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View Full Version : [Suggested Feature] "Kickstarter Upgrade Slacker".



dwebber88
04-22-2014, 04:32 PM
PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST AND THE EDITS BEFORE YOU POST ANOTHER "SORRY NO".

THE GOAL OF THIS THREAD IS NOW TO DISCUSS AND SUGGEST WHAT COULD BE POSSIBLE, NOT WHAT ISN'T :)

-- initial post below --

Reason why:

So i was wondering about; how to possibly rethink your choice of backer-tier after the kickstarter ended but not feeling sorry about feeling you've made the wrong choice.

Since trading accounts or kickstarter redeem codes are not supported (with good reason), there is actually nothing you can do to still get that tier you couldn't efford back then, or didn't see the fun or value of (unlike some experienced tcg-players).

Benefits:

So i thought of a limited period feature where CZE could make some more money and players some more satisfaction, without diminishing others' choices value.

Suggested Feature:

So for sake of it having a name: "Kickstarter Upgrade Slacker"
Example period of time: First 3 months from the point where the kickstarter redeem codes are released to the players.
Options: Upgrade to a maximum of 1 tier higher then initially backed. BUT:

- Pay (say) 150% of the additional costs.
or
- Do not get all the benefits, but atleast the ones that last for life.

Then of course there are some details to be worked out.

Some examples of how it would work:

A Supporter Tier -> Upgrades to Squire lesser substitute:
- Pays the $10 additional costs
- Gets 1 out of the 2 Starterdecks from Squire
- Gets 10 out of the 20 Boosterpacks
- Gets the Lady Cassandra Exclusive card

In this example the player that upgraded is happy, and the player that payed the same $20 total still has way more worth for the same money.

In turn a King Tier -> Upgrades to Pro lesser substitute:
- Pays the $130 additional costs
- Does NOT get into the Pro player tournament, since you're still only an upgraded king tier
- Does NOT get the additional stretch goal bonusses for Pro tier
- Gets the free draft each week for life

Or a King Tier -> Upgrades to Guild Master lesser substitute:
- Pays the $130 additional costs
- Gets to be a guild master with benefits aswell.

Any Dungeon Crawler ($250 tier) -> Upgrades to get Guild Master (also $250 tier) lesser substitute next to his own specialty:
- Pays something like $100 additional costs
- Gets to be a guild master as well as the dungeon crawler (which he already had).

This way people have a limited period of time, to choose from nice ways to improve their account and make it real special. Also not everyone has to be divided into 114 "must be in one of those" guilds.


Conclusion

Ofcourse this is just a suggestion. In the end CZE would potentially get way more money to put in the game, without being greedy. Players still have that last opportunity to get that little bit of extra. Players that dont want it dont need to, since they're already settled and will still have the better value.

It can be made so that there are more opportunities but also so that people that dont want to upgrade, are still satisfied, because they payed less to get more.

Please

Think about it a little bit, before you post your reaction. I can see some people that are settled opposing the idea, but this about creating opportunities, not about making anyone worse. It should be made so that it will be a win for everyone.

-- edits below --

Edit1:

As pointed out by hex_colin: "CZE promised to never make the KS tiers and rewards available after the KS was over."

This does not rule out the entire idea of this thread however.

There could still be some upgrade options that are available for a limited time.

Since alternate art cards are awesome, one of these options could be to have a lifetime subscription to alternate art cards, distinct from the ones in the collector tier.

Or other (lifetime) subscriptions for that matter.

A thing that should count however is that it should be available for those who helped raise the funds to create HEX, as pointed out by Gwaer "Every single high tier was a high risk high reward offer".

Kami
04-22-2014, 04:40 PM
This topic has been discussed to death.

There is literally no good reason for CZE to do this. Each 'higher' tier offers a significant discount, and in some cases, lifetime benefits. They would more likely lose money doing this than gain.

Not to mention the extraordinary amount of ill-will they would generate amongst those that backed early on at the tiers they could afford.

I understand the sentiments of those that wish they had a higher tier backing but at this point, it's done.

dwebber88
04-22-2014, 04:52 PM
This topic has been discussed to death.

There is literally no good reason for CZE to do this. Each 'higher' tier offers a significant discount, and in some cases, lifetime benefits. They would more likely lose money doing this than gain.

Not to mention the extraordinary amount of ill-will they would generate amongst those that backed early on at the tiers they could afford.

I understand the sentiments of those that wish they had a higher tier backing but at this point, it's done.

I thought about the downsides you are stating, and i also wrote why it doesn't neccesarily have to be a downside to anyone.

As for the lifetime benefits, ofcourse CZE wouldn't lose money by having people pay for it upfront. Its not like they earn money by creating alternate art cards, or lose any money for having a few more guild leaders and a few more "1 free draft per week". Quite the opposite.

I myself have grown to love CZE and their game, so much even, that i've done everything in my power to contribute. Created the bot for twitch users, helped creating bugs lists, reported over a hundred bugs, reported security leaks, volunteered for the security testing platform. All i ever wished for is to get my hands on a collector, to feel like i'm actually here from the start and that it meant something.

But then i didn't post this thread (solely) for myself, but to suggest the idea to try (again) and make everyone's life better.

hex_colin
04-22-2014, 04:53 PM
http://awesomegifs.com/2012/07/beating-a-dead-horse/

dwebber88
04-22-2014, 04:58 PM
http://awesomegifs.com/2012/07/beating-a-dead-horse/

Quite the contribution. Anyway i'm waking the horse from the dead, with a new idea. Not some abstract thought.

I've known CZE to be open to suggestions.

hex_colin
04-22-2014, 05:00 PM
Quite the contribution. Anyway i'm waking the horse from the dead, with a new idea. Not some abstract thought.

The gif is awesome - it says it in the URL! ;)

It's not a new idea. It's the same idea as 100 times before. Thus the gif. It's just not going to happen.

Gwaer
04-22-2014, 05:01 PM
Every single high tier was a high risk high reward offer. I gave CZE thousands of dollars... Heck, I gave CZE more money than the cost of every car I have ever owned added together, which is 5 vehicles... =P

Now that the risk is largely mitigated, the game is going to launch for certain, it makes no sense to give people huge pack discounts, or any of the other perks in mass upgrade situation like this. I think they would probably make more money by actually holding an auction of all of the refunded tiers, I could totally get behind that, let everyone bid for a limited resource to its maximum value.

Daer
04-22-2014, 05:01 PM
Not happening.

Cirouss
04-22-2014, 05:01 PM
Even if it has been discussed, most times people were asking for directly buying kickstarter tiers afterwords which webber is not aiming for.

I think his ideas are on a very good way to be the balance between: Hey you missed the kickstarter tiers, but can still get something very cool but its not as good as the original kickstarter tiers (money / gain wise) and which is something worth (I know there is a slacker backer, but thats nothing compared to the kickstarter tiers).

This would

a) Support CZE even further by selling tiers that are not as much worth as the original tiers but still generate money to work with
b) People would still be able to get some cool stuff

So both sides would be pretty happy using this system.

Just saying it has been discussed to death and not really giving good arguments is prob. not the way (no offense).

So I like the idea and the balance it offers.

Gwaer
04-22-2014, 05:03 PM
It doesn't balance anything, it takes money directly from CZE by selling packs at a discount right before their launch where you can buy packs.

The biggest issue from the KS is that there is too much product available, people are projecting the first set boosters to sell for less than 1 dollar a pack, adding even more incredibly cheap packs just hurts the game as a whole.

hex_colin
04-22-2014, 05:13 PM
Just saying it has been discussed to death and not really giving good arguments is prob. not the way (no offense).

CZE promised to never make the KS tiers and rewards available after the KS was over. Discussion over.

Sure, they could have new incentives, with brand new cards, and brand new lifetime benefits. Hell, I'd probably give them more piles of cash. But no combination of KS rewards, no matter how much more expensive, and no matter what you take out, are going to get sold for any reason.

dwebber88
04-22-2014, 05:18 PM
Every single high tier was a high risk high reward offer. I gave CZE thousands of dollars... Heck, I gave CZE more money than the cost of every car I have ever owned added together, which is 5 vehicles... =P

Now that the risk is largely mitigated, the game is going to launch for certain, it makes no sense to give people huge pack discounts, or any of the other perks in mass upgrade situation like this. I think they would probably make more money by actually holding an auction of all of the refunded tiers, I could totally get behind that, let everyone bid for a limited resource to its maximum value.

While i totally get what you're saying. I'm talking about an upgrade of max 1 tier, where you get a lesser substitute. So less risk, less reward ofcourse.

By saying "upgrading" that would also mean that slacker backers can only get as high as the lesser substitute for warrior. Someone that didn't bare any risk (did not contribute the kickstarter) would not be able to upgrade to anything. Just an opportunity for people that already bared risk, to get that little upgrade in. And for CZE to make some more money ofcourse.

I hope not all people that are already satisfied post negative feedback just so others dont get the opportunity or atleast a fair presentation of a suggested feature.

Kami
04-22-2014, 05:21 PM
While i totally get what you're saying. I'm talking about an upgrade of max 1 tier, where you get a lesser substitute. So less risk, less reward ofcourse.

By saying "upgrading" that would also mean that slacker backers can only get as high as the lesser substitute for warrior. Someone that didn't bare any risk (did not contribute the kickstarter) would not be able to upgrade to anything. Just an opportunity for people that already bared risk, to get that little upgrade in. And for CZE to make some more money ofcourse.

While I don't advocate for this at all, the only way that this could be remotely 'fair' would be to disallow ANY of the lifetime benefits and/or restrict upgrades to below King tier (in other words, you cannot upgrade to King tier or higher).

Rendakor
04-22-2014, 05:22 PM
If you want good arguments, go look at one of the other 1000 threads on this subject. Here's the one with Shaq's response, from December:
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=31432&page=5

When we launched the Kickstarter, we committed to making these rewards a one-time-only offer, and we're going to stick by our word just as our playerbase would expect us to honor any other commitment we've made. Trust is necessary between the HEX team and our community of players, especially since our Kickstarter backers made this project possible, and we shall not go back on our promise.

We've provided additional ways for players to join the HEX community post-Kickstarter campaign through the Slacker Backer donation, and we've even buffed the rewards since opening that up to players. Thank you to those who came in through Slacker Backer to back HEX; we hope you can understand that we must make good on our word to our players, and that will stay true throughout the life of HEX.

dwebber88
04-22-2014, 05:35 PM
CZE promised to never make the KS tiers and rewards available after the KS was over. Discussion over.

Sure, they could have new incentives, with brand new cards, and brand new lifetime benefits. Hell, I'd probably give them more piles of cash. But no combination of KS rewards, no matter how much more expensive, and no matter what you take out, are going to get sold for any reason.

Fair point there! Thanks for your input Colin. Edit: (not sarcasm)

fido_one
04-22-2014, 05:45 PM
I think Colin is justified here in being so frank - it's not going to happen. Dwebber, I know you're trying to make a reasoned argument, and your OP isn't trolling, but this has been discussed from every angle and CZE has been ridiculously clear.

Even with your suggested incentives it would totally screw the slacker backers (make that package an inferior deal) - also, if CZE was even playing with the idea, they would have left the slacker backer option open past closed beta. At some point the 'deal' has to end for the market to stabilize, and as of April 1st, CZE spoke with their dollars (revenue stream) that the door is closed for a long while.

YourOpponent
04-22-2014, 06:07 PM
Sorry no. This idea has already been discussed to death. As it is in the past there has been King tiers awarded to those that do well in the HextcgPro tournaments...so if you're wanting an "upgrade" or just more stuff I would recommend that alternative. Likewise since those codes have been given by Corey for those purposes...so I'm guessing that whatever other available codes that were refunded or whatever might be given away as prizes too for other tournaments within a year's time...for large tournaments of course or special tournaments such as the tournament going on at HexCon (I thin that's in September in Las Vegas, NV but it's been awhile on an update about it.)

I'm not saying that because I'm happy or selfish...I would go for a tier upgrade myself in a heart beat, but what you don't realize is that the tiers that are above King have a thing called a hidden cost that it's stronger than the previous tiers even. If you don't know what a hidden cost it's along the lines of just that $130 + $120 you suggested to go from King to Pro tier...that would be $250...but they would be getting a free draft a week for life. If you look at that as we'll say $4 a draft done a week by a Pro that is a $220 value from the first year alone. After that it's Crypto hurting their self past the $250 mark. You might not understand why because it's free for them to make the cards...but the truth of the matter is if the person didn't have the Pro tier they (or somebody else would of) would be buying the packs...that is the hidden cost.

Also it is bad for the community's morale for a game to go back on their word after they've said something. Many gaming industries have lost MILLIONS of dollars a year of money they would of otherwise earned due to going back on their word from players quitting.

dwebber88
04-22-2014, 06:18 PM
Updated the OP

fido_one
04-22-2014, 06:29 PM
Dwebber,

If you are looking for more value, read the 'booster pack set one value' threads - there is a solid theory going around that given the KS influx of boosters, set one boosters could be as low as a dollar in the AH during closed/open beta. That's almost-as-good-as-KS value before other people (read: Hex-Colin) buy them up.

SilverDirewolf
04-23-2014, 12:10 AM
As much as I'd love something like that, it's just not going to happen.

I should first mention that I'm only a Slacker Backer, and so would of course love to be able to get KS level rewards if I could. Not from lack of interest at the time, I just simply didn't know about it at the time. I try to keep up with video game news, but it's astonishing the number of interesting KickStarters that pass me by.

However, I totally understand and more importantly respect that CZE are sticking to their word and perhaps even more, more importantly showing respect to their veteran fans. Their word is their strongest tool imo.

I played Scrolls a good bit last year, played it from as soon as you could buy in. Played for months and months, eagerly awaiting the fourth faction, Decay, to be implemented. When it was introduced they had a week only deal, in that if you bought the game that week, you got a decay starter deck free too. Whereas veterans got nothing but crappy avatar skin that no one cared about. They could easily have respected their long time fans too, but chose not to. Haven't played in ages, and the game is pretty much dead I think.

Kroan
04-23-2014, 12:28 AM
Thanks for your idea, dwebber. However besides the fact they would break one of their biggest promises during kickstarter it would be completely unfair to a) slackerbackers and b) everyone who put in money when the project was on kickstarter.

If you want to support them and give them more money, spend money in the game. If you really want kickstarter collector's edition, find someone to sell them to you.

I pretty much agree with Colin, this has been asked multiple times already. You've been a great help to the community, just like others. The reward for that should come out of the fact that you love the game.