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poizonous
11-24-2013, 08:42 PM
Constantly ever since this card came out, all I hear is "OMG, NERF!!!" "OP" "This card should cost 5"

Come on people. I am honestly sick of hearing it. I defend the card to no end because EVERYONE seems to have a problem with the card.

First off, this card is far from OP, every shard has an answer to it, actually every shard has multiple answers to this card.

Secondly, not every card in the set has to be nerfed to the same power rating. Some cards will be stronger than others, that is how TCG's are.

Third, people tell me not to compare this to MtG but the truth is this game is the beautiful offspring of MtG. Vampire Nighthawk 3 cost 2/3 Flying, Lifelink, Deathtouch. This card is much more powerful and guess what in Magic this card was uncommon and common. Spearcliff Cloud Knight is a rare and deserves higher power ratings than commons and uncommons.

Finally to wrap this up I just want to add 1 more thing. If this card does get nerfed to a 2/2 or 4 cost 3/2 it will be only because of the whiners and I would consider not even playing it at a 4 cost. Personally I hope CZE stops catering to all the complainers, I understand they are trying to appease their community but giving in to the new players wont always help your following with the experienced players.

HellsingDS
11-24-2013, 09:21 PM
I also think its's ridiculously op for its cost... why you don't I have no idea. Sure there are counters, every creature has the same counter, but its the value that's the issue here. Now, maybe if you took away its vigilance then it might be able to get away with it...

jtatta
11-24-2013, 09:24 PM
I'm pretty sure that the card is pretty fair. At least in my opinion. It has evasion but it killed by literally everything and trades with a lot of troops as well. Is it good? Yes, it's very good. Is there a problem with that? No, some cards are just better than others. I think it's a well designed card. It -IS- two diamond threshold after all.

MythicFishmom
11-24-2013, 09:25 PM
A) Appreciate you naming it correctly
B) You are 100% correct. The card is fine. It's powerful but definitely not op

poizonous
11-24-2013, 09:27 PM
The difference is this Hellsing, there are so many cards to deal with a 3/2 body, I have never heard so much bickering over a 3 mana cost card with a 3/2 body. Just because there are currently no cards better than this at 3 cost doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. Just look forward to future sets coming out with equally powered cards at the resource cost of the card.

poizonous
11-24-2013, 09:29 PM
Mr Tatta and John Snow. Glad I have some supporters =)

HellsingDS
11-24-2013, 09:31 PM
its not the fact its a 3/2 that's the issue. Its the fact its a 3/2 flier... check all the other colours and you'll be hard pressed to find an equal flier at that cost. To top it off it has both lifedrain AND vigilance.

As a 3/2 flier its fine but when you add even more onto it beyond that the power balance tips over. A little can be forgiven but with two extra abilities its crossing the line.

poizonous
11-24-2013, 09:33 PM
So Your thought process is that no card should be superior to other types of cards? You want every card to be plain, vanilla, and mediocre?

Transparent
11-24-2013, 09:39 PM
I think the magic number for the card is the 2 health. So many cards can handle with that it balances out. I don't even think it needs steadfast because you'll rarely block with the card. But, I digress, the card is fine where it is at.

HellsingDS
11-24-2013, 09:42 PM
Read it again, I clearly said a little bit of a power imbalance can be forgiven...

Seriously, if I was able to play right now I'd be making a blue/white deck with spellshield/stoneskin and either offensive control spells or creature buffs. That creature would be a serious power joke within such a deck, especially when you consider the amount of fliers other players generally use.

dachewster99
11-24-2013, 11:15 PM
right now all flight is over powered becaues yes there are cards that counter flight, however, you have to DRAW them by CHANCE, so even if u have 4 of them, and u have 60 cards in your deck, you still dont have GREAT odds at getting it, or getting it multiple times to take down all of their flyers. eventually i guess they will fix this by giving cards reach, but even then, too many cards have flight IMO even for cards to have reach to make much effect

poizonous
11-24-2013, 11:30 PM
right now all flight is over powered becaues yes there are cards that counter flight, however, you have to DRAW them by CHANCE, so even if u have 4 of them, and u have 60 cards in your deck, you still dont have GREAT odds at getting it, or getting it multiple times to take down all of their flyers. eventually i guess they will fix this by giving cards reach, but even then, too many cards have flight IMO even for cards to have reach to make much effect

Nor do you have great odds at getting the strong flight troop so your argument is very invalid.

SacrificialToast
11-24-2013, 11:47 PM
Baneslayer Angel also had First Strike, making it hard to beat in straight combat. I don't think this is nearly as big of a problem.

Bloodiron
11-25-2013, 12:10 AM
The troop is fine as is. I would be very dismayed if it was nerfed for no reason.

I am sure the designers tested it at 3/3, found it was too powerful, and lowered it to 3/2 so as to give Ruby a more balanced chance to destroy it if it became a problem in those match-ups. Ruby would have been the only Shard to be hard pressed to find an answer to it. Blood can flat out kill it, Wild has Turbulence, Diamond has Repel and Inner Conflict, and Sapphire has Time Ripple, Buccaneer and Countermagic. And I'm sure there are more cards to come for answers in all Shards.

Derringer
11-25-2013, 12:43 AM
right now all flight is over powered becaues yes there are cards that counter flight, however, you have to DRAW them by CHANCE, so even if u have 4 of them, and u have 60 cards in your deck, you still dont have GREAT odds at getting it, or getting it multiple times to take down all of their flyers. eventually i guess they will fix this by giving cards reach, but even then, too many cards have flight IMO even for cards to have reach to make much effect
So... too many cards have flight? Then, what's the problem with blocking troops with flight, if there are so many to choose from? Just run a few troops that fly. Or run removal.

hammer
11-25-2013, 01:14 AM
I like the card I think it is fair in the context of Set 1 look at 3cc troops in other colours

Wild: Wild Root Dancer, Crash of Beasts (yeah yeah not a troop per se)
Blood: Xentoth's Inquisitor
Ruby: Lord Alexander, Gem-Crazed Berserker
Sapphire: Pheonix Guard Trainer, Buccaneer

A_e-n
11-25-2013, 01:41 AM
I think the card is fine and I'm glad it's here; diamond needed some love and it got it with this card.


I think the magic number for the card is the 2 health. So many cards can handle with that it balances out. I don't even think it needs steadfast because you'll rarely block with the card. But, I digress, the card is fine where it is at.

The 2 health is key. Putting it within Burn range makes it a lot more balanced.


"It has evasion but it killed by literally everything and trades with a lot of troops as well. Is it good? Yes, it's very good." ... "I think it's a well designed card. It -IS- two diamond threshold after all."

Agreed, especially on the points of its threshold; If it were just one diamond, then yeah, I could see cause for alarm, but trying to splash this card in a dual-color+ lessens the value of it significantly.

Resand
11-25-2013, 03:43 AM
I like the card I think it is fair in the context of Set 1 look at 3cc troops in other colours

Wild: Wild Root Dancer, Crash of Beasts (yeah yeah not a troop per se)
Blood: Xentoth's Inquisitor
Ruby: Lord Alexander, Gem-Crazed Berserker
Sapphire: Pheonix Guard Trainer, Buccaneer

Agreed. The 3 cost spot is very powerful for all shards. It's not like you'll see a bunch of these in limited.

HyenaNipples
11-25-2013, 06:11 AM
It took me a moment to figure out what card you're talking about. I had no idea anyone would consider that card OP.

It's a 3/2.... I've faced it in over 10 games with several different decks and never even considered it a challenge. It's one of those cards you keep your removals around for. Burn, Murder, Sapper's Charge, Inner Conflict, Persecute, Time Ripple, Buccaneer.. the list is rather long.

Eierdotter
11-25-2013, 06:37 AM
it looks very strong, but compared to a root dancer, inquisitor or veteran gladiator, it is just another good 3drop.

Hieronymous
11-25-2013, 08:16 AM
I think I'll make up my own names for all the cards too! I think the Fruity Pebble is waaay overpowered!

Seriously though it took me a while to figure out what card you were even talking about -- I had to look up "baneslayer" online and not every card with a horse on it needs to be called "pony." I've also never heard anyone complain about the card in question.

Vorpal
11-25-2013, 08:37 AM
This is the spearcliff cloud knight, yes?

That card is fine. If it was 4 cost it would be abysmally bad. 4 for a 3/2 body? Nope.

2 health makes it vulnerable to all kinds of removal/burn spells - and it will be killed by many many 2 attack 2 drops.

I've seen them taken out routinely by living totems given flying, for example.

I think it's a decent card that diamond badly needed.

jtatta
11-25-2013, 09:24 AM
Might as well nerf Wild Root Dancer, Buccaneer, Lord Alexander, and Veteran Gladiator too since those are "too powerful" three cost Troops.

Some cards are better than others, guys. If you nerf the best cards to be more "fair" then that means the cards that were borderline good become the best cards and people will complain about that. You see where this is going? I really don't understand why people aren't raging for a Wild Root Dancer nerf and instead are worried about a 3/2 with some sweet abilities, WITH DOUBLE THRESHOLD. IN DIAMOND.

/facepalm

stiii
11-25-2013, 11:22 AM
I think I'll make up my own names for all the cards too! I think the Fruity Pebble is waaay overpowered!

Seriously though it took me a while to figure out what card you were even talking about -- I had to look up "baneslayer" online and not every card with a horse on it needs to be called "pony." I've also never heard anyone complain about the card in question.

Fruity Pebbles is a way better magic deck

havocattack
11-25-2013, 12:57 PM
it looks very strong, but compared to a root dancer, inquisitor or veteran gladiator, it is just another good 3drop.

This be true.

Xenavire
11-25-2013, 01:54 PM
Seriously, in a meta that can drop a 6/6 invcible trampler on turn 3, this card is fairly tame. Plus Diamond was in desperate need of a turn 3 drop, and for a shard that needs evasion to be able to play well right now, its a godsend. Just blame the over-use of it right now for all these complainers - a week or two ago the big threat was the fist and escalation (which both got nerfed, might I add.)

And seriously, with the millions of ways to counter it right now, the complaints really are just whiners by and large. It is a little strong for it's budget, but it is no-where near being broken like a Sol Ring or a Mox or Lotus - its just a troop that is not hard to deal with. It will not over centralise the meta like the Fist is threatening to do, nor is it crazy powerful lategame like the Lord guy that gets +1/+1 for every card in a graveyard. It is just a 3/2 flier than can be dealt with, and easily.

mudkip
11-25-2013, 02:23 PM
Seriously though it took me a while to figure out what card you were even talking about -- I had to look up "baneslayer" online and not every card with a horse on it needs to be called "pony." I've also never heard anyone complain about the card in question.

Yeah, I had to google it too. A lot of these in-jokes fly over the heads of people like me who don't have heaps of Magic experience. Luckily a hextcgpro.com on the card was one of the first google results for "Baneslayer Pony"

OT: Spearcliff Cloud Knight looks fine.

poizonous
11-25-2013, 02:41 PM
I think I'll make up my own names for all the cards too! I think the Fruity Pebble is waaay overpowered!

Seriously though it took me a while to figure out what card you were even talking about -- I had to look up "baneslayer" online and not every card with a horse on it needs to be called "pony." I've also never heard anyone complain about the card in question.

Funny how this post has 20+ posts from different users and only 1 or 2 failed to know what card it was. And I believe in my original post I did somewhat distinguish the real name of the card

poizonous
11-25-2013, 02:42 PM
Spearcliff Cloud Knight is a rare and deserves higher power ratings than commons and uncommons.

Just to verify I did name the card in the original post

Kilikaji
11-25-2013, 03:09 PM
Im not saying it overpowered and needs to be changed, but it is possible that they had gotten the spearcliff knight partially mixed up with the phoenix guard aeronaut

Before the last patch the phoenix guard aeronaut was a 5 cost, 3/3, with flight steadfast lifedrain. In the most recent patchnotes they stated that the text from the aeronaut was transferred to the spearcliff knight. The new Aeronaut is a 5 cost 3/2, flight, minor socket, which seems to be overcosted. So it may be possible that a few things got mixed up here.

My guess is that the troops were meant to be this:
Phoenix Guard Aeronaut: 3 cost, flight, minor socket, 3/2
Spearcliff Cloud Knight: 5 cost, flight, steadfast, lifedrain, 3/3

Vorpal
11-25-2013, 03:20 PM
This was already addressed - they are of different rarities and this is a big deal for drafting.

The sets are balanced around drafting.

I think spearcliff cloud knight at 5 cost would be abysmally bad.

I think the aeronaut is also overcosted in constructed, but as stated, it's more of a draft card where flight carries a much higher premium.

Xenavire
11-25-2013, 03:43 PM
Im not saying it overpowered and needs to be changed, but it is possible that they had gotten the spearcliff knight partially mixed up with the phoenix guard aeronaut

Before the last patch the phoenix guard aeronaut was a 5 cost, 3/3, with flight steadfast lifedrain. In the most recent patchnotes they stated that the text from the aeronaut was transferred to the spearcliff knight. The new Aeronaut is a 5 cost 3/2, flight, minor socket, which seems to be overcosted. So it may be possible that a few things got mixed up here.

My guess is that the troops were meant to be this:
Phoenix Guard Aeronaut: 3 cost, flight, minor socket, 3/2
Spearcliff Cloud Knight: 5 cost, flight, steadfast, lifedrain, 3/3

While it is possible, its unlikely. They were listed in the patch notes, not to mention that a minor socket on a rare would be pretty sad. I might believe it was a mixup if it was a major socket, but right now I am going to assume this was completely intended.

Kilikaji
11-25-2013, 03:59 PM
@Vorpal, good points

@Xenavire, Yeah, a rare with a minor socket would be goofy. The phoenix guard aeronaut could have been an uncommon with a socketable minor. So it would be about in line with the nelebrin skirmisher. While the spearcliff cloud knight would be rare, exactly what the old phoenix guard aeronaut was.