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View Full Version : Weekly drafts and lotus gardens



TheFallen
03-15-2014, 01:26 PM
One question, when we get our KS rewards at the start of the closed beta, the lotus gardens will start producing lotus and we will have the weekly free drafts, or those 2 features are for release and not beta? Thank you.

Kroan
03-15-2014, 01:43 PM
I'm pretty sure we do get our weekly drafts, but the garden might be delayed until PvE is introduced (since it's a PvE card)

TheFallen
03-15-2014, 01:44 PM
I see, thanks!

Xenavire
03-15-2014, 01:55 PM
Considering it is a reward, we should still get it. Things we cannot use can just stay in our collections.

Kroan
03-15-2014, 02:45 PM
Considering it is a reward, we should still get it. Things we cannot use can just stay in our collections.

If we get it, that would mean they would have to develop the part where the card creates tokens and that those cards can't be used in decks. Besides it would also confuse some people, since they can't include it in their deck.

I'm not saying it won't be there, but if I would have to guess, I would say it won't be until PvE launches (that goes for every PvE card tbh)

Xenavire
03-15-2014, 02:56 PM
If we get it, that would mean they would have to develop the part where the card creates tokens and that those cards can't be used in decks. Besides it would also confuse some people, since they can't include it in their deck.

I'm not saying it won't be there, but if I would have to guess, I would say it won't be until PvE launches (that goes for every PvE card tbh)

Well considering the wording is 'Rewards will be given' and that there were so many complaints, I think any timed or consumable rewards that matter will be given directly after we monetise.

And I think that they have to already have that 'cannot be added to decks' tag, or PvE is far behind where it should be - if you can't make a deck that contains PvE and PvP cards, that would be correctly flagged as illegal in PvP, then you can't launch any part of PvE. I think this is the first PvE feature they will add (since deckbuilding is vital).

I think there would be a lot of complaints if the lotus 'timer' didn't start at the same time as free drafts etc, because they are a store able resource.

primer
03-15-2014, 04:02 PM
When we start playing for keeps we should get everything we're owed. Even if we cant use the lotus' we should still be able to produce them as they will hold a certain value.

Gwaer
03-15-2014, 04:12 PM
I don't like the ideof months of lotus gardens spitting out unusable lotuses. There will be so many when PVE launches to be basically worthless. =\

Xenavire
03-15-2014, 04:21 PM
I don't like the ideof months of lotus gardens spitting out unusable lotuses. There will be so many when PVE launches to be basically worthless. =\

I feel that a stockpile would lead to cheap prices etc, but people would burn through them. In the long run, it would be a drop in the bucket, and it would end up lowering the initial value a little to make things a little more available for everyone.

Besides, I am probably going to stockpile a decent chunk anyway. I imagine a lot of people would.

Gwaer
03-15-2014, 04:31 PM
That stockpiling should happen when people can actually use them. Not before hand. It's impossible to predict how that will affect the market. But I certainly do not like how I perceive it to happen. We have no was of knowing how much more demand there will be than supply, we have no idea how long it would take the market to correct. It's possible that lotuses could never have any value whatsoever if a large enough stockpile were made before the PVE launch.

Xenavire
03-15-2014, 04:44 PM
Well, it could take forever. Or we could treat all those as super cheap, dump them all on the AH when PvE launches, and rake in the pennies. People will then pop them, seeing the low price, and thinking they will get more, and eventually the stock will dry up.

At least, that is how I see it. I know I would rather stockpile some so I could blow through a few sets to create tigers for my friends who don't have the lotus garden like I do. I know I am basically destroying them for little actual gain, but I am much more interested in playing with my friends in raids etc at launch.

Besides, the way Cory hinted, I think we could see the arena raid at sometime in the first month or two of open beta. That would already be a good place to burn excess lotuses.

You can't forget they are consumable though Gwaer. As much as I consider the idea as value destroying, eventually it will balance out.

Yoss
03-15-2014, 06:57 PM
When we start playing for keeps we should get everything we're owed. Even if we cant use the lotus' we should still be able to produce them as they will hold a certain value.

This.

YourOpponent
03-15-2014, 09:18 PM
I hope that the lotus gardens start spawning lotuses when they come out. Sure that would make my lotuses incredibly cheap when pve comes out and it would likely lower the chances of getting rewards from doing a PvE first...but it at least allows those that can't make their own a taste of what they're like at a discount price before things get much more expensive. Sure I'm just speculating here, but I'm guessing that most people that make lotuses won't be selling them but saving them for difficult hard modes or for when new dungeons/raids come out to try to get the server first rewards. (After the initial flood of lotuses of course)

Xenavire
03-15-2014, 09:27 PM
I hope that the lotus gardens start spawning lotuses when they come out. Sure that would make my lotuses incredibly cheap when pve comes out and it would likely lower the chances of getting rewards from doing a PvE first...but it at least allows those that can't make their own a taste of what they're like at a discount price before things get much more expensive. Sure I'm just speculating here, but I'm guessing that most people that make lotuses won't be selling them but saving them for difficult hard modes or for when new dungeons/raids come out to try to get the server first rewards. (After the initial flood of lotuses of course)

Well, my thoughts are as follows - with a huge surplus of lotuses, supply will be more than or equal to demand. This will make the lotuses cheap, and people will be encouraged to offload them (as they are a free resource and do little by having a lot.)

However, as the supply dries up, and people realise there is still value in the unused lotus (cantrip for free, oh shit emergency button in a pinch) players will start holding the base lotus. This means demand should be a little lower, with the supply being fairly steady (at an increased price, the suppliers are likely to hold base lotuses as well, and sell their surplus.)

I forget what my point was, but I don't think an initial surplus will break the game. If every PvE player wanted to buy 4, there wouldn't be enough lotuses to go around. If PvE catches up fast enough, we may not even have enough for a single playset for every backer (including slacker backers).

Gwaer
03-15-2014, 09:33 PM
There are a lot of ifs. And if any one of them doesn't happen lotuses will never have any value. All of that could be remedied by not allowing them to actually make lotuses until PVE is launched. Don't forget that when you use them you can turn the tigers back into a lotus when you have a certain number of them. So supply goes down even slower

mach
03-15-2014, 10:09 PM
Anything that leads to there being a huge supply of Lotuses seems like a big flavor fail.

ossuary
03-16-2014, 04:22 PM
You people are talking like pro drug dealers, getting the kids hooked on cheap lotuses, then jacking the prices up when the supply runs dry. ;)

Xenavire
03-16-2014, 04:37 PM
You people are talking like pro drug dealers, getting the kids hooked on cheap lotuses, then jacking the prices up when the supply runs dry. ;)

Huh... Hadn't even thought of it like that - I just thought "Let's unload the stock cheap, so people can enjoy it. When it gets rarer, then we will all have to buckle the belts tighter." Interesting take on it oss :p

Yoss
03-16-2014, 04:38 PM
You people are talking like pro drug dealers, getting the kids hooked on cheap lotuses, then jacking the prices up when the supply runs dry. ;)

You caught onto my plot!

YourOpponent
03-16-2014, 04:52 PM
Correct, but if I recall correctly you need to own the Lotus Garden to turn 4 black tigers into a lotus.

YourOpponent
03-16-2014, 04:57 PM
Correct, but if I recall correctly you need to own the Lotus Garden to turn 4 black tigers into a lotus.


Huh... Hadn't even thought of it like that - I just thought "Let's unload the stock cheap, so people can enjoy it. When it gets rarer, then we will all have to buckle the belts tighter." Interesting take on it oss :p

Exactly what's the harm in some people having a little bit of fun. Sure it would mean people wouldn't be able to profit as much early on from lotuses in terms of value per lotus...but if those people really have such a huge issue with that then they can just hold onto them a few months later and release small amounts into the public at a time and reap more rewards than they would of if they didn't get those lotuses earlier.

I'm guessing that when lotuses are stable they will probably be 10 plat each anyway...so it's not like they will be expensive since potentially 8027 could be made each day from lotus garden. However let's say it is 2 months until pve comes out and open beta...let's say that they are spawning them that whole time...that is 8027 x 61 = 489,647. Yes that is a lot but counting slacker backers there are at least 27,000 would give each of them one with 381,647 lotuses to spare in that situation. As well I'm guessing there would be at least 100,000 new people as soon as things hit open beta which would mean we wouldn't even have enough for the new people. Yes that is still a large amount of them used...but the numbers already suggest how quickly they can be made....so it's not like you're going to be getting 100 plat a day from selling a spectral lotus...and it is ridiculous to convince yourself otherwise.

Xenavire
03-16-2014, 05:42 PM
Correct, but if I recall correctly you need to own the Lotus Garden to turn 4 black tigers into a lotus.



Exactly what's the harm in some people having a little bit of fun. Sure it would mean people wouldn't be able to profit as much early on from lotuses in terms of value per lotus...but if those people really have such a huge issue with that then they can just hold onto them a few months later and release small amounts into the public at a time and reap more rewards than they would of if they didn't get those lotuses earlier.

I'm guessing that when lotuses are stable they will probably be 10 plat each anyway...so it's not like they will be expensive since potentially 8027 could be made each day from lotus garden. However let's say it is 2 months until pve comes out and open beta...let's say that they are spawning them that whole time...that is 8027 x 61 = 489,647. Yes that is a lot but counting slacker backers there are at least 27,000 would give each of them one with 381,647 lotuses to spare in that situation. As well I'm guessing there would be at least 100,000 new people as soon as things hit open beta which would mean we wouldn't even have enough for the new people. Yes that is still a large amount of them used...but the numbers already suggest how quickly they can be made....so it's not like you're going to be getting 100 plat a day from selling a spectral lotus...and it is ridiculous to convince yourself otherwise.

I lost you a little there at the start, not entirely sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing. But the sentiment seems to be that you would rather 'spread the love' so to speak, and that lotuses will never be worth enough to be a scrooge about. I agree with that (for the first years at least) but someday the population will far outweigh the remaining gardens. So they might be worth something in the distant future. Still, spreading the love is an important thing.

something you left out of your calculations (even though you mentioned it) is that the playsets are all actually 5 lotuses in total (due to the potential trade in). Now in most cases I would rather keep the 4 tigers, but it would be possible to trade them in for almost another 100,000 ish. So we could manage to give everyone a taste as long as everyone was equally generous.

If only this was an ideal world haha. (Plus that added calculation physically requires everyone to burn all their lotuses, which will not happen.)

YourOpponent
03-16-2014, 06:33 PM
Yeah Xenavire I was agreeing with you. Also I forgot to add the extra lotus gardens from collector tiers, GK tiers and above...so that would be 1733 more lotuses introduced a day. Absolutely I agree with you that lotuses will become more valuable later...and especially so for the lotus gardens...much like in the way party hats in Runescape could be bought for 10,000 gold a few months after they came out (a one day holiday drop) and now (12 years later) they can be sold for 2.1 billion gold.

Gwaer
03-16-2014, 06:41 PM
That assumes PVE will be out two months later. I could be 6 months or more. We have no idea.
once everyone has a play set it only goes away at the speed people use them. Which may not even outstrip how quickly they are created for quite a while.

elfstone
03-19-2014, 08:57 AM
well don't forget you also need to login for it to generate. (pretty sure I read that somewhere). So in a way it turns into a daily :p. There will be alot of people not logging into Hex every day. Of course some of you psychos have like 5 lotus gardens. :p.


(Willing to upgrade my Pro player to a grand king if anyone is looking to downgrade)

mudkip
03-19-2014, 09:07 AM
Of course some of you psychos have like 5 lotus gardens. :p.

I'm betting there will be a cap on lotuses per account. I envision it as there will be slots for PvE account perks like the lotuses and you choose what to use. In the future, there will be other perk cards like "You begin with an extra 5 health" or "You get one free mulligan per game"

Gwaer
03-19-2014, 09:20 AM
Lotus gardens are just a card that can't be put into a deck. There's no cap on them. They aren't account perks. They can be traded and sold just like a normal card.

chili
03-19-2014, 12:57 PM
I think you guys don't realize how scarce these things will be, you want 4 in a deck and if 100,000 people play and only the 1% uses them there will not be enough production to keep up with demand.