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View Full Version : Should shard cards be counted as the gem they represent?



darkwonders
10-14-2013, 12:55 PM
Right now this only affects Gas Troll as playing a ruby shard trigger his ability.

In MTG mana cards usually do not count as the color they represent. Will that be the same for Hex or are they supposed to count as gem they represent?

Commoble
10-14-2013, 01:09 PM
I don't see any reason why ruby resources shouldn't count as ruby cards. "MTG didn't do it that way" isn't really a reason.

SomeoneRandom
10-14-2013, 01:13 PM
It is really a question of just choosing one and sticking to it for balance reasons. Gas Troll seems like hes balanced for resources not counting, but you never know. This is another question that will be answered when they release comprehensive rules.

Hemotherapy
10-14-2013, 01:21 PM
I though gas troll having resources count towards it too seemed a little OP. But you have to consider it's in a dual color deck, so it's not like you'll be spamming ruby shards every turn every game.

Plus that multi colored shard probably won't count towards gas troll as it isn't a "Ruby" itself

EmraldArcher
10-14-2013, 01:24 PM
Gas Troll is slightly OP if ruby shards activate his ability.

A 4/4 on turn 2 is pretty strong.

SomeoneRandom
10-14-2013, 01:40 PM
Gas Troll is slightly OP if ruby shards activate his ability.

A 4/4 on turn 2 is pretty strong.

Yeah, I mean realistically hitting a 3/3 on turn 2 is mostly average for a deck built around that. I think the main thing that makes it so strong is threshold. You can play a small amount of wild resources and fill up on rubies to make gas troll stronger. I think it is a little strong and above-curve as it stands, but the whole set is really strong so its hard to tell. I think the big problem for me is how easy it is to get out of heat-wave range. If you play first and get it up to 3/3 on turn 2 your opponent doesn't have a response and has to use a strong kill spell on your 1 drop. I just want the rules to come out so we know for sure how the game structure should work :) Curious to see if they made any changes to some intricate rules like timestamping, last known information and details on how revert/transform should be working.

nicosharp
10-14-2013, 02:08 PM
In future sets, how would dual-purpose shards be treated? Represent both colors? Represent neither?
I like how Gas Troll can become an attacking 4/4 on turn 2 currently, but also am curious on the intended card type association.

Hemotherapy
10-14-2013, 02:08 PM
I don't know many people that would use heatwave as their way to remove him, burn or ragefire yes, but not heatwave :p

EmraldArcher
10-14-2013, 02:11 PM
I don't know many people that would use heatwave as their way to remove him, burn or ragefire yes, but not heatwave :p

You could actually cast Heatwave to clear your opponents field as long as he's a 2/2 since he would end up being a 3/3 before it resolved.

SomeoneRandom
10-14-2013, 02:13 PM
You could actually cast Heatwave to clear your opponents field as long as he's a 2/2 since he would end up being a 3/3 before it resolved.

This is the intended behavior I think, however I attempted to do this the other day and he dies before growing. Think it has to do with the fact that Gas Troll isn't getting bigger while the spell is still on the stack, but once the spell resolves.


I don't know many people that would use heatwave as their way to remove him, burn or ragefire yes, but not heatwave :p

Depends on the deck, the Gas Troll deck really only has Howling Brave and maybe Feral Ogre as Heat Wave targets, so getting a 1:1 out of it on a high priority target is okay. Also it avoids rage-fire too by growing to a 3/3 since Ragefire is a basic action.

darkwonders
10-14-2013, 02:19 PM
I don't see any reason why ruby resources shouldn't count as ruby cards. "MTG didn't do it that way" isn't really a reason.

You have to admit that this game heavily borrows from MTG. Even the 5 shard colors pretty much perfectly mimics what the 5 colors of MTG.

I was just curious which way this particular situation should go.

Hemotherapy
10-14-2013, 02:48 PM
This is the intended behavior I think, however I attempted to do this the other day and he dies before growing. Think it has to do with the fact that Gas Troll isn't getting bigger while the spell is still on the stack, but once the spell resolves.



Depends on the deck, the Gas Troll deck really only has Howling Brave and maybe Feral Ogre as Heat Wave targets, so getting a 1:1 out of it on a high priority target is okay. Also it avoids rage-fire too by growing to a 3/3 since Ragefire is a basic action.

Uh..Heat Wave is a basic action so he'd avoid it too.

Yes, can confirm frmo watching a stream, he dies before getting buffed.

Vorpal
10-14-2013, 03:01 PM
You would think a shard of ruby would be the most ruby card of them all. I think intuitively, having a ruby resource count as a 'ruby card' makes the most sense.

Gas troll, in particular, might need adjusting to say 'a non resource card' or what have you.

Hexmage
10-14-2013, 03:40 PM
Gas Troll needs to go either up in price, or make resources not count or both since its still way bellow the cost curve.

SomeoneRandom
10-14-2013, 05:20 PM
Uh..Heat Wave is a basic action so he'd avoid it too.

Yes, can confirm frmo watching a stream, he dies before getting buffed.

Yes, my point being that if Gas Troll didn't grow with resources he would on average be a 2/2 on turn 2. Most likely followed by a creature which allows Heat Wave to be a good counter, but currently it grows larger than all removal but Murder/Inner Conflict/Extinction immediately.

Drake6k
10-14-2013, 08:08 PM
I just hit someone with a 12/12 Gas Troll. I think the card may be the most OP card in the Alpha. I'm totally comfy with resources not triggering Gas Troll and similar, it would be a very reasonable nerf (was it even intentional?).

Erebus
10-14-2013, 09:27 PM
Someone was in the a match with a CZE tag and they said that it(Gas Troll) was not working as intended.

Eierdotter
10-15-2013, 05:22 AM
imagine a perfect play

on the play
Turn1: Wild Shard + Gas Troll
Turn2: Ruby Shard + 2 Unmerciful Tormentor, attack for 4
Turn3: Ruby Shard + 3 Burn, attack for 16
Total of 26 damage Turn 3

EmraldArcher
10-15-2013, 07:17 AM
Someone was in the a match with a CZE tag and they said that it(Gas Troll) was not working as intended.

Were they talking about gaining +1/+1 from resources or about the ability triggering on a ruby card resolving instead of being played?

goldpannerpete
10-15-2013, 10:43 PM
gas troll is most definitely over powered as it stands, no way playing a shard should allow it to pump up. Seen the card being played all day. It's just a touch much. Of course things may be different with all cards available later on, but as it stands in alpha right now it's ugly.