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Gwaer
04-16-2014, 01:10 AM
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/04/15/jukebox-heroes-talking-to-hex-composer-michael-shapiro/


Lots of interesting bits in it. Not only do I love the music, but it's very informative about the game in general. Great article.

apologies if this was posted elsewhere and I'd missed it.

Mejis
04-16-2014, 02:48 AM
Awesome, thanks Gwaer, hadn't seen this.

Rokku
04-16-2014, 04:30 AM
err this is the first time I heard that Gas Powered Games was the original developer for HEX. That's quite huge!

hammer
04-16-2014, 05:16 AM
http://www.pcgamer.com/uk/2013/04/01/gas-powered-games-wargaming/

Mejis
04-16-2014, 05:44 AM
err this is the first time I heard that Gas Powered Games was the original developer for HEX. That's quite huge!

Was news to me too, but then I was late to the Kickstarter so prob missed a lot of details.

fido_one
04-16-2014, 06:15 AM
Definitely the first I heard about GPG being involved - color me very curious.

fido_one
04-16-2014, 06:21 AM
From the article:

"Fortunately Cryptozoic, the game's creator, had an enormous success raising continuation funds via Kickstarter."

Continuation funds? Was GPG doing this, they got bought out, and that's why Hex was brought to KS for CZE to finish it in house?

That would explain a lot. I always wondered why the message was 'we need your money to finish this game' was there on a game that was obviously already heavily invested in (a.k.a. I couldn't imagine the game not being completed even if KS didn't acquire its goal).

That also means the development time for a while, up until now, may have been understanding and tweaking a set of legacy code from GPG as much as it was continuing development. ...and that could help explain why CZE was so ridiculously off on their time frames.

Who knows why it wasn't ever mentioned - maybe it was in an MOU or something not to make the connection.

Still - very interesting!

bojanglesz
04-16-2014, 06:40 AM
Yeah that's super interesting. I'd say it's more interesting that we haven't heard about it until now!

Ertzi
04-16-2014, 07:04 AM
Great article. Thanks for posting!

Gwaer
04-16-2014, 09:23 AM
Yea, CZE getting their hands on it from someone they hired to do it in the first place could be responsible for a ton of things. If CZE was told the game was further along than it actually was or just didn't account for having to go rummaging through another mans code, that'd explain why the dates were so off, and why it took a while to start seeing features. Work has been accelerating at a great pace, which didn't make a whole lot of sense when I thought the same programmers were on the project the whole time. But makes a lot of sense now.

Xenavire
04-16-2014, 09:37 AM
Yeah, it explains a lot. And it was pretty classy of CZE to take the blame and the brunt of the complaints, rather than pointing the finger to what was, at the time, a severely crippled company, who had seemingly dropped the ball.

I feel like this explains the seemingly random milestone disparity, and the late Alpha (despite having a stable build at Gencon.)

bojanglesz
04-16-2014, 09:44 AM
Yeah, it explains a lot. And it was pretty classy of CZE to take the blame and the brunt of the complaints, rather than pointing the finger to what was, at the time, a severely crippled company, who had seemingly dropped the ball.

I feel like this explains the seemingly random milestone disparity, and the late Alpha (despite having a stable build at Gencon.)

To be fair, there is a shit load of speculation in this thread. Why are we all assuming that's what happened now?

Xenavire
04-16-2014, 09:56 AM
It is only speculation, but it still makes sense. And it does make me feel better than sitting there thinking 'Beta should have been months ago.'

I feel it does no harm to speculate about it either. But no, I don't think of it as solid fact, and nobody should unless we get some confirmation. It could be as simple as CZE losing a few members of their team because the two companies stopped working together, and that threw off their estimates. Or it could all be unrelated.

fido_one
04-16-2014, 11:42 AM
It is only speculation, but it still makes sense. And it does make me feel better than sitting there thinking 'Beta should have been months ago.'

I feel it does no harm to speculate about it either. But no, I don't think of it as solid fact, and nobody should unless we get some confirmation. It could be as simple as CZE losing a few members of their team because the two companies stopped working together, and that threw off their estimates. Or it could all be unrelated.

That it was never mentioned, at all, is a pretty big thing, and maybe associated with some legal stuff we'll never know about (which is fine, of course). CZE is still responsible for the messages and time frame it committed to (which I think, including the delays, has been a spectacularly good example for other companies to follow), but this proves there are hidden factors CZE won't or can't discuss that has affected Hex development in not-so-minor ways.

So while I agree that our applied outcomes are pure speculation, I think it is safe to say the GPG angle is definitely related to impacting the origin and development of Hex in some way [which we may never know].

ossuary
04-16-2014, 11:49 AM
That elven theme music is sweet.

Loregoyle
04-16-2014, 01:18 PM
That elven theme music is sweet.

Michael created a theme for each of the eight playable races, and he did a great job of giving each of them a distinctive flavor.

Xenavire
04-16-2014, 01:20 PM
Michael created a theme for each of the eight playable races, and he did a great job of giving each of them a distinctive flavor.

Cant wait to get into the PvP and hear all the music. I haven't been dissapointed yet with what we have access to, so I am pretty pumped to hear everything else.

Gwaer
04-16-2014, 02:03 PM
I'm super excited for the vennen theme, I love me some chanting.

Mr.Funsocks
04-16-2014, 04:30 PM
Actually already knew about the GPG connection, someone in IRC found it while digging through the files at some point. Felt it was something CZE would rather not have spread around since they hadn't mentioned it before ;) It really does make the game seem like a much more impressive story, surviving the calamity of GPG's end and being retooled by an entirely separate set of developers.

The music is pretty neat, I can't wait to hear how the melodies are reused. I actually love "variations on a theme" music, and it's a style that's incredibly conducive to video games, be interesting to see how the motifs are reused.

Niedar
04-16-2014, 06:52 PM
err this is the first time I heard that Gas Powered Games was the original developer for HEX. That's quite huge!

I mentioned many months back in the IRC channel I found references to them and/or Square Enix were involved in some form another with the project. I should have made a post about it but tbh I just didn't feel like putting in the effort.

Edit: Ahh wow, I did not read your post before replying in this thread Mr. Funsocks :)

Mr.Funsocks
04-16-2014, 11:47 PM
Edit: Ahh wow, I did not read your post before replying in this thread Mr. Funsocks :)

/wave :)

LNQ
04-17-2014, 03:15 AM
I don't know. Based on the Jukebox Heroes article, it sounds like CZE was working on the project from the beginning:

"I was brought aboard when the project was being developed by Gas Powered Games, and I was asked to write a relatively modest set of cues. After a while there was a publisher shuffle, and GPG was bought by another company. Fortunately Cryptozoic, the game's creator, had an enormous success raising continuation funds via Kickstarter. This meant among other happy things that we could significantly expand the amount of music in the game. I was thus brought aboard for a second and more ambitious round of scoring, this time working with Cryptozoic directly."

Then again, perhaps CZE was doing most of the TCG development while other people were working on the infrastructure, which would somewhat support the speculation on this thread about programming challenges.

gohan661
04-17-2014, 03:26 AM
Who even listens to music in MMOs? That is literally the third thing I change after graphic settings and profanity filter.

ossuary
04-17-2014, 04:38 AM
Who even listens to music in MMOs? That is literally the third thing I change after graphic settings and profanity filter.

Literally thousands of other people who do not share your exact opinion on things?

ossuary
04-17-2014, 04:41 AM
The music is pretty neat, I can't wait to hear how the melodies are reused. I actually love "variations on a theme" music, and it's a style that's incredibly conducive to video games, be interesting to see how the motifs are reused.

One of the coolest things I liked about the LOTR collector's edition was the documentary on the music, and seeing all the different ways in which the themes were interwoven, remixed, and reused. I love a good and well-made soundtrack, but even I had missed a few of the remixes / retoolings the first time through. It was really cool to go back and rewatch and hear the themes again after seeing that.

I was so pissed when I went ahead and bought the collector's edition again on blu-ray, and then found out it was just the same exact DVDs for the extras (they hadn't remastered them, or added any new documentaries, or anything) - I'd been looking forward to a "how we upgraded the film for blu-ray" documentary. Jerks. ;)

Niedar
04-17-2014, 06:49 AM
Then again, perhaps CZE was doing most of the TCG development while other people were working on the infrastructure, which would somewhat support the speculation on this thread about programming challenges.

When I was investigating it a couple months ago I came to that conclusion. At first I thought CZE bought the property off of them when they went under but then I thought about it more and I think I found some references to CZE working on it much earlier so thats really the thing that makes the most sense and explains a lot of things.

fido_one
04-17-2014, 03:48 PM
When I was investigating it a couple months ago I came to that conclusion. At first I thought CZE bought the property off of them when they went under but then I thought about it more and I think I found some references to CZE working on it much earlier so thats really the thing that makes the most sense and explains a lot of things.

Well what's also weird is GPG was abnormally public about their disbanding, Chris Taylor, the CEO, had like a solid hour interview with someone that detailed the crash and burn towards the end. I know he absolutely didn't want to be sold out to another company, but his [endearing] anxiety over keeping his people employed basically had him side on 'we'll do anything to keep afloat.' ...all of his very public disclosure of the issues with the company probably means that the NDA between CZE and GPG was pretty darn explicit as he never mentioned on the roadmaps any relationship with CZE or work on something like Hex.

So for those that saw GPG in the code/files - any dates? I'm assuming Hex development started between GPG's failed kickstarter (Wildman) and their buyout?

Mr.Funsocks
04-17-2014, 04:37 PM
The game had been worked on for 2 years at the time of the Hex Kickstarter, sooooo...

Xenavire
04-17-2014, 04:44 PM
It just occurred to me - it is sounding like Hex was in a dire position when it went on kickstarter. Not to the point it was going to be shut down, but I believe there is the distinct possibility that the game would not be in Alpha yet, let alone on the verge of Beta, and I also think that a lot of the features would be put on hold to try and force out the PvP experience (which I can say would be a lot more buggy than it is now.)

So, as it turns out, our 2.1ish million dollars that we brought to the table may have just saved the project, gave it new life, bought it a pair of crutches, and put it through rehab. I really think they made the best business decision of any company in their position - rather than scramble for another company to buy into their project, they crowdfunded a landslide victory and got everything they could have dreamed of.

I am feeling several different kinds of happy right now as I think about what could have gone wrong, and that we got this far.

syphonhail
04-17-2014, 06:55 PM
This also makes sense:


Server Engineer
Gas Powered Games
Privately Held; 11-50 employees; Computer Games industry
July 2012 – January 2013 (7 months) Redmond

Architecting/designing and implementing scalable back end solutions.
- Setup continuous integration environment using Cruisecontrol.NET
- Made a logging system that I thought was awesome, but turned out to be the standard way of making enterprise scale logger.. when the implementation was complete :/ So much for 'innovation'! Packages used - NLog, RabbitMQ, Logstash and Graylog, all on CentOS 6.2.
- Currently designing and implementing auto-scaling backend system for our game. The auto-scaling part is a custom solution. Now this... is going to be awesome! :) Using RabbitMQ.
Update Dec 01, 2012 - So the scaling portion is done. Now only auto part is left... and we have decided to add complete systems' monitoring to it too! Awesome is going to get a scalable name! :D
- Mid December 2012 - Because its theoretically scaling now, I have shifted to monitoring part since... Hand rolling configuration on 7 servers because I am using Nagios! o.O Other 21 servers will be configured via Chef scripts (which I will not be writing).

My love affair with Gas Powered had to end abruptly due to cancellation of all projects with the company within 8 weeks of each other :(

And now.... drumrolls.... I can talk about the game! http://www.hextcg.com

From http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dev-ghai/15/a69/a79

fido_one
04-18-2014, 07:05 AM
This also makes sense:



From http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dev-ghai/15/a69/a79

You, sir, should be a detective. Good find.

syphonhail
04-18-2014, 11:09 AM
You, sir, should be a detective. Good find.

I should mention that there is another linkedin profile that basically provides the same information; I didn't post it as it had a shorter job time-span on the project and didn't give us much new information, but for the curious:
http://seanmiddleditch.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/resume.pdf

Also, not too much detective work; the terms are relatively unique and easy to see what is available online using some google-fu.