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View Full Version : This is probably a terrible idea but.....



FenMiHuo
10-16-2013, 07:22 AM
CZE should totally try getting help from outside volunteer developers. I know I would help out just for the sake of it. I also think it would be really cool to get into the code base of the game and play around (if I'm being honest)
But some of us are professional bug fixers, I don't even know what half the code I'm looking at does sometimes because it was outsourced and still find and repair bugs in it. I guarantee a game company like this could get some decent free volunteers to help speed this stability and bug fixing process up.
and before someone says anything about security, thats what NDAs are for (and they could look at resumes and stuff too)
Just a thought, since I know we all want to see alpha as soon as possible

Jbizzi
10-16-2013, 07:29 AM
Though I am sure the sentiment is genuine, a company cannot simply request the help of volunteers for something as delicate as this. You begin allowing randoms access to your code and bad things happen.

The best way to help is either by getting into the Alpha and reporting bugs or simply apply to CZE for a position or statement of intention.

SomeoneRandom
10-16-2013, 08:20 AM
I think it is probably a bad idea to do this, even though I know I would love to help out and get some more experience. Especially since I am in the same boat as you are, doing it as my day job. =]

However, they would need to have someone reviewing possible changes constantly and I imagine a large amount of the changes wouldn't work without knowing the system intimately. Based on the local assets I think its probably possible to get help coding in new cards since its very granular. It is hard to say if that's true though.

In hindsight, I think they should have hired a couple more developers once they got the KS money. With a 1-2 month ramp time new developers would still have significant contribution by now and they certainly had some extra money. Oh well :) hindsight is 20/20 as they say!

Commoble
10-16-2013, 08:54 AM
Yeah, if you want to help out CZE with that sort of thing, your best bet is probably to apply for a job.

Kilo24
10-16-2013, 08:56 AM
Even without the security concerns, it's a bad idea. Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks's_law).

EmraldArcher
10-16-2013, 08:57 AM
You were right.

FenMiHuo
10-16-2013, 09:26 AM
Even without the security concerns, it's a bad idea. Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks's_law).

While I agree with Brooks's Law, this wouldnt be the case in that these wouldnt be people they rely on as part of the team, its "do it yourself and see if you could figure it out before we do" kind of thing. So ramp up time would be irrelevent because the CZE team would take no time explaining anything and shouldnt affect their work flow unless the random volunteer happens to solve the problem first. Thats all, its a weird concept haha.

SomeoneRandom
10-16-2013, 10:17 AM
Yeah, if you want to help out CZE with that sort of thing, your best bet is probably to apply for a job.

I did and even interviewed :( They weren't hiring at the time, trying again in the coming months.

FenMiHuo
10-16-2013, 10:22 AM
I did and even interviewed :( They weren't hiring at the time, trying again in the coming months.

Same here, though they never called me about my application in general

RCDv57
10-16-2013, 10:36 AM
While I agree with Brooks's Law, this wouldnt be the case in that these wouldnt be people they rely on as part of the team, its "do it yourself and see if you could figure it out before we do" kind of thing. So ramp up time would be irrelevent because the CZE team would take no time explaining anything and shouldnt affect their work flow unless the random volunteer happens to solve the problem first. Thats all, its a weird concept haha.

There's still the communication issues, and random programming scrubs are gonna add bugs.
Not to mention they've already got several super geniuses on the team.
One good programmer is better than ten bad ones.

mudkip
10-16-2013, 11:49 AM
Even without the security concerns, it's a bad idea. Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks's_law).

The project isn't late, only the Alpha. Now would be the perfect time to add people.

SomeoneRandom
10-16-2013, 12:08 PM
The project isn't late, only the Alpha. Now would be the perfect time to add people.

I think realistically the project is already late. Early on the target was beta in September release by end of year. Now I honestly don't see beta until late November/early December. That being said, after interviewing, deciding, offering, relocating, and training a new developer they wouldn't really be productive until probably December or later. The time to get people was when the Kickstarter reached its goal in 3 days and they realized the scope of product we all expected. :)

I am still confident the final product will be great since the concept is still excellent, but I am really disappointed at how long I will have to wait for it :(

Keizo
10-16-2013, 06:27 PM
Not sure I understand the point of this suggestion.

Does CZE have a issues with bugfixing and/or development? Are they incompetent? Do they lack programmers? Why would they need to outsource this if they're already capable of developing HEX by themselves?

Not trying to be an ass here, just looking for context.

Zarien
10-16-2013, 07:13 PM
The project isn't late, only the Alpha. Now would be the perfect time to add people.

To be fair, the Alpha isn't really "late" either. Did they think they would be able to give alpha a week or two earlier than when it came out? Sure. But they weren't even originally going to offer the Alpha as an option to get into for the kickstarter. And then they did so and were still able to prepare as much as they have in the short amount of time since the Kickstarter. Heck, a lot of us who backed early didn't expect beta access until way later. So when they pump out a, for the most part, playable client this early? I think we can say they aren't really "late".

Kilo24
10-17-2013, 09:56 AM
The project isn't late, only the Alpha. Now would be the perfect time to add people.

Technically, they are late since their initial projection was that we would have beta in September.

Practically, the project is at a state where the amount of benefit bringing in new people to sort out code issues would be eclipsed by the amount of problems they would cause as they figured out what was what on the project. They would be a net benefit eventually, but only in the long-term - which, by this point, would very likely be after the game is released and they don't need more programmers. Brooks's law is less about deadlines than it is about adding new programmers only being a long-term benefit, not a short-term one.

HecatesLover
10-18-2013, 12:19 PM
There is a bit of common wisdom in the software industry that any given project will take anywhere from 1/4 to 4 times the estimated length. We aren't even close to the upper end.

phyzycs
10-18-2013, 01:41 PM
I think the better idea is to let them develop their game and all the testers continue to do what they're supposed to be doing: testing the game and reporting bugs - not offering staff advice. They know what they're doing. Let them do it.