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View Full Version : Menacing Gralk Poorly Implemented/Worded



Fiztandantibus
01-05-2014, 04:10 AM
Yesterday I was playing a game after several months and I came up against the Menacing Gralk, a troop card that states the following effect:

When this troop enters play, exhaust each opposing troop. Those troops can't ready during their controller's next ready step.

I highlighted "those" in bold for the following reason: I had the upper hand and my cards were exhausted for the most part when it came into play and clearly it exhausted my other 2-3 cards that were in defensive ready mode. I thought it was a no big deal. Given the syntax of the card my other cards would ready as they hadn't been directly exhausted by the Menacing Gralk, much to my surprise they were all unable to ready and I lost the game.

I believe that the card is either bugged or that the meaning of the card is misinterpreted. Cards that are already exhausted should not be unable to ready in the next turn as the Gralk didn't cause them to reach exhaustion.

What do you guys think?

houjix
01-05-2014, 06:45 AM
"Those troops" refers to each opposing troop, not those that were actually exhausted by the effect. If they intended it to be the other way it would specifically say, "Those troops that were exhausted this way don't ready." They had similar effects in their WoW TCG and that was exactly how they handled the distinction.

HyenaNipples
01-05-2014, 09:05 AM
I agree with Fiz.

The use of the pronoun "those" immediately after defining a specific group makes for confusion. The card is clearly stating that it will only prevent the cards it exhausts from readying; other troops already exhausted are implied to be immune to the ability.

This is another of those situations where everyone can agree the text is a bit too ambiguous at the moment.

Malakili
01-05-2014, 09:10 AM
It works as I expected it to work based on the text. As houjix says, if they wanted it to be otherwise the card would say "Troops exhausted this way.." It pretty clearly affects "each opposing troop."

escapeRoute
01-05-2014, 10:31 AM
It works as I expected it to work based on the text. As houjix says, if they wanted it to be otherwise the card would say "Troops exhausted this way.." It pretty clearly affects "each opposing troop."

well, not if u come from MTG actually... it would have stated (in mtg) "opponent creatures dont untap on the next opponent turn", wich is way more clear than this one...

Malakili
01-05-2014, 10:39 AM
Not really. Menacing Gralk is Sleep on a stick.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=SLEEP




"Card Text:Tap all creatures target player controls. Those creatures don't untap during that player's next untap step."


Rulings

10/1/2009 The second part of Sleep's effect affects all creatures the targeted player controls as Sleep resolves, not just the ones that Sleep actually caused to become tapped.


It seems very likely to me that this is the intended behavior of Gralk.

GrinningBuddha
01-05-2014, 11:19 AM
I'm fairly sure that being exhausted does not prevent you from being exhausted again by an external force such as the Gralk. Any troop that's in play is exhausted when the Gralk comes down, even if they aren't ready. For a MTG example, look at Tamiyo or Frost Titan.

TLDR: Exhausted troops can still be exhausted by Gralk.

Xenavire
01-05-2014, 12:46 PM
I'm fairly sure that being exhausted does not prevent you from being exhausted again by an external force such as the Gralk. Any troop that's in play is exhausted when the Gralk comes down, even if they aren't ready. For a MTG example, look at Tamiyo or Frost Titan.

TLDR: Exhausted troops can still be exhausted by Gralk.

This - they can be exhausted multiple times, but cannot be exhausted for a cost. So Gralk exhausts them regardless of whether they are already exhausted, then prevents them being readied.

DackFayden
01-05-2014, 07:42 PM
Although this would be a good time to point out the text on cards like sleep (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=254119) is intuitive.

Instead of 1 clause: tap all creatures target player controls. Those creatures don't untap during that player's next untap step

How about: 2 clauses
when this troop ETB
Exhaust all troops target opponent controls +(and)
Troops target opponent controls do not ready during opponents next prep phase


Same effect just easier to read and understand. No need to also adopt archaic wording from magic cards

BossHoss
01-05-2014, 07:53 PM
Although this would be a good time to point out the text on cards like sleep (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=254119) is intuitive.

Instead of 1 clause: tap all creatures target player controls. Those creatures don't untap during that player's next untap step

How about: 2 clauses
when this troop ETB
Exhaust all troops target opponent controls +(and)
Troops target opponent controls do not ready during opponents next prep phase


Same effect just easier to read and understand. No need to also adopt archaic wording from magic cards

The problem with this is your opponent constructs a warhulk and it enters play exhausted after the Menacing Gralk resolves and it can no longer ready as per your wording

Xenavire
01-05-2014, 08:13 PM
The problem with this is your opponent constructs a warhulk and it enters play exhausted after the Menacing Gralk resolves and it can no longer ready as per your wording

Perfect example of why these things are worded the way they are.

DackFayden
01-05-2014, 11:49 PM
The problem with this is your opponent constructs a warhulk and it enters play exhausted after the Menacing Gralk resolves and it can no longer ready as per your wording

Ahh good point. Never-mind awkward ruling might be necessary. Or overly wordy clause

Nekrabyte
01-06-2014, 03:47 PM
maybe the wording could've been a little better, but honestly, from playing M:tG for all the years that i have, i already felt like it was common knowledge you could tap something that was already tapped (but not tap for a cost). but that probably isn't the best way to think when it comes to a new game... makes me wonder about the percentage of people who end up playing once it gets released that have previously played M:tG