PDA

View Full Version : Fulmination! Ruby/Sapphire Mill from Team Spicy Brews!



Ritter
11-27-2013, 06:31 PM
For a while now, Team Spicy Brews! has been providing video content through our youtube channels for the Hex community. We hope everyone has been enjoying the content, but with the holiday weekend coming up I thought it would be nice to kick off my written article series featuring a different deck each week (possibly biweekly) from my youtube video collection.

So, let's start off with the deck!

http://i.imgur.com/QxHZNcSl.png

Incase it's too small for you to see and you aren't familiar with the card images:

4 Chronic Madness
4 Eldritch Dreamer (socketed with Prime Sapphire of Mind)
4 Oracle Song
4 Mastery of Time
2 Burn
4 Heatwave
4 Crimson Clarity
4 Ragefire
4 Cerebral Fulmination
2 Storm Colossus
13 Sapphire Source
11 Ruby Source

This deck is very streamlined, and has some backup plans built in. Let's start off by looking at some of the interactions we have at our disposal by analyzing specific cards one at a time:

Chronic Madness

This card is the backbone to our mill plan. If you've seen someone play a mill deck, or tried one out yourself, I'm sure you ventured down the path of Chronic Madness. It is great at what it does, and does it efficiently. With the update to escalation, we currently get the rate of 4,8,12,16,20 etc., cards milled. This means that in general, we will completely mill out a 60 card deck by the 5th time a Chronic Madness resolves.

Of course, there are going to be times where our opponent has played Pack Raptors or Ancestor's Chosen, so their deck will be bigger than 60... but for the purpose of this article we will assume that if we can force our opponent to go through 60-75 cards, we will win. There will always be oddball decks running 170+ (arbitrarily large deck size) cards, but I will leave it up to you to decide if the possibility of fighting against 170+ card decks is a deal breaker.

The astute out there will realize that we do not run Sabotage, so Chronic Madness has literally 0 value until we officially win the game. Milling 4 or 24 cards will not matter until we win. Of course, there is some value in getting to see our opponents deck composition through their graveyard, but in general Chronic Madness gains us no upfront advantage until the game actually ends from our opponent having no deck left.

Eldritch Dreamer/Cerebral Fulmination/Master of Time

These cards all combine to form our engine. Once it is up and running, the game is as good as over. Play some early Fulminations, lay out an Eldritch Dreamer... stall until you can't wait any longer, and start to take as many extra turns as you can.

Cerebral Fulmination is by definition disparate in its card advantage parity. We play it on our turn, and our opponent gets the first extra card. If they blow it up immediately after that, we gain no advantage and we are out our Fulmination to boot. We must make up for all of this by breaking its symmetrical effect of card drawing. We of course do this by running out as many Fulminations as we can, then by casting Mastery of Time on back to back turns. It is not uncommon to have out 2 Cerebral Fulminations with 2-3 Master of Time in hand. This means we get to draw all those extra cards on our extra turns while our opponent gets to sit there and watch.

Take all this advantage, and combine it with an active Eldritch Dreamer, and we draw yet another extra card over our opponent every time we cast a Mastery of Time. Take a second to think about how many extra cards you will draw with 2 Mastery of Time in your hand with 2 Cerebral Fulminations and an Eldritch Dreamer on board... it's a lot, and they will help draw you into the other Mastery of Times just waiting to be cast.

I wanted to run the Prime Ruby of Intensity in the Eldritch Dreamers... but that particular gem seems to be bugged. It is the ideal gem to run, and if it gets fixed I will definitely be changing it.

The gem SHOULD have each player discard their hand and draw 3 cards. This is great since we get to draw faster into our gas, and it essentially gets 3 cards out of our opponents deck. Instead, the gem currently has each player draw 3 cards THEN discard their hand. I don't really hate this, but since it is obviously not working as intended, I don't plan on taking advantage. We will stick with the Prime Sapphire gem for now.

Oracle Song/Crimson Clarity

These are the support cards that help us dig, and then cast, all our extra cards. Oracle Song gets us through the mid game, helps us draw into more gas in the later game, and can in a pinch be cast to draw our opponent some extra cards in the event they have 2 cards left in their deck.

Crimson Clarity also gets us through the early/mid game to accelerate into Cerebral Fulminations, Dreamers, Mastery of Times, Oracle Songs etc. If turn 4 rolls around and you really needed that second Ruby Threshold to cast Cerebral Fulmination and all of a sudden Crimson Clarity shows up, you are just fine.When the game gets out of control and you are drawing tons of extra cards from our engine described above, Crimson Clarity will help you burn through your hand so you can maximize your source usage each turn without having to discard.

Burn/Ragefire/Heatwave/Storm Colossus

The first 3 on the list are our time buyers. We need to hit turn 5 most likely to win. That's when we start to cast our Mastery of Times, and we get to really take advantage of what our deck can do. Our 10 card removal package allows us to deal with early threats effectively with Heatwave and Burn, and then mid/late game threats with escalated Ragefire.

The Storm Colossus is one of our insurance packages. For those games where our mill plan is out of the question, or our opponent Omen of Oblivioned all of our Chronic Madness', we will need a backup. Ragefire, unblockable Eldritch Dreamers, and Storm Colossus give us a very powerful late game alternative. Combine these with Time Mastery, and our opponents can go from 20 to 0 very quickly. A Storm Colossus + 2 Time Mastery + 1 Burn/Ragefire is 20 damage. This is not out of the question, and just one combination of cards that can lead to huge bursts of damage.

You should also notice that we are completely immune to Heatwave, which is not an accident. There are 0 Ancestor's Chosen in our build so we are never afraid to Heatwave the board away if necessary.

Odds and Ends:

I originally played with Nin, the mill champion. Now, I'm preferring Wyatt, the card drawing champion.

This should not really be a surprise. Our game plan includes alternatives in the event we can't mill out our opponent. I don't want to be stuck with a champion that provides no benefit once our game plan is forced to switch gears.

If we do a quick comparison, after we amass 10 charges:

Nin mills 10 cards (currently bugged and only mills 2 per activation)
Wyatt draws 2 cards

This basically equates to Wyatt drawing us 2 cards that each say "Mill opponent 5 cards". Is that what we really want? Mayhaps. I think in general I would rather draw a random card from our deck than be locked into drawing a card that always mills 5 (assuming we get to activate Wyatt twice in a game). With Mastery of Time, we really don't need to get 10 turns into the game to get a double activation from Wyatt either. We can do a legit 7 turns, and Mastery of Time thrice. This also assumes we don't miss a source drop, but we are hopefully hitting them all.

If you watch my videos that are already posted with this deck, you will notice we are using Nin, and although we successfully mill out a lot of opponents, I'm not sure it was the Nin so much as Chronic Madness and Cerebral Fulminations. I would rather hit 1 Chronic Madness with Wyatt then mill 10 cards with Nin since it will boost up our further Chronic Madness' to game over levels at a much higher speed.

Ritter
11-27-2013, 06:32 PM
For Your Consideration:

This deck runs 0 Sabotage.

You might want to go back and read that again for those naysayers out there.

Sabotage is a great card when it works right, but 4 Sabotage = 16 Booby Traps = 80 Damage. Do I approve? Kinda.

There are no shortage of people running cards that gain them life, make them temporarily Immortal(ity), and mess with our mill plan. Until they die from Booby Traps, Sabotage does nothing. When I cast it, it has no impact on the board, and doesn't contribute to me not dying before they draw enough cards to make us dead. If I can't mill them for whatever reason, I might be stuck casting Sabotages that will be more or less irrelevant unless they randomly draw them over the course of a long game. I would rather go with a pure mill plan with a back up incase of emergency, than run 4x of a card that happens to kill them while I'm already winning the game. If we put in 4x Sabotage, we are either cutting a card that buys us time and helps us from losing to an early swarm, or we are cutting a card that is part of our late game engine to actually win. With 4x Chronic Madness already doing nothing unless we actually manage to mill them out, I prefer to cut down on the nonessential, win-more cards, and Sabotage feels like a win-more card almost every time. If you plan on picking up the deck, try it out however you like, but I think after a few games without Sabotage you won't miss it.

You might also be sitting there wondering why I spend so much time fussing over an alternate game plan in the event we can't mill our opponent out. This really wasn't a consideration until this most recent patch. While we have no sideboards, people are going to play main deck Omen Of Oblivion, and we will have no chance to interact with it in just one game matches. Therefore, we have to be proactive and work within our constraints. Rather than play Countermagic which might hit their Omens, I would rather force them to deal with a totally different variety of threat in Storm Colossus, something that is already very hard to deal with due to its evasion with flight, and its built in protection with spellshield. Countermagic sounds great, but in our deck, we really shouldn't have time to hang back and counter random threats while our opponent has a ton of cards in hand to cast. We will never win the one-for-one race, we can only hope to delay the game using one-for-ones. I would rather delay the game using Burn and Ragefire which also contribute to our alternate game plan on damaging them out with Colossus.

In Conclusion:

This deck was a blast to play, and although this current list is slightly different than what is in the videos currently posted, it is very similar and should provide a great viewing experience for people who have some extra time this holiday break. In the future, I will hopefully be able to provide a sideboarding guide and daily events to show continuity between games... but for now, we work with what we got.

This kind of article is not what you see in most Hex posts, but it is what most professional level content resembles for other Hex-like games (MTG in particular). I am a huge fan of MTG, and have been playing for 18 years. I know the content I love to read and absorb in my free time, so I am going to try my best to emulate that sort of content for our Hex community members. Please give support to the other people who write great content, and stream on Twitch. These people have no incentive to spend their time creating content for you unless you let them know how much you appreciate it.

Team Spicy Brews! would also like to mention all the great work Soldack has been doing within our Hex community, specifically his work on the Tournament of Streamers. Beeph nor myself really do any streaming, as we prefer to provide recorded game content for specific brews, so you won't be seeing us during these tournaments. This doesn't mean you can't see us hard at work though! Be sure to check out ChannelBeepharoni (http://www.youtube.com/user/ChannelBeepharoni) and ChannelRitter (http://www.youtube.com/user/ChannelRitter) on youtube (check our signatures as well) for all our content. We are constantly adding new videos to see.

I will leave you with a quick link section to all the videos from my playlist for this deck. Be sure to check out the other videos there, and keep an eye out for some new videos with the updated list from this article!

Fulmination Deck Tech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-RcJO_pPuk&list=PLgWXVcTP5gzUeAT_-WgURLJD5cHwAb3UN&index=1)
Fulmination - Game 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SuPR7wA12k&list=PLgWXVcTP5gzUeAT_-WgURLJD5cHwAb3UN&index=2)
Fulmination - Game 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrfCI19sCjg&list=PLgWXVcTP5gzUeAT_-WgURLJD5cHwAb3UN&index=3)
Fulmination - Game 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hyx63BBS9A&list=PLgWXVcTP5gzUeAT_-WgURLJD5cHwAb3UN&index=4)
Fulmination - Game 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cenhpjt5TYM&list=PLgWXVcTP5gzUeAT_-WgURLJD5cHwAb3UN&index=5)
Fulmination - Game 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUfOVKvoPxA&list=PLgWXVcTP5gzUeAT_-WgURLJD5cHwAb3UN&index=6)
Fulmination - Game 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz6uZlAqt4Y&list=PLgWXVcTP5gzUeAT_-WgURLJD5cHwAb3UN&index=7)

Simo46
11-27-2013, 07:49 PM
This is the sort of more in-depth Hex content I have been craving, great stuff. Seems like a really cool deck idea. Do you plan on running Reginald Lancaster when he becomes available?

Ritter
11-27-2013, 08:27 PM
This is the sort of more in-depth Hex content I have been craving, great stuff. Seems like a really cool deck idea. Do you plan on running Reginald Lancaster when he becomes available?

I would love to have an answer for you, but it is extremely hard to look into the future of the Hex alpha, and future deck design at this point. Seeing how so few changes can completely change the landscape of deck design from week to week, it is nearly impossible to determine how even one card coming in can change everyone's decks.

There are a ton of cards I would love to be able to test with, and I could really go crazy with like just 10 random cards being added to the current pool. This deck would be unplayable without Mastery of Time, so this kind of build was just a random musing before this latest patch added it to the card pool.

To try and answer your question specifically though without dancing around the build constraints currently involved in an alpha, I don't even know what Reginald Lancaster does. I'm attempting to look the card up on various card databases but I'm coming up blank! Let me know and I can tell you my thoughts about it though =p

Thanks for checking out the article!

Gorstagg
11-28-2013, 08:31 AM
I only use gems on AI battles. Since they are verboten in regular pvp games, I don't use them against players. So in that vein I switched out the eldritch dreamers for two surge mechanisms and two Stormcalls in order to keep my enemy exhausted until I get enough heatwaves.

Ritter
11-28-2013, 08:55 AM
I only use gems on AI battles. Since they are verboten in regular pvp games, I don't use them against players. So in that vein I switched out the eldritch dreamers for two surge mechanisms and two Stormcalls in order to keep my enemy exhausted until I get enough heatwaves.

Who said they were verboten? The Tournament of Streamers allows 4x of any one gem, and I'm not sure I've seen any other talk about certain gems being banned from PVP games.

I do like Stormcall. I temporarily had one copy in the deck to try it out, but overall I didn't love it in this particular build of the deck. Surge Mech is nice, as is Hex Engine. Not sure if one might be better than others. I do still find that my Dreamer never gets to connect since people just have no choice but to save their removal for him (there's no other targets for removal in our deck).

escapeRoute
11-28-2013, 09:44 AM
i dont really like it.. u are very vulnerable to both countermagic, curse of oblivion and spellshield... u also have little to none board wipes except for heath wave.. wich isnt a great one... i would change those 4 extra turn cards for 4 countermagics anyday to make up, at least a little, for those weaknesses

those are my biggest concerns bout this deck, still, it seems nice to play with that change and it is really similar to my immortal spear deck :D

i actually love sabotage, it doesnt affect the board istantlyu but it gives u a second or a 3rd winning condition and with the cerebral in play, with a decent control deck, u should be able to have more often than not answers for ur opponent threats... unless u are really unlucky and u draw 3 of them in a row before the cerebral...

i can see a deck living without it anyway, cause its a situational card, but the counterspell... i really think that this deck need it hard

Ritter
11-28-2013, 09:51 AM
Curse of Oblivion being a problem is part of the backup plan package that was mentioned several times in the article. Spellshield troops consist of a 1/2 wild troop, a 6/6 flyer in sapphire, and a 3/4 in diamond. My removal isn't meant for late game threats like the latter 2, but for early troops that are an issue. Heatwave will kill the 1/2 spellshield wild troop, and the other 2 mentioned come out late enough that they won't have a chance to swing more than once or twice.

Countermagic can be a problem, but what do they counter? They will have to make quick decisions about what they value, and how it impacts the run of the game. Countering a Chronic Madness is decent, but then Ragefires can very quickly get out of hand. Do they counter Fulmination? That would be my idea for first card to get countered, as it really is the backbone of this deck in conjunction with Mastery of Time.

Mastery of Time is hands down the best card in this deck. I can only believe you watched none of the videos, and have not played against me in game. If you have, you would realize how silly it sounds to take it out of the deck. I talked in depth about its crucial place in this decks functioning, and how Countermagic is fine, but not where this deck wants to be.

escapeRoute
11-28-2013, 10:11 AM
the ragefire getting out of hand would be a new for me... u will need it to control the board in the beginning and before killing ur opponent... it will take time.. a lot

i dunno, even with the cerebral in game i hadrly was ever able to use it more than 4 times, and the first 3 i was forced to use them on creatures to control the board (not with this deck, with a deck of mine)...

i must admit i didnt watch the videos, but im really skeptical bout the ragefire being anything else than a board controller... i will have to watch the videos hoping to be proved wrong

i can see the mastery of time being usefull, with the cerebrals u get an extra turn and 2 extra cards to play against ur opponents (wich means possibly extra madnesses and ragefires.. but... dunno)

against this deck i would actually only counter the chronic madness.. i feel the ragefires can be outrun pretty easily by any decent aggro deck (in my experiences) and the heatwaves arent really enough to deal with those decks.. u know what, i will actually give it a try to see how it really works and then ill come back... i like the idea, i really love these kind of decks but im not really sure it can work fast enough

Ritter
11-28-2013, 10:18 AM
You have to also remember, the decks that are running Countermagic are the exact decks that are going to give you plenty of time to kill them with Ragefires. After hitting once or twice with unblockable Eldritch Dreamers, it may only take 3 Ragefires to close the game. That may seem like a lot, but against a control deck you are probably not Ragefiring many troops to stay alive, and they are themselves slowing the game down by even running Countermagic to begin with.

I'm glad you are going to try the deck yourself, it really is a lot of fun to play!

A tip for playing the deck:

You want to run out the Ragefires as needed to not die in the early game. Don't worry about that, it's all part of the plan anyway. Hold on to those Mastery of Time until the last possible moment. If you play one simply to take another turn with no Eldritch Dreamer or Cerebral Fulminations on board, you WILL see it be bad. It is 100% meant to be played to get ahead once you set up the board the way you want it. The first mistake I see people doing with Mastery of Time is drawing it, and then playing it just because they have nothing else to do and it looks so tempting in their hand. That is a terrible reason to run it out, and will result in you being disappointed over and over again.

I will routinely hold 2 or 3 Master of Time in hand until I am ready to make my move. Once I start to take 2-3 extra turns in a row while drawing 3-4 cards in each of those turns, the game can turn a corner that the opponent will never make it back from. Remember all those Ragefires you ran out early to not die... well now they are hitting for 6 or 8 damage each, and you might be drawing 12 cards before your opponent can draw half that number, so there is a fantastic chance you will just happen to draw 2 Ragefires once you start running through Mastery of Times, and they will hit for 8 then 10 damage and the game is all of a sudden over.

escapeRoute
11-28-2013, 12:51 PM
not a great deck... some of my concerns remain but i must admit that whern it works its an hell of a funny ride

u are right, the time thing is just great with this dec... the real problem is that it have too few removals for the first turns and u reallyneed to hope that the other deck is a slow one or that ur runs the perfect way, but i wouldnt call this one a bad deck for sure :P

Ritter
11-28-2013, 02:29 PM
I found the removal isn't too few, but occasionally ill suited to the job. Speedy troops or troops with 3 defense are definitely an issue. No deck will be great against everything but this deck is the closest thing to a combo deck I've run across yet. I fancy myself a control player, but I can't help myself when a great combo deck can just run through an event and smash those opponents who just can't stop the slaughter.

Indormi
11-28-2013, 06:39 PM
I like some of the nasty combos you got there, I think it has some issues with some of the most common decks. For example against mono-wild.

I dont like the eldrith dreamer that much in your deck as I belive they will suffer from what I call the Wrenlocke syndrome. First of all I will say that eldrith dreamer is ultra strong, but as you only have 6 creatures on your deck I dont see eldrith dreamer lasting more than 1 turn as your oponent has been probably holding removal in his hand the entire game when you play him.

CoO is really powerfull against this kind of deck if they manage to draw 2 of them is pretty much over for you, and remeber that you are giving them card draw too. The last of my concers is the you really depend on getting the ragefire going to clear the board, heat wave really destrys aggro but is not that effective vs a midrange deck.

Also there is one card that as stupid at it is may give you shit.tons of trouble, that card is Tomb-Lord, you really dont have the ability to block it for many turns as you have few creatures, and you really cant kill it with damage moreso if you are also milling them.

So while I agree that counterspell may not be the best on this deck, there are really some really nasty cards that you cant deal with them otherwise.

There is a streamer that really likes the mill deck and had one since the start of alpha, it started as ruby/saphire as well but it transitioned to blood/sapphire as more patches rolled out. You lose the ragefire win-con and gain the life siphon win con, it has better overall removal than ruby. The only issue is the lost of cerebral fulmination, it kills a bit your combo but you may want to consider trying it. If you want card draw (albeit only for yourself) you can always play bertram and necessary sacrifice, also worker bots are really good agaisnt early agression.

PS:I didnt watch the matches will do at a later time so this post may be completly useless xD if you already explained this on your videos

Ritter
11-28-2013, 07:31 PM
Great feedback Indormi. Always appreciated.

I'm standing in a very long line waiting to buy Black Friday (Thursday?) merchandise so I have a bit of time to kill. Posting from phone makes it a little more difficult but I'm gonna try my best.

I mention quite a bit about Dreamer being always removed since he's basically the only target. Storm Colossus really shouldn't be lumped in with Dreamer since the only removal spell that will kill him is Extinction while Dreamer gets hit by just about everything. I am very likely going to cut 4 Dreamers for some combination of Secret Labs and something else to be determined.

You would be surprised how easy aggro decks are to disrupt with a patient Heatwave and properly timed Burn/Ragefires. I might consider trying Yesterday again as a stall for aggro, but I wasn't in love with it when I originally tried it. If it comes in for Dreamer then I can see it getting better. Other options include Time Ripple and Stormcall. For something like Tomb Lord I have to just be faster than they are, which is not out of the question at all. Many games end on turn 6 for the opponent, which is turn 9 for me after Mastery of Times.

I built this deck to abuse Mastery of Time, and losing Dreamer makes me really sad. Cutting ruby would basically negate the abuse centered around the core of Time Mastery. Fulmination is the glue that holds it all together. I could try a totally different take on the deck that uses Blood instead, but then we would really be looking at a totally different deck.

Omen is a problem but not impossible to deal with. One game in particular I was Omened 3 times and I still almost won with Storm Colossus + 3 Mastery of Time. The turn I played the Colossus my opponent top decked the third Life Siphon to put it away. Had I took a turn, I would have swung for 24 damage without my opponent getting a turn in between. He took my Chronic Madness, Ragefire, and Dreamers. At that time I already had 1 Colossus in my hand and the one in my deck didn't look that scary.

I fear that losing the Dreamer also means losing a win con, so I would like to toy with something else as a 1-2 of to fix that.

Keep an eye out for more articles and updates to this deck as I am definitely not done with it yet. Keep the advice and feedback coming! If you happen to try out the list let me know how it went. I would highly recommend watching how I play it first though as it is very hard to play correctly and can lead to lost games from bad decisions very early on.

Simo46
11-28-2013, 07:40 PM
I would love to have an answer for you, but it is extremely hard to look into the future of the Hex alpha, and future deck design at this point. Seeing how so few changes can completely change the landscape of deck design from week to week, it is nearly impossible to determine how even one card coming in can change everyone's decks.

There are a ton of cards I would love to be able to test with, and I could really go crazy with like just 10 random cards being added to the current pool. This deck would be unplayable without Mastery of Time, so this kind of build was just a random musing before this latest patch added it to the card pool.

To try and answer your question specifically though without dancing around the build constraints currently involved in an alpha, I don't even know what Reginald Lancaster does. I'm attempting to look the card up on various card databases but I'm coming up blank! Let me know and I can tell you my thoughts about it though =p

Thanks for checking out the article!

He was spoiled a while ago and may not even still exist, but he's a 3 cost troop that is shuffled into their deck if he damages their champion. Then if he is drawn/revealed later in the game, YOU WIN. He works nice with the mill condition but maybe not so much with Mastery of Time as your opponent won't be drawing for a while. I except a few decks to revolved around him if he remains unchanged

Indormi
11-28-2013, 07:49 PM
Heat wave is great vs aggro, as you said but when you start encountirng creatures with 3+ defense you are having to 2 for 1 or use a escalated ragefire that was what I was trying to say, vs the standard mono ruby you will most likely crush it as they try to kill under extintion threshold but is imposible to kill you before you can heatwave (In addition with the nerf to poca it has slowed this deck further so they should be a problem). But if you start facing Fang of the mountaing god, Zoltog and nasty stuff like that early on you may have some issues.

I played 2(well 1 game me playing with it other playing against my friend who built it for me to try) games with your decklist and while I see the uses for the Crimsom Clarity I though that Shards of fate can resolve the threshold issues just the same and then you can add some labs or other stuff in there.

When I played against it I used the blue/blood control deck and it was a bit devastating. I had quite the opening hand though. I managed to CoO the Madness (as I had 1 extintion on hand for colossus) and counter mastery of times which really screw it over. Also dreamer just died to persecute/murder the second it was casted. In the end he died to a Colosus and Siphon.

You're completly right and the core of this deck is Fulmination and Mastery and is quite a nice combo. Maybe the deck does not need to be centered about milling for it to work? I had one idea about it which is a bit stupid but it might actually work, I would test it out a bit before just embarasing myself just in case xD.

Ritter
11-28-2013, 07:50 PM
He was spoiled a while ago and may not even still exist, but he's a 3 cost troop that is shuffled into their deck if he damages their champion. Then if he is drawn/revealed later in the game, YOU WIN. He works nice with the mill condition but maybe not so much with Mastery of Time as your opponent won't be drawing for a while. I except a few decks to revolved around him if he remains unchanged

That sounds like quite a gentleman. I don't think I ever saw him on the spoilers but I would imagine he will end many games on a sour note against many opponents. I don't know if he would be ideal with the deck posted here since I'm not sure how I would force him through opponents defenses to do his business. Certainly a fun idea to consider though!

Ritter
11-28-2013, 08:40 PM
You're completly right and the core of this deck is Fulmination and Mastery and is quite a nice combo. Maybe the deck does not need to be centered about milling for it to work? I had one idea about it which is a bit stupid but it might actually work, I would test it out a bit before just embarasing myself just in case xD.

After the article went up, I kept playing games... and more often then not, I was killing people from Ragefires than milling. Not sure how changing just a few cards and the champion made such a huge shift in the game plan, but there was definitely a shift.

I am very interested in working out some sort of non-mill win condition, which in reality means cutting 4x Chronic Madness and that's about it. The next question is whether or not it's worth it. I'm leaning towards yes... since disrupting the mill plan only requires someone getting around the Chronic Madness, whereas an overall damage your face plan can be achieved through various sources, such as the Colossus, Ragefire, Burn. This would further mean the incorporation of some other durable, reusable win condition. Right now the options are limited since the game is very short of card selection. Obvious choices include Burn to the Ground (can be used early or late game and has the capability of hitting very hard to close out a game if necessary), Plan C (with a Mastery of Time can be used to basically make 4-5 3/3 dudes with quasi haste from Mastery), Sliver of the Immortal Spear (I actually hate this card, feel it is very poor as a win condition, and I can't imagine using it in this deck at all), and Turreted Wall (the slowest win condition ever that I would be afraid to block with in the event he gets burned afterwards or Persecuted and dies).


When I played against it I used the blue/blood control deck and it was a bit devastating. I had quite the opening hand though. I managed to CoO the Madness (as I had 1 extintion on hand for colossus) and counter mastery of times which really screw it over. Also dreamer just died to persecute/murder the second it was casted. In the end he died to a Colosus and Siphon.

Not sure how much experience you have with MTG, but the theory is that the game is basically rock, paper, scissors.

Combo beats Aggro
Aggro beats Control
Control beats Combo

Now this is of course an oversimplification, but it stands as very practical and useful for theorycrafting. Aggro decks will overrun Control decks before they get online and manage to stabilize. Control decks will disrupt combo decks before the combo decks have a chance to reach a critical mass. Combo decks will outrace aggro decks that have no meaningful interaction to stop the combo player from doing whatever they want.

Your experience makes sense, and if I could design a deck that was great against all 3 varieties of decks (aggro, combo, control), the game wouldn't be fun anymore and it would just be everyone playing that one amazing deck. If we factor in that there is still no sideboards, it becomes meaningless for us to discuss the possibility of a deck that is well equipped to beat everything out there in just 1 game. What I think the goal should be right now revolves around 1 game constraints. Be equipped to deal with the most common threats to your game plan, but to not dilute your deck past the point of having a concise and effective end game. If that means I have to concede that well built and piloted Blood/x control decks with Omens will crush me from time to time, so be it. There is really no way to win them all in that sense. You can only hope to realize the limitations of your deck as the game currently stands, and be able to improve your deck building and play skill over time and use the expected losses as a learning experience.

Indormi
11-28-2013, 08:53 PM
I was aware of the rock-paper-scissors, but I try to build my decks with the intention of doing well in Bo3 matches (probably with sideboard) as that is the format that is used on Soldack tournamnt of streamers. Even though there is no wins agaisnt all other deck (that we discovered yet) I still like to think about all the possible weaknesses and what can I sideboard if I'm playing against the most common/tier 1 decks of the time.

So my idea was put hex engines in there, go to 4 colossus probably 4 harpies too and some countermagic and burn to the ground (maybe) and just ramp into harpies/colossus and then mastery of time for double damage for the kill.

Ritter
11-28-2013, 09:13 PM
Ash Harpy seems like a trap to me if you have Storm Colossus as an option. Harpy turns back on all the spot removal we nullified in the first place by choosing a spellshielded troop. The Harpy definitely has a higher damage output over the course of just a few turns, but I can see it dying to all those Persecutes, Murders, Repels, Howling Ambushes etc., that we were already worried about when discussing Dreamer.

http://i.imgur.com/ZszNErg.png

This is what I am going to start trying out, since Plan C + Time Mastery can easily deal 12 damage out of basically nowhere, and stick around through a heatwave, spot removal etc. The only thing it will certainly lose to is an Extinction which I don't love, and it happens to play very poorly with Mastery of Time if you draw it after you Plan C. With the Hex Engines though, there's still a good chance you will be able to run out freshly draw Ragefires and other 2 drops with no problem, or 3 drops in conjunction with Crimson Clarity.

I really have no idea how its going to work, but experimentation is all part of the game.

::EDIT::

Ok so I just finished one game with that updated list. My opponent Countered my Hex Engine, Burn to the Ground, and Ragefire, then Immortalitied twice, Blinding Lighted once... all to stall his demise. This was after I landed all 4 Fulminations and took 4 turns in a row with 3 Mastery of Time with a Colossus on board and Ragefire up to 8 damage after 3 heatwaves cleared his board 3 different times of various threats.

I was left with 16 cards in my library to his 42 (we both started with 60 cards), and I have to say I drew quite a few extra cards that game.

A wise man once told me the most fun you could have playing MTG was drawing lots of cards, and that is something I could really dig. Drawing cards usually means you are getting ahead of your opponent, and that is almost always a good thing. If this deck does one thing well... it is drawing cards.

Not to leave you hanging, it was a super epic match, and his last hoorah was running out a flying Ancestral Specter to block after I played my second Colossus with him at 10 life from one of the Immortalities, but I had the Burn to take it out during his end step. Super epic game. I really recommend giving this new version a spin!

escapeRoute
11-29-2013, 02:48 AM
since im really a combo/control deck player and since i really loved the idea behind this deck (iven if it wasnt instantly clear to me since i didnt read the article, but only the card lists... and i have yet to read the article, sry pal XD) i made these changes and this is the version ive been running since yesterday night (here in italy its morning now (10:44 am)

i changed the shards to make them be 10/10/4 shards of fate (u loose the charge, wich is my biggest concern here, but i belive it allows u to play without those almost 4 dead cards that are the crimson clarity (not really dead since they have a lot of uses in this deck and not only the thershold thing, but still i dont like them very much) changing them with 4 countermagics and i changed the 4 dreamers (since i found out, as expected, that more often than not u were not able to use them) with 4 secret labs

it could really be 3 secret labs and one burn to the ground anyway

and its working great

i really love ur idea here :D

mudkip
11-29-2013, 08:04 AM
That sounds like quite a gentleman. I don't think I ever saw him on the spoilers but I would imagine he will end many games on a sour note against many opponents. I don't know if he would be ideal with the deck posted here since I'm not sure how I would force him through opponents defenses to do his business. Certainly a fun idea to consider though!

http://www.thresholdpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ReginaldLancashireSmall.png

It's similar to Sabotage, except you win when the opponent draws/discards it.

escapeRoute
11-29-2013, 08:52 AM
http://www.thresholdpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ReginaldLancashireSmall.png

It's similar to Sabotage, except you win when the opponent draws/discards it.
it is almost impossible to make this guy reach the opponent and.. if he does.. without a decent amount of mill the opponent will almost never draw it (wich raises the problem that, with milling, u may actually take him out of his deck, making him useless)

without milling ur opponents will often end up around 30/35 cards before u are able to finish him... and being reginald only one card in his deck (stars would have to align in very strange ways for u to use him 4 times and to be actually able to hit the opponent more than once with him) that makes the chances of pulling this off like... i dont know.. its more likely that the opponent will die by hearth attack making u win cause of the timer running out

anyway, u readed it wrong.. he cant discard it, he needs to draw it

mudkip
11-29-2013, 09:35 AM
anyway, u readed it wrong.. he cant discard it, he needs to draw it
I think you need to read it again: it triggers when it enters the graveyard as well.

Regi will be a great addition to a mill deck. A 3/3 for 3 is nice in itself, and then if if lands on the enemy champ it will on average halve the numbers of cards that need to be milled before you win.

escapeRoute
11-29-2013, 10:41 AM
I think you need to read it again: it triggers when it enters the graveyard as well.

Regi will be a great addition to a mill deck. A 3/3 for 3 is nice in itself, and then if if lands on the enemy champ it will on average halve the numbers of cards that need to be milled before you win.


what is this magic, i was sure i readed it more than once O.O yet, u are still right bout that... but still its pretty hard to make it hit since he will have plenty of removal cause.. well, u have no targets at all

Tempura
12-02-2013, 03:21 AM
Thank you Ritter for the write up. Also, thank you for keeping up with proper grammer when so many disdain from using their education!

I will try this deck out and make ammends where I see fit.

Thanks again!

Entityofsin
12-02-2013, 10:58 PM
In a deck like this, it kind of screams for Cosmic Totem to be used after you've established a couple Fulmination on the field (which is +3 cards every turn). Cause with that kind of draw power you should be drawing back into your stall cards. I'm kind of surprised Time Ripple wasn't a card tried out in this deck. Makes troops cost +1 and stops an attack. Heat Wave is pretty terrible too for mass removal. Mesmerize, Stormcall, Ruby Lance, etc. are better cards that help achieve what you're going for. If Sabotage was used in the deck with Cosmic Totem, it wouldn't matter if they're gaining life or not. At some point they're going to be drawing nothing but traps and you'll be milling them for nothing but traps. A Chronic Madness milling for 12 or 16 and netting 3-5 traps is scary damage.

As long as your Fulminations stay put you can recycle your deck's cards a lot with Cosmic Totem. That's another possible 80 damage from 4 more Sabotage per Totem, 8 more damage from Burn per Totem, etc. You get the point.

It's a fun deck but it can produce some really terrible starting hands too.

Damascus
12-03-2013, 03:25 AM
Thank you Ritter for the write up. Also, thank you for keeping up with proper grammer when so many disdain from using their education!


Grammar*

Sorry, I had to lol

Ritter
12-03-2013, 03:30 PM
I'm glad someone appreciates the conventions of the language being executed properly!

I did try (and discuss in the videos themselves) Time Ripple. It is a great card to have at your disposal, but I was more interested in cards that permanently dealt with the the early rush of creatures that is most difficult for this deck to deal with before it can take over the game. Conveniently, Burn and Ragefire also go towards dealing 20 damage which is usually good enough to put away the game.

I like Heatwave in an alpha that has no sideboards, no best of 3, and unpredictable deck construction from new players trying out whatever looks good. If the current card pool was Set 1, and we jumped right into Beta or Full Release with best of 3 matches with sideboarding after game 1, I would DEFINITELY have 4x Heatwave maindeck, with plenty of cards to switch out for them in the event we find them dead (like in a Control or Combo match). There's really no single card that can 3-for-1 or better a board than Heatwave right now in Ruby/Sapphire. Yesterday can bounce them to the hand, but that's just a temporary reprieve. Heatwave can very early in the game wipe away all the threats that stop you from reaching that mid-lategame threshold that is so important for this deck to hit.

mudkip
12-03-2013, 03:56 PM
Thank you Ritter for the write up. Also, thank you for keeping up with proper grammer when so many disdain from using their education!

I will try this deck out and make ammends where I see fit.

Thanks again!
"Make amendments" or "Amend" *



Grammar*

Sorry, I had to lol
It's so hard not to :(

Tempura
12-04-2013, 03:46 AM
"Make amendments" or "Amend" *



It's so hard not to :(

Hey the Trolls, how about you go and check the eyeball gouging paragraphs from the previous users.

Well the asshats aside, it’s a very good write up. Thank you and Bee for your contributions. I shall be posting a few builds myself to see what the community thinks.

Keep up the good work.