September, and then see them having a "puppy party" (which I didn't realize was even an actual thing) with the money we pledged, I start to question why I pledged in the first place.

Imagine if, instead of kickstarter, a private investor gave them $2.3 million to finish this game, with the deadlines they had set initially. Do you think that person would be getting updates? Do you think that person would look kindly on the "puppy party" when every single milestone has seemingly been blown?

This is the problem with kickstarter sometimes--we're being treated like pre-orderers, not people who funded the development. That's what I feel like: someone who is just holding a $250 pre-order card for the next "when it's ready" game, not knowing when that will be. In actuality, it was CZE who came asking for our money, and they got it.

Before they got our money, Cory gave us his fucking phone number! We could call THE MAN and ask him questions! Now they have our money, and we get an occasional bug update, a kickstarter update once a week, and "fanboys" moderating the official forums. That is indefensible for $2.3 million. We deserve better.

Leingod
10-14-2013, 10:52 PM
I suppose I can see that, but I think that is more a reason hard dates should never be given out for development of stuff really. I think literally every time I've seen a hard date given out for something it gets pushed back and there is outrage on forums in any game. Would more info be nice? Sure. I guess they could just hire the first guy to apply for the community rep position just to say "we have one and are using that money don't worry" but I'd rather get somebody good for the job.

An apology for the delays with alpha/beta, even though it happens to every game ever made, would be nice. Especially since they did not say anything to that effect during the recent updates.

To be fair though, I imagine they have a lot more work to do now that they actually have it funded rather than before they knew if the game could even be made. Maybe the lawyer guy could double as community manager till they find somebody they feel is satisfactory. Puppy party was for sure dumb though lol.

Niedar
10-14-2013, 10:54 PM
Arguments of having a lot of work to do are just plain stupid, keeping us informed is apart of the work that needs to be done.

Jeronan
10-14-2013, 11:39 PM
Let me clear this part up--I don't really care about the delay. I thought it was overly ambitious, but they continually said it was not (let's not forget we are actually in the beta/release window that was originally stated) so I started to believe it, as everyone else did.

What I do care about is the way the delay was communicated and that they flat out used an example where everyone was in the alpha in 3 days, without so much as an "oops" now. I care about not having a community manager. I care about them not acknowledging that they blew the alpha deadline, the beta deadline, the release deadline, etc., with no explanation of what they are actually doing. They pumped this thing up as if it was going to be in beta in September and be in release soon thereafter, and all we see is evidence to the contrary but no statements about what is really happening other than fixing some minor handful of bugs on just a portion of the game with just a portion of that parts assets in place.

I'm no workaholic, I'm not asking CZE to kill themselves to make deadlines, but when I hear nothing about what is going on other than delays, last-minute changes to alpha access, statements about how they "achieved their goal" of an internal alpha by September 30 when beta was supposed to launch in September, and then see them having a "puppy party" (which I didn't realize was even an actual thing) with the money we pledged, I start to question why I pledged in the first place.

Imagine if, instead of kickstarter, a private investor gave them $2.3 million to finish this game, with the deadlines they had set initially. Do you think that person would be getting updates? Do you think that person would look kindly on the "puppy party" when every single milestone has seemingly been blown?

This is the problem with kickstarter sometimes--we're being treated like pre-orderers, not people who funded the development. That's what I feel like: someone who is just holding a $250 pre-order card for the next "when it's ready" game, not knowing when that will be. In actuality, it was CZE who came asking for our money, and they got it.

Before they got our money, Cory gave us his fucking phone number! We could call THE MAN and ask him questions! Now they have our money, and we get an occasional bug update, a kickstarter update once a week, and "fanboys" moderating the official forums. That is indefensible for $2.3 million. We deserve better.

Well said! Couldnīt have said it any better myself!

Havok4615
10-14-2013, 11:45 PM
This unprofessional behavior makes the whole thing 100 times more worse than it would be with daily updates. Seriously dont let the ppl think u are scamming them. If u say, alpha will be at early December its not bad. But dont hide!

Nicalapegus
10-15-2013, 12:08 AM
When you don't get your alpha access, then you can complain. That won't be apparent until they move to beta. Until then, CZE is still keeping their end of the bargain, and doing their best to satisfy the internet. The poor souls.

Edit: this was directed at people commenting on not receiving what they paid for.

Sorry you don't get to tell me when I "get to complain."

We all paid for this, we aren't getting it, this is justifiable anger. Being condescending and defending a company which has messed up on its launches (promsied beta in September, then Alpha in September, then no wait, it's October, then no wait, it's not full PVP yet we are STILL implementing cards)

For a company who was handed 2.3 million of OUR dollars, this is unacceptable.

CZE still keeping their end of the bargain? Do you have any clue what you're talking about? No, you don't.

Jeronan
10-15-2013, 12:16 AM
This unprofessional behavior makes the whole thing 100 times more worse than it would be with daily updates. Seriously dont let the ppl think u are scamming them. If u say, alpha will be at early December its not bad. But dont hide!

Thatīs the Whole point we try to make. Their communication has sunk to an all time low and is downright unprofessional.
Just because they got the Money via Kickstarter, doesnīt mean they can do what they want.

When you make and continue to make hard promisses and keep failing to meet them, without explanation. Itīs going to invoke anger and distrust. Period!

When they said they would try to get everyone in, in a matter of days and then shut the door in Our faces, when they send out the first wave (tiny amount of People)! and now only give some small bug fix updates.

That is just downright insulting! No matter how you put it.

nicosharp
10-15-2013, 12:24 AM
They are facing a lot of challenges right now with a very premature product. If you can even call it a product at this point. I am sure CZE is slapping themselves right now for promising Alpha as a stretch goal.

As a company, specially a video game company, although complete transparency is demanded by the community, they need to be very careful about what they say, and when they say it. Especially if it means making additional promises or deadlines (which is what is basically being demanded), when there is no concept of how long it would take to complete or how difficult those promises would be.

We are still getting small alpha updates almost everyday Monday-Friday. Which is pretty significant, and CZE is active with the GK+ backers in the game, trying their best to communicate there. Try to be a little patient. What is making you angry, is making them 10x more frustrated. Not because you are angry, but because they were hoping to be so much further ahead right now, and are letting a lot of people down regarding their prior estimations.

Also, the game is super fun. You guys will enjoy it when you can play, but may be even happier to play it after some of the numerous posted bugs are hammered out.. Specifically the priority window bug, which happens often. Many of us have been waiting since June to play Hex. It's been a long ass wait. As far as gaming kickstarters go, this turn-around time is a lot faster than many backed projects.

Jeronan
10-15-2013, 12:31 AM
They are facing a lot of challenges right now with a very premature product. If you can even call it a product at this point. I am sure CZE is slapping themselves right now for promising Alpha as a stretch goal.

As a company, specially a video game company, although complete transparency is demanded by the community, they need to be very careful about what they say, and when they say it. Especially if it means making additional promises or deadlines (which is what is basically being demanded), when there is no concept of how long it would take to complete or how difficult those promises would be.

We are still getting small alpha updates almost everyday Monday-Friday. Which is pretty significant, and CZE is active with the GK+ backers in the game, trying their best to communicate there. Try to be a little patient. What is making you angry, is making them 10x more frustrated. Not because you are angry, but because they were hoping to be so much further ahead right now, and are letting a lot of people down regarding their prior estimations.

Itīs too late for them to start backing out on the Alpha Access deal. Or they gonna be facing a lot of refund requests and run out of Money before they even make it to beta.

The point is, that they communication is shoddy! The issues so far I have seen being reported, are typical Alpha bugs and issues and nothing Points to a reason why they havenīt send out at least another wave or prevent them from communicating to us why they donīt send out more Waves?

So far I see People playing like mad and having a good time With the current build and current available Cards!

So whatīs going on? For real! Bugs is not an excuse! Thatīs what Alpha is for. They gonna be tons of bugs.

nicosharp
10-15-2013, 12:39 AM
Itīs too late for them to start backing out on the Alpha Access deal. Or they gonna be facing a lot of refund requests and run out of Money before they even make it to beta.

The point is, that they communication is shoddy! The issues so far I have seen being reported, are typical Alpha bugs and issues and nothing Points to a reason why they havenīt send out at least another wave or prevent them from communicating to us why they donīt send out more Waves?

So far I see People playing like mad and having a good time With the current build and current available Cards!

So whatīs going on? For real! Bugs is not an excuse! Thatīs what Alpha is for. They gonna be tons of bugs.

What you are seeing now is about 20% of the active alpha community all trying to actively stream the game. Perhaps you heard of the 12+ hour installs for many of us. Maybe you haven't heard of the many client game server crashes or sync issues, causing opponents to disappear. So much is going on right now that things need to be fixed everywhere.

I am guessing their entire team is working on stomping out bugs, and might even create new ones as they are doing it. It can take a long time to even make a dent in progress, and is most likely the reason no one is hearing any concrete progress, because they need to be sure it is progress first before they open a new can of worms. I wish everyone that backed could play now, as I want everyone to have the alpha experience, but let them fix their shiz before we FUBAR it even more with 30k people.

Jeronan
10-15-2013, 12:48 AM
What you are seeing now is about 20% of the active alpha community all trying to actively stream the game. Perhaps you heard of the 12+ hour installs for many of us. Maybe you haven't heard of the many client game server crashes or sync issues, causing opponents to disappear. So much is going on right now that things need to be fixed everywhere.

I am guessing their entire team is working on stomping out bugs, and might even create new ones as they are doing it. It can take a long time to even make a dent in progress, and is most likely the reason no one is hearing any concrete progress, because they need to be sure it is progress first before they open a new can of worms. I wish everyone that backed could play now, as I want everyone to have the alpha experience, but let them fix their shiz before we FUBAR it even more with 30k people.

The 12+ hours downloads was fixed within a day and was a pure network capacity issue. People put up a torrent even and you could get the entire Client within 15 mins a day later.

When I see multiple topics on the Alpha Discussion forums about an OP card / deck dominating the discussion atm, then I see no reason why they canīt send out more Waves.

Trust me! I have been in a ton of betas and if Things were as bad as you are making it out to be, there would be entirely different discussions going on right now on the Alpha discussion forum.
And I donīt see continious crashes in the Alpha stream either. Sure some bugs and issues. But itīs Alpha after all!

What I do see however, and others have already pointed it out, is a sense of elitism from People currently in from the first wave and desperately trying to prevent more People being invited, so they can get an edge over everyone else.
People that already seem to be running their own agenda. In a frigginīAlpha! And itīs disgusting!

nicosharp
10-15-2013, 12:56 AM
I can't deny that I don't see a bit of the own agenda thing.. People using it to also build stream viewer bases.
However, the only reason why people are not ripping on the game/client etc. on the alpha server is that most of those issues have already been addressed, and CZE has mentioned they are working on them.

My guess is- they want to stagnate the invites going forward, and are trying to develop a fair process to do so for the rest of the backers, and also they want to have an updated client to push out to everyone when they do this '2nd wave'. The game is totally playable. I just have 0 firsthand knowledge of what the server can really handle at this point. Its shoddy at best.

praesidium
10-15-2013, 12:57 AM
Let me clear this part up--I don't really care about the delay. I thought it was overly ambitious, but they continually said it was not (let's not forget we are actually in the beta/release window that was originally stated) so I started to believe it, as everyone else did.

What I do care about is the way the delay was communicated and that they flat out used an example where everyone was in the alpha in 3 days, without so much as an "oops" now. I care about not having a community manager. I care about them not acknowledging that they blew the alpha deadline, the beta deadline, the release deadline, etc., with no explanation of what they are actually doing. They pumped this thing up as if it was going to be in beta in September and be in release soon thereafter, and all we see is evidence to the contrary but no statements about what is really happening other than fixing some minor handful of bugs on just a portion of the game with just a portion of that parts assets in place.

I'm no workaholic, I'm not asking CZE to kill themselves to make deadlines, but when I hear nothing about what is going on other than delays, last-minute changes to alpha access, statements about how they "achieved their goal" of an internal alpha by September 30 when beta was supposed to launch in September, and then see them having a "puppy party" (which I didn't realize was even an actual thing) with the money we pledged, I start to question why I pledged in the first place.

Imagine if, instead of kickstarter, a private investor gave them $2.3 million to finish this game, with the deadlines they had set initially. Do you think that person would be getting updates? Do you think that person would look kindly on the "puppy party" when every single milestone has seemingly been blown?

This is the problem with kickstarter sometimes--we're being treated like pre-orderers, not people who funded the development. That's what I feel like: someone who is just holding a $250 pre-order card for the next "when it's ready" game, not knowing when that will be. In actuality, it was CZE who came asking for our money, and they got it.

Before they got our money, Cory gave us his fucking phone number! We could call THE MAN and ask him questions! Now they have our money, and we get an occasional bug update, a kickstarter update once a week, and "fanboys" moderating the official forums. That is indefensible for $2.3 million. We deserve better.

this post says it all, i mean, almost all, dont forget slacker backers, its more than $2.3millions

Vengus
10-15-2013, 02:13 AM
What I do see however, and others have already pointed it out, is a sense of elitism from People currently in from the first wave and desperately trying to prevent more People being invited, so they can get an edge over everyone else.
People that already seem to be running their own agenda. In a frigginīAlpha! And itīs disgusting!
I agree with you here, I already noticed this days ago. I call it the special snowflake syndrome. Basically people who believe that because they were given special treatment they are special people, and now they look down upon anyone who isn't at their level. They actively try to keep people out so that they have major advantages in deck building and twitch streaming. (Thanks Nicosharp for pointing out the twitch streaming advantages). It's sad to see such a big community divide so early on, and I am sure it's going to have major ramifications later on. Just look at the endless fights between "casuals" and "hardcores" on various WoW forums and other game forums.


I also agree with the people wondering what happened to all the money that was pledged. They made over 7 times more money than they needed and all they got for it so far was a new office.

Jeronan
10-15-2013, 03:01 AM
I agree with you here, I already noticed this days ago. I call it the special snowflake syndrome. Basically people who believe that because they were given special treatment they are special people, and now they look down upon anyone who isn't at their level. They actively try to keep people out so that they have major advantages in deck building and twitch streaming. (Thanks Nicosharp for pointing out the twitch streaming advantages). It's sad to see such a big community divide so early on, and I am sure it's going to have major ramifications later on. Just look at the endless fights between "casuals" and "hardcores" on various WoW forums and other game forums.


I also agree with the people wondering what happened to all the money that was pledged. They made over 7 times more money than they needed and all they got for it so far was a new office.

The worst is, that CZE is feeding into it and seems totally fine With it. This worries me far more, than the delay of further invites.

I have plenty of other fun games to play atm (TSW, EQ2), so I donīt mind Things being delayed.
Itīs just how this Whole situation is being handled, that gives me a serious bad taste in my mouth and ultimately, if things arenīt improving any time soon, reconsidering my done investment.

Vengus
10-15-2013, 03:30 AM
The worst is, that CZE is feeding into it and seems totally fine With it. This worries me far more, than the delay of further invites.

I have plenty of other fun games to play atm (TSW, EQ2), so I donīt mind Things being delayed.
Itīs just how this Whole situation is being handled, that gives me a serious bad taste in my mouth and ultimately, if things arenīt improving any time soon, reconsidering my done investment.
I don't think CRZ has much to do with how players behave unless they actually give them what they want and make it GK+ exclusive.

Xtopher
10-15-2013, 04:29 AM
Itīs too late for them to start backing out on the Alpha Access deal. Or they gonna be facing a lot of refund requests and run out of Money before they even make it to beta.

The point is, that they communication is shoddy! The issues so far I have seen being reported, are typical Alpha bugs and issues and nothing Points to a reason why they havenīt send out at least another wave or prevent them from communicating to us why they donīt send out more Waves?

So far I see People playing like mad and having a good time With the current build and current available Cards!

So whatīs going on? For real! Bugs is not an excuse! Thatīs what Alpha is for. They gonna be tons of bugs.
Feel free to come to me with "refund requests". I'd love some more tiers.

MoikPEI
10-15-2013, 05:32 AM
Not all people in the alpha are trying to exclude others. TUC has internal "first to X" contests on hold pending the final invites. There are people in the alpha just as antsy for others to get in as those who are just watching.

Blowfeld
10-15-2013, 06:31 AM
When I read this topic I start to believe that a.) I start to like this community less and b.) a lot of people here complaining about access to alpha and that they feel scammed are just immature, impatient and have no clue about what they are talking about.

I will not tell you not to complain anymore, but customers become a real terror on the internet.
"THEY PROMISED ME THIS" "THEY DO NOT COMMUNICATE ANYTHING" "THEY SCAM US BUT I WILL TAKE BACK MY MONEY"

Shooosh, go on, but all I read are factoids gathered by you people by taking what crypto said out of context, qouting them wrongly and you own expectations "how things have to be".

I think Hex will be fine without you guys anyway and we all know, once it is open beta you will return anyway :D

Blowfeld
10-15-2013, 06:31 AM
Feel free to come to me with "refund requests". I'd love some more tiers.

This :D

jdizzle
10-15-2013, 07:41 AM
I agree with you here, I already noticed this days ago. I call it the special snowflake syndrome. Basically people who believe that because they were given special treatment they are special people, and now they look down upon anyone who isn't at their level. They actively try to keep people out so that they have major advantages in deck building and twitch streaming. (Thanks Nicosharp for pointing out the twitch streaming advantages). It's sad to see such a big community divide so early on, and I am sure it's going to have major ramifications later on. Just look at the endless fights between "casuals" and "hardcores" on various WoW forums and other game forums.


I also agree with the people wondering what happened to all the money that was pledged. They made over 7 times more money than they needed and all they got for it so far was a new office.

It's almost like the tiered kickstarter system has now turned into a class system because of the way they have done Alpha. That's what is dividing the community IMO between the "Haves" and "Have Nots"

Niedar
10-15-2013, 07:45 AM
When I read this topic I start to believe that a.) I start to like this community less and b.) a lot of people here complaining about access to alpha and that they feel scammed are just immature, impatient and have no clue about what they are talking about.

I will not tell you not to complain anymore, but customers become a real terror on the internet.
"THEY PROMISED ME THIS" "THEY DO NOT COMMUNICATE ANYTHING" "THEY SCAM US BUT I WILL TAKE BACK MY MONEY"

Shooosh, go on, but all I read are factoids gathered by you people by taking what crypto said out of context, qouting them wrongly and you own expectations "how things have to be".

I think Hex will be fine without you guys anyway and we all know, once it is open beta you will return anyway :D

Looks like you did not read the thread then but nice try.

MoikPEI
10-15-2013, 07:48 AM
I feel it's kind of exaggerated to say the community is divided between the haves and the have-nots.
There are a lot of have-nots on the side of pacing the invite waves, and haves on the side of unleashing the invites kraken.
I feel it may be more accurate to say the community is divided between the abiding and the non-abiding.

jtatta
10-15-2013, 07:59 AM
I'm almost out of popcorn so I'll finally respond to this thread.

First of all, CZE screwed themselves by supplying an alpha "release date." When they were forced to push it back (not far enough in my opinion) people got very uneasy. This, on the backs of them losing the World of Warcraft TCG license, was absolutely a big blow to the company as a whole. Look, I've been involved with CZE since they picked up the World of Warcraft card game and have been faithful to them. That said, they have some .... issues .... when it comes to actually running the company. I love everyone who works there, they're all great people to be around and I've known many of them for several years now. People are giving them all kinds of shit and while they do deserve it (to a certain extent) we as a community need to back off a bit.

I'll say it again. We need to back off a bit.

I've been playing in the alpha but I'll still keep it real. Simply put, the game is not ready to open the gates for another thousand people. Or even X arbitrary number of people. On Saturday night during peak time for the US the game was absolutely unplayable. I know that they're working on those issues and hope that they get them fixed. For those who are crying wolf, just relax. You'll get into the game when it's stable to play. There's absolutely no point in you having alpha access if you can't even get past the coin flip of a game.

The game looks really good. They have a long way to go and when it's done it's going to be one of the best looking games on the market. Just getting to that point is going to be a lot of work and everyone complaining every five minutes is certainly not helping. They're doing the absolute best that they can. This is a TCG company making a digital game. The end.

/endrant

jdizzle
10-15-2013, 08:08 AM
@jtatta So you think the game has progressed a lot? I can only see what's on the streams, but to me it didn't look like they have done very much since the first videos we have seen in the Kickstarter, which honestly has concerned me a lot more than not having Alpha access. Just interested in getting your opinion, you would probably know better since you can actually play it.

As for the things you said about the company, now I am even more concerned. Not sure if you were trying to help them or hurt them by including that in your post.

Vengus
10-15-2013, 08:25 AM
@jtatta So you think the game has progressed a lot? I can only see what's on the streams, but to me it didn't look like they have done very much since the first videos we have seen in the Kickstarter, which honestly has concerned me a lot more than not having Alpha access. Just interested in getting your opinion, you would probably know better since you can actually play it.

As for the things you said about the company, now I am even more concerned. Not sure if you were trying to help them or hurt them by including that in your post.
They said in the latest update that they were going to do an update today to see if it fixes the issues, so they are certainly working on it.

Vorpal
10-15-2013, 08:25 AM
I have no particular interest in getting into alpha until it is more stable. I'm content to wait.

GatticusFinch
10-15-2013, 08:28 AM
I'm almost out of popcorn so I'll finally respond to this thread.

First of all, CZE screwed themselves by supplying an alpha "release date." When they were forced to push it back (not far enough in my opinion) people got very uneasy. This, on the backs of them losing the World of Warcraft TCG license, was absolutely a big blow to the company as a whole. Look, I've been involved with CZE since they picked up the World of Warcraft card game and have been faithful to them. That said, they have some .... issues .... when it comes to actually running the company. I love everyone who works there, they're all great people to be around and I've known many of them for several years now. People are giving them all kinds of shit and while they do deserve it (to a certain extent) we as a community need to back off a bit.

I'll say it again. We need to back off a bit.

I've been playing in the alpha but I'll still keep it real. Simply put, the game is not ready to open the gates for another thousand people. Or even X arbitrary number of people. On Saturday night during peak time for the US the game was absolutely unplayable. I know that they're working on those issues and hope that they get them fixed. For those who are crying wolf, just relax. You'll get into the game when it's stable to play. There's absolutely no point in you having alpha access if you can't even get past the coin flip of a game.

The game looks really good. They have a long way to go and when it's done it's going to be one of the best looking games on the market. Just getting to that point is going to be a lot of work and everyone complaining every five minutes is certainly not helping. They're doing the absolute best that they can. This is a TCG company making a digital game. The end.

/endrant

Didn't they lose the WoW TCG license prior to the kickstarter? We were told, and I assume this is true, that the game has been in development long before that happened. Was CZE in bad financial shape at the time of the kickstarter?

That's water under the bridge at this point. If the game is delayed, it is delayer. However, they are only hurting themselves further by not saying openly what is going on or admitting that they were overly ambitious and cannot meet their deadlines. They are making kickstarter backers (who should be their most vocal supporters and able to hype the game and drive interest) feel like they are cut out of the loop. It is hard for me to tell other people of my interest in this game when they ask me when it comes out and I have no clue what to tell them.

Vorpal
10-15-2013, 08:32 AM
Doesn't it come out next year?

Right now, from watching streams, its obvious that there are a ton of basic stability issues to be corrected before trying to let in more people. I don't think it would even be particularly fun in its current state.

So, I'm willing to wait while CZE fixes things and hope they can progress along at a good clip. I'd like to get in eventually, but if me waiting two weeks to get into alpha means the game releases two weeks sooner, that's a trade off I'm willing to make.

nicosharp
10-15-2013, 08:34 AM
@jtatta So you think the game has progressed a lot? I can only see what's on the streams, but to me it didn't look like they have done very much since the first videos we have seen in the Kickstarter, which honestly has concerned me a lot more than not having Alpha access. Just interested in getting your opinion, you would probably know better since you can actually play it.

As for the things you said about the company, now I am even more concerned. Not sure if you were trying to help them or hurt them by including that in your post.

You shouldn't be concerned - The company actually is making the right move into a new independent product. Which is forward thinking, considering Blizzard was developing HearthStone.

HearthStone more than likely has more to do with CZE losing their license than their product itself not being marketable. WOWTCG was a great game, but had a niche following. You can immediately see the rip off when watching HearthStone if you had every played WOWTCG.

Besides the point, what jtatta is saying is these guys are a TCG / boardgame company. They make games. Digital games is brand new for them, and they have always been slow with releases even with their cardboard counter-parts. Hopefully the extra money, and shouting that has come with the kickstarter allows them to transcend to a higher level with deliverables.

Niedar
10-15-2013, 08:46 AM
What you should be concerned about is them falling behind on paying out WoW TCG tournament winnings until after the kickstarter where it picked back up again. I think the delays were over a year at one point.

GatticusFinch
10-15-2013, 08:47 AM
I just looked through the WoW TCG forums on here and it is people complaining about the same thing we are complaining about--a total lack of communication. History repeating itself, apparently.

Lots of people in those forums said they would never buy another CZE product again after they stopped communication when WoW TCG was going under (there are still people in the threads asking for an explanation). I would like to think CZE is reading these forums and taking these issues to heart, but I am starting to doubt it. This isn't an issue with moving into digital games, it is a basic customer support and interaction.

GatticusFinch
10-15-2013, 08:48 AM
What you should be concerned about is them falling behind on paying out WoW TCG tournament winnings until after the kickstarter where it picked back up again. I think the delays were over a year at one point.

Do you have a source for that? I'm not doubting you, just want to see. If the implication is true, that is a major issue.

EmraldArcher
10-15-2013, 08:54 AM
Do you have a source for that? I'm not doubting you, just want to see. If the implication is true, that is a major issue.

Just go look at the WoW tcg forums on the main CE forum page.

People were waiting for prizes from 2011 that didn't get paid out until after the Hex KS.

Could be coincidence, might not be.

Mahes
10-15-2013, 09:08 AM
So you are saying that the KS was used to pay off a debt that occurred with a previous game? If that were true that would be a huge issue. I doubt that happened, but that would be one hell of a shit storm if it were true.

Aethernaut
10-15-2013, 09:09 AM
Just go look at the WoW tcg forums on the main CE forum page.

People were waiting for prizes from 2011 that didn't get paid out until after the Hex KS.

Could be coincidence, might not be.


This is actually the first thing I have heard that has caused me any real concern. Yikes.

Niedar
10-15-2013, 09:13 AM
You probably would have never heard about it if they weren't causing concern to other people. Amazing how such a "small" thing as problems with communicating can come back to bite you in the ass.

ossuary
10-15-2013, 09:25 AM
Show a forum anywhere on the internet for an unreleased game where nobody is complaining that "communication isn't good enough." Or, for that matter, anywhere on the internet period. :p

Sorry, but "people are complaining" isn't a justification for complaining.

GatticusFinch
10-15-2013, 09:31 AM
Just go look at the WoW tcg forums on the main CE forum page.

People were waiting for prizes from 2011 that didn't get paid out until after the Hex KS.

Could be coincidence, might not be.

Ugh. I just looked at it. Here is the thread: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=21424

35 pages wherein people are complaining about not receiving their prize payouts that are overdue by a year. Suddenly, after the Hex Kickstarter closes, they are all posting how they are receiving their prize payments (starting on page 26 of the thread).

I am really starting to get worried.

keroko
10-15-2013, 09:31 AM
We have nothing to eat but each other and some of our problems are 'us' problems, not CZE problems.

I expect we will hear something substantive today.

EmraldArcher
10-15-2013, 09:31 AM
So you are saying that the KS was used to pay off a debt that occurred with a previous game? If that were true that would be a huge issue. I doubt that happened, but that would be one hell of a shit storm if it were true.

We will never know if it happened or not. CE is a private company so the only way their finances would be made public is through some kind of criminal investigation.

GatticusFinch
10-15-2013, 09:35 AM
Wow. http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=21424&page=34&p=294891&viewfull=1#post294891

butttoots
10-15-2013, 09:37 AM
Inb4 this topic closed and all of Gatticus's posts are deleted.

jtatta
10-15-2013, 09:46 AM
Man, this thread is getting hard to follow.

I wasn't trying to help or hurt the company by displaying their pros and cons. I was trying to make those aware of their past pitfalls in case you weren't already aware. The company itself is great from a game standpoint and if anyone wants to play a good game I'd always recommend Cryptozoic. That said, from a business standpoint, I've seen better. Still, the communication for this game has already been miles better than what they ever supplied for WoW.

I'll reiterate that this is a board and card gaming coming that is making their first digital game. If your friends ask you when the game is going to be out, just tell them what I tell my friends. "When it's ready." I just calmly explain what CZE is and say that it's a work in progress and will be ready when it's ready. Any normal person can accept that and move on. What people are doing on these forums is creating problems that aren't really there. We're turning on each other as well as the company for reasons that may be out of their control. For this, we need to back off. Which was my original point.

As far as the WoW prize money being paid out from Hex KS ... that's like beating a dead horse. This was brought up a while ago and it can only be taken as speculation. You can assume what you want but that's not really even on-topic for this thread.

The bottom line is that they gave us a deadline and pushed out a product before it was really ready in order to meet that deadline. I do feel like they've made progress since the early stages and the first few twitch streams but it just seems to be moving at a snails pace. I do appreciate the daily updates in the alpha forums but they're little to no help at all. All that said, I completely understand that they can't just invite everyone to alpha and I think that everyone else should understand that too. They made a mistake.

In closing, I'd like to think that they learned from their past mistakes with the WoW TCG and won't repeat the same things.

Erebus
10-15-2013, 09:47 AM
How about a simpler less conspiratorial explanation of why this happened?

CZE is a company, company have budgets. CZE has money earmarked for Hex development, then they start a kickstarter to get 300000 to help supplement that budget. They get 2.5 million. This frees up that earmarked budget to help repay loans, overdue prize cashout, and allows them to actively seek other investor with a very solid proof of concept. And that's just one possible logical explanation.

And misrepresenting inexperienced as unprofessional is my biggest issue with this game. I think it's unprofessional to release a buggy game and then fix it later with product income and DLC , or just force an unfinished game on the populace. (SOE, EA, Activision). That's why they went KS, to avoid the traps of AAA publishing.

As an inexperienced design group, I don't think it's wrong to remind them of their obligations, as they really did want to keep a hold of the game until it was more polished and more done. Listen to Cory the weekend before the Alpha and his Alpha email. He'd rather just hold onto it till it done, rather then let us help him with his bug.

The issue is that the game isn't ready, and they are behind. There's not enough room for the people in the game right now (and as proof, even though there are a "1000" grand kings and up in the Alpha, you'll rarely see more then 20 people online at any time). If they let everyone in, it'd really be counterproductive.

And lastly, I'll say this. No one in this Alpha is getting ahead. Best case 1/5 and worst case 5/5 games aren't even starting, let alone finishing. We also don't have all the cards, so a lot of the decks that are popular have severe flaws and holes. Also we can't even agree if cards are bugged or working as intended. (Lifedrain, Gas Troll, Main Phase Stack issues). Not to mention there's about 3 people streaming at any one time, so you can watch the game and learn. Also most of those streamers are going out of their way to build decks suggested by their viewers.

There's a point when the discussion is needed and warrant, and then there is a point where it's just cynical, bitter ranting. Not everyone is in the latter group, but perhaps it might be worth a second to step back and reevaluate your points and your tone.

houjix
10-15-2013, 09:52 AM
Well the last 3 major events have yet to payout the remaining prizes, so it's not like they paid everyone off from WoW, myself included. This company has minimal income with WoW being over, as I don't see Hex as starting to generate money until sometime next year and the money from board games isn't that substantial.

One thing to think about is, perhaps the WoW prizes were late as money was being funnelled into Hex development, so now they are just getting that money back that was theirs in the first place.

Niedar
10-15-2013, 09:53 AM
It is possible that is the case houjix but either way it is a shitty thing for them to have done as a company, its not even that they didn't pay people for up to two years but once again that did not communicate a damn thing the entire thing. Funny, we are beginning to have the same problem here.

EmraldArcher
10-15-2013, 09:57 AM
There's really no reason other then you're bad at running a business that people should be waiting months let alone over a year for cash prizes for a tournament.

Whether the Hex KS money was used to pay for WoW prizes or not, the delay itself says something very significant about the way CE is run as a business.

Shadowspawn
10-15-2013, 10:02 AM
How about a simpler less conspiratorial explanation of why this happened?

CZE is a company, company have budgets. CZE has money earmarked for Hex development, then they start a kickstarter to get 300000 to help supplement that budget. They get 2.5 million. This frees up that earmarked budget to help repay loans, overdue prize cashout, and allows them to actively seek other investor with a very solid proof of concept. And that's just one possible logical explanation.

And misrepresenting inexperienced as unprofessional is my biggest issue with this game. I think it's unprofessional to release a buggy game and then fix it later with product income and DLC , or just force an unfinished game on the populace. (SOE, EA, Activision). That's why they went KS, to avoid the traps of AAA publishing.

As an inexperienced design group, I don't think it's wrong to remind them of their obligations, as they really did want to keep a hold of the game until it was more polished and more done. Listen to Cory the weekend before the Alpha and his Alpha email. He'd rather just hold onto it till it done, rather then let us help him with his bug.

The issue is that the game isn't ready, and they are behind. There's not enough room for the people in the game right now (and as proof, even though there are a "1000" grand kings and up in the Alpha, you'll rarely see more then 20 people online at any time). If they let everyone in, it'd really be counterproductive.

And lastly, I'll say this. No one in this Alpha is getting ahead. Best case 1/5 and worst case 5/5 games aren't even starting, let alone finishing. We also don't have all the cards, so a lot of the decks that are popular have severe flaws and holes. Also we can't even agree if cards are bugged or working as intended. (Lifedrain, Gas Troll, Main Phase Stack issues). Not to mention there's about 3 people streaming at any one time, so you can watch the game and learn. Also most of those streamers are going out of their way to build decks suggested by their viewers.

There's a point when the discussion is needed and warrant, and then there is a point where it's just cynical, bitter ranting. Not everyone is in the latter group, but perhaps it might be worth a second to step back and reevaluate your points and your tone.

/end thread well said

hacky
10-15-2013, 10:26 AM
The forum warriors are still about?

Past WoWTCG prizes started to get paid off as the announcement to end the game came from Blizzard, fully 3 months later, and not as the Hex kickstarter ended. Take of this information as you will.

Personally, 'better late than never'. Could be that prizes couldn't get paid out while planning with license talks was in flux. And many of us believe that CZE legally could not announce the license cancellation until Blizzard did.

praesidium
10-15-2013, 10:29 AM
I would like the GK+ opinion about this scenario.

What if CZE would decide, now that every 2 days the people in the alpha would change? like they would see how many they could have at a time and change the flag on the DB (very easy to do) about which ones have access and which ones don't, downloading client isn't an issue anymore so that wouldn't be a problem.

I know why they won't do it, mainly because it would show they care about us, which they clearly don't, but also because, as a game developer i can say that first opinion of a tester is very important and they want us (the guys that aren't in) to check the game when the current bugs are fixed and see if we don't even notice it was bugged one day, and also they want us to fix our attention on finding other bugs instead of fixating ourselves to the main ones in the game right now (pass prio, etc).

Another reason why they won't do it is because right now, even with 1k invites, some gk's already lost interest and aren't trying to log in anymore so they don't have a lot of ppl trying to play at the same time, if they did this, every day would be prime hour every hour. Which is bad.

But what if they did it, i would like to know the GK+s opinion if right now CZE came here and said they would do this option, so the GK+s would only have access 2 days every 40 days (thinking that we're 20k and they let 1k in at a time) or so like the rest of us.

nicosharp
10-15-2013, 10:40 AM
But what if they did it, i would like to know the GK+s opinion if right now CZE came here and said they would do this option, so the GK+s would only have access 2 days every 40 days (thinking that we're 20k and they let 1k in at a time) or so like the rest of us.
I'd be fine with it. I am happy to have gotten a taste. I'd miss it a bit when its gone, but there are far better things I could be doing with my time than stomping bugs, and a lot of other fun games out there to play.

(You do understand that most of us (not all of us) that actually have $500+ to spend on a future potential game, have full-time jobs, and are busy.)

Xtopher
10-15-2013, 10:43 AM
I'd be fine with rotating out and letting another group rotate in. I've got plenty to do. I think that's a fine suggestion if it led to never having to read another post on this subject again. Either way, though, I think that would be fair.

praesidium
10-15-2013, 10:50 AM
I'd be fine with it. I am happy to have gotten a taste. I'd miss it a bit when its gone, but there are far better things I could be doing with my time than stomping bugs, and a lot of other fun games out there to play.

(You do understand that most of us (not all of us) that actually have $500+ to spend on a future potential game, have full-time jobs, and are busy.)

good job on implying that the ones who didn't, dont.

but maybe i live in europe and I posted this right when i got home from my full time job (as a game developer), and guess what, i'm also taking a masters at the same time, and have martial arts practice twice a week, maybe u should get down from your pedestal.

nicosharp
10-15-2013, 11:06 AM
good job on implying that the ones who didn't, dont.

but maybe i live in europe and I posted this right when i got home from my full time job (as a game developer), and guess what, i'm also taking a masters at the same time, and have martial arts practice twice a week, maybe u should get down from your pedestal.
Congratulations on jumping to conclusions. The full-time job reference was more about having other things to do than drooling over playing Hex everyday when other people can't. We were never promised early alpha access before everyone else prior to the alpha launch, so why would it matter to us now?

praesidium
10-15-2013, 11:12 AM
because i never saw any of you posting that you would be ok with giving your alpha spot for another tier, and its been a week.

but im happy to see not all gk+s are like that

Daer
10-15-2013, 11:17 AM
The "Just want to say this is an awesome community" is hilarious in retrospect.

Shadowelf
10-15-2013, 11:20 AM
But what if they did it, i would like to know the GK+s opinion if right now CZE came here and said they would do this option, so the GK+s would only have access 2 days every 40 days (thinking that we're 20k and they let 1k in at a time) or so like the rest of us.

No problem whatsoever; on the contrary i would be glad if something like this happened;

1)forums will hopefully return to normality without so much negativity around
2)everybody deserves the chance to play the game they paid for
3)the game atm is full of bugs, freezing/unfinished games, incomplete card base, hard to use deck builder, so i won't be missing much
4)reserving a name ahead of the masses was reward enough for me

nicosharp
10-15-2013, 11:23 AM
because i never saw any of you posting that you would be ok with giving your alpha spot for another tier, and its been a week.

but im happy to see not all gk+s are like that
I didn't know we had to come out and say we had to be martyrs, because I didn't know how much animosity other people had towards us. You come with your pitchforks, and I am like, just take the fkn cake kid, I don't need it.

hacky
10-15-2013, 11:24 AM
What if CZE would decide, now that every 2 days the people in the alpha would change? like they would see how many they could have at a time and change the flag on the DB (very easy to do) about which ones have access and which ones don't, downloading client isn't an issue anymore so that wouldn't be a problem.

I know why they won't do it, mainly because it would show they care about us...

No, they won't do it because it's a waste of resources that are far better used making the game and servers more stable, coding in more cards, fixing bugs and implementing needed features into the client. All in order to actually invite more people.

When you invite X number of people to a closed alpha/beta test, you fully expect that only a percentage of them will be active and concurrent users. For example, if 500 people played for 1 hour a day, on average, you'll see an average concurrency of 20 people online at any one time. The perceived 'inactivity' doesn't have much to do with lack of interest.

Coming from a software development background, there are far too many suggestions from users here that don't make a lick of sense. I understand the sentiment, but some nice things won't get the game into more of our hands faster.

--

For the record, if you really want to take my GK invite away from me, do it. I've had several days of planned play/streaming cut short by client and server issues. I'm sure you're itching to have randomly unplayable Hex game sessions as well.

hacky
10-15-2013, 11:30 AM
The "Just want to say this is an awesome community" is hilarious in retrospect.

It is an awesome community. You just have to ignore the trolls, and people that won't listen to reason.

Daer
10-15-2013, 11:35 AM
So exactly like 99.99% of all video game communities?

The_Wine_Gnat
10-15-2013, 11:35 AM
It is an awesome community. You just have to ignore the trolls, and people that won't listen to reason.

If only Congress was this way...

praesidium
10-15-2013, 11:37 AM
No, they won't do it because it's a waste of resources that are far better used making the game and servers more stable, coding in more cards, fixing bugs and implementing needed features into the client. All in order to actually invite more people.

When you invite X number of people to a closed alpha/beta test, you fully expect that only a percentage of them will be active and concurrent users. For example, if 500 people played for 1 hour a day, on average, you'll see an average concurrency of 20 people online at any one time. The perceived 'inactivity' doesn't have much to do with lack of interest.

Coming from a software development background, there are far too many suggestions from users here that don't make a lick of sense. I understand the sentiment, but some nice things won't get the game into more of our hands faster.

--

For the record, if you really want to take my GK invite away from me, do it. I've had several days of planned play/streaming cut short by client and server issues. I'm sure you're itching to have randomly unplayable Hex game sessions as well.


In my post i said many reasons why they wouldn't do it, waste of resources was none of it, what resources? the php script that would rotate the accounts allowed to log? anyone in the first year of college would be able to code that script.

GatticusFinch
10-15-2013, 11:38 AM
I don't think it is any less of an "awesome community" just because people want Crypto to answer some questions. Hell, if they didn't care, they would just abandon the game and not worry about it anymore.

I think the game could be revolutionary, but they are scaring away people who helped fund it by not explaining anything.

hacky
10-15-2013, 11:58 AM
In my post i said many reasons why they wouldn't do it, waste of resources was none of it, what resources? the php script that would rotate the accounts allowed to log? anyone in the first year of college would be able to code that script.

Because it's not just a php script, and it's not just a flag on the DB. To idealize this idea into what needs to be done...

- Determine what accounts to create. (what's the criteria?)
- Create accounts for the 1000 people to be rotated in. (script already written)
- Disable 1000 previous accounts.
- Email 1000 previous accounts that their accounts are closed -> leads to new support contacts to CZE about "why is my account not working" when people invariably miss this email.
- Email 1000 new accounts their account info. -> leads to new support contacts about new people being unable to log in
- Repeat this process, which could easily take over a work day, every 2 days.

Costs:

The cost of all the support contacts created by an awkward situation - closing accounts, and people not expecting to get in suddenly receiving accounts.
The development cost of disabling an account, if it is not already easily done.
The time cost of making sure emails are sent to notify people who have a disabled or enabled account, in addition to the actual time to for an email to reach its recipient.
The bandwidth cost (likely already accounted for) of 1000 new people downloading the client every 2 days. Though, explained below, it probably won't actually be 1000.

Benefit:

Less than 1000 people will be able to try out Hex alpha. People will miss their notification, people may not be able to take advantage of their two day window, people may not be able to download the client in time... it will probably even be less than 50% about to take advantage of their window.

End result:

19000 maximum unhappy people still unable to play alpha
1000 maximum happy(?) people able to play alpha for 2 days
1000 really confused GK+ backers


...in my opinion and analysis, implementing an access rotation is not worth the development and support cost, for how minimal benefit there is.

Shaqattaq
10-15-2013, 12:07 PM
Well, this thread has gone off the rails. I'm closing it because of the general attacks. Moderators are going to let the behavior in this thread go, but in the future, personal attacks and trolling won't be tolerated in the forums. Stay on subject, keep discussions productive.

We informed people for weeks leading up to the alpha on how we would go about distributing invites. We couldn't throw all 20,000 people at an untested server, and some people have hit the nail on the head here in terms of server load causing some bugs on its own. We decided to put the Grand Kings through Producers on first, but everyone will eventually get in. HEX will exist for years. Waiting a week or a few weeks for alpha access-- to a client that exists for testing-- is such an small percentage of how much time you'll be spending on this game. And our engineers are dedicated to getting the hardware stable in order to allow the next group of players into to the game.

We update nightly, sometimes twice a day if we have something relevant to say. We're averaging more than two posts per workday. These updates are a culmination of multiple people's workday, and sometimes the answer is "we can't say for certain that this will work." Fixes are tested by QA people in a staging environment, then implemented should those fixes work and not break anything else. For example, anybody who played the Gen Con build will recognize that one of these builds clearly caused us to lose some functioning cards, which we eventually need to bring back once we've gotten more backers into the server.

These unknowns prevent us from being able to project, promise specific dates about alpha access. That's just the nature of the beast. Certainly, being able to give everyone a date and being able to predict with reliable accuracy the dates we'd be able to allow people into the server would make everyone's job here much easier. But there are so many pieces in play that we're not able to give dates at this time, and to give hard dates on speculation, guesswork would show a lack of respect from us to the community. We recognize that people make plans based on dates given, and I respect that any date we give at this point must recognize that. Once we're able to safely add users to the server, we will do so. There is no scenario where we can add users and don't add those users immediately. I apologize that we can't give you specific dates at this time, but really, it's just not possible. When we can give dates, we will do so instantly. My fingers will be typing so fast on my keyboard to update the forums, Kickstarter page that they'll catch fire.

As far as funds being spent, the Kickstarter funds were used to staff up, finish the game, order art, and the like. A CZE employee paid for the puppy party out of his own funds. The HEX Con funds sit in an account, waiting to be used. Any suggestion that funds were used for anything else than HEX is ridiculous. It would be wildly illogical to have a successful Kickstarter, have people excited about a project, and then use that money to do anything other than get that product launched. It would also be dishonest, fraudulent. Consider the matter of discussing this in particular closed.

A reminder that for all alpha updates, you can read the Alpha forum here: http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=27943