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Erep
11-02-2013, 03:03 PM
I was wondering why we are no longer prompted to modify the order in which mandatory effects take place.
In general I know it doesn't matter what order inspire triggers go off, or which scrivener activates first, but I was really disappointed I couldn't activate my protectorate defender "when this troop enters play" gem effect before the inspire effects so that the defender effect resolved last, with larger stats.

Was this just the source of bugs that will be dealt with later, or is a strategic option being removed and done in a predetermined way?

I really hope it is something that will come back...

SacrificialToast
11-02-2013, 05:42 PM
I'm not sure if something did change, but the 2 abilities you mentioned don't actually trigger simultaneously. Inspire effects trigger as the troop is entering play. "When this troop enters play" effects trigger immediately after the troop hits the battlefield.

Erep
11-02-2013, 07:32 PM
I take, "as this troop enters play" and "as a troop enters play" to be at the same time. But regardless in your example, wouldnt inspire triggers go off in an earlier stack anyways then?

But more generally, it would be nice to have more control over that stuff. (Alternatively, there is interesting deck design elements and issues you have to play around if it is not allowed to be altered, but I very much prefer more control in this case.)

Ebynfel
11-03-2013, 08:13 PM
I am pretty sure that the enters the battlefield would trigger first(as an active ability to start the chain. Bringing the troop into play), and the inspire behind(reactive to the troop entering play, this building more links on the chain) which would have then, technically, resolved first in this situation. I know there are some stack/chain/whatever things that seem off. But we dont have the official rules yet do we? It would be hard to tell if these are supposed to resolve i na specific fashion, or if it was intent. But to me, it makes sense that the enters play hits(troop wont get inspired if interrupted would it?), followed by the inspire as responses.

SealFate
11-03-2013, 09:56 PM
The use of "As (something enters play)" means while it is in the process of entering play. Powers at this point usually do not use the chain.
The use of "When (something enter play)" means it has finished entering play and is now in play. Powers at this point trigger and use the chain.
This difference was used in previous CZE tcg games and I assume will be used with Hex.

Erep
11-03-2013, 11:02 PM
SealFate, so you think it is resolving the opposite of the way that it should?

Inspire should activate and resolve (Those are As effects)
Then Gem should activate and resolve (which is a when effect)

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Regardless of this particular example, I still think it is strange that for actually simultaneous effects, you can't choose the order. Cards like Uruunaz and Prophet of Lodegan I am sure will run into similar resolutions where more interesting plays can be made with the options.

SealFate
11-04-2013, 01:00 PM
SealFate, so you think it is resolving the opposite of the way that it should?

Inspire should activate and resolve (Those are As effects)
Then Gem should activate and resolve (which is a when effect)

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Regardless of this particular example, I still think it is strange that for actually simultaneous effects, you can't choose the order. Cards like Uruunaz and Prophet of Lodegan I am sure will run into similar resolutions where more interesting plays can be made with the options.

No That's the opposite of what I said. Inspire happens before the troop enters play so can not be responded to. You can respond to the troop on the chain but not Inspire.
So far I've always been able to order Simultaneous triggered powers.

Ebynfel
11-05-2013, 10:08 AM
No That's the opposite of what I said. Inspire happens before the troop enters play so can not be responded to. You can respond to the troop on the chain but not Inspire.
So far I've always been able to order Simultaneous triggered powers.

With that logic(As being before When), it would require 2 different steps. Thus, the inspire triggers on "As it enters" and resolves, and then the "When it enters" would trigger after the inspire triggers were finished, yielding the same results we expect that the inspire resolution comes first.

Zophie
11-06-2013, 12:15 AM
With that logic(As being before When), it would require 2 different steps. Thus, the inspire triggers on "As it enters" and resolves, and then the "When it enters" would trigger after the inspire triggers were finished, yielding the same results we expect that the inspire resolution comes first.

There are two different events happening, but are they really part of a chain? Wouldn't these just be two separate events (as it enters play and when it's entered play), each with their own individual actions occurring during each event?

It'll be helpful to get a copy of the rulebook when they release it, these subtle mechanical nuances are so interesting :)

Erep
11-06-2013, 02:02 AM
And to add a bit of complexity to this issue, Legionnaire of Gawaine says "When this troop enters play, for each card that Inspired it, it deals 1 damage to each opposing champion and troop." For that to resolve at all, As effects, including inspire would have to occur and resolve before When effects like Protectorate Defender and Legionnaire of Gawaine.

Oaka23
11-06-2013, 03:41 AM
You SHOULD be getting the inspire bonus before the when x enters play ability. "As" effects are (assuming mtg rules) applied immediately and without hitting the chain at all - no actual effect has to resolve to give the bonus, the card just is +whatever as soon as it is played. The defender should have the +0/+1 before the gem ability even has a chance to trigger. It's just not working that way atm.

mtg e.g.: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220147

When you play that guy, before he hits the stack, you name a creature type. Let's say goblin. When he hits the stack, he is already considered a goblin, so if your opponent had some weird "counter target goblin spell" card, he could play it against the automaton.