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Athravan
04-26-2014, 12:50 PM
I am not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted, or if it is all regions or just the UK so sorry if this is in the wrong place.

800 Plat = 4.99
1600 Plat = 9.99 (or 9.98 if you buy 2x800) so 2p more expensive
4000 Plat = 24.99 (or 24.95 if you buy 5x800) so 5p more expensive.
8000 Plat = 49.99 (or 49.90 if you buy 10x800) so 10p more expensive.
16000 Plat = 99.99 (or 99.80 if you buy 20x800) so 20p more expensive.

So right now it is cheaper (obviously only a small amount) to always buy in 800 and never to buy a bigger sum at once.

hex_colin
04-26-2014, 12:52 PM
I am not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted, or if it is all regions or just the UK so sorry if this is in the wrong place.

800 Plat = 4.99
1600 Plat = 9.99 (or 9.98 if you buy 2x800) so 2p more expensive
4000 Plat = 24.99 (or 24.95 if you buy 5x800) so 5p more expensive.
8000 Plat = 49.99 (or 49.90 if you buy 10x800) so 10p more expensive.
16000 Plat = 99.99 (or 99.80 if you buy 20x800) so 20p more expensive.

So right now it is cheaper (obviously only a small amount) to always buy in 800 and never to buy a bigger sum at once.

However, apparently if you reach some threshold of transactions, you get barred. :P Might not be a great idea to run loads of smaller transactions... YMMV...

Raith
04-26-2014, 01:49 PM
I call that a rounding error. :P I noticed it, but honestly it probably isn't worth the effort to make that many transactions.

deejay
04-26-2014, 02:01 PM
Wish I could pay in USD as that bank provider is more understanding - sadly with one payment on my standard GBP card it got blocked! Hopefully cleared up now.

primer
04-26-2014, 02:10 PM
I am not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted, or if it is all regions or just the UK so sorry if this is in the wrong place.

800 Plat = 4.99
1600 Plat = 9.99 (or 9.98 if you buy 2x800) so 2p more expensive
4000 Plat = 24.99 (or 24.95 if you buy 5x800) so 5p more expensive.
8000 Plat = 49.99 (or 49.90 if you buy 10x800) so 10p more expensive.
16000 Plat = 99.99 (or 99.80 if you buy 20x800) so 20p more expensive.

So right now it is cheaper (obviously only a small amount) to always buy in 800 and never to buy a bigger sum at once.

Not only this, but we also lose 800 plat (4 packs) per 100 spent over our friends paying in Dollars and everyone loses compared to paying in Euros. Check my post with the working out.
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=34961

Gwaer
04-26-2014, 03:57 PM
And once again, it's impossible to perfectly balance multiple currencies. They are all gaining and losing strength relative to one another all the time. Losing 4 packs in 50 is way better than every other game that doesn't even try and forces you to pay 1usd = 1euro prices

It may not be perfect. But it's plenty good enough for now. If they can do it better later they will.

Marsden
04-27-2014, 04:58 AM
And once again, it's impossible to perfectly balance multiple currencies.

The fair way to balance currencies is to allow everyone to buy in whatever currency they want, regardless of location.
Default to the home currency, sure - but let people switch to Euros or Dollars if they have a way to pay in that currency.

primer
04-27-2014, 05:22 AM
The fair way to balance currencies is to allow everyone to buy in whatever currency they want, regardless of location.
Default to the home currency, sure - but let people switch to Euros or Dollars if they have a way to pay in that currency.

The fairest way would be to have the amount of plat change daily/weekly/monthly depending on your currencies strength to the dollar. As $1.00 = 100 plat it would be easy to do. This also stops any currency conversion charges by banks or Paypal.

Kami
04-27-2014, 07:37 AM
The fairest way would be to have the amount of plat change daily/weekly/monthly depending on your currencies strength to the dollar. As $1.00 = 100 plat it would be easy to do. This also stops any currency conversion charges by banks or Paypal.

I was thinking something similar but daily if it can be automated.

The problem with this is that if they do this, the platinum value would always favour whoever can pay in the 'home' currency.

For example, one day you're paying CAD$110 (for USD$100), another day you could be paying CAD$114 (for USD$100). And if currency rates go crazy... you're kinda SOL. Not to mention the more you spend, the bigger the gap.

primer
04-27-2014, 08:27 AM
I was thinking something similar but daily if it can be automated.

The problem with this is that if they do this, the platinum value would always favour whoever can pay in the 'home' currency.

For example, one day you're paying CAD$110 (for USD$100), another day you could be paying CAD$114 (for USD$100). And if currency rates go crazy... you're kinda SOL. Not to mention the more you spend, the bigger the gap.

Right now the Euro is the best currency to pay with, it beats the USD for value, so it doesn't always favour the home currency. The USD is already the home currency as they track each other 100=1.00.

The problem you're having people paying different prices for the same unit of currency (plat), which is wrong. Plat is just like stock that tracks the USD...If I want to buy stock on the US stock market I turn my 59.52 into $100 (today's exchange rate) and we all buy $100 worth of stock for $100. With hex its like i'm turning my 59.52 into $98 and I get less stock than you for no reason.

99.99 = 16'000 plat
€99.99 = 14'000 plat
99.99 = around €121
€120 = 16'800 plat
99.99 = $168 = 16'800 plat

So right now English players lose 800 plat/4 packs/a draft over others per 100 spent. So it needs adjusting or I need to be able to pay in euros. I assume this is to do with Gameforge being european and obviously CZE cant screw over the US.

Heres what gets me. In this post http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=34737 a guy talks about fairness and Cory replies about fairness:


I am pathologically "fair" I want HEX to always feel fair...

Yet from the math above it's clearly not fair. You have 2 currencies getting 16'800 plat for the same amount as another currency getting 16'000. I don't care if they don't give a crap about the UK but at least say it.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 09:20 AM
Holy fucking Christ. It's an 8% discrepancy. If they were running this game with standard operating procedures you'd be paying for plat at 1 per euro, and have more like a 60% price discrepancy. You really need to get over this huge unfair problem that is basically a rounding error. Moreover, the international rules and standards for accepting payments is apparently a very big problem, you have to set it up like this according to international rules. I'm not a lawyer, and I can't refute that statement, and obviously neither are you, but I'm getting real sick of you beating this 4 packs in 50 drum. Because it is very stupid. The jump from a normal game to this one is night and day. Deal with it.

primer
04-27-2014, 09:21 AM
Holy fucking Christ. It's an 8% discrepancy. If they were running this game with standard operating procedures you'd be paying for plat at 1 per euro, and have more like a 60% price discrepancy. You really need to get over this huge unfair problem that is basically a rounding error. Moreover, the international rules and standards for accepting payments is apparently a very big problem, you have to set it up like this according to international rules. I'm not a lawyer, and I can't refute that statement, and obviously neither are you, but I'm getting real sick of you beating this 4 packs in 50 drum. Because it is very stupid. The jump from a normal game to this one is night and day. Deal with it.

Someone doesn't pay in clearly.

hex_colin
04-27-2014, 09:28 AM
Right now the Euro is the best currency to pay with, it beats the USD for value, so it doesn't always favour the home currency. The USD is already the home currency as they track each other 100=1.00.

The problem you're having people paying different prices for the same unit of currency (plat), which is wrong. Plat is just like stock that tracks the USD...If I want to buy stock on the US stock market I turn my 59.52 into $100 (today's exchange rate) and we all buy $100 worth of stock for $100. With hex its like i'm turning my 59.52 into $98 and I get less stock than you for no reason.

99.99 = 16'000 plat
€99.99 = 14'000 plat
99.99 = around €121
€120 = 16'800 plat
99.99 = $168 = 16'800 plat

So right now English players lose 800 plat/4 packs/a draft over others per 100 spent. So it needs adjusting or I need to be able to pay in euros. I assume this is to do with Gameforge being european and obviously CZE cant screw over the US.

Heres what gets me. In this post http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=34737 a guy talks about fairness and Cory replies about fairness:



Yet from the math above it's clearly not fair. You have 2 currencies getting 16'800 plat for the same amount as another currency getting 16'000. I don't care if they don't give a crap about the UK but at least say it.

Or maybe they just set the amounts a couple of months ago and the exchange rates have changed since? That would easily explain it without resorting to CZE doesn't "give a crap about the UK".

Now, a more reasonable position would be to encourage CZE/Gameforge to update the quantities more frequently based on prevailing exchange rates.

Besides, some of us can't even buy Platinum, at any price in any currency... :P I'd happily pay in UKP.

Khazrakh
04-27-2014, 09:32 AM
Besides, some of us can't even buy Platinum, at any price in any currency... :P I'd happily pay in UKP.

So still nothing from Gameforge Colin?
Maybe I should go and pay them a visit, the office is about 3 km from where I life... I highly doubt anybody's around at the moment though ;)

hex_colin
04-27-2014, 09:36 AM
So still nothing from Gameforge Colin?
Maybe I should go and pay them a visit, the office is about 3 km from where I life... I highly doubt anybody's around at the moment though ;)

Nope.

I have my own Plan C though... Find Chris Woods' or DataDragon on Wednesday night, drop a stack of $100 bills on the desk and get them to run "UPDATE users SET platinum = platinum + (number of $100 bills * 100) WHERE KeepName = 'Colin'". Problem solved... ;)

primer
04-27-2014, 09:37 AM
Or maybe they just set the amounts a couple of months ago and the exchange rates have changed since? That would easily explain it without resorting to CZE doesn't "give a crap about the UK".

Now, a more reasonable position would be to encourage CZE/Gameforge to update the quantities more frequently based on prevailing exchange rates.

Besides, some of us can't even buy Platinum, at any price in any currency... :P I'd happily pay in UKP.

Possible that the rates were set Nov last year I suppose. I never said they don't give a crap about the UK... what I suggested was if they're about fairness but there is an unfair situation, just come out and say 'Yep, UK pays more it sucks sorry'

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 09:56 AM
It's what 8 cents more on the dollar? You probably shouldn't be playing a tcg, I'm sorry but if things are that tight for you a cheaper hobby might be in order.

Due to international rules balancing absolute value in multiple currencies is quite difficult, sometimes you'll pay slightly more sometimes you'll pay slightly less. That's just the way international transactions go.

primer
04-27-2014, 10:01 AM
It's what 8 cents more on the dollar? You probably shouldn't be playing a tcg, I'm sorry but if things are that tight for you a cheaper hobby might be in order.

Due to international rules balancing absolute value in multiple currencies is quite difficult, sometimes you'll pay slightly more sometimes you'll pay slightly less. That's just the way international transactions go.

They balanced Euros perfectly, I suspect Gameforge is the reason, an 8% cut soon adds up. Money is not the issue, I'll likely spend 1000's a year on Hex, it's the principle of the matter. I'll be paying in Euros whether by proxy or 3rd party while there's such a difference.. but there will be unsuspecting people paying over the odds which i'm not a fan of.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 10:03 AM
Euros aren't perfectly balanced, they're better than the base currency so far. As I said you win some you lose some. Currently all three currencies give a tiny amount of variation, one has to be better one has to be worse and one has to be in the middle.

primer
04-27-2014, 10:05 AM
Euros aren't perfectly balanced, they're better than the base currency so far. As I said you win some you lose some. Currently all three currencies give a tiny amount of variation, one has to be better one has to be worse and one has to be in the middle.

No they don't have to vary. They can all be balanced and 8% is not a 'tiny' variation.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 10:08 AM
8% is an extremely tiny variation when you consider what the situation would be like if this were any other game. You'd be paying the full difference between your currency and usd, which is likely more than. 8% but I admit I haven't checked today.

and according to Cory they do have to vary because of the international rules surrounding this kind of payment processing makes it impossible to implement it in a more sane way.

primer
04-27-2014, 10:09 AM
Not every other game used $1=€1 so don't use that as some sort of excuse.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 10:12 AM
Virtually every other American game uses 1$ = 1(stronger currency) hell even normal video game pricing uses that. Last I checked subscription fees to most MMO's still did as well. I can only think of a couple that break that mold and they're not as big as hex even is now.

primer
04-27-2014, 10:14 AM
Virtually every other American game uses 1$ = 1(stronger currency) hell even normal video game pricing uses that. Last I checked subscription fees to most MMO's still did as well. I can only think of a couple that break that mold and they're not as big as hex even is now.

So take the biggest game of them all WoW. $14.99... we dont pay €14.99.. we pay €12.99/8.99.

Edit: Elder scrolls online $15/€13/9... shall i find more?

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 10:17 AM
Yes lets take wow, they altered their subscription services for an international audience befitting their status as the most popular mmo.

http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=195413/europeans-shafted-due-to-exchange-rates

yet people still complained because often in a straight up currency conversion they were still paying slightly more, why didn't they perfectly balance their payments so they were exact if it's so easy?

primer
04-27-2014, 10:19 AM
Because you're buying a subscription in WoW. In hex you're buying a different currency which is easily manipulated to match real currency values.

I only brought up wow cos you said ''Virtually every other American game uses 1$ = 1(stronger currency)''

Gulbech
04-27-2014, 10:21 AM
So take the biggest game of them all WoW. $14.99... we dont pay €14.99.. we pay €12.99/8.99.

Ohh no, so WOW is doing the same. Cheaters!

If it is 14.99$ it should only be €10.84, so they charge you almost 20% more. I will give you is more fair.
But you will always see this problem when you convert money in games.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 10:21 AM
Why is a subscription any different, shouldn't you just be paying the equivalent month to month that a us subscription costs. Why isn't that just automagically converted.

One example of a game doing otherwise does not change my previous statement or refute it. But that happened to be a great example of the pitfalls of your thinking in general.

Kami
04-27-2014, 10:24 AM
Yes lets take wow, they altered their subscription services for an international audience befitting their status as the most popular mmo.

That's actually part of the reason why Blizzard started accepting tons and tons of different currencies.

But difference here is that Blizzard is an international company. They have resources that CZE just doesn't have at this point in time.

primer
04-27-2014, 10:30 AM
You're statement said every other american game uses $1=x1. Which it doesn't. That's what the WoW comment disproved.

I understand when companies use 1=€1 I don't even care that much when they do. But when Hex use the correct currency conversion for $/€ and then the incorrect currency conversion for $/ i just wonder why.

$/€ is out by €0.43($0.59) per $168
$/ is out by 4.76($8) per $168

It just doesn't make sense unless Gameforge is skimming off the UK customers. If you had that much of a difference with $/ then you should have a comparable difference with $/€ using your logic.

Oh and a sub is different because it doesn't have a inherent value. A currency like plat has a value attached to it.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 10:45 AM
I said virtually every other. By far and away the majority. There are exceptions of course. But even those exceptions don't fit with your expectations.

Once again they don't use the correct currency conversion to euros. Euros get too much value as you've pointed out yourself many times. There are three different currencies. The necessity of international trade demands that there be price discrepancies between them. You're upset your currency isn't on top, fine. Be upset. But it's a tiny margin that it isn't and it just looks petty

a subscription has an inherent value of whatever the base currency is. It's how much the game is worth for a month of access that doesn't change from country to country. You're definitely losing ground on this if that's the best you have.

primer
04-27-2014, 10:49 AM
I said virtually every other. By far and away the majority. There are exceptions of course. But even those exceptions don't fit with your expectations.

Once again they don't use the correct currency conversion to euros. Euros get too much value as you've pointed out yourself many times. There are three different currencies. The necessity of international trade demands that there be price discrepancies between them. You're upset your currency isn't on top, fine. Be upset. But it's a tiny margin that it isn't and it just looks petty

I’m starting to think you’d argue with me if I said the sky was blue so I’ll leave it on this.

Yes US>rest of the world currencies often are out of whack in games and that’s fine, they have to buy extra servers, extra customer support etc. But with the USD/Euro being so closely linked in this game (0.35%) it’s strange that the USD/GBP conversions are so far apart (4.76%).

I suspect CZE stopped Gameforge from scalping the European customers like they do, but they managed to keep a margin on the GBP.

Even you cant deny that a 0.35% margin and a 4.76% margin isn't ridiculously different, you'd never see that in any other US game.

I'll be getting a Euro friend to do my plat purchases, I just hope other Brits manage to do the same.

Glognar
04-27-2014, 12:58 PM
So I haven't checked these forums since the first week of Alpha, I see Gwaer hasn't changed one bit.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 02:46 PM
You know what I always say. 'It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds'.

Quasari
04-27-2014, 03:30 PM
I am not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted, or if it is all regions or just the UK so sorry if this is in the wrong place.

800 Plat = 4.99
1600 Plat = 9.99 (or 9.98 if you buy 2x800) so 2p more expensive
4000 Plat = 24.99 (or 24.95 if you buy 5x800) so 5p more expensive.
8000 Plat = 49.99 (or 49.90 if you buy 10x800) so 10p more expensive.
16000 Plat = 99.99 (or 99.80 if you buy 20x800) so 20p more expensive.

So right now it is cheaper (obviously only a small amount) to always buy in 800 and never to buy a bigger sum at once.

This is true of all three currencies. It hits the hardest though.


Not only this, but we also lose 800 plat (4 packs) per 100 spent over our friends paying in Dollars and everyone loses compared to paying in Euros. Check my post with the working out.
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=34961

Yes, the has been on a rise and I seem to have figured out why it's the value it is. The deal with Gameforge went down in october. The value of the back then was around $1.58. Which, with the converted costs would be just about where the plat is. The € was at ~$1.35 which means it hasn't moved as much as the has. I figured when the deal went down they decided on these values not thinking the would jump too much before the shop opened.

I don't think it's Gameforge skimming. I think it's part of the deal that was finalized in October with values from October. Perhaps they'll update the prices sometime soon to reflect it, but at least I don't think any malice was had there as you imply in this thread.



You know what I always say. 'It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds'.

- Captain Hammer, "Corporate Tool"

ossuary
04-27-2014, 04:19 PM
You know what I always say. 'It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds'.

Everyone's a hero in their own way.

primer
04-27-2014, 07:29 PM
Yes, the has been on a rise and I seem to have figured out why it's the value it is. The deal with Gameforge went down in october. The value of the back then was around $1.58. Which, with the converted costs would be just about where the plat is. The € was at ~$1.35 which means it hasn't moved as much as the has. I figured when the deal went down they decided on these values not thinking the would jump too much before the shop opened.

Finally a sensible constructive answer, thanks. Perhaps they will pick it up then, but they have already been charging people 6 month old rates so that opens up a whole new can of worms. Maybe just leave it and give us the option to pay in Euros would be best, even with bank/Paypal exchange charges paying in Euros is better value.

If there are any entrepreneurs out there, you could make quite a bit of money off selling plat to the UK by undercutting Gameforge. More money than any savings account is giving you atm.

hex_colin
04-27-2014, 07:40 PM
Finally a sensible constructive answer, thanks. Perhaps they will pick it up then, but they have already been charging people 6 month old rates so that opens up a whole new can of worms. Maybe just leave it and give us the option to pay in Euros would be best, even with bank/Paypal exchange charges paying in Euros is better value.

You got that answer 2 pages ago... Now I know you're just trolling.


Or maybe they just set the amounts a couple of months ago and the exchange rates have changed since? That would easily explain it without resorting to CZE doesn't "give a crap about the UK".

Now, a more reasonable position would be to encourage CZE/Gameforge to update the quantities more frequently based on prevailing exchange rates.

Besides, some of us can't even buy Platinum, at any price in any currency... :P I'd happily pay in UKP.

primer
04-27-2014, 07:50 PM
You got that answer 2 pages ago... Now I know you're just trolling.

Yes and I agreed with you. What you didn't do is elaborate on the sentence so how the hell am I trolling? I'm trying to get an answer on an issue.

Malicus
04-27-2014, 08:15 PM
I just find it interesting that with many newer international games I get charged in Euros over US$ now which is kind of annoying because it means I need to track an extra currency.

That said given CZEs track record on fairness I didn't even feel a need to verify the Euro conversion before I purchased my platinum I figured it was going to be pretty close.

You also need to factor in that they clearly want to keep the purchase blocks clean so while there will likely be recalculations going forward I wouldn't expect it to get any more granular than say 50 platinum and maybe 100 is the level of adjustment they feel makes the most sense (given that outside of AH in the future 50 platinum doesn't do anything)

Showsni
04-28-2014, 03:45 AM
Should they be tracking inflation too? If a dollar today is worth $1.05 in a year's time should I be receiving less platinum for my dollar next year?

primer
04-28-2014, 05:01 AM
Should they be tracking inflation too? If a dollar today is worth $1.05 in a year's time should I be receiving less platinum for my dollar next year?

No because the plat tracks the dollar. $1.00 will always equal 100 plat. So your dollar can go up or down it doesn't matter.

However if the Euro tanked tomorrow and became worthless, like in 1920's Germany with the Mark, people would be taking home millions of Euros a week instead of Hundreds and they would still pay €100 per 14'000 plat. It's not often hyperinflation is a good thing, but it certainly has an upside here.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 05:10 AM
No because the plat tracks the dollar. $1.00 will always equal 100 plat. So your dollar can go up or down it doesn't matter.

However if the Euro tanked tomorrow and became worthless, like in 1920's Germany with the Mark, people would be taking home millions of Euros a week instead of Hundreds and they would still pay 100 per 14'000 plat. It's not often hyperinflation is a good thing, but it certainly has an upside here.

CZE/Gameforge would instantly disable Euro transactions if that happened though. They would hemorrhage money if they allowed players to buy plat like that, and every collection/card would have almost zero worth in the space of days.

ossuary
04-28-2014, 05:11 AM
All the more reason to update the exchange regularly, instead of once every 6 months. :)

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 05:13 AM
All the more reason to update the exchange regularly, instead of once every 6 months. :)

Absolutely. But in an emergency, they just pull it down, and work things out on a daily basis until the currency settles. Or disable purchases altogether (which would be the easy move, but it would suck for us EU players!)

primer
04-28-2014, 05:13 AM
CZE/Gameforge would instantly disable Euro transactions if that happened though. They would hemorrhage money if they allowed players to buy plat like that, and every collection/card would have almost zero worth in the space of days.

Oh I totally agree it wouldn't ever happen, was a bit tongue in cheek. Hyperinflation would never happen in the eurozone anyway tbh.

ossuary
04-28-2014, 05:19 AM
Well yeah, isn't that the whole POINT of the Euro? To not be tied to the economy of a single nation? The entire continent would have to basically flush down the shitter all at once for the Euro to go into hyperinflation. And if that happens, the price of boosters in Hex will be the least of your worries, because you'll be having a REAL Zombie Plague on your hands. :)

primer
04-28-2014, 05:26 AM
Yeah, the thing is they tied a whole continent to one currency. Which isn't that great when you have the industrial might of Germany, really strong imports and exports, and then Greece.. who have tourism and olives :p

ossuary
04-28-2014, 06:32 AM
Look, we have to start somewhere. We can't have transporters and warp drives until we have one currency and then universal translators and then a united federation. :p

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 06:43 AM
I am not completely satisfied with the Euro, but it is a lot more pleasant to work with than other currencies I have had to use. So I can say I would prefer a single global currency, when it is viable.

That could take centuries, but the framework is there.