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View Full Version : basic question: why boosters should be opened during drafts?



hlx
04-21-2014, 09:48 AM
hi there - this might (probably is) a very noobish question - I read in couple of threads that KS backers should open their boosters only during drafts and never "just" open them.

being a KS backer myself (king tier if that matters) and with beta coming soon - could someone explain it like I'm 5 what is the reason behind the statement above? What exactly do I gain from opening packs during draft? Is it because I can do a bit of cherry picking while drafting rather than be left with what I will find within a booster? Can I leave the draft after getting my share of cards without any penalty? This sounds like a dick move to me (is it?) however I might have days where I don't have time/focus to play through draft and want only new cards. In situation where I want to open around 50 packs just to build up my collection - should I really go for 18 drafts rather than just open them all at once?

some very basic questions - I know - just want to optimize the hell out of my KS rewards during beta

stiii
04-21-2014, 09:54 AM
Drafts cost $1 to enter and give out 12 boosters worth of prizes. If you win half your games you get 1.5 boosters on average which is worth more than $1.

An_Idiot
04-21-2014, 09:58 AM
my understanding of that statement is; you have to bring three unopened boosters to a draft in addition to the draft fee. So in order to Draft for a lower cost (only the entry fee) don't open any boosters outside of the draft and use them only to draft with.

someone else correct me if i'm wrong, but that seems to be the intent behind the statement.

I personally won't be opening all my cards in draft, but I might leave a few packs unopened for that reason.

Tinuvas
04-21-2014, 10:05 AM
Opening packs outside of a draft just for the experience (and to take in sweet loot) is by no means a BAD thing, but there are a couple of reasons why I won't be opening them outside of a draft:
1. Drafts cost $1 when you bring 3 packs to the table, $7 if you don't. I am not made of money, and I LOVE drafting.
2. If you pony up for a draft, you have a very decent chance of getting even MORE packs if you win anything in a swiss type tourney (you need more wins in a 'competitive' draft, but *shrug*). So, for me, not only do I get to do what I enjoy, but if I win at all, I get even MORE packs, which means even MORE cheap drafts, which means even MORE cards for my collection...and so on. :)

Quasari
04-21-2014, 10:08 AM
Its because inside a draft you have more freedom over the cards you'll get than if you open them yourself. 24 packs are quite a bit bigger pool than 3 packs. Also, you have better chances at pulling more than 3 rares in some cases and there is also the prize possibility.

hlx
04-21-2014, 10:12 AM
So the assumption is for people interested in pvp/drafting in general?
I am focused towards pve and constructed - so given all that I won't be loosing anything when opening *most* of my packs outside of drafts?

hlx
04-21-2014, 10:19 AM
Its because inside a draft you have more freedom over the cards you'll get than if you open them yourself. 24 packs are quite a bit bigger pool than 3 packs. Also, you have better chances at puling more than 3 rates in some cases and there is also the prize possibility.

So to see if I understood you correctly - during draft I could possibly go for particular color or deck type and have higher chance to get it ( since others might be going for different cards) than with solo opening packs? On top of that I might actually not suck completely and win some more packs. Question I have is could I (assuming I don't have time for a whole draft) just draft my deck and leave without any penalty - be it loosing cards or getting bad rep?

Gwaer
04-21-2014, 10:22 AM
There will be rare drafters that pick cards and leave. I don't know of any plans to punish those people.

Quasari
04-21-2014, 10:24 AM
People playing for prizes would be happy for you to leave as a bye helps them very much.

dogmod
04-21-2014, 10:25 AM
So to see if I understood you correctly - during draft I could possibly go for particular color or deck type and have higher chance to get it ( since others might be going for different cards) than with solo opening packs? On top of that I might actually not suck completely and win some more packs. Question I have is could I (assuming I don't have time for a whole draft) just draft my deck and leave without any penalty - be it loosing cards or getting bad rep?

Free wins for other people although most people Are likely playing for the experience and not the wins.

Pay 1 dollar and get a chance to draft more rares and or the specific card you want. Also the ability to win some packs if you choose to stay around.

hex_colin
04-21-2014, 10:25 AM
It all depends on how you value your time... I LOVE drafting - I do it all the time. But I'm not likely to use it as a way to try to derive maximum value from my packs.

noragar
04-21-2014, 10:32 AM
There are people around who will spend hours of time and trouble doing stuff I can't imagine would be fun for them to be doing in order to squeeze out an extra 10 cents worth of expected value. But, in the end, it's a game and if you're going to be focused on PvE and Constructed, then there's nothing wrong with just opening your packs instead of drafting with them.

I especially wouldn't draft with them if you intend to just draft your cards then leave without playing the games because then you wouldn't get the benefit of being able to win extra packs for your 100 platinum entry fee. It remains to be seen, but I highly doubt that even someone 100% rare drafting (always taking the highest $ value card with each pick instead of trying to form a competitive deck) would get 100 platinum added value over just opening up their three packs.

As far as whether doing so would be a "dick move", there was a discussion about it a while back with opinions on both sides, but I doubt I'll be able to find the thread. Personally, I wouldn't give it a second thought if someone decided to drop out and I'd be perfectly happy to get the bye.

YourOpponent
04-21-2014, 10:34 AM
Here's a list of different ways to draft which might help you decide.

Drafting allows you to get rares and uncommons more easily if you're not concerned with winning...this is called rare farming. It is seen as a jerk move by some people (personally I like it when they do that and drop because that means I get at least 1 win for the Swiss tourny), but for the majority this is going to be done in swiss draft (with a small percentage in single elimination draft) Note: Swiss draft is the easiest way to get booster packs back and can even done with decks without rares or legendaries. Note: this way you might actually be able to rare farm here and still win a round or two...so unless you are time restrained don't leave the tournament after drafting.

If you enjoy draft and are skilled at it (or are trying to avoid rare farmers) then I would recommend single elimination draft. This would also be a better spot to rare farm than swiss, but if you rare farm this way you probably aren't going to even win a single round due to people likely having more stable decks than you.

Personally though if I were the OP I would recommend doing Sealed. This way you open up 6 of your packs at a time, which you seem eager to open most of your packs as quickly as possible. This sounds like something you would be more interested in and you get to keep whatever you opened. I think that there is only single elimination for sealed so the tournaments would go by quickly and you still have a chance of getting 8 packs if you win all 3 rounds or 4 packs if you lost in round 3.

Drafting though is also useful for making your own "starter deck" more easily than just opening 3 packs the normal way...This could be very useful for "improving" that starter deck by going for the same theme each draft (which isn't a good idea when you're more of a pro at drafting)...however that idea could be useful if you're looking for specific cards for a deck that you liked in Alpha constructed play and are trying to get that deck made in time for the Hex Pro tournament...without having to rely on the Auction House.

Personally though I'm going to focus on the Sealed tournaments to get through the 150 packs from KS more easily and still have a chance of getting more packs...because doing draft I fear would involve pumping in more platinum by buying it with cash...or having to rare draft to only end up selling the rares to get the platinum to keep drafting...which seems pretty inconvenient and a bad idea with the flood of set 1 packs...but I doubt that 3 "random" rares will sell for 100 platinum.

hlx
04-21-2014, 10:39 AM
Thanks guys, all clear now - I think I'll open up couple of packs to build initial collection and draft few times to see how much of a time investment it will be.

Completely random question but is there any news when pve update is coming? I assume not with the closed beta?

stiii
04-21-2014, 10:45 AM
So the assumption is for people interested in pvp/drafting in general?
I am focused towards pve and constructed - so given all that I won't be loosing anything when opening *most* of my packs outside of drafts?

With trading there isn't much point in opening packs outside of draft. People who do want to draft will buy packs for more than the average value of cards opened. However as we don't currently have trading this doesn't currently apply. In general the other threads were working with the assumption there would be trading.

Gwaer
04-21-2014, 10:48 AM
PVE will not be until after open beta. PVE is slated for release. We'll probably see a test dungeon I'd guess towards the end of open beta. But I'd not expect much more than that before the game launches.

Turtlewing
04-21-2014, 10:48 AM
The two advantages of opening pack in draft are:

1. The chance to win more packs by winning the draft.
Since there is a $1 entry fee this depends somewhat on how good a drafter you are. If on average you at least .5 pack per draft this will be a net gain (I think depending on format that works out to be 50% chance of getting into the top half of the final ranking). Most people giving the "always open via draft" advice are competitive drafters for whom this is probably true. If you can't average at least enough wins to break even on the entry fee this advice is counter-productive.

2. You get to choose your cards from a larger pool when drafting.
You'll get as many cards as are in 3 packs out of a draft, but you'll see (and choose from) manny more than that many cards (I'm too lazy to do the math). This is similar to playing poker with 7 cards and making the best 5 card hand out of those 7 instead of playing with a 5 card hand.

The disadvantage to opening pack in draft is:

The opportunity cost.
While you're drafting you aren't beating a raid, or fine-tuning your constructed deck, etc. Depending how much you like drafting this may be a non-issue or it may be a deal breaker; especially since if you don't like the draft format you also probably aren't very good at it. So you may be looking at paying $1 and spending time on something tedious just to see more cards which could easily be a net loss value wise.

YourOpponent
04-21-2014, 10:50 AM
Thanks guys, all clear now - I think I'll open up couple of packs to build initial collection and draft few times to see how much of a time investment it will be.

Completely random question but is there any news when pve update is coming? I assume not with the closed beta?

Yeah I'd recommend sealed over draft. As for PvE...I am guessing that will come installments, but I wouldn't expect more than a dungeon or two before the game is live (not even open Beta). However I could see chests being opened by May, them doing mercenaries by June, equipment by August, talent trees by September, first dungeon by October/November and going live by December.

These estimates may be a little off near the end, but in January I was guessing closed Beta would be out near the end of May.

Yoss
04-21-2014, 10:56 AM
By drafting your packs, you're trading time for value. If you have lots of time, then Draft is a good way to get the most value out of your packs. If you have little time but lots of money and you prefer Constructed over Draft, then feel free to just open your packs and head over to Constructed (or PvE when it's available). If you're in between, then bounce back and forth from Constructed to get packs and then to Draft to consume your winnings.

This quote might help as well:

Every 8 player draft queue introduces the contents of 24 boosters to the economy at the cost of 12 (24 entry minus 12 payout) and 800 platinum. It doesn't matter how games go, what the players win rates are or anything like that if you look at the economy as a whole. This also sets a very strict soft limit on the secondary market value of booster contents: As each draft firing drains at most 3200 platinum from the economy (entry fee + 12 store bought boosters) the contents of an average booster cannot meaningfully exceed 133 platinum or else drafting becomes profitable to the player base as a whole, a situation that cannot be sustainable long term.

Looking at it in a different light, participating in a draft queue is effectively opening booster packs at the cost of 133 platinum each for the average player, so if you want to open boosters and play average in limited it is cheaper to draft than to crack boosters as long as they cost more than 133 platinum in the AH.

In short, while the store price of a booster is 200 platinum, CZE are also already selling you opened boosters at a rate of 133 platinum just by the structure of limited events. Experience with the MTGO economy suggests that the secondary market value of boosters ranges between these two figures, depending on how fun people perceive the limited format to be, and in formats that use boosters from multiple sets the relative values can change drastically depending on the ratio of boosters needed to boosters paid out of each set. (Traditionally, the third set boosters are worth a lot less relatively because they make up a significant portion of the prize payout structure but are consumed at the same rate as the first set boosters, creating a strong disparity in availability on the market.)

Westane
04-21-2014, 11:13 AM
I can't draft to save my life, nor do I really have fun in limited with the exception of the occasional release sealed events. So for me it's...

Option C: Sell packs for plat, use plat to buy singles!

Problem is, who knows when the AH is going live, and I think selling packs early will be not great.

YourOpponent
04-21-2014, 11:43 AM
I can't draft to save my life, nor do I really have fun in limited with the exception of the occasional release sealed events. So for me it's...

Option C: Sell packs for plat, use plat to buy singles!

Problem is, who knows when the AH is going live, and I think selling packs early will be not great.

On April 1st there was an interview with Corey. In the interview he said that if the AH wasn't out by the time Closed Beta came out then it would be at the top of the list. With the next thing on the list being guilds. So it would be reasonable to say that the AH will be out in 2-3 weeks at the latest.

hlx
04-21-2014, 01:37 PM
even with AH being close, with only handful beta testers (compared to expected users at launch) prices will be high and market wont be saturated with commons, uncommons, not to mention rares and up

Zomnivore
04-21-2014, 02:44 PM
1. You get to play in a unique game mode.

2. You get value by picking exactly what cards you acquire, from a larger pool of cards.

3. You have random potential to acquire more rares or higher value cards through drafting.

4. The time it takes to draft, and the rewards for drafting through prizes, along side the bonuses of picking your own cards have some seriously added value. As well as the value of the content of getting to play against opponents.

Jonesy
04-21-2014, 02:52 PM
People are forgetting that if you draft/sealed your packs you don't get any chests, which if you are a PvE player, are probably going to hold a lot of value for you.

Yoss
04-21-2014, 02:58 PM
People are forgetting that if you draft/sealed your packs you don't get any chests, which if you are a PvE player, are probably going to hold a lot of value for you.

Actually, you do still get chests. They drop into your inventory.

Marsden
04-21-2014, 03:00 PM
People are forgetting that if you draft/sealed your packs you don't get any chests, which if you are a PvE player, are probably going to hold a lot of value for you.

Er, no. That's wrong. You get everything you are due however you buy/open your packs. Be that chance of a bonus Primal pack, chests, whatever.

Ginaz
04-21-2014, 10:34 PM
I'll probably open a few packs but save most of them for drafts. With the sheer number of cards my guild is going to have, card availability is going to be a non-issue. BEHOLD!!!

Set 1 Boosters // 12345 (well done on keeping this number awesome by mistake)
Set 2 Boosters // 3157
Set 3 Boosters // 1157
Guaranteed Primal Boosters // 79
Normal Starters // 337
Dragon's Blood Starter // 78
Free Drafts (one time use) // 261
VIP Months // 237 (this comes out to another 8,532 booster packs @ 237*3*12)
1 of Each Crafting Component // 78 (Yes, that is 78 full sets of crafting materials)
Bonus Legendary Equipment // 156 (lawdy)
Exclusive Alternative Art (Collector) // 540
Free Set 1 Boosters from Guild Leader // 3600 (jesus)
Bonus Equipment // 800
Free Draft per Week for Life // 67 (we are getting 3,484 free drafts a year)
Chest'O Hex // 219 (54 playsets)
Princess Cory // 219 (54 playsets)
Lady Cassandra // 219 (54 playsets)
Void Marauder // 209 (52 playsets)
Spectral Assassin // 209 (52 playsets)
Prospero, Sylvan Enchanter // 207 (52 playsets)
Orson's Dream // 207 (52 playsets)
Crowd Roars // 207 (52 playsets)
Scourge Knight // 203 (50 playsets)
Moment of Glory // 203 (50 playsets)
Ninja Training // 203 (50 playsets)
The Wrath of Zakiir // 203 (50 playsets)
Spectral Lotus Garden // 123 (123 per day / 44,895 per year)
Replicator's Gambit // 209 (52 playsets)
Princess Victoria // 207 (52 playsets)
Extinction // 203 (50 playsets)
Rage Fire // 203 (50 playsets)
Pack Raptor // 201 (50 playsets)

Gwaer
04-21-2014, 10:46 PM
Yea, I have about that many.

Jonesy
04-22-2014, 03:48 PM
Actually, you do still get chests. They drop into your inventory.

Weird, I've done 2 drafts and when I open packs the only chests I see are the ones Ive gotten from packs, no extra ones...granted I can't even find my stash, but when I open packs there are all my 'no spin' chests from previously opened packs.

Marsden
04-22-2014, 03:56 PM
Weird, I've done 2 drafts and when I open packs the only chests I see are the ones Ive gotten from packs, no extra ones...granted I can't even find my stash, but when I open packs there are all my 'no spin' chests from previously opened packs.

You're not actually opening packs in that way in draft right now.