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View Full Version : A Pass-Priority tedium request: Using tech already in the game.



Malcolm
02-08-2014, 09:29 AM
Out of trying to patiently explain how Pass-priority, the stack, etc. work to my very S.O. who has never played any tcg before (well, a brief stint @ Pokemon to appease the child), out of Divine Need I had the following realization.

Summary Soln: Use the existing code in HEX, which already recognizes cards with Pass-Priority stack triggers, to only give them a chance to pass-priority if the system sees a chance to play a "stack trigger" card. If the player has none in hand, then the system auto-skips all Pass-Priority phases for them. This coding tweak would be neither difficult, nor costly, nor confusing.

example: Counter-Magic. HEX already is coded to see if Counter-Magic is playable on your opponents (or your own) turn. It will even light-up-outline the card for you when the appropriate time to play it comes up. Yet if you don't have the shard pool to play it on your turn (or the target is not valid such as your opponent playing a shard) it doesn't light up and isn't useable.

Coding these types of if/then recognitions into the system in general for all cards will steamline turns: If you don't have ANY abilities which will "stack trigger" with your opponent, then the game simply skips to End Turn or cycles your opponents turn.
If I'm playing a Ruby/Orc rush deck with no spells, and no stack interactions on my opponents turn (other than bonuses automatically generated or effects that Must Trigger), then I really don't need the option Pass-Priority anymore; and I can't complain if the chance isn't there because by my own choice and admission I've built a deck that doesn't give me that option.

This coding of card-interaction-recognition already exists within HEX's programming. To simply bundle it and then add some summary code of "If no If/then logic in stack = skip Pass-priority line statement" (obviously not the line but you get the drift) would help alot.

Take it one step further?
1.) Have the server scan each players deck for stack cards at the start and if none, remove Pass-Priority from the rest of the game from either or both as applicable.

Malakili
02-08-2014, 09:56 AM
Maybe allow it as an option, but it shouldn't be the only way it works. Bluffing having quick actions is important for control decks.

Xenavire
02-08-2014, 10:35 AM
Learning will take time, and it is something every new player will go through. But skipping possible options due to not having the cards at the time is bad.

As an option for new players, it can work. But don't expect the experienced players to use the option or take it easy on them.

Maybe a begginers mode would be useful, but in the end it seems like a lot of work for nothing.

DanTheMeek
02-08-2014, 10:52 AM
I think the game should have a option for this and have it enabled by default, but you can disable it, not-unlike the prep-phase auto-pass by default they have now. I really like this idea of just making it the most convient way by default, so you can still make things more inconvient in order to bluff and get a chance to react to every little thing, but a new player doesn't have that thrown in their face right from the get go. Oh, and it shouldn't be called beginner mode, but maybe normal mode while the other is like advanced or expert mode or something, so new players aren't scared away from it by the name and switch to the expert mode immediately.

Rendakor
02-08-2014, 01:30 PM
The idea doesn't work if you have mana-generating cards on the table (Hex Engine, Howling Brave), because then cards that are playable don't light up in your hand since you don't have the active mana to cast them.

If the next logical step is "don't auto pass if they have cards with usable abilities in play" then it will almost never auto pass. People sometimes don't have quick actions in hand, but it's incredibly rare that you don't have some kind of card in play that you can tap and activate an ability.

Yoss
02-08-2014, 03:06 PM
I'd love the OPTION to turn on "no bluffing" with a hotkey. Helps with timer management when you're in a long tight match.

Mr.Funsocks
02-08-2014, 10:05 PM
This seems like a very good way to make new players completely baffled as to wtf is going on in the game. Having a pause for you to act for new players is the best thing possible for them to be able to read each card and see what the effects are, rather than them just going "OH GOD WTF WHERE DID MY TROOP GO". And, as mentioned above, experienced players will almost never use it. Hell, I wouldn't use it because of the issue of not seeing effects resolve.

DanTheMeek
02-09-2014, 04:55 PM
You make a good point about beginners probably wanting to see what the opposing players card is before it resolves, even if they can't actually react to it. Maybe a compromise mode where you still get prompted if you want to react even if you have nothing that could react any time you're opponent plays a card or ability, giving new players a chance to read them and understand whats about to happen, but the prompt to react to the ending of opposing players phases or to react to the play of your own cards or abilities doesn't appear unless you actually have something that can react to those things.

Again, the mode would be enabled by default but can easily be turned off for forever by any player who wants the ability to bluff at every possible opportunity, but by having this mode be the default, by having these useless (outside of bluffing) removed, it would probably result in a slightly smoother and more enjoyable experience for new players or even experienced ones looking for a more casual game.

Danielius
02-10-2014, 10:06 AM
This idea sounds a lot like other suggestions made in another thread (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31058) where "bluff mode" has been discussed, and I'm in favor of anything that players can "toggle on" to speed up the gameplay.

What comes to worries about players not noticing what's going on, I imagine it's quite likely that Hex will eventually have a game log that will show every event that has happened since the start of a game. (Similar to that in Hearthstone where it's implemented as a sidebar at the left side of the screen.)

Vorpal
02-10-2014, 10:49 AM
I think by default, if you have no possible plays, it should just auto pass priority for you.

But this should be an option that can be toggled off by the more experienced player.

Trying to use the priority window so players can figure out what happened is a very poor solution indeed - there needs to be some sort of game log they can peruse for that. That is necessary even with no changes to the priority, IMO.

meetthefuture
02-12-2014, 12:40 AM
This seems like a very good way to make new players completely baffled as to wtf is going on in the game. Having a pause for you to act for new players is the best thing possible for them to be able to read each card and see what the effects are, rather than them just going "OH GOD WTF WHERE DID MY TROOP GO". And, as mentioned above, experienced players will almost never use it. Hell, I wouldn't use it because of the issue of not seeing effects resolve.
I hear the voice of reason here in those lands of darkness :)

The feature like this should never be implemented - Saying that new players will learn to play with it and then turn it off is like learning child to walk with a crooked nail saying he can throw it away when he grows up

Mr.Funsocks
02-13-2014, 11:13 AM
but by having this mode be the default...

You make it harder for new players to learn the game. It's as simple as that. The people that would want this smoothness are new players, but having it on by default for new players will make it far more difficult for them to learn the game, and likely frustrate enough that they stop playing.

Having it as an option, sure, whatever. Options are good. For casual games with a friend where we know what each others' decks contain anyway might make it useful. But on by default is a terrible idea.