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DanTheMeek
10-26-2013, 09:41 AM
So I'm not sure if this is been discussed before but I didn't see anything come up with a quick search of the forum.

My understanding is that gems, as of right now, are going to be all available to the player right from the start, not unlike resources, and for the PvP side of things I think this is a good thing and the best way of handling them. But as the PvE side of things is separate from the PvP, I'm curious if there are are plans, or if any one thinks it would be a good idea, to have unique PvE only gems that you have to collect in the same manner as PvE only cards and equipment. These gem's can have all sorts of wacky effects and can be used on PvP cards when the PvP cards are being used in the PvE environment, but other wise are completely separate from PvP so they can afford to be a bit more wild with the effects and be something not everyone immediately has access to but has to chase. I understand there's so much equipment in the game that people already have plenty to chase, but having chase-able PvE gems just seems like it might be fun too.

ossuary
10-26-2013, 09:45 AM
As of right now, yes, the gems are just going to be available in unlimited quantities, like basic resources (though you can only use 4 of a specific gem in any given deck). You won't have to find or acquire the gems in order to use them.

As to whether or not there will be special PVE only gems that you find like loot... hard to say. I doubt it, but it's certainly an interesting idea. Effectively it would just be like an extra equipment slot, but it would work for any socketable card instead of just one specific card. There's definitely potential there.

Shadowelf
10-26-2013, 10:02 AM
Not a bad idea, but with ~1300 pieces of equipment (2 for each card we can get), there is enough variety and customisation to last us for a long time (http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/09/02/dragoncon-2013-hextcg-pve-design-panel/ check 0:19:30). Not sure how gems will enhance this variety, especially since they will updating with pvp sets frequently (and those cards can be used pve and have their own equipments), and pve updates will be following close behind (minor updates in pve between pvp sets, major pve updates between pvp blocks http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/09/02/dragoncon-2013-hextcg-pve-design-panel/ check 0:51:20)

jetah
10-26-2013, 01:58 PM
I was assuming (yeah i know) that gems would come from pve then could be sold to the pvpers.

I consider the pve side more like a tradeskill (a profession if you're an mmo'er) for the pvpers.

this would allow pve'rs a way to get plat and a way for pvpers to get gems. but i'm sure i've mistaken it.

Shadowelf
10-26-2013, 02:53 PM
I was assuming (yeah i know) that gems would come from pve then could be sold to the pvpers.

I consider the pve side more like a tradeskill (a profession if you're an mmo'er) for the pvpers.

this would allow pve'rs a way to get plat and a way for pvpers to get gems. but i'm sure i've mistaken it.


PvP is isolated from PvE. Things you earn in PvE will not impact your PvP experience as we want to make sure PvP is well balanced and people are on an even footing. Also, Gems are not something you have to collect, they are like the resources in that you just have access to all you need during deck construction.


How is it going to work for pvers, is that you will be able to list your pve drops (equipment, mats, possibly gold, possibly phantom versions of cards) for plat at the AH, then use that plat to fund your pvp needs (buy boosters, pay entrance fee to tournaments)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUn3gOclMc check 0:33:15

Kingrags
10-28-2013, 03:18 AM
Is it just me who thinks giving away the gems for free seems like a lost opportunity? I'd love to have to collect my gems. It also seems like suitable stuff to put in treasure chests as well as being able to find them in PvE

Shadowelf
10-28-2013, 04:30 AM
Is it just me who thinks giving away the gems for free seems like a lost opportunity? I'd love to have to collect my gems. It also seems like suitable stuff to put in treasure chests as well as being able to find them in PvE

Nah they can add gems in pve as collectibles later on if they so wish ,but as i said earlier there is enough customisation and variety already, with 1300 equipments just for set1 pvp/pve

Ebynfel
10-28-2013, 03:14 PM
Nah they can add gems in pve as collectibles later on if they so wish ,but as i said earlier there is enough customisation and variety already, with 1300 equipments just for set1 pvp/pve


Not to mention all the other cards, PVE and raid only reward PVE cards, mercenaries to be found, etc.

The reasoning for the gems as they stand now, is so that PVP remains balanced and all players have the same gems. Imagine having a legendary, awesome socketed troop, but not being able to pull the 'gem' which doesnt even count as a card in the deck, in order to make him competitive?

keroko
10-28-2013, 03:21 PM
if the pvp ones were not given, option sets between players could result in some pretty OP things in comparative matchup, no?

the 3/3 rhino, the cost downer, the 'deals dmg equal to power on entry...'

BigDog
10-28-2013, 03:38 PM
I imagine that the "pve gem found as loot" won't be available at the beginning of the game since you want everyone comfortable with the basic mechanics at first. However, it is possible design space moving forward and in particular, seems like it might be a useful hook to differentiate a particular pve dungeon(for example, gem: destroy the "mcguffin" when this ally enters play, if this ally leaves play, the opponent puts a "mcguffin" in play). So it feels just like another tool in the designer's arsenal and i'd be shocked if it wasn't explored at some point.

As to the "all the gems at once", i feel that is probably the way to go. You already have a collectible to chase after in the form of cards, asking people the equivalent of spending 2x the money to acquire the card they want and the gem to socket it with seems like a poor experience waiting to happen if you are resource poor(whether that resource is money, time, whatever)

DanTheMeek
10-29-2013, 07:19 AM
The reasoning for the gems as they stand now, is so that PVP remains balanced and all players have the same gems. Imagine having a legendary, awesome socketed troop, but not being able to pull the 'gem' which doesnt even count as a card in the deck, in order to make him competitive?

Now image having every card you need for an awesome theme but but none of a single playset of cards thats legendary rare so its hard to pull and goes for huge money on the auction house, but this legendary rare card is the crux of the whole deck? Or maybe its just a normal rare but because theres just so many rares in set one you haven't been able to get that either. The sad reality with traditional card game (which Hex PvP does seem to be following) is that people who do spend big always DO have an advantage over those who don't or get unlucky. The exception are the Living Card Games that have been becoming more and more popular where instead of having to gamble on random packs every pack has its own predetermined set of cards and always comes with playsets and new cards are released in much more frequent intervals to maintain the feeling of collecting and change, but Hex hasn't given us any reason to believe they intend to go that route.

Now again, I think they ARE doing the right thing with how their handling PvP gems, but its kind of arbitrary for them to care about competitive fairness with Gems and still allow the actual collection of cards to be done in such a way as to develop a rift between the have and have nots. I'm not saying one way is better then the other (though my own opinion would be toward having the option of a single 60 dollar price for playsets of all set 1 cards instead of buying via packs if you wished) but the current method does seem to be kind of stuck in the middle where they don't quite know which way they want to go. If you're going to make people spend tons of money if they want every card, why not make them spend tons of money if they want every gem too, why make things even in one area and not another?

Again, don't mean to sound like I'm being negative, just making an observation here, but I know my own feelings have a tendency to come out more loudly then I intend in my posts. Either way, I still love the idea of having PvE completely separated from PvP as it allows them much more flexibility to do whatever they want, be it making gem's chase able or freely provided, with out giving players an advantage over each other in PvP. Its not something I can recall any TCGs doing before.

Ebynfel
10-29-2013, 07:35 AM
Now image having every card you need for an awesome theme but but none of a single playset of cards thats legendary rare so its hard to pull and goes for huge money on the auction house, but this legendary rare card is the crux of the whole deck? Or maybe its just a normal rare but because theres just so many rares in set one you haven't been able to get that either. The sad reality with traditional card game (which Hex PvP does seem to be following) is that people who do spend big always DO have an advantage over those who don't or get unlucky. The exception are the Living Card Games that have been becoming more and more popular where instead of having to gamble on random packs every pack has its own predetermined set of cards and always comes with playsets and new cards are released in much more frequent intervals to maintain the feeling of collecting and change, but Hex hasn't given us any reason to believe they intend to go that route.

Now again, I think they ARE doing the right thing with how their handling PvP gems, but its kind of arbitrary for them to care about competitive fairness with Gems and still allow the actual collection of cards to be done in such a way as to develop a rift between the have and have nots. I'm not saying one way is better then the other (though my own opinion would be toward having the option of a single 60 dollar price for playsets of all set 1 cards instead of buying via packs if you wished) but the current method does seem to be kind of stuck in the middle where they don't quite know which way they want to go. If you're going to make people spend tons of money if they want every card, why not make them spend tons of money if they want every gem too, why make things even in one area and not another?

Again, don't mean to sound like I'm being negative, just making an observation here, but I know my own feelings have a tendency to come out more loudly then I intend in my posts. Either way, I still love the idea of having PvE completely separated from PvP as it allows them much more flexibility to do whatever they want, be it making gem's chase able or freely provided, with out giving players an advantage over each other in PvP. Its not something I can recall any TCGs doing before.


Yeah, the CARDS are the big part here. If I'm missing the legendary, I'll have to find it. But gems arent cards. It'd be like cracking packs to find rare champions, it's a path i wouldnt want to go down. Sure, the gems affect the cards i nthe deck, but you're already chasing enough in the set of cards that require money to get. The PVP side costing, it's the same as any other TCG experience. You crack packs or head to the secondary market for the cards. Why unbalance things even more by adding more chasers such as the gems or champions and whatnot? Without the cards both are useless, so my point for PVP, keep the focus on the cards we play coming in packs. The ones that are contained, and leave the modifiers out of it.

For PVE, I can see this happening, that gems become chasable or drops, for PVE use only. There's no money barrier there, and adds to the loot tables if CZE goes that route. And doesn't impact limited formats, where you would have to pull a socketed card, AND the gem to make it useful.

jetah
11-01-2013, 06:20 AM
I was thinking about this. Shadow do you have any quotes about any gear (or gems) being account bound? Meaning in order to get that specific item you have to farm for it.

I wouldn't mind seeing a few (less than 10 or 20) items that were account bound.

ossuary
11-01-2013, 06:27 AM
Cory has said that generally speaking he's not into account bound items. The only exceptions to this are sleeves / mercenaries, and of course the kickstarter rewards, because those are supposed to be limited. Everything else is intended to be tradeable.

Shadowelf
11-01-2013, 08:02 AM
I was thinking about this. Shadow do you have any quotes about any gear (or gems) being account bound? Meaning in order to get that specific item you have to farm for it.

I wouldn't mind seeing a few (less than 10 or 20) items that were account bound.

Only sleeves and mercs will be account bound ;

http://www.twitch.tv/knightsoftheroundshow/b/430004874 check 1:13:00

As for bound on equip/account items, Chris Woods has said that currently there are no plans for it

http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/09/03/dragoncon-2013-interview-with-chris-woods-magical-creature/ check 0:02:00

jetah
11-01-2013, 10:04 PM
Ah I was hoping for something that could say "I walked there, up hill in the snow barefoot, both ways!" something that wasn't: "meh i ebay'd this I don't know how to play"

Xenavire
11-02-2013, 05:21 AM
Ah I was hoping for something that could say "I walked there, up hill in the snow barefoot, both ways!" something that wasn't: "meh i ebay'd this I don't know how to play"

Sleeves. And if you PvE a lot or do the wild west format, mercs. They cant be bought on ebay (for the most part.)

Shadowelf
11-02-2013, 05:48 AM
Sleeves. And if you PvE a lot or do the wild west format, mercs. They cant be bought on ebay (for the most part.)

Well you can buy mercs as a scratch off code on ebay, but we won't know if it's worth it before we open treasure chests and figure out the chance of getting one out of them.

jetah
11-02-2013, 08:05 AM
My point was someone could just purchase card sets from a 3rd party website. At least with very limited BoA (Bind to Account) items, I'll know the player at least knows how to play.

IE when you defeat the last boss in the story we could receive a BoA Gem.

Jinxies
11-02-2013, 09:43 AM
I always hated bind to account things, a trading card game should try to minimize stuff like that as much as possible.

jetah
11-02-2013, 09:45 AM
I hate MMO's where all of the loot is BoP. BoA isnt that bad. Like I said before, I'm not asking for everything to be BoA, just a few items, like less than 10.

I can see where everything could be not bound, but then you could just buy everything. no effort required.

Xenavire
11-02-2013, 11:12 AM
Well you can buy mercs as a scratch off code on ebay, but we won't know if it's worth it before we open treasure chests and figure out the chance of getting one out of them.

Thats why I said 'for the most part'. We don't know the extent of what will be BoA and what will be BoA after activation.

There are definitely things that cannot honestly be bought though (KS rewards, mercs/sleeves/perks.) So that means there will always be something limited that cannot be bought.

Shadowelf
11-02-2013, 02:13 PM
Thats why I said 'for the most part'. We don't know the extent of what will be BoA and what will be BoA after activation.

There are definitely things that cannot honestly be bought though (KS rewards, mercs/sleeves/perks.) So that means there will always be something limited that cannot be bought.

Yeah that's true Xen; in time there will be only a handful of people with every sleeve and merc, if any. Currently only 15 people have everything from KS (producers), and i bet not everybody among them have the Jadim sleeves. As for mercs, besides those that will be given at events by cze and we will have a shot at with chests, there will be others that will be given as promotional items by cze and others; for example Level up will be handing out a merc to players from Philippines when the game enters closed beta


Here at Games in Asia, we will also be giving away two rare Andres The Supremo Cards to players from the Philippines when the game enters closed beta. The card is based on the Philippine hero Andres Bonifacio. According to Level Up Games, there will only be 1000 Andres The Supremo Cards to be given away, so you won’t want to miss this chance.

http://www.gamesinasia.com/level-up-games-brings-cryptozoics-hex-shards-of-fate-to-the-philippines/

mudkip
11-02-2013, 06:18 PM
Have the card details of Andres The Supremo been released? Is it a PvE card?

Shadowelf
11-03-2013, 12:57 AM
Have the card details of Andres The Supremo been released? Is it a PvE card?

Yeah it is a mecenary as i was saying above