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View Full Version : Is Ozawa a bit overpowered ?



fuzzyhobo
12-01-2013, 04:50 AM
Is Ozawa, Cosmic Elder a bit overpowered?
I mean I love the card, but when I'm able to take the picture below it's a bit ridiculous.

If you are wondering why it has double the damage of the hero health it's because of a bug causing it to keep the stats when hit with Time Riddle

1351

dwebber88
12-01-2013, 05:11 AM
Hmm i dont know, if you dont have an answer to fist you're done in 3 turns as well. at least you can block this guy, murder it, extinction it, and then for blue decks, time ripple, countermagic, buccaneer, etc. in addition to all that he's hard to play, since he costs a lot and can be easily countered.

So, no. me personally, i really dont think he's op at all.

funktion
12-01-2013, 05:14 AM
It is very easy to interact with ozawa. I'd say it is totally fine for powerful cards to do powerful things so long as there are plenty of options with which to interact with them.

Just because there are some cases in which cards become extremely powerful and begin to snowball does not mean that they need to be nerfed. I'd say that in fact it more than likely means that the deck was built well and that the game is interesting.

Notice I'm not saying that it is outside the realm of reason that some cards could potentially be too strong and need to be reigned in / rebalanced. What I'm saying is that I don't believe that to currently be the case.

fuzzyhobo
12-01-2013, 05:31 AM
The problem is that you do need to take him out as fast as possible since every time he attacks/defends he'll double the health of champion.
I mean even if I lost the card there at the end, I still have 47k health which would take forever for the AI to get rid of.
But I also do have resurrection on the board and 2 more of him in hand, so it's no problem keeping this up forever.

I think life drain is the wrong ability to give him since it causes this loop, steadfast or swiftstrike would be better imho.

Bowja
12-01-2013, 05:46 AM
Lifedrain is ok, I think if they are going to be giving lifedrain to a card like this then lifedrain itself need to be changed in some way. Or as suggested to give the card swiftstrike or steadfast. But then you have the problem of playing him with Dimmid. And even tho you are limited with the use of your hero ability, it only costs 2 and once you use it for three turns its hard to counter playing against.

Now I know that the above is a specific situation setup vs and AI and there are many removal cards that can be played to counter it. but if they are going to keep lifedrain on the card there maybe needs to be a change. For example they could change lifedrain so that it gives half the amount of damage done back as life to a minimum of 1. which means to get anything more than 1 life back you need to have lifedrain on a card with 4 or more damage. This seems more reasonable considering that you only have 20 health. There are other TCG games where you start with 100 for example. And in those situations have 100% lifedrain effect would be fine.

But here not so much that card does get out of hand very quickly. Have I played vs a deck with that card, yes and have i been able to nullify it? Yes I have several times. But that doesn't discount the fact that it is really strong. And in my opinion the problem lies with lifedrain and not the card itself.

Malakili
12-01-2013, 06:18 AM
Any deck that plays to its win condition perfectly without being screwed with is going to seem over powered. It might be Ozawa, it might be a control deck that never lets you get anything out, it might be a turn 3 Fist, it might be a turn 4 win for a monored aggro deck.

You've got to identify what you're playing against and make sure the other player doesn't achieve their win condition. If you don't have a way to stop their win condition, at least before you achieve yours, you lose. That might sound obvious, but it isn't necessarily.

Also consider that we are dealing with no sideboards and best of 1 right now. That means in some situations you might not be able to win a game. But these sorts of games are never balanced for a 1-off game against a random person/deck. That is why tournaments are best of 3 and allow sideboarding.

So, Ozawa is a powerful win condition, that much is clear. But I am still hesitant to call pretty much anything "OP" in the current state of the game.

decoy11
12-01-2013, 06:25 AM
I wouldn't say Ozawa is overpowered. He is just a troop you need to deal with when it comes out when your opponent is in a good position. When your life is very high he will be very strong but when your life is very low he is pretty bad in my opinion.

bofedy
12-01-2013, 07:22 AM
It is very easy to interact with ozawa. I'd say it is totally fine for powerful cards to do powerful things so long as there are plenty of options with which to interact with them.

Just because there are some cases in which cards become extremely powerful and begin to snowball does not mean that they need to be nerfed. I'd say that in fact it more than likely means that the deck was built well and that the game is interesting.

Notice I'm not saying that it is outside the realm of reason that some cards could potentially be too strong and need to be reigned in / rebalanced. What I'm saying is that I don't believe that to currently be the case.

how can you say all this and make a thread how sorrow is OP lol??? btw to counter it use evolve or a bucktooth comander if there are ways around a card its not OP :)

Xenavire
12-01-2013, 07:46 AM
The sorrow thread was satire - a joke.

Anyway, we will see this OP target change from Ozawa to Kraken shortly. I mean the damn thing spawns 8 1/1 tentacles that can exhaust to exhaust another target, and the Kraken is an 8/8 beater. It can lock you down AND beat your face. Just wait until we hear all the QQ over how powerful sapphire is with all its bounce cards, counterspell, and a bomb.

ossuary
12-01-2013, 08:46 AM
Yeah, but it's still easy enough to answer. Murder the kraken, all the tentacles die... or heat wave / sorrow (hah! OP!) to kill the tentacles, and the kraken dies with them.

Jugan
12-01-2013, 09:21 AM
No.

fuzzyhobo
12-01-2013, 09:24 AM
* Deleted

Jinxies
12-01-2013, 11:07 AM
I still think Ozawa is a kinda not good *shrugs* Expensive, no evasion and easily removed isn't really a combo I like in a creature.

Xenavire
12-01-2013, 11:09 AM
Yeah, but it's still easy enough to answer. Murder the kraken, all the tentacles die... or heat wave / sorrow (hah! OP!) to kill the tentacles, and the kraken dies with them.

But the same is true for all of the bombs (except Fist, which is immune to most of the standard removal. You can deal with it, but its tougher.)

But if you can't remove the Kraken quickly, Sapphire can break it fairly easily. Mimic it twice the turn after (for the same cost as playing the first) and you suddenly have 3 24/24 troops and 24 1/1's. Still vulnerable to heatwave, sorrow, and extinction, but Ozawa has a large number of counters too.

I honestly just want us to get to set 3 so we have a slightly less steep curve in power overall for the whole block, and people stop calling OP on anything slightly above par.

Lawlschool
12-01-2013, 11:10 AM
If there's a problem with Ozawa (and personally I'm not convinced there is), it's not with him but with all the life he gains you. Dealing with him is fine, nothing wrong with big critters with no evasion, but he has the same problem that the escalation cards did with the growth being geometric, meaning it can get out of hand fairly quickly. Even after you get rid of Ozawa you still have the daunting task of draining that life he gained (assuming you didn't dispose of him in the first few turns). Not an impossible task, just a fairly boring one. Something like "gain ___ health every time Ozawa attacks/is dealt damage/deals damage" or whatnot might be a better way to accomplish the same general effect. Of course there are still ways to give Ozawa lifedrain, which seems fine as it requires a bit more coordination. Though, if rampant lifegain gets a place in the meta, you could always sideboard in the Spear card.

Really, I think the only issue is that Ozawa has the potential to drag games out and make the really long, which might not be that much of an issue. Could always concede if you know it'll take too long, especially now when losing doesn't matter.

Entityofsin
12-01-2013, 11:56 AM
Playing a game against the AI shouldn't be any point of reference of whether a card is overpowered. That's what the screenshot is from.

ossuary
12-01-2013, 02:24 PM
I honestly just want us to get to set 3 so we have a slightly less steep curve in power overall for the whole block, and people stop calling OP on anything slightly above par.

I hear you, but I can also guarantee you that people will always scream OP, because there will always be people who 1) think they are better than they really are, and 2) like to complain.

I, on the other hand, know damn well that I'm average at TCGs at best, so I know better than to scream broken just because I get beat. ;)

mudkip
12-01-2013, 02:56 PM
I assumed the OP made this thread as a subtle "Look at my screenshot". Let's just agree that it's a nice screenshot, Ozawa is fine and now let's get some beers.

Damascus
12-01-2013, 11:22 PM
Playing a game against the AI shouldn't be any point of reference of whether a card is overpowered. That's what the screenshot is from.

Came here to say this

BlackRoger
12-02-2013, 03:26 AM
Playing a game against the AI shouldn't be any point of reference of whether a card is overpowered. That's what the screenshot is from.


If it makes you feel better, I had a real opponent get to 800 hp before I got rid of ozawa, so can we stop the "Its only an AI game, there is no real problem" answers?

BlackRoger
12-02-2013, 03:40 AM
Also, an interesting solution would be for lifedrain to ignore "overkill" damage, would make sense themewise as well (how do you get 20 life out of my little workbot?)
will probably get rejected by the mtg fans though.

jgsugden
12-02-2013, 03:01 PM
Any creature that is very high in cost without protections (spellshield, etc...) should be a game winner if not eliminated quickly. If a game goes on beyond 2 or 3 turns after this guy gets out, the game should effectively be over - and usually will be. It is fine.

Tempura
12-04-2013, 03:53 AM
This is why you always build with the thought of some sort of removal in mind. I find that most decks have contingencies and will employ them when things go astray or they find some opening they previously did not see.

LordMaarg
12-04-2013, 03:01 PM
I think the way to fix this guy is to have his X/X be fixed to the point where he was placed on the battlefield. If they threw in some life gain first that might also balance the crazy cost. So Ozawa becomes "Lifedrain. Gain 5 life. When Ozawa enters the battlefield, Ozawa's power and toughness are equal to your life total."

LordMaarg
12-04-2013, 03:13 PM
Something else to consider is that Ozawa isn't a very good win condition alone. An easy counter is a deck that can spit out one 1/1 every turn. Without Crush, Ozawa alone couldn't beat a 1/1 counter, and a 1/1 counter is definitely not a win condition, so all you are really doing with your Ozawa is wasting time until your opponent draws his win condition.

DackFayden
12-05-2013, 01:09 AM
I think the way to fix this guy is to have his X/X be fixed to the point where he was placed on the battlefield. If they threw in some life gain first that might also balance the crazy cost. So Ozawa becomes "Lifedrain. Gain 5 life. When Ozawa enters the battlefield, Ozawa's power and toughness are equal to your life total."

This guy has the most fair fix. The old problem with escalation is the problem people are complained about with Ozawa, exponential growth. I agree with LordMarg keep his p/t fixed, and probably decrease his cost.

That being said as it stands Ozawa is not OP, he just gets out of hand fast. But at 7 you can tell when an Ozawa is going to hit the board and plan according. Actually with most Ozawa decks you can tell their an ozawa deck usually in the first couple turns and plan from there. Ozawa doesnt have spellshield/flight/crush/haste so removing him with a spell of surviving his onslaught is easy. I'd vote keep his powerlevel and mechanics as they are now

noragar
12-11-2013, 09:19 AM
Edited.

kodra
12-13-2013, 10:52 AM
ozawa is on my chopping block now in my lifegain.dec. He takes forever to get out, when he does he's easily answered, he doesn't do anything entering the battlefield, he can't get to the champ. I'd rather kill people with excessive Life Siphons

Vorpal
12-14-2013, 08:44 AM
I don't think any big fatty that does nothing on the turn he comes in is overpowered.

Pack hard removal in your decks or lose :D

No different if a high tomb lord were dropped with 15 cards in each persons graveyard.

rcl
12-25-2013, 11:12 PM
Also, an interesting solution would be for lifedrain to ignore "overkill" damage, would make sense themewise as well (how do you get 20 life out of my little workbot?)
will probably get rejected by the mtg fans though.

I agree completely about a change to life drain as you suggest.

I also agree that O should have his p/t fixed when he hits the board

VeScorp
12-26-2013, 03:18 AM
Weeeeelll, as we are exchanging the personal opinions, I'd say Ozawa is totally reasonable as it is

Barborin
12-27-2013, 04:48 PM
I definitely think this card is over powered, and I usually run a deck that has 3 murders and 4 extinctions. The problem is, if you don't handle this just before he deals damage, he is pretty much out of range. I recently played a game where I was able to murder him after 3 rounds of attacking, but then my opponent has 120 health. So even after I got rid of him, it was pretty much done.

My suggestion for a change to this guy would be one of two things:

1) Change his life drain to only work when damage to a champion is dealt. However, for his cost, this is likely less viable.
2) Tie the opponents health to his. Make it a health bonus, instead of gaining health. So, like in my game today, if your opponents gets up for 3k+ health (which I've seen happen a lot with this card), and you kill ozawa, make their life reset back to whatever it was when he was played.

DackFayden
12-27-2013, 06:56 PM
I definitely think this card is over powered, and I usually run a deck that has 3 murders and 4 extinctions. The problem is, if you don't handle this just before he deals damage, he is pretty much out of range. I recently played a game where I was able to murder him after 3 rounds of attacking, but then my opponent has 120 health. So even after I got rid of him, it was pretty much done.

My suggestion for a change to this guy would be one of two things:

1) Change his life drain to only work when damage to a champion is dealt. However, for his cost, this is likely less viable.
2) Tie the opponents health to his. Make it a health bonus, instead of gaining health. So, like in my game today, if your opponents gets up for 3k+ health (which I've seen happen a lot with this card), and you kill ozawa, make their life reset back to whatever it was when he was played.

Interesting fix, but how about this:

When Ozawa enters play he get +X/+X where X is you life total.

This way life gain from an unanswered Ozawa isn't exponential.

Similar to the escalation nerf

Sereaphim
12-28-2013, 07:07 AM
Interesting fix, but how about this:

When Ozawa enters play he get +X/+X where X is you life total.

This way life gain from an unanswered Ozawa isn't exponential.

Similar to the escalation nerf

This would buff Ozawa if she gets summon multiple times by Call the Graves or Resurrection.
Or if you health points get burned in the next turn to get Ozawa lower.

I have no idea why so many people have problems with her.

Cost 7 DD
Unique
Has no protection like spellshild or invisibility
Has no way to get to the enemy life with fly or crush
Is depend on the life total and can be weak or not this useful in some situations

Counter play:

Hard removal with Murder, Extinction, Inner Conflict, Polymorph: Dingler....
Block with troops that not suffer damage with Flock Seaguls, King Gabriel, Blinding Light, Eternal Guardian....
Block and sacrifice troop with Hideous Conversion, Boltpaw Wizard, Hop'hiro Samurai, Blood Cauldron Ritualist....
Kill or get your enemy low before he can play it.
Remove it out of is hand and deck before he can play it with Curse of Oblivion, Relentless Coruption, Incarnation of Fear, Misfortune, Giant Corpse Fly, mill cards....

kodra
01-02-2014, 02:37 PM
If you are aggro you should never see him. If you are control you should always have an answer. Incantation of Righteousness and Vampire King have pushed Ozawa out of my lifegain deck