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View Full Version : Looking for advice -- Blue/White Control+Draw



Bloodytrailz
12-17-2013, 09:03 PM
So this deck revolves around a few mechanics:
-Low cost control
-Plenty of draw power for comboing

Decklist is currently as follows:

***EDITED 12/18/2013 to current decklist***
-Took out 2x grelks and 1x land for 3x spellshield
(I figure after removing grelks, my high end (aka 3+ cost) is only 6 cards, so i can probably swing it with 23 lands...if i find this to be incorrect through playtesting, I will simply add a land again and remove a soul marble or oracles song for it.)


WYATT THE SAPPER (considering trying the flying fox for soul marble 6/6s)
13x Sapphire
10x Diamond

1res:
Soul Marble X4
Ancestors Chosen X4

2res:
Time Ripple X3
Repel X3
Eldritch Spellshield X3

3res:
Oracle's Song X4
Inner Conflict X4
Countermagic X4

4res:
Eldritch Dreamer (+Draw rune) X4

5res:
Mastery of Time X4


Now you can see the obvious win conditions here, Evasion+Mastery of Time.

but there are some things I'm wondering about or torn over.


Soul Marble vs Eldritch Spellshield.
Soul armements gives all my spirits and dreamers +2/+2 and steadfast+spellshield onto all my evaders but takes a long time to get going.... however, given the fact my deck is reactionary via most of its control, soul marble gives me a great place to sunk unused resource....also giving me the option of a 6/6 steadfast/spellshield troop if i need that instead

... Or eldritch spellshield is a much cheaper way to protect my eldritch dreamers. Quick actioning it over a removal will cause them to blow a removal and get nothing for it as well as countermagic, gives me a ton of ability to stop spot removals

Oracle's Song vs Healing
Oracle's song acts as supplementary card draw between dreamers....
Healing would help keep me in the game longer vs burn decks and help me stabilize after i deal with an aggro deck...also can't decide if i were to go heals, soothing breeze or eternal youth. (If i were to drop the oracles, I don't know that my draw power would be strong enough to merit eternal youth...but most my games go 8+ turns.)


Effectiveness of time ripple and potential replacement? (Could add the heals here instead of oracles song)
I have a hard time using this spell effectively, best i've used it for is to either bounce my own dreamer out of a removal or to bounce a big bomb like fist or honeycaps etc etc...overall I find this card kind of lacking...I wish it mirrored MTG's unsummon and was just a 1 mana bounce :(

Menacing Grelks vs Other removal?
I almost always use grelks defensively to effectively "freeze'' the enemies minions for 1 turn...I chose grelks so far because the alternatives all seem somewhat self destructive.
yesterday sends my minions back to my hand and judgement will kill anything under X cost (which would be all my spirits usually) .... so grelk is the only non self destructive option but only lasts for 1 turn :/ .... maybe yesterday could work because of the 2/2 spirits that draw a card and the fact that i do run fairly low troop count. (Taking out the grelks would leave me with only 8 troops and maybe 12 with marble)


Thoughts on going with the flying fox and adding a couple wrenlockes for even more draw?

Thoughts on mimic to mimic enemy bombs or using them to create additional dreamers?


And any other general advice or possible modifications?

The deck feels very weak to mill/control unless i have spellshield which is why i originally added eldritch spellshield (and then changed to soul marble for more versatility) and pure burn decks (which is why i thought about adding the healing)

I have a pretty solid matchup against most common creature decks...my removals are cheap enough to counter/stabilize against most rush matchups and wild ramps are no problem at all. (Inner conflict/Time ripple>fist and repel>honeycaps....only problem i have on these guys is crash of beast)

Any thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated, thanks :D

Lawlschool
12-17-2013, 10:20 PM
This actually looks pretty solid IMO (though not quite sure what that's worth just yet). I kinda want to try this out, since it seems like a good Soul Marble deck.

What I would change is:

-1 Countermagic
-1 Soul Marble (or maybe Ancestors, depending on which I'd rather see more often)
-1 Mastery of Time
-1 Inner Conflict
-1 Eldritch Dream (maybe...)

+1 Diamond Shard
+2/3 Buccaneer/Spearcliff Pony
+1/2 Eldritch Spellshield

Since the deck is slow, you could probably benefit with an extra shard. Other than that, my recommendations are mostly personal preference. You have a lot of removal, I prefer to be a bit more aggressive. Hence why I'd drop some of the removal for Ponys (or Bucs as an extra bounce + chump trader). Since I think Soul Armaments are bugged and you can only do Soul Cavalry, some Spellshields might be nice. But you're also pretty light on troops, so it could be a dead draw more often than you'd like.

I think this deck could have a lot of flexibility in the Reserves. You could go more aggressive against other control, or more defensive against aggro. Cool stuff dude.

Edit: Also, if you want some lifegain, go with Dimmind. You already have a ton of draw, Wyatt isn't really necessary. With Dimmind you can put lifedrain on your Dreams for some guaranteed health.

Bloodytrailz
12-17-2013, 10:30 PM
I originally had bucaneer, but i came to appreciate the instant speed of time ripple (I can use it to save my own units from a removal and stop a speed creature like rampaging tarrasque)

I definitely would advise against removing an eldritch dreamer, they are unblockable+card draw every turn (get a mastery of time with an eldritch on the field?.... that's 4 cards!)

I considered spearcliff ponies for sure, they fit with the deck and they would help fill some of the missing things (early pressure+health)

Atm i'm just prefering time ripple over buccaneer... the 3 main problems with bucc/spear are
-Dropping one is 3 more mana away from soul marble
-Dropping one anything less than turn 5/6 (or 5/6 res in general) means no countermagic, repel, time ripples
-It goes into an already oversaturated 3drop spot (competing with oracle, counter, inner conflict...granted your proposed changes remove 2 of the 12 3res cards so that isnt a huuuge issue compared to the 1st point and especially the 2nd point)

I've highly considered them, and i still do....but you start losing a lot of your reactionary versatility when you start adding in basic action spells :/ (which is why the only 4 basic actions have a huge purpose in the deck. Inner conflict is prime removal, oracle song is to dig for answers when you don't have any, and then chosen+dreamer)

And as far as the extra diamond goes, with the draw power of the deck, as long as you start with 3 shard, or draw to 3 within first 2 turns, it's pretty hard to be starved for land...because a good like...60% of the deck is playable on 3 resource

Lawlschool
12-17-2013, 10:36 PM
Oh for sure, no arguments there. My changes were just my personal preference for troops over control spells. Heavy control just gets boring for me after a while, even if it is really good.

Bloodytrailz
12-17-2013, 10:45 PM
Haha, yeah, it's a slow going deck for sure, and I understand where you're coming from (I'm a lover of rakdos style decks in MTG) so this is a whole new ballpark for me....but having mana open to counterplay is one of the most important aspects of the deck.

Also just noticed a spell i hadnt seen before "Stoneskin"
Could be good for preventing your dreamers from going down instead of Eldritch spellshield. (I'm still not sure if i like soul marble or eldritch spellshield better >.< i keep jumping between them)

Stoneskin just trades a card for more expensive card....spellshield trades a card for a card....and still has a lasting effect (which is why im so in love with it >.<)

I might consider dropping a few cards to get 3 spellshields on top of the soul marbles (although i'd get rid of at least 1 marble in the process)

BlackRoger
12-18-2013, 06:34 AM
Now, this won't be a problem during the alpha, but once they fix the gem thresholds, eldrich dreamer + gem will require 4 sapphire threshold, which would take some time for a 2 colors deck to acheive. possibly switch to the +1/+1 diamond gem maybe ?

the_artic_one
12-18-2013, 01:04 PM
Now, this won't be a problem during the alpha, but once they fix the gem thresholds, eldrich dreamer + gem will require 4 sapphire threshold

No he won't gem thresholds are working as intended. One is threshold to play, the other is threshold to activate, they don't stack.

poizonous
12-18-2013, 07:33 PM
No he won't gem thresholds are working as intended. One is threshold to play, the other is threshold to activate, they don't stack.

Artic, I think you are wrong. I am fairly certain in order to balance the Gems that they should require separate thresholds.

jtatta
12-18-2013, 07:38 PM
Why do you guys think that gem thresholds aren't working as intended? The gems work like any other threshold, they don't require any additional cost. As per your example, the Dreamer with the draw gem still only requires two sapphire threshold. I'm not sure why you think otherwise as they've stated before that that's how it works.

Bloodytrailz
12-18-2013, 08:52 PM
Oh dear, I've incited quite the discussion here, haha

I gotta agree that gems appear to be working as intended.
Even 1 saph threshhold just makes it unplayable in any non saphire deck.

And oh my, my first real post here on the forums and I have mr. tatta himself on it haha (I only started playing a couple days ago but i read TCG pro/watched some of the streamer tourneys :P)

Still open to ideas on the deck itself. (Original post edited to reflect changes i made yesterday)

jtatta
12-19-2013, 09:15 AM
I actually liked your first version more. What it looks like you're doing here is taking a mono-Sapphire tempo deck and taking all the tempo cards out for average Diamond cards. You have a few different options:

1)You can cut down on the Diamond cards and play more Sapphire threats. Fir example, 4 Soul Marble, 4 Inner Conflict, and 3 Repels are way too many Diamond cards. I know how sweet Soul Marble is but I'd play something like 3 Marble, 3 Conflict (maybe even 2), and 1-2 Repel. In all honestly, cards like Buccaneer are typically better than the removal given the nature of the deck.

2)You can take out some of the Sapphire cards and play more Diamond ones. I'd still make the changes that I outlined above but adding in Spearcliff Cloud Knight can go a long way to helping the deck. Currently, your only win condition is the Dreamer (and I guess Soul Marble) and that is extremely vulnerable. Try adding the Cloud Knights and go from there is my suggestion.

the_artic_one
12-19-2013, 12:26 PM
Artic, I think you are wrong. I am fairly certain in order to balance the Gems that they should require separate thresholds.

They are seperate, they work like dandelion sprite's ability.