PDA

View Full Version : Deadline to use free weekly draft



Rapkannibale
04-26-2014, 01:45 PM
Hi I can't access my PC for a few days and was wondering by when exactly we have to use our free weekly draft each week. Is it one week from when we redeemed the code or is it a calendar week (so by Sunday)? Thanks

hex_colin
04-26-2014, 01:51 PM
Hi I can't access my PC for a few days and was wondering by when exactly we have to use our free weekly draft each week. Is it one week from when we redeemed the code or is it a calendar week (so by Sunday)? Thanks

One week from when you redeemed it. It tells you on the ticket in your inventory.

Rapkannibale
04-26-2014, 02:02 PM
Thanks!

syphonhail
04-26-2014, 04:01 PM
One week from when you redeemed it. It tells you on the ticket in your inventory.


So, I just have a pile of 7 tickets with no expiration date (one king, one pp), am I missing something or do the pp tickets not have an expiration date?

hex_colin
04-26-2014, 04:21 PM
So, I just have a pile of 7 tickets with no expiration date (one king, one pp), am I missing something or do the pp tickets not have an expiration date?

You should have 6 with no expiration date - 3 from each tier. And then 1 that expires in about 5 days (from your PP free draft a week for life).

Ali3nSan
04-26-2014, 05:43 PM
I hope they reset the PP clock. I can't play this week, exam on Friday :/

But can play on weekend :D

GatticusFinch
04-26-2014, 11:28 PM
I really wish they would extend or remove that weekly time limit. I don't remember them ever saying it would expire previously, and it will force me (and others, no doubt) to rare draft more often than I'd like which impacts the game for others. I'm certainly not just going to let one expire even if I can't find the time to play the draft.

I don't see what purpose the expiration serves.

Daer
04-26-2014, 11:35 PM
1 Free Draft per Week for a Year/Life

It is right there in the name.

Gwaer
04-26-2014, 11:45 PM
The expiration stops someone from stockpiling drafts, which is effectively stockpiling free packs, say you never used any of your free drafts, then when set 2 is out, you draft to get 30 drafts worth of set two cards for free. The free drafts are going to be a drain on the economy pushing pack and card prices down, and basically devaluing sets, It needs a lot of caveats to have a minimal impact as possible.

Kroan
04-27-2014, 12:45 AM
I really wish they would extend or remove that weekly time limit. I don't remember them ever saying it would expire previously, and it will force me (and others, no doubt) to rare draft more often than I'd like which impacts the game for others. I'm certainly not just going to let one expire even if I can't find the time to play the draft.

I don't see what purpose the expiration serves. They said it multiple times. You must have missed it.

Gridian
04-27-2014, 03:24 AM
They said it multiple times. You must have missed it.

And also, those free weekly tickets get renewed after expiring. So, if you don't use it a new one pops up immediately after it expires. If you use it you'll get a new one after the used one would have expired. :-)

WabukiSensei
04-27-2014, 05:36 AM
So um, if the tournaments are offline for 7 days, does that mean I just lost a free ticket? Sorry, new to the forums

Xenavire
04-27-2014, 05:44 AM
So um, if the tournaments are offline for 7 days, does that mean I just lost a free ticket? Sorry, new to the forums

CZE has said they will replace them. But only if the tournaments are unplayable - if you are unable to log in for a week due to your own commitments, they wont be 'refunding tickets'. Right now everyone should be eligible for ticket refunds though. If the next week has working tournaments, the refunds will likely not be repeated.

Hope that makes sense.

Gridian
04-27-2014, 08:12 AM
CZE has said they will replace them. But only if the tournaments are unplayable - if you are unable to log in for a week due to your own commitments, they wont be 'refunding tickets'. Right now everyone should be eligible for ticket refunds though. If the next week has working tournaments, the refunds will likely not be repeated.

Hope that makes sense.

It does. ;-D

GatticusFinch
04-27-2014, 02:06 PM
1 Free Draft per Week for a Year/Life

It is right there in the name.

No it isn't. There is nothing in that sentence that says your free draft per week will expire at the end of the week and they do not stack. If I get two tickets that stack over two weeks, I've still only gotten one free draft per week, I have merely time shifted when I used them.

There would be literally zero consequences to letting them have some small stack size. Hell, you can re strict them to the set that is out at the time even.

Marsden
04-27-2014, 02:27 PM
No it isn't. There is nothing in that sentence that says your free draft per week will expire at the end of the week and they do not stack.

The original KS text was "One free draft tournament each week FOR LIFE of the game!"

Clearly it means that each week, the first time you draft is free.

GatticusFinch
04-27-2014, 04:58 PM
And if it said "one free booster per day for life" you would assume that if you didn't log on to claim it one day, you didn't get one that day? It doesn't clearly mean what you say it means. I'm a lawyer, I draft legal documents, and that sentence is about as unclear as possible. They could give you 4/5 tickets at the beginning of each month, and still make logical sense. Or 52 a year, or one you have to enter at a specific time each week. It could mean you get a ticket each week, stacking forever indefinitely.

There are literally no negative consequences from allowing them to stack some small amount. If they expire every week, I will certainly have times I must treat them as three booster packs, which is going to piss other people off and give me less value than what I paid for.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 05:03 PM
The great thing about ambiguous language in legal documents is that it means that you can fulfill the requirements in many different ways. It was made clear repeatedly during the KS that this is what it meant. Once per week, and only one per week you could draft for free. Bam. That is how it's done.

there are absolutely negative consequences for allowing free drafts to stack. I've laid some of them out in several different threads. Including this one.

b1uepenguin
04-27-2014, 05:19 PM
I understood it to mean that it was one free draft a week; not free coupon that you can use w/o expiration.

I backed with that understanding, knowing full well some weeks I would just end up drafting the cards I wanted rather than actually playing through a draft (treating as a booster as you say) because in all honestly I don't always have a large swath of dedicated time to sit and play- though I will certainly always try to make that the case, RL catches up with you sometimes.

EntropyBall
04-27-2014, 07:18 PM
There are literally no negative consequences from allowing them to stack some small amount. If they expire every week, I will certainly have times I must treat them as three booster packs, which is going to piss other people off and give me less value than what I paid for.

Indefinite stacking quite literally has negative consequences for CZE, as others have pointed out. It also is worse for everyone who doesn't have a free draft for life, since it ensures that a set of 3 packs is generated every week for free, which lowers the value of everyone's packs.

More importantly, this is known information. It was clarified during the KS. The fact that you didn't know exactly how it was going to work doesn't mean you are getting less value now. The value from the PP tiers is already far higher than any other tier. Sorry if you didn't know how it was going to work, but I'm sure there are MANY people who would be glad to take your PP tier off your hands for $250.

Deathfog
04-27-2014, 08:05 PM
Doing one draft in a week isn't exactly breaking most people for time commitment. At worst it should take 1.5 hours with quite a bit of down time on average. I'd imagine most matches will be done in ten minutes with the slowest of each round holding up the show for everyone. Elimination drafts should be on average even quicker.

joseph5185
04-27-2014, 09:16 PM
Doing one draft in a week isn't exactly breaking most people for time commitment. At worst it should take 1.5 hours with quite a bit of down time on average. I'd imagine most matches will be done in ten minutes with the slowest of each round holding up the show for everyone. Elimination drafts should be on average even quicker.

Or just rare draft and leave. That would take considerably less time, but best to try and win if possible for extra packs, gold, etc.

GatticusFinch
04-27-2014, 10:21 PM
Indefinite stacking quite literally has negative consequences for CZE, as others have pointed out. It also is worse for everyone who doesn't have a free draft for life, since it ensures that a set of 3 packs is generated every week for free, which lowers the value of everyone's packs.

More importantly, this is known information. It was clarified during the KS. The fact that you didn't know exactly how it was going to work doesn't mean you are getting less value now. The value from the PP tiers is already far higher than any other tier. Sorry if you didn't know how it was going to work, but I'm sure there are MANY people who would be glad to take your PP tier off your hands for $250.

You didn't read what you quoted. I didn't say indefinite stacking. I said stack some small amount. Zero consequences to anyone if you can stack two of them.

Selling my PP tier is forbidden now. Lots of things were said in the kickstarter, how many months ago was that? I seem to remember full launch being in October of 2013, so it's not as if these things are set in stone.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 10:27 PM
If stacking indefinitely has an effect, how does stacking two not? Do the effects start only when you stack 3 tickets? 4?

Every bit of leniency added to the usage of tickets has an effect on the economy. It drives pack prices down. Do a free draft and win one pack, sell that pack for a dollar and you've just made a buck off of it, and lowered the average price of packs if they were greater than a dollar. Each ticket that expires is a good thing economically speaking. They're high enough value even if you miss out on half of them. They should work how they were advertised during the KS.

GatticusFinch
04-27-2014, 10:35 PM
If stacking indefinitely has an effect, how does stacking two not? Do the effects start only when you stack 3 tickets? 4?

Every bit of leniency added to the usage of tickets has an effect on the economy. It drives pack prices down. Do a free draft and win one pack, sell that pack for a dollar and you've just made a buck off of it, and lowered the average price of packs if they were greater than a dollar. Each ticket that expires is a good thing economically speaking. They're high enough value even if you miss out on half of them. They should work how they were advertised during the KS.

You're assuming people will just let them expire. No one will. They will rare draft and drop if they have to, ruining the experience for others, which is worse than letting them stack. That has zero effect on the economy, but a huge impact on the player experience.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 10:37 PM
Rare drafting doesn't actually ruin experiences. It's really not that bad.

Damascus
04-27-2014, 11:38 PM
You're assuming people will just let them expire. No one will. They will rare draft and drop if they have to, ruining the experience for others, which is worse than letting them stack. That has zero effect on the economy, but a huge impact on the player experience.

I have to agree with Gwaer ... you're trying to tell me not a single person, out of all the backers with free drafts, will ever accidentally forget or miss one of them? That's a pretty big assumption.

Even if the percentage is small, some people will neglect to claim their drafts each week, and when the reward tier lasts for months (and life in the Pro-Player Tier case), that can totally add up over time to a fairly non-negligible amount of money to Cryptozoic.

I personally don't begrudge CZE making people get off their asses to log in once a week to claim a portion of their free lifetime supply of packs.

Arkaon
04-27-2014, 11:45 PM
You're assuming people will just let them expire. No one will. They will rare draft and drop if they have to, ruining the experience for others, which is worse than letting them stack. That has zero effect on the economy, but a huge impact on the player experience.

To put even more emphasis on what Gwaer had said, rare drafting will actually help. When you draft, you always have to decide whether or not you are attempting to win, and if you draft for profit and not a win, you will lose most of the time, which means you don't have packs from a win being generated for you.

This in turn causes you, the rare drafter to purchase more packs. Which causes the cost of packs to rise. Etc etc.

[SNIP]

Mike411
04-28-2014, 01:04 AM
As someone with a weekly draft ticket, I agree that they should expire every week. They're already being super generous, that's why the pro player tier sold out first, and early. Making weekly drafts not expire would impact them financially, and if you want Hex to succeed, you want the company to be well off.

UDareUTake
04-28-2014, 01:15 AM
The weekly life time draft itself has insane value, and the most I can see is CZE extending the expiry date to about 10 days? (which is very very generous), even at the default 7 days expiry, I have no issue with it, and worst case scenario, I'll just do a quick rare draft to not waste the ticket, but even if I do miss it somehow, there is always next week :) so personally I wont be overly concerned that a company that has given me a lifetime of free drafts will cut corners in an attempt to short-change me in anyway.

*If they were a greedy company, they wont even introduce Pro Tier with Life time free weekly drafts

So on our end of the stick, we should not be over-demanding/greedy as well. At the end of the day, if CZE dont make enough money, we all lose

GatticusFinch
04-28-2014, 07:28 AM
To put even more emphasis on what Gwaer had said, rare drafting will actually help. When you draft, you always have to decide whether or not you are attempting to win, and if you draft for profit and not a win, you will lose most of the time, which means you don't have packs from a win being generated for you.

This in turn causes you, the rare drafter to purchase more packs. Which causes the cost of packs to rise. Etc etc.

[SNIP]


[SNIP]

The goal when writing any sort of language like this is to be as clear as possible. They put that language out as a commercial advertisement to get people to give them $250 for it. This has nothing to do with being generous or them being greedy, it was something that people paid money for and expected it to operate a certain way.

UDareUTake
04-28-2014, 07:32 AM
I paid with clear-cut understanding during the early kickstarter phase that the free weekly drafts are to be used weekly and will expire after that. I believe in no manner did CZE misrepresented themselves or attempted to confuse or misled people with their tier description. And clarification was constantly being made etc. So the facts speak for themselves

Kami
04-28-2014, 07:51 AM
If you're going to argue, please keep it to the argument itself. There is ZERO reason to target another user.

EntropyBall
04-28-2014, 09:07 AM
You didn't read what you quoted. I didn't say indefinite stacking. I said stack some small amount. Zero consequences to anyone if you can stack two of them.
Selling my PP tier is forbidden now. Lots of things were said in the kickstarter, how many months ago was that? I seem to remember full launch being in October of 2013, so it's not as if these things are set in stone.
My apologies, I'm not sure why I said "indefinite", but the same logic still applies to stacking two of them. Stacking absolutely WILL lead to more free packs being created/redeemed.
And yeah, lots of things from the KS haven't met their target, and you are always welcome to suggest how things could be changed, but you have to at least acknowledge that its a change, rather than claiming you were sold false goods...


The goal when writing any sort of language like this is to be as clear as possible. They put that language out as a commercial advertisement to get people to give them $250 for it. This has nothing to do with being generous or them being greedy, it was something that people paid money for and expected it to operate a certain way.
If you expected it to operate this way, it was only because that's how you interpreted the PP tier bullet points. The way it works was clarified during the KS.

Vorpal
04-28-2014, 09:16 AM
I'm just curious...

We all know that VIP gives you one booster a week.
Also the pro player gives you one free draft a week.

Why should they be treated any differently?

You might as well ask that VIP give you all 4 boosters in the first week of the month.

GatticusFinch
04-28-2014, 09:28 AM
I'm just curious...

We all know that VIP gives you one booster a week.
Also the pro player gives you one free draft a week.

Why should they be treated any differently?

You might as well ask that VIP give you all 4 boosters in the first week of the month.

Ok, they should not be treated differently--the free booster should actually be a ticket for a free booster, and if you don't log on to claim it, you lose your booster entirely. Also, if you do log on, you need to sit there and you will get one card downloaded from the booster every 10 minutes until you get them all. You can quit at any point early and get part of it, but you won't get full value.

Or, if you want them treated the same, they can give us 3 boosters and a draft ticket every week automatically, just as you assume the pack will be delivered automatically.

primer
04-28-2014, 10:16 AM
I know when you activate the weekly draft your ticket lasts 7 days but with following tickets does your week start from a week after first activation? or will CZE have a 'new week' time like 00:01am Monday mornings.

Vorpal
04-28-2014, 10:49 AM
I know when you activate the weekly draft your ticket lasts 7 days but with following tickets does your week start from a week after first activation? or will CZE have a 'new week' time like 00:01am Monday mornings.

I'd also like to know this for VIP and stuff.

We need more clarity on how exactly these weeks are determined.

Marsden
04-28-2014, 10:57 AM
I'd also like to know this for VIP and stuff.

We need more clarity on how exactly these weeks are determined.

And later on how days are determined.
When we have Lotus Gardens or any other kind of daily thing will they be needing a login once between 00:00-23:59 Pacific time or something else?

Turtlewing
04-28-2014, 11:50 AM
It seems like the obvious definition of "week" is "7 days". So if you redeemed your code on Thursday you get your ticket every Thursday (every 7 days). If you subbed for VIP on a Tuesday you get your pack every Tuesday.

For Lotus Garden, it's a little more complex, but they will probably have a 24 hour cooldown, then when you log in it checks of you garden(s) are on cool down if not they generate a lotus. Then when the cooldown ends it checks if you're logged in if you are it generates a lotus.

Marsden
04-28-2014, 12:02 PM
For Lotus Garden, it's a little more complex, but they will probably have a 24 hour cooldown, then when you log in it checks of you garden(s) are on cool down if not they generate a lotus. Then when the cooldown ends it checks if you're logged in if you are it generates a lotus.

A cooldown is terrible in that it penalises someone if e.g. Day 1 they can only play 22:00-00:00 and Day 2 they can only play 10:00-12:00. If it was a 24hr cooldown then once it's set at one time, it means you have to login after that time to get it. Even an 18hr cooldown which I've seen elsewhere is inconvenient and can leave you missing something even if you're around the next day.

Gwaer
04-28-2014, 12:15 PM
I agree. I'd much prefer a reset time, cool downs feel so dirty to me on objects like that. =\

Turtlewing
04-28-2014, 12:28 PM
A cooldown is terrible in that it penalises someone if e.g. Day 1 they can only play 22:00-00:00 and Day 2 they can only play 10:00-12:00. If it was a 24hr cooldown then once it's set at one time, it means you have to login after that time to get it. Even an 18hr cooldown which I've seen elsewhere is inconvenient and can leave you missing something even if you're around the next day.


Well, instead of a cooldown they could flag every garden as "active" at midnight, and then if you log in while the garden is active you get a lotus and the garden becomes "inactive".

But that has the opposite problem of making people who are active around the refresh time able to log in twice in one sitting on either side of the divide and get two day's worth of lotuses. It also drags time-zones into the discussion. I'm also not sure it actually solves your issue for all cases. Particularly if the refresh is simultaneous across all timezones.

You're right about the 24 hour choice being poor. 23 hours would be better.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 12:30 PM
But that has the opposite problem of making people who are active around the refresh time able to log in twice in one sitting on either side of the divide and get two day's worth of lotuses.

Why is this bad? I commonly do this in MMO's, and there is no excuse for penalising people who wish to do things this way.

Gwaer
04-28-2014, 12:31 PM
Just make it midnight pst or midnight gmt. It doesn't actually matter if people can get 2 uses out of it in one sitting. They're still getting the same number as everyone else that uses it every day.

Vorpal
04-28-2014, 12:31 PM
It seems like the obvious definition of "week" is "7 days". So if you redeemed your code on Thursday you get your ticket every Thursday (every 7 days). If you subbed for VIP on a Tuesday you get your pack every Tuesday.

For Lotus Garden, it's a little more complex, but they will probably have a 24 hour cooldown, then when you log in it checks of you garden(s) are on cool down if not they generate a lotus. Then when the cooldown ends it checks if you're logged in if you are it generates a lotus.

I'd much prefer a 'reset' at a certain time.

Who wants to have to remember when they redeemed their various codes or paid for VIP? Plus it seems like keeping track of all that could be more work than simply saying "It's Monday, you all got a VIP pack and a free draft token. Also, just like they are at every midnight, your lotus gardens got refreshed"

Marsden
04-28-2014, 12:51 PM
But that has the opposite problem of making people who are active around the refresh time able to log in twice in one sitting on either side of the divide and get two day's worth of lotuses.

I don't see that's a problem, tbh. They're not getting 3 lotus in 2 days via some secret special method. They're just getting 2.

TheBokononist
04-28-2014, 01:00 PM
I don't see that's a problem, tbh. They're not getting 3 lotus in 2 days via some secret special method. They're just getting 2.
Yeap.

Yoss
04-28-2014, 01:01 PM
Weekly/daily resets (well advertised) preferred for me as opposed to some sort of per-player timer.

Turtlewing
04-28-2014, 01:02 PM
Fair enough that double dipping doesn't bother anyone but if reset is Midnight GMT, and you live in GMT +8 timezone, the refresh happens at 8:am. If you play all day Sunday, and only log in for an hour at 6:00 am Monday (before work) you have exactly the same problem that happens with cooldowns where you logged in on 2 days but only get 1 lotus.

Gwaer
04-28-2014, 01:07 PM
Or you could login for a minute before bed. Or get up at 6am the next day before reset and login at the same time.

Turtlewing
04-28-2014, 01:20 PM
Or you could login for a minute before bed. Or get up at 6am the next day before reset and login at the same time.

I'm not sure what point you're making.

In either system there are cases where you log in once per 'day' but the system doesn't agree. You can get around them by logging in when the system thinks it's been a day.

In the interest of not having to deal with timezones and not discriminating based on location, cooldowns seem like the simpler and fairer choice to me.

Basicly a cooldowen in the same system as a fixed time reset only the reset point in under your control.

Marsden
04-28-2014, 01:25 PM
No, cooldowns are clearly an unfair option.

If it's set at <24h you can get a net of >1 thing a day by keeping track of the system.
If it's set at 24h you actually only get 1 thing a day if you log in exactly 24h afterwards, otherwise you will end up with a net of <1 thing a day as the timer keeps pushing forwards.

A consistent midnight PST reset is fairest, I reckon. Or whatever time server maintenance is set to run.
Everyone knows what time that is and then you can make it extra clear by a countdown on the ticket/card.

Yoss
04-28-2014, 01:28 PM
A cooldown will not allow for variability nearly as well. If the timer is exactly 24 hours for Lotus, you will always achieve a spawn rate of LESS than 1 per 24 hours. Why? If you hit the timer perfectly, down to the second, then you get your 1 Lotus for the 24 hours (this will be rather rare unless you're OCD). If you're late, then you get 1 Lotus for X hours where X is 24 plus however late you were; you just lost spawn rate. If you're early, you get nothing and must come back later (probably late, as previously discussed). In short, the cooldown will always be longer than advertised when put into practice.

Meanwhile, a standard reset will always be exactly as advertised. For most users, their schedule variability will be completely irrelevant. Only a small subset of users whose normal play times line up with a reset will need to worry about it, and will be able to work around it, with minor inconvenience.

Vorpal
04-28-2014, 01:32 PM
Fair enough that double dipping doesn't bother anyone but if reset is Midnight GMT, and you live in GMT +8 timezone, the refresh happens at 8:am. If you play all day Sunday, and only log in for an hour at 6:00 am Monday (before work) you have exactly the same problem that happens with cooldowns where you logged in on 2 days but only get 1 lotus.

Aren't we going to have 'walled gardens' by geographic location?

so the time zone shouldn't be an issue here. They can have each walled garden reset when most people are asleep.

At worst, as you say, you're in the same situation everyone is in when you use a cooldown system.

I much prefer a standard reset. I don't want to be trying to remember when my lotus cooldown is up, when my VIP cooldown is up, when the free draft cooldown is up, etc etc.

I have showed the game to my wife and she bought some KS tier or other and is also going to do VIP. I plan for us to log on, open our VIP packs and go adventuring together in the dungeons. It's going to be a needless pain if one of us started our VIP pack early/late and has to wait for the other one.

Much simpler to just say "Monday you get your VIP stuff".