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Erebus
10-29-2013, 06:19 PM
While I can't be 100% certain this is what happened, but I basically had some guy walk away from his computer during a match with me.

I was in a winning board state and then he made a tactical error which made it my assured victory next turn. He got to his first main phase and then stop doing anything. I asked if we had crash but had no response. Since I was doing school work anyways, I let the timer countdown all the way.

I have a screen shot of the timer in it's final moments, but I figured this be very dumb in such a small pool of players. Do we call these people out? For all I know some emergency happened that caused him to run away from his computer, but the timing makes it less likely.

Also there needs to be some sort of implementation on CZE part to avoid my situation in the future. 30 minutes per player is okay for an entire game, but perhaps some phase/turn limit that is much smaller. Perhaps 5 minutes and it passes to the other turn, another 5 minutes and you auto concede?

Either way I don't know what to do about this player, as I'm the type of person who assumes the best of people.

Slish
10-29-2013, 06:25 PM
I think you are overreacting. Why would he even bother to make such a hassle. There are no winnings. Not even stats. Im pretty sure something came up in real-life. Or he conceded but hex bugged out for you. Or something like that..

Soldack
10-29-2013, 06:27 PM
I hope it wasn't me. I play at work sometimes and if my boss walks in, I alt-tab out till they leave....

Erebus
10-29-2013, 06:31 PM
I said specifically I might be, most people would be on here blasting his name all over the forums. I'm bringing it up because there is no feature to protect players against this yet, so it seems. And since it happened, we should probably discuss it. If it was intentional then it was maliciousness, if it was a bug, then it needs to be explored. Regardless there needs to be safeguard.

There are lots of possible outcomes, but I wasn't calling the person out. Rather I was bringing the issue to light.

Xtopher
10-29-2013, 06:33 PM
It's possible he was griefing you, but there are too many possibilities to be sure -- including all types of game stopping bugs. Regardless, what does it matter? Just quit and move on. These games don't count for anything.

Shaq has already stated that he has ideas on how to encourage people not to do this. Also, I wouldn't mind an option when the game is created to enable a time-out clock for the match, but both players would need to agree to it.

Lastly, if you really do assume the best in people, then apply that to this event. I wouldn't think twice about it if it happened to me.

edit: I'm not sure, but I think blasting his name all over the forums would be a ToS violation for the forums, so it's good you didn't choose to do that. Also, intentional doesn't equate with malicious. There could be a number of reasons someone intentionally walked away from a game without intending malice.

funktion
10-29-2013, 06:48 PM
At this point in the game, it is WAY more likely that this was bug related than anything else.

Gwaer
10-29-2013, 07:11 PM
I've also left a game before against a friend, I left to start a new game and it never notified him, he had to surrender. Luckily we were on mumble and he realized it after 3 or 4 minutes.

FenMiHuo
10-29-2013, 08:00 PM
if it wasnt a bug he might have also just gotten mad and left his machine to go vent and do something else (like eat) forgetting to close to client (or trying to and not looking back if it asked for some form of confirmation)
I'm just saying this cause its absolutely something I might do by mistake haha

Soth
10-29-2013, 08:43 PM
This is a good point. This guy may not have been griefing, but 100% for sure once the game releases people will do this on purpose to grief. Best fix that before release. Each turn should time out after a max of 3-4 minutes imo. If after 5 minutes there has been no feedback from the afk player, his next turns should time out immediately.

Kind of like in poker where you have a time bank, and once it is used up you need to hit the "I'm back" button.

Xtopher
10-29-2013, 09:01 PM
It could even be one minute for casual games. I can't imagine not moving the mouse for more than a minute, even if you're trying to decide what to do.

Tournaments, though, should have no restrictions.

Maphalux
10-29-2013, 09:58 PM
Last word on this was there will be a 5 minute time out. That is more than adequate to deal with this kind of thing.

purehybrid
10-29-2013, 09:59 PM
Who cares? Nothing riding on it, you won, just concede and find a new game.

Hopefully by beta/launch, you'll have the ability to tab between the main menus and active game(s), so you can play more than one game at once... making this a non-issue, even in the case of actual griefers, with actual stakes on the line.

NemesiN
10-29-2013, 11:11 PM
There shouldn't be turn limits at all. Sometimes turns can be long arduous thought processes depending on board state. Now, with that said, just go the MTGO route. If you do NOTHING for 10 minutes, it DQs you and you lose. This gives plenty of reasonable time to someone if they have something else they HAVE to do. Otherwise, if they are going to be gone for 15+ minutes, it is common courtesy to let the other person know and just concede. Either that or it can come up with a prompt for the other player to kick them or not, just in case you are in the middle of a killer match and they have to be gone for more than 10 minutes. This leaves it to the players to decide.

Mike411
10-30-2013, 06:21 AM
I said specifically I might be, most people would be on here blasting his name all over the forums.

I wouldn't say that, especially during alpha. I think they mentioned awhile ago there would be per-turn as well as per-game timers, I wouldn't worry about it at this point. If there's an option for a notification when you're alt-tabbed out and it's your priority, that would be good though.

ossuary
10-30-2013, 06:24 AM
They've already stated previously that there will be additional idle timeouts in the final version of the game, they just aren't in the client yet.

Svenn
10-30-2013, 06:25 AM
I've seen this happen, but I think it's more related to the other player crashing or something. I think sometimes it just doesn't recognize that the other player isn't there anymore while you sit there.

Shadowspawn
10-30-2013, 06:41 AM
While this is one instance of who knows what, the suggestion of a time limit per phase of 3-5 minutes is probably a good one that everyone can eventually live with. What is the harm in a limit to truncate griefing issues when they inevitably do occur?

Shadowelf
10-30-2013, 07:12 AM
What we know so far (possibly for beta and beyond);


From what we've been told, there's apparently a 3-minute reconnect timer before you forfeit the game for disconnection.


The timers will start with a specific amount of time (sometimes that you can set on game creation) then count down. For the most part, there won't be timers in dungeons as you can leave a dungeon and then come back and pick up where you left off. There are some dungeons that put you on a timer, however. Raids will have timers to prevent issues. There will also be activity and disconnect timers that run in concert with the normal timer.


Activity timer clocks the amount of time a player has to make an action when they have priority. If they don't make an action after an amount of time they get a pop up warning, if they still don't make an action after an amount of time they lose the match. Disconnect timer is similar, but it will give more time to the player, and notify their opponent of how much time has elapsed.

If this happens during raids, you or the disconnected person will be replaced by AI

If this happens during a match, and you haven't been re-connected till the timer runs out, you will lose the match

(http://www.thehexvault.com/blog/2013/09/02/dragoncon-2013-hextcg-pve-design-panel/ check 0:46:10)

Dearthort
10-30-2013, 09:31 AM
Am I the only one who has noticed that there is already a turn timer? Under the timers on the left there are half white circles. They are turn timers that last about 3 minutes and if yours go out, you lose. Maybe they're not working in alpha. If not, report it.

e: check out the beginning of:
http://www.twitch.tv/hextcg/b/412717902
The timer seemed a little wonky. Cory didn't lose until about a minute after the timer went out, and the timer didn't start until 6 minutes of the game clock had passed. Maybe it's an afk and not strictly a turn clock?

Shadowelf
10-30-2013, 02:06 PM
Another response by Shaqattaq on griefing;


I can say that if people think they're going to commonly disconnect in an attempt to come back later and win, or if they plan to sit on their timer to grief people, or if they plan to use secondary lowbie accounts to keep their collection safe while they grief people, well, I can (with some amount of regret) say I know the vast majority of online TCG trolls and griefers from my playing days so I've seen it all. We'll be focused on those issues and any others that arise.

FLOWDANGO
10-30-2013, 02:13 PM
At this point in the game, it is WAY more likely that this was bug related than anything else.

I agree with this, most likely bug related due to the fact no stats are associated with accounts yet, so no incentive to leave a match in precaution of damaging stats and scores.

BUT! A great point is brought up here, I do not want people dropping out of intense games by shutting off towers or doing a hard break that messes up the game so the deserving player gets stats not known for a game well played. I am not the type to do this type of thing, but I am the type this would happen to.

So maybe CZE will outline the measures in place to battle this type of unsportsman like behavior.

hex_colin
10-30-2013, 02:21 PM
If this is the bar for griefing... the AI griefs me ALL THE F'ING TIME!!!! ;)

What's Will going to do about that? ;)


[More seriously... Far fewer pass priority issues since the latest patch though :)]

Blowfeld
10-30-2013, 04:09 PM
Either way I don't know what to do about this player, as I'm the type of person who assumes the best of people.

After all these years reading stuff on the internet, I admire people who keep such a positive attitude :)

McKizz
11-04-2013, 12:51 AM
Either way I don't know what to do about this player, as I'm the type of person who assumes the best of people.
After all these years reading stuff on the internet, I admire people who keep such a positive attitude :)


I feel this way about the Hex community thus far. From GenCon to the in-game interactions, and even mostly on the forums, I've had positive encounters with the Hex Community and I hope it stays that way.

Granted, seeing some of the KickStarter comments on update posts (from the presumed slacker-backer tier about not being let into Alpha yet) makes me somewhat fearful of what future invites will bring.

Back to the matter at hand... I think the cursor-movement idea is a good one. Maybe a 2-min timer with no cursor activity, or no clicking activity, could resolve this. I feel like this could become a bigger issue in the future when players. It's immature and annoying, and it happens all the time in online games. (World of Warcraft Pet Battles, Yahoo checkers, etc.)

zaril
11-04-2013, 03:52 PM
Well, some of us are old and never getting wiser, and thus just keep being jolly and friendly no matter what we're faced with. ;)

Also, my friend's Hex crashed today, we were on comms so he told me and I waited. I figured this is the perfect time to alpha-test if my friend can get back into the game, while I waited it looked like the other player was just stalling his turn. I remembered this thread and thought, this is probably what happened, but after about 20-30 seconds I got a Victory screen so I guess they have some sort of trigger that checks if the person disconnected/crashed etc. It could still maybe have not been triggered or any other reason, but yes, you definitely need to make sure people can't abuse sitting for 30 minutes, because 9 out of 10 won't be patient enough and you'll have tactics that actually win you most games that is just plain "griefing". Atleast there needs to be a type of game eventually that forces you to atleast finish your turn within x minutes.

Gwaer
11-04-2013, 05:27 PM
There used to not be a victory screen after something like this, glad its been added.

Crimvel
11-06-2013, 05:18 AM
If I remember correctly in the first Beta release of Hearthstone there was a bug:
When you concede while your turn is still going the game "continued" for the other player. So I think it's was just a gamestopping bug.

Indormi
11-06-2013, 06:32 AM
If I remember correctly in the first Beta release of Hearthstone there was a bug:
When you concede while your turn is still going the game "continued" for the other player. So I think it's was just a gamestopping bug.
This happened to me once when I was playing a friend a few weeks ago, he lost his connection for a sec, and still saw the timer going down as it didnt froze the game or anything. Of course he couldnt recconect but as we were on skype he just told me that he was out of the game, so I just surrendered and played again. Maybe this is what happened to you.

Rydavim
11-06-2013, 01:21 PM
During Alpha, it is going to be very difficult to discern griefing from bugs and crashes. I'm inclined to chalk this up to a bug or a crash, since that seems much more likely. Although unfortunate, you having nothing to lose at this point by leaving the game.

In my first alpha match a couple of weeks ago, I crashed out of the client completely about 3/4 of the way through. Barring an exceptional draw, my opponent was likely to win in the next couple turns. I ended up being able to get in touch with him via chat once I got the client back up, but it could have easily ended up in a situation similar to yours.

I can imagine this would be very frustrating, but I hope he would not have thought I was intentionally griefing him. I prefer to assume the best of people, particularlly during an early testing build. I hope others do the same for me. :)

Ertzi
11-06-2013, 04:55 PM
I hate the idea of an activity timer for every turn. There better not be any such nonsense in PvE. I want to be able to play leisurely, without clothes (although this does not have a huge impact on time), while eating all kinds of goodies and not stressing about having to constantly move my mouse or something. I can't be the only one.

Concede timer for entire match has to be in PvP unfortunately, because idiots exist.

Shadowelf
11-06-2013, 05:16 PM
I hate the idea of an activity timer for every turn. There better not be any such nonsense in PvE. I want to be able to play leisurely, without clothes (although this does not have a huge impact on time), while eating all kinds of goodies and not stressing about having to constantly move my mouse or something. I can't be the only one.

Concede timer for entire match has to be in PvP unfortunately, because idiots exist.

Don't worry, timers in pve will only be an exception


Additionally, most dungeons won't have timers (who cares if you make the AI wait). However, some dungeons will have a timer as part of the dungeon mechanic. But that is the exception.