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Bossett
11-03-2013, 03:53 PM
For all I know, this may be a feature in alpha, but with the discussions going on around statistical validity of deck sorting, etc. - I would really like to be able to get my hands on some of the data to model things, do histories, etc.

The wow combat logs were really useful to draw out points for improvement, etc. - and the ability to combine logs from multiple people to get a full picture was particularly helpful. What I'm envisioning is something similar for Hex, where tool authors can let you upload your logs to give you some insights.

This would also be really cool to do 'replays' and the like, to describe games without having to play back a video or reply.

jetah
11-03-2013, 09:30 PM
I understand combat logs for an MMO like WoW because there are dps/heal/HP checks. I just don't see where it'd help someone play better in a TCG when the cards you draw are done by chance.

With WoW, you can see if a person had lower dps which is why a boss couldn't be killed or that a healer wasn't healing at a particular amount. I'm just trying to see how this translates to how you draw from your deck when playing.

Bossett
11-03-2013, 10:10 PM
You'd be able to go after stats you can't get from a deck builder - 'How long does my <big scary troop> last, on average?', 'How often do I have enough resources to play <card something> after account for acceleration and opponent actions?'.

It also means you can look back at your plays and see if there's anything you could have done better, and give us a way of quickly sharing games on forums like this (copy/paste easier than linking to a vid/replay download).

(There is also a PvE part to this, so you can use them for the traditional wow raid stuff.)

Niedar
11-03-2013, 10:14 PM
I understand combat logs for an MMO like WoW because there are dps/heal/HP checks. I just don't see where it'd help someone play better in a TCG when the cards you draw are done by chance.

With WoW, you can see if a person had lower dps which is why a boss couldn't be killed or that a healer wasn't healing at a particular amount. I'm just trying to see how this translates to how you draw from your deck when playing.

Let me give you can example. On average in a particular format what turn is the game won or lost by or how many resources are in play. For draft, what is the game win % for particular cards. There are a ton of interesting statistics to be had from good logging.

hex_colin
11-03-2013, 10:59 PM
For all I know, this may be a feature in alpha, but with the discussions going on around statistical validity of deck sorting, etc. - I would really like to be able to get my hands on some of the data to model things, do histories, etc.

The wow combat logs were really useful to draw out points for improvement, etc. - and the ability to combine logs from multiple people to get a full picture was particularly helpful. What I'm envisioning is something similar for Hex, where tool authors can let you upload your logs to give you some insights.

This would also be really cool to do 'replays' and the like, to describe games without having to play back a video or reply.

They've already committed to doing this - providing a mechanism for replaying past games. As long as they also make the data available outside of the UI somehow, everything people are asking for in this thread will be possible.

Shadowelf
11-04-2013, 12:19 PM
I'm all in for a combat log feature but, just like Colin said, there will a playback support which might be a better option


Have you ever had that game where you pulled off the improbable? Won a major event? Or had your combo go off to devastating effect? Now you’ll be able to relive those incredible moments and even share them with others! The Playback feature will let you review your recent matches, save the ones you like to your game archive, share them to other who visit your profile, and share them via social media. That game may have just been a moment in time, but now you'll have a record of it forever! May your legend spread far and wide.

update #12 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/hex-mmo-trading-card-game/posts?page=9

In addition there will be deck statistics, for those that love to test/view their decks' perfomance in numbers

Costs: See the costs and thresholds of all of the cards in your deck. Find the right ratio of costs that will make your deck tick!
Ratios: See how your deck breaks down. What ratio of your deck is resources? What about troops? Find the right mix of card types by selecting ratio and see what spread of cards you’ve got lined up.
Resources: What types of resources does your deck need to function? This feature lets you see the exact breakdown of resources that your deck currently has.
Performance: Curious to see how your deck is performing? You can see your total wins, losses, and win percentage with the deck.
And then there’s my favorite part of the Deck Statistics feature:

The Test Draw feature is hands-down one of my favorite elements of the Deck Editor. You not only get a chance to look at all sorts of statistics about your deck, but you can tweak things here and there and see how it plays out with a few simple clicks!

http://hextcg.com/data-editor-paradise/

Zarien
11-04-2013, 12:32 PM
I'm for a playback function and statistics, i don't think I would want an active combat log while the game is playing. MAYBE in PvE because of raids and stuff for analyzing, definitely not in PvP.

Bossett
11-04-2013, 05:24 PM
This isn't really about replays and replaying, and I'm aware of the features they want in the deck editor.

I want to be able to look at the stats in a way that lets me combine them with other players, I want to be able to get stats about things that CZE (and anyone else yet) hasn't thought of (do all my losses happen at a similar hand-size?) and I want to be able to tell things about my actual play, not just my deck and deck stats (do I always hang onto card x too long?). There's a lot of possibility here.

(And Zarien, I don't think it'd be an issue - if you don't want to see the log, just hide it - can manage it the way wow does and put it both in a tab and give you the option to output to a text file.)

hex_colin
11-04-2013, 05:29 PM
This isn't really about replays and replaying, and I'm aware of the features they want in the deck editor.

I want to be able to look at the stats in a way that lets me combine them with other players, I want to be able to get stats about things that CZE (and anyone else yet) hasn't thought of (do all my losses happen at a similar hand-size?) and I want to be able to tell things about my actual play, not just my deck and deck stats (do I always hang onto card x too long?). There's a lot of possibility here.

(And Zarien, I don't think it'd be an issue - if you don't want to see the log, just hide it - can manage it the way wow does and put it both in a tab and give you the option to output to a text file.)

You're maybe missing the point. To be able to do a replay of a game, you'd need to store data about the exact state of the game at every point in that game - what cards you had in had, what you played when, etc. You have all of the information you're asking for as long as CZE exposes it outside of the replay engine. Also, you'd potentially have all sorts of actual timing information too - time between plays, time to pass priority, etc.

mudkip
11-04-2013, 05:37 PM
Combat logs would be a nice way to export the data and do funky stuff in other applications that the community make. Combat logs seem like the first step to Replays anyway.

Bossett
11-04-2013, 05:41 PM
[...] as long as CZE exposes it outside of the replay engine.

Hence this feature request - that we have the data exposed outside the game, in a text combat log (but ok, it doesn't need to be text, though text or XML or the like would be the best option for interoperability).

Niedar
11-04-2013, 05:43 PM
It doesn't really matter to me what format it is in as long as it is not some type of undocumented binary protocol.