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View Full Version : Compensation for bootsers & plat lost in bugged tournaments



Ogodei
04-27-2014, 01:39 AM
So I was stupid enough to play a draft tournament yesterday and as so many other tournaments it locked up while drafting, so poof goes my plat and boosters (I didn't even get the cards I had drafted up to that point). The HEX guy in the chat told me to submit a ticket, which I had to do through Gameforge, since I'm in Germany.

I then had to create a new account on the support site, since neither my forum account nor game login worked there. Either way, I submitted the ticket and din't hear anything back since then, not even a confirmation that they received my ticket, which now left me with a pretty bad feeling.

When I go to the Gameofrge support site and try to use the "track ticket" option it asks me to enter some codes I should have received by email, which I didn't (I received a confirmation for registering though, so my login data should be fine).

Now that the forums are finally back up I come here and don't even find anyone complaining about this whole mess (maybe I didn't have enough patience to look hard enough though, but I know there was a whole bunch of tournaments where this happened, its the reason why they are down now after all). I mean we're throwing real money at this buggy piece of %$& and everyone just seems to be shrugging their shoulders at it. I mean $7 isn't a fortune, but it's still money that I have high doubts everyone who lost it will get back in the near future, if at all. Am I the only one who thinks that is just not acceptable?

Okay, maybe it was my mistake to play in a tournament at all, but at that time I still had trust in CZE, which I now lost for obvious reasons. I just don't understand why they did monetized beta at this point, which was SO obvious to end in the chaos we have now (and we're probably lucky it's not much worse).

Was it greed, stupidity, despair, ignorance or a combination of it all? I don't know and can't wait to hear an official statement

MasterN64
04-27-2014, 02:06 AM
I feel you. I really do. This is however still a very early beta and these kinds of problems are to be expected. The same goes with problems in their support system. I hate to phrase it this way but we truly are all guinea pigs at this time testing imperfect hardware and software. There will be problems and there will be some teeth gnashing. We are trusting everyone at Cryptozoic to be fair and responsible and at the same time they are trusting us to be patient and understanding.

Give it a week or so to get some of the initial problems out of the system and if your tickets are not resolved contact the support guys again. In the meantime just double check you sent the report to http://support.hextcg.com/ and be patient. With the buggy drafts there are probably many tickets flooding the system which itself is in beta. They probably have hundreds of tickets in software that only kinda works.

For now though just calm down and trust in them just a little. Coding software isnt some kind of magic where you put words in a computer and perfect programs come out the other side. One small typo can ruin an entire program. Problems will happen. If your unhappy with the situation currently by all means voice that but please leave out the insults.

And as ive stated this is a beta. If you cant deal with some issues during gameplay or the like its probably best if you closed the client and waited a couple weeks for the major bugs to get squashed before starting to play seriously.

And as a side note personally i feel it would have been better to not hand out the rewards on the beta as they did. They handed them out on hardware that wasnt familiar and it lead to the draft crashes. It would have been much better to keep the alpha account setup for a couple weeks and ran it on the beta servers to test the servers and go from there. Still that didnt happen but thats just how it goes. If the guys at CZE are guilty of anything its in attempting to deliver what we paid for as soon as possible. They had good intentions. The only problem is they went a little sour.

Khazrakh
04-27-2014, 02:09 AM
You WILL get your boosters and platinum back and I wouldn't be surprised if they even added a little something on top if.

Really I don't feel like answering too much of what you said because you obviously just felt like you had to rand anyway, but here's a friendly advice: Don't play in a Closed Beta if you lose your mind every time anything breaks.

Kroan
04-27-2014, 02:12 AM
I had no problems at all with the support system, and I didn't hear anyone having problems with it. Try to look through your junk mail. If you can't find anything, try to contact CZE through twitter or through a PM to Shaqattaq on these forums, they've been very forthcoming in helping people. Just don't expect to get answer within 24h. They're pretty busy with beta just launching and all (shocker, I know!)

Also your tone might need some addressing. There is no need to get all worked up and aggressive. CZE has shown they'll do whatever they can to compensate for these kind of mistakes.

Llauron
04-27-2014, 02:39 AM
They told us multiple times yesterday in the chat to contact support for reimbursement of tournaments.

primer
04-27-2014, 02:53 AM
That support system is sub par at best. I have a ticket and I did receive an email notifying me that it was replied to. My ticket was replied to again and this time I did not receive any email notification so I went a day without knowing i'd had a response.

It seems Gameforge just pass the tickets to CZE so i'm confident everything will be sorted given time. But I have absolutely no time for Gameforge at all, ever.

Xenavire
04-27-2014, 03:06 AM
I am mostly bummed that their new support tools were buggy and that they have had to devote time to fixing them. Other than that I am perfectly happy waiting for my ticket to be resolved.

Ogodei
04-27-2014, 04:38 AM
I am usually not a person who rants in internet forums about games in beta, really. I know what it means, I've been in countless betas and always rolled my eyes about people complaining. But my support ticket ending up in the void was just that little bit too much (no it's not in the spam folder). And with Gameforge's bad reputation I just have a very, very bad feeling about this.

I could live with CZE doing a monetized beta at this point at first, even though I found it hard to understand and pretty crazy. But doing it obviously without a plan B if things turned ugly, like a working support system or server reroll?

To those worried about my tone, I'll take back my "insult" (if you mean the "greed, stupidity, despair, ignorance ..." part) as soon as someone gives me a better explanation for why CZE took the course of action that they did. (And with "%$&" I meant "code" of course ;-)) There just is no excuse. "This is beta, it's alway buggy" is exactly the reason they SHOULD NOT have put all our money (as well as their reputation) at stake here. And that's what just makes me angry (yes, I'm angry).

GPrime
04-27-2014, 04:56 AM
Don't worry. Your money is safe. It might take some time to get credit but be patient and take a breath.

Xenavire
04-27-2014, 05:00 AM
Ogodei - in the space of 48 hours they received over 6k new tickets. I know this because that is how many tickets were logged in between my own two (and it may have been less that 48 hours and more than 6k).

They have a lot to deal with right now.

Mahes
04-27-2014, 05:00 AM
They should just do a general refund of tickets used. The amount of time they have to use to individually investigate claims is going to be a lot of hours. Of course this could be part of the testing as I am not on the inside. I imagine we will hear more about this as the week starts.

I agree with the OP in that I find it odd that they chose to start the monetary system at the same time as the server transfer. Everyone knew that the server transfer was not going to go smoothly, so why start the monetary system? They could have waited 2 weeks and I think it would have been received a lot better. Oh well, water under the bridge.

Maylick
04-27-2014, 05:05 AM
Dear HEXer.

Don't you be worry. The CZE are the guys that do know what they are doing. They are confident, ready to solve our problems and ready to do some more amazing stuff for HEX players to get them busy for almost a lifetime)

I can see admins almost 24/7 in game chat answering whole unstopable flood of different questions. They also update their Twitter, forum and other sources pretty often.

Those draft issues you told us about are really sad. I feel really sorry for you, man. I'm sure you will get your boosters and platinum back, aswell as probably you will get something on top of that. They could easily track that kind of data and they would deal with this after they fix current system. You would agree with me, that they need to fix it before looking for support tickets compensation, right?

And anyhow. There could be bugs at any stage of game. Alpha, beta, release. Any of them. CZE are willing to present us whole new gaming experience. I do know what it takes to be a game designer. It's tough and exhausting, but when you have such a great team, resources and experience - nothing could stop them. So I don't doubt they would deal with this issues pretty soon. The only reason they are not responding - they are concentrating on fixing it.

However, had a great opportunity to play draft yesterday. Worked fine for me, got my 5 prize packs) If you won't get your stuff back for some impossible reason - just pm me, I'm ready to share them with you. I do believe in CZE - HEX is going to be a GAME. And all of us can be part of its community.

Ogodei
04-27-2014, 05:17 AM
I don't really care about the money, I am angry because they released the beta the way they did instead of taking one step after another. It was so absolutely obvious it HAD to go wrong, but they did it anyway.

Xenavire
04-27-2014, 05:29 AM
I don't really care about the money, I am angry because they released the beta the way they did instead of taking one step after another.

The game is actually working VERY well for a CLOSED beta that has been up for less than a week. If it was open beta, it would still be fairly good compared to most betas.

You may think they screwed up, and you would be partially right. They could have left tournaments down, and not allowed payments for the first week - that might have been a good plan. But the fact is they got beta up, and even with overloaded servers, they have made it surprisingly stable in less than a week. 4 days in, and it is barely worse than alpha and improving fast, and alpha servers were nearly dead near the end.

Overall, CZE hasn't made any critical mistakes, and they will have the issues sorted out much faster thanks to being able to identify them so fast.

Hieronymous
04-27-2014, 05:51 AM
Ogodei - in the space of 48 hours they received over 6k new tickets. I know this because that is how many tickets were logged in between my own two (and it may have been less that 48 hours and more than 6k).

They have a lot to deal with right now.


Yeah, it's been almost 24 hours now for me and no response at all on my ticket. That's understandable given the holiday, the flood of complaints, etc. but it's also not "good" in an abstract sense.

This is where the rubber is hitting the road for Hex: they've said all the right things up till now but now that there's real money involved they have to start doing them.

Xenavire
04-27-2014, 06:13 AM
Yeah, it's been almost 24 hours now for me and no response at all on my ticket. That's understandable given the holiday, the flood of complaints, etc. but it's also not "good" in an abstract sense.

This is where the rubber is hitting the road for Hex: they've said all the right things up till now but now that there's real money involved they have to start doing them.

And I am sure they will when all the bugs are out of the support system. Tickets themselves are heavily delayed, even without the massive flow of new ones.

I honestly wish I could help them in some way, but all I can do is be patient. But I can assure you, they won't leave anyone unhappy if they can manage it.

Ogodei
04-27-2014, 06:29 AM
Problem is that they put themselves into this position in the first place. Knowingly. There just is no excuse for that.

Hieronymous
04-27-2014, 06:36 AM
Problem is that they put themselves into this position in the first place. Knowingly. There just is no excuse for that.

That I actually disagree with. "This situation" is an inevitability with this type of online play -- the first time people rush your servers there are going to be crashes, and that kind of rush was going to happen when they started handing out the kickstarter rewards. I'm not sure there's much they could've done to ameliorate or prevent this weekend's problems, apart from exactly what they've been doing all along.

After all, this is still closed beta. You're looking inside the sausage factory here; this isn't supposed to be a product ready for the general public yet. Hence the "closed."

The real question is how Crypto will respond to the problems, and that's what is starting to worry me. I'm a patient guy and all but I would have thought some people at least would've started getting their draft tickets refunded by now, and I haven't seen any reports of that yet, which is starting to be a little worrying.

mach
04-27-2014, 06:36 AM
You may think they screwed up, and you would be partially right. They could have left tournaments down, and not allowed payments for the first week - that might have been a good plan. But the fact is they got beta up, and even with overloaded servers, they have made it surprisingly stable in less than a week. 4 days in, and it is barely worse than alpha and improving fast, and alpha servers were nearly dead near the end.


Are the servers still overloaded? I'd think that with tournaments down the number of players would drop significantly. So we won't know how much things are improving until they turn tournaments back on and the servers get stressed again.


And I am sure they will when all the bugs are out of the support system. Tickets themselves are heavily delayed, even without the massive flow of new ones.


This I don't get. Why are there significant bugs in the support system? Why aren't they using a mature, rock-solid support system which has already had all the major bugs ironed out?

Xenavire
04-27-2014, 06:55 AM
Are the servers still overloaded? I'd think that with tournaments down the number of players would drop significantly. So we won't know how much things are improving until they turn tournaments back on and the servers get stressed again.


I can't say for sure if they are currently overloaded at this very moment, but this is essentially dead time (in the weekedays in alpha at this time of day you would see less than 20 people). So right now it is still fairly busy (I could easily count 50+ people, there are 20 idling in the proving grounds as it is, which is as much or more than alpha ever had.) During peak times, I would say it is probably overloaded still, tournaments or not.




This I don't get. Why are there significant bugs in the support system? Why aren't they using a mature, rock-solid support system which has already had all the major bugs ironed out?

They literally just got updated tools before the beta servers went up (they said so on twitter). However, that release turned out to have bugs - something they didn't anticipate. Obviously, this is not something they could have tested earlier (because it was designed to be used in beta) so I don't think it was something they could avoid.

Arbiter
04-27-2014, 06:59 AM
You're not alone in not receiving emails from the support system. I have yet to be able to set my account up because both setting up an account that didn't exist on alpha and setting up support accounts so I can get the account set up through a ticket result in "email sent" pop ups with no email received in any email folder (spam or normal).

It's a problem I hope will be resolved after the weekend is over, as I'd like to get on. I'd love to know what the issue is, as not everyone is having problems.

mach
04-27-2014, 07:11 AM
I can't say for sure if they are currently overloaded at this very moment, but this is essentially dead time (in the weekedays in alpha at this time of day you would see less than 20 people). So right now it is still fairly busy (I could easily count 50+ people, there are 20 idling in the proving grounds as it is, which is as much or more than alpha ever had.) During peak times, I would say it is probably overloaded still, tournaments or not.


Keep in mind that not all players cause equal load. 20 players playing in tournaments could easily cause more load than 50 idling in lobbies.




They literally just got updated tools before the beta servers went up (they said so on twitter). However, that release turned out to have bugs - something they didn't anticipate. Obviously, this is not something they could have tested earlier (because it was designed to be used in beta) so I don't think it was something they could avoid.

This is part of their big misstep. They should have updated one thing at a time rather than everything at once. This was definitely avoidable.

UDareUTake
04-27-2014, 07:18 AM
Just sharing my thoughts, we should be fair to CZE, looking at the amount of tickets they have been receiving, combined with their on-going efforts of fixing the various game elements as well as preparation for the auction house and guild function etc.. The amount of fire-fighting behind the scene must be insane..

And dont forget there were also some issues with their support system that they are fixing, one can only imagine the amount of tickets on hand.. I understand some of you have genuine problems that require CZE's assistance, but dont forget, how many tickets are inside their system are other simple issues such as, "Why cant I log in?", "Where are my kickstarter codes?", "where are my pve cards?" etc etc etc.

Most likely your tickets are not in the "void" but just still in the long line of tickets being handled..

So, just to hijack ur thread abit, for people who missed the sticky thread, try to visit here http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=34978 to see whether can your problems be fixed before sending in a ticket, the more ppl we help, the lesser tickets being submitted, the faster CZE can get to the ppl who really need assistance for their accounts!

So lets all just help out as much as we can and reduce all the finger-pointing/blaming/doubting since it doesnt really benefit anyone.

Corpselocker
04-27-2014, 07:22 AM
I tried to draft a tournament and somehow ended up getting registered for health care.

Xenavire
04-27-2014, 07:23 AM
Keep in mind that not all players cause equal load. 20 players playing in tournaments could easily cause more load than 50 idling in lobbies.

Well, feel free to go check, but I can guarantee you there is more load right now than in almost any point of the alpha (barring the developer drafts and the other stress tests). And even then, it might be coming close, because it is quite busy - and this is still the dead time.





This is part of their big misstep. They should have updated one thing at a time rather than everything at once. This was definitely avoidable.

So what - they should have only moved the servers, and not given any rewards or opened up the shop for testing? Because really, most of the problems lie with the server swap itself, the shop and rewards have had minimal problems. And the support features may have been impossible to test before swapping the servers, so lets completely rule that out.

So we are left with the server swap causing issue - which it would have done no matter what.

What exactly should they have avoided here? Because I can't see anything that they could have changed that would have made a significant difference. Delaying the rewards would have simply delayed the server crash, and the money has been near-flawless. The server swap has been the bulk of the issues.

Ogodei
04-27-2014, 07:23 AM
That I actually disagree with. "This situation" is an inevitability with this type of online play -- the first time people rush your servers there are going to be crashes, and that kind of rush was going to happen when they started handing out the kickstarter rewards. I'm not sure there's much they could've done to ameliorate or prevent this weekend's problems, apart from exactly what they've been doing all along.

After all, this is still closed beta. You're looking inside the sausage factory here; this isn't supposed to be a product ready for the general public yet. Hence the "closed."

The real question is how Crypto will respond to the problems, and that's what is starting to worry me. I'm a patient guy and all but I would have thought some people at least would've started getting their draft tickets refunded by now, and I haven't seen any reports of that yet, which is starting to be a little worrying.

"This situation" was absolutly evitable. Why did they have to put out the real rewards and state that there will be no more wipes. Why did this have to be for real, with real money instead of testing everything and then wiping at sometime later?

My whole point is that the whole server load issue was to be expected. I am not suprised about that and I don't blame them, because it's ALWAYS like that with new online games. Always.

The only explanation is that they wanted our money. Now. And that makes me angry, sorry.

If the whole project would have been at risk if the money wouldn't have started flowing in, then I might be able to forgive that. But I don't think that was the case.

Xenavire
04-27-2014, 07:27 AM
"This situation" was absolutly evitable. Why did they have to put out the real rewards and state that there will be no more wipes. Why did this have to be for real, with real money instead of testing everything and then wiping at sometime later?

My whole point is that the whole server load issue was to be expected. I am not suprised about that and I don't blame them, because it's ALWAYS like that with new online games. Always.

The only explanation is that they wanted our money. Now. And that makes me angry, sorry.

If the whole project would have been at risk if the money wouldn't have started flowing in, then I might be able to forgive that. But I don't think that was the case.

Um, haven't you noticed that there have been only minor (very very minor) issues with the rewards and money parts of beta? The only major issue has been the server itself - the permanency of our accounts part has been flawless, and the interconnected pieces of that has been near flawless.

They had tested all this incredibly well, obviously. The server itself caused some unexpected hiccups, but the features that they were hyping up have been as close to perfect as anyone could expect.

Ogodei
04-27-2014, 07:43 AM
Well, if you call a few hundreds of dollars (or thousands, I don't know how many tournaments bugged out) of your customers just going poof, without a functioning way to compensate them – if you call that a very, very minor issue and close to perfect I don't know.

As we all know there have also been issues with redeeming rewards (people getting a lot more than they backed for). Things could have been much MUCH worse, in my opinion this went incredibly smooth too. But because we were lucky as %$#. Not because they tested it so well.

Why not do at least rewards first, then paid tournaments as the next step? I just don't get it.

Well, let's wait and see how they handle the issue in the next few days. I just have zero trust in Gamforge's customer support but I really hope to stand corrected.

mach
04-27-2014, 07:49 AM
Well, feel free to go check, but I can guarantee you there is more load right now than in almost any point of the alpha (barring the developer drafts and the other stress tests). And even then, it might be coming close, because it is quite busy - and this is still the dead time.


I'd check, but I don't have that kind of access. Which is a good thing, because if I did that would be a huge security hole.



So what - they should have only moved the servers, and not given any rewards or opened up the shop for testing? Because really, most of the problems lie with the server swap itself, the shop and rewards have had minimal problems. And the support features may have been impossible to test before swapping the servers, so lets completely rule that out.

So we are left with the server swap causing issue - which it would have done no matter what.

What exactly should they have avoided here? Because I can't see anything that they could have changed that would have made a significant difference. Delaying the rewards would have simply delayed the server crash, and the money has been near-flawless. The server swap has been the bulk of the issues.

Yes, they should have done the server swap first, then gradually moved on from there. People would be a lot less upset if these issues had been worked out before people were playing for keeps.

And it would have been a lot better for CZE too. Issues cost them a lot more now, since they have to compensate people, which costs them both time and money.

hex_colin
04-27-2014, 07:52 AM
I tried to draft a tournament and somehow ended up getting registered for health care.

Corpselocker - this made me LOL! :)

GPrime
04-27-2014, 07:57 AM
I would have thought some people at least would've started getting their draft tickets refunded by now, and I haven't seen any reports of that yet, which is starting to be a little worrying.

Why would that be worrying? Tournaments aren't even working again yet, so people couldn't even spend the draft tickets if they had them. First things first. =)

Kami
04-27-2014, 07:57 AM
GameForge is only a front-end for support. CZE has full oversight and they're working on it. Their goal is to have customer service be on par with large companies like Amazon, etc. - in terms of quality (despite what you might think of large companies :) )

CZE has stated in interviews, Q&As, etc. that any errors or discrepancies will always be deal with by them in favour of the player.

Granted it's a little bit rough at the moment but expect improvements. The fact that CZE actually responds to players, interacts with players, talks to players during their development is unparalleled to most game development companies already.

Hieronymous
04-27-2014, 08:08 AM
G
CZE has stated in interviews, Q&As, etc. that any errors or discrepancies will always be deal with by them in favour of the player.

Granted it's a little bit rough at the moment but expect improvements. The fact that CZE actually responds to players, interacts with players, talks to players during their development is unparalleled to most game development companies already.

Yeah, y'all are saying and so far have been doing all the right things up till now and fair credit for that. I think people are just a little worried because this is the first time there's actual money on the line. That both makes it more worrying because people fear they've lost part of their kickstarter rewards (even if it's just the free draft ticket), and more worrying because we don't have a clear record of past reimbursements to point to (since CZE hasn't yet needed to reimburse anyone's lost digital rewards before now).

All said and done this is just an inherently nerve-wracking time in any online game's development. Everything you're saying is true but . . . it's still a little nerve-wracking.

Xenavire
04-27-2014, 08:10 AM
Well, if you call a few hundreds of dollars (or thousands, I don't know how many tournaments bugged out) of your customers just going poof, without a functioning way to compensate them if you call that a very, very minor issue and close to perfect I don't know.

As we all know there have also been issues with redeeming rewards (people getting a lot more than they backed for). Things could have been much MUCH worse, in my opinion this went incredibly smooth too. But because we were lucky as %$#. Not because they tested it so well.

Why not do at least rewards first, then paid tournaments as the next step? I just don't get it.

Well, let's wait and see how they handle the issue in the next few days. I just have zero trust in Gamforge's customer support but I really hope to stand corrected.

Almost every single person was using a free ticket, and while a lot of drafts did fire, most people were eliminated fairly long before any bugs arose. So cut your insane number down to hundreds, at most, and then remember that a day of failed drafts is going to be a drop in the bucket to reimburse (and that technically costs CZE nothing because there are no production costs.)

And at the time, they assumed the CS tools were functional, and those tools will be functional soon, if not already. You are jumping to conclusions and saying the house is on fire, just because someone is holding a damp match.



I'd check, but I don't have that kind of access. Which is a good thing, because if I did that would be a huge security hole.


I didn't mean check the raw data, I just meant log into the game. It is very busy, far more so than most of alpha.




Yes, they should have done the server swap first, then gradually moved on from there. People would be a lot less upset if these issues had been worked out before people were playing for keeps.

And it would have been a lot better for CZE too. Issues cost them a lot more now, since they have to compensate people, which costs them both time and money.

Except that waiting could have potentially lost them just as much money and time due to development issues that they will be fixing right now. Plus all the ill will for not being able to come into beta and instantly claim rewards, etc. So far they have used great judgement and done an amazing job. If the server and tournaments are not sorted out by this time next week, I will be in here agreeing with you, but right now everything seems to be moving as fast or even faster than we should expect from a closed beta. I have seen open betas, and launches, and hell, feature patches, with worse first weeks than this.

Look at WoW - a simple content patch had people falling through the ground, randomly, and dying, for over a week. Years and years after the official launch. CZE are doing so amazingly well that it defies belief.

UDareUTake
04-27-2014, 08:52 AM
Scenario A: CZE takes things one step at a time.
Some ppl will complain why are they taking so long

Scenario B: CZE tries to push the boundaries and over-stretch a little.
Some ppl will complain why cant they take things at a time

http://i.imgur.com/pNmbR0d.png

MasterN64
04-27-2014, 09:21 AM
[/IMG]

This image sums up the situation pretty well. While pushing back the rewards a while should have happened IMO to accommodate for early stress and glitches they opted to risk it a bit and go for it. Yet if they had postponed rewards everyone would scream about being promised to get their rewards during beta and would be screaming anyway.

If you trusted Crypto enough to become a backer trust them enough to set things straight and be patient.

Khazrakh
04-27-2014, 09:30 AM
Also something to consider: If they hadn't given out the rewards there wouldn't have been nearly as much players around and thus the problems we have right now might very well have occurred at a later point in time.
You can't know if something works until you test it and that's why it's labeled as "Closed Beta" - things are meant to break ;)

plaguedealer
04-27-2014, 10:53 AM
I lost also lost draft tickets to the tournament bugs. I have faith that crypto will reimburse me fairly. However, it would be good for crypto to nip this thread in the bud, make a public statement about what happened yesterday, and talk about compensation. The longer they wait to discuss the issue, the harder people will judge.

hex_colin
04-27-2014, 10:59 AM
I lost also lost draft tickets to the tournament bugs. I have faith that crypto will reimburse me fairly. However, it would be good for crypto to nip this thread in the bud, make a public statement about what happened yesterday, and talk about compensation. The longer they wait to discuss the issue, the harder people will judge.

They've already said in multiple places, and frequently in-game, that people will get reimbursed if they put in a ticket. I'm wondering what more you want them to do?

UDareUTake
04-27-2014, 11:14 AM
In case you are still worried.. every single decision(or pretty much most if ppl want to nitpick at me) cory and his team have made since the start of KS, have been for the benefit/advantage of the backers and fans..almost to a point I felt they were giving way more than what they shd have..

What the backers wanted, Cory always delivered where possible. Be it more packs bonuses during the KS stretch-goals campaign, to more copies of exclusives, more value in allowing ppl to stack their vip when combining tiers, etc etc etc..

I dun see why anyone shd be worried about them not reimbursting whatever draft tickets ppl have lost during this tournament downtime, and I do understand your concern and frustration on why this is not addressed.

With staff working hard to get the tournament back up and other bugs in the game as well as in their support system, as well as on-going work with the remaining critical components (Auction house etc) and with hundreds if not thousands of tickets filed for all sorts of reasons for them to go through.

The least we can do is to show some patience and trust towards Cory and his team.

plaguedealer
04-27-2014, 11:43 AM
They've already said in multiple places, and frequently in-game, that people will get reimbursed if they put in a ticket. I'm wondering what more you want them to do?

I agree that they have said that people will be compensated in stream interviews and in-game chat. A simple forum post or twitter would suffice me. Please note that I am not trying to be critical. However, there would be a (you know what storm) if this was open beta and this happened to the masses and there was not a forum or twitter post.

hex_colin
04-27-2014, 11:45 AM
I agree that they have said that people will be compensated in stream interviews and in-game chat. A simple forum post or twitter would suffice me. Please note that I am not trying to be critical. However, there would be a (you know what storm) if this was open beta and this happened to the masses and there was not a forum or twitter post.

Last paragraph of this article on the very front page of the site... An article that the email with the Beta codes implored you to read... https://hextcg.com/closed-beta-primer/

plaguedealer
04-27-2014, 11:49 AM
Last paragraph of this article on the very front page of the site... An article that the email with the Beta codes implored you to read... https://hextcg.com/closed-beta-primer/

You are right there has been discussion about this issue in the past. I am not arguing with you about that.

hex_colin
04-27-2014, 11:51 AM
You are right there has been discussion about this issue in the past. I am not arguing with you about that.

Nothing has changed between now and then. No further comments needed.

plaguedealer
04-27-2014, 12:02 PM
Nothing has changed between now and then. No further comments needed.

I really don't want to argue with you. But saying that a company does not need to communicate with their customers after a extraneous event has occurred seems like poor customer service.

Kroan
04-27-2014, 12:10 PM
I really don't want to argue with you. But saying that a company does not need to communicate with their customers after a extraneous event has occurred seems like poor customer service.

It's in the article they posted on their website this week. How is that extraneous?

hex_colin
04-27-2014, 12:18 PM
I really don't want to argue with you. But saying that a company does not need to communicate with their customers after a extraneous event has occurred seems like poor customer service.

They basically said: "it's Beta, there will be bugs (including one we already know about), and we'll compensate you if you're affected". Beta started, there were bugs, and that's a extraneous event?

Ogodei
04-27-2014, 12:35 PM
Concerning the donkey: my complaint is that there shouldn't 4 fat people try to ride the donkey at once, because everybody knows it will kill the poor animal. So if people try anyway they have either bad intentions or no brains.

And my other problem is the experience with Gameforge's very shady support website. If I select "item reimbursement" this is the pre-written text I get in the ticket:

---
Account:
Involved Character (Server, Name):
When did the problem take place? (Date, Time):
Exact name of the missing Item:
Which problem caused the loss?:
---

Character? Server? What? And until now I did not even receive an automated notfication that they received my ticket and are working on it, just silence. Yes, they got the right email. No, there is nothing in my spam folder (their other email to confirm registration got through too).

It just doesn't seem that they (Gameforge) were prepared for this in any way, otherwise I would at least expect to read something about platinum, boosters, cards or tournaments or anything TCG related in that prewritten text. It's just some random default text from another game it seems.

YourOpponent
04-27-2014, 12:42 PM
I did not receive a letter from my support ticket either. Am I worried about the matter? I am a little bit, but I trust Crypto's judgment and they have done what they can multiple times to make things right. Just for future reference though take a screen shot in case the tournaments go down in the future for your support tickets. Just in case...it doesn't hurt.

Ogodei
04-27-2014, 01:09 PM
http://i.imgur.com/pNmbR0d.png

Problem is that actually this is what happened with beta:

http://bibliablogger.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/donkey-pulling-cart.jpg

Ogodei
04-27-2014, 01:15 PM
Wait, I got another: 1695

incitfulmonk21
04-27-2014, 01:35 PM
I experienced the tournament bug. It happened the first game I played and tournaments finished properly before it happened therfore close to the earliest people could of experienced it. It has been ~30 hours on a weeked when the bug occurred on the weekend.

Seriously maybe take a step back. I understand wanting a confirmation. I understand wanting a response. I understand the terribad that is gameforge.

tl;dr 30 hours on a weekend with thousands of tickets take a breath.

Yoss
04-27-2014, 02:49 PM
Didn't read past the first few posts, but I'll say that the support system has worked for me with the one ticket I sent. It wasn't fast, but it did get the job done. That was during Alpha. I have not tried during Beta yet.

UDareUTake
04-27-2014, 07:39 PM
Like I said ogodei, and to others who felt that CZE is putting too much on the table at a go.

If they were to do it slower in multiple phases. People from another camp will be complaining why didnt they do more at the same time so more bugs can be identified at the start so they could begin all the major bug squashing at the earliest possible time instead of adding it phase by phase.

Its hard for Cory and the team to make a decision that pleases everyone.

Too slow, ppl will yell and moan about how far Hex have fallen behind the kickstarter date and why cant they progress faster.

Adding too much content at once to try to speed up the process, inevitably will face more bugs and slightly more unstable start, which in turn, others will complain about not being able to play etc.

I just hope everyone can just be patient, even an AAA company like Blizzard with pockets as deep as one can imagine and with crazy amount of talents and manpower can screw up on the release one of their biggest titles.

Remember this?

http://i.imgur.com/4394ShH.png

So lets just give them more time and I believe we wont be disappointed :)

But to be fair, the one major improvement we should see are information by the team to be streamlined into one area.

As information are floating around twitter/facebook/forums(various threads), it'll be easier if all info are posted onto the forum, and using twitter/facebook to direct all the attention/traffic to the specific threads.

So people are able to receive the info and help they require at the earliest possible time.

hacky
04-27-2014, 07:51 PM
As information are floating around twitter/facebook/forums(various threads), it'll be easier if all info are posted onto the forum, and using twitter/facebook to direct all the attention/traffic to the specific threads.

Don't even need to even have specific threads. Use these three sources:

1) Twitter - http://twitter.com/hextcg
Don't even need to register, just check on it for updates. Tweets tend to link to the forums/site when more info is available.

2) Hexrealms Purple Tracker - http://www.hexrealms.com/content.php?69-purple-tracker
Until our forums get it innately, this compiles CZE responses quite nicely.

3) In-game
There have been CZE staff all weekend fielding all of the questions that are asked hunreds of times each.

DreamPuppet
04-27-2014, 08:08 PM
Having to pay to be a beta tester really rubs me the wrong way and that's why i haven't redeemed any of my codes yet.

If im paying for something it should be something that has been tested and proven to already work. There are countries with laws against charging for products that are not fit for purpose.

I know they will refund people for broken tournaments but we shouldn't IMHO even be paying to test tournaments in early closed beta where everyone knows problems will arise.

mach
04-27-2014, 08:10 PM
Like I said ogodei, and to others who felt that CZE is putting too much on the table at a go.

If they were to do it slower in multiple phases. People from another camp will be complaining why didnt they do more at the same time so more bugs can be identified at the start so they could begin all the major bug squashing at the earliest possible time instead of adding it phase by phase.

Its hard for Cory and the team to make a decision that pleases everyone.


You can't make a decision that pleases everyone, but you can and should make the right decision. In this case, they didn't do so.

Doing it the way they did was wrong because issues take more time and effort to make right when you have to compensate the people affected since people are playing for keeps.

To see the kind of issues which are unlikely to have arisen if they had done this properly, just read the other threads here. Consider the case of the players who opened more packs than they wanted to because of the bug which told them they had more packs than they actually had. Do you compensate those players? If so, how? These issues take time and money to resolve and you risk pissing people off.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 08:14 PM
Everything they do risks pissing people off. The point is to get the game finished as fast as possible, if they use data they got from the mad rush into the game to fix a bug that may not have shown up until after full release if they had don't gradually as you suggested then it was absolutely the right call. We can't know if a bug like that showed up or was fixed. But it's a very real possibility that they got much better and higher quality information from the way things were done.

mach
04-27-2014, 08:22 PM
Everything they do risks pissing people off. The point is to get the game finished as fast as possible, if they use data they got from the mad rush into the game to fix a bug that may not have shown up until after full release if they had don't gradually as you suggested then it was absolutely the right call. We can't know if a bug like that showed up or was fixed. But it's a very real possibility that they got much better and higher quality information from the way things were done.

I think there's an even greater possibility that the reverse is true. By doing one thing at once, you focus testing on that thing and so get more of the bugs out.

Think back to Alpha. They could have given us everything late last year (since there were reports of drafting being done internally). By your logic, they should have. But I think they made the right call in rolling out one feature at a time and focusing testing on it. I think that approach was more efficient then and I think would have been more efficient for the beta phase as well.

UDareUTake
04-27-2014, 08:27 PM
Like you said, if you agree that you cant please everyone, then what is the "right" decision?

The only right decision, is the option Cory and his team deemed appropriate at that point in time when making that decision which I am certain they have went through countless discussion to determine what they should push for and how much they should stretch themselves and what are the risks they are willing to take.

Anything after that, its easy for someone to step in and say, oh you shd have done xxx instead.

Anything after, for us is a merely, oh look, you should have done this/that instead.

So my emphasis is, instead of trying to debate over stuff that we do not have access to details to or the ability to change, the best way moving forward is for us players to help and assist other players or just show some patience and leniency.

At the end of the day,most of the debates happen on the forums because of how much we want this game to succeed.
So lets all chip in and do our role and let CZE do theirs

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 08:33 PM
Exactly they did the one thing at a time in alpha, the one thing this time was see how all aspects of the game ran on the new hardware. Which they did. Which will have logs. If you think back to the alpha there were times it was running fine but they needed more people to push the server to a point where the bugs presented themselves. They got that out of the way here with the launch, as long as they can fix up those issues we should have a much less painful beta. Rip the bandaid off fast kind of situation.

Udare is right, hemhawing over their decisions being right or wrong is pointless. They chose this route, the debate was over before it began. It's pretty much impossible to know how things would have turned out in the alternate reality where they chose to do it differently. The game is in beta. The beta bugs are in the open for the devs. All that remains is to fix them, and see what else can pop up.

Mike411
04-27-2014, 08:42 PM
Okay, maybe it was my mistake to play in a tournament at all, but at that time I still had trust in CZE, which I now lost for obvious reasons. I just don't understand why they did monetized beta at this point, which was SO obvious to end in the chaos we have now (and we're probably lucky it's not much worse).

Beta is a testing phase, please remember that everyone. And if you had trust in CZE then you would trust them when they say that they will reimburse you. They've said that time and time again.

mach
04-27-2014, 08:52 PM
Like you said, if you agree that you cant please everyone, then what is the "right" decision?

The only right decision, is the option Cory and his team deemed appropriate at that point in time when making that decision which I am certain they have went through countless discussion to determine what they should push for and how much they should stretch themselves and what are the risks they are willing to take.


So you're saying that it was the right decision because it was the decision they made? Or in other words, that they are incapable of making mistakes?

They make mistakes just like the rest of us. When they do, we should call them out on it so they learn from them and don't repeat them.


Exactly they did the one thing at a time in alpha, the one thing this time was see how all aspects of the game ran on the new hardware.


That what they should have done, not what they actually did.

At the same time as the hardware swap, they did the final account wipe. And the KS rewards. And monetization. And for-keeps tournaments.

They should have done these things one at a time. Once each thing worked decently, on to the next one. This wouldn't have had to take long. If things were stable after 24 hours, good enough.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 08:55 PM
I disagree. The start of beta is when rewards were supposed to go out and playing for keeps was supposed to happen. That's what they did. The problems we experienced were extremely minor. No major issues happened that call for a redo mostly people just need a free draft ticket reimbursed. And they got a ton of information on every system. It really couldn't have gone better.

all aspects of the game include... You know, all the aspects, be that code redemption, or tournaments or keeping cards or buying plat or turning plat into boosters. Etc.

UDareUTake
04-27-2014, 08:58 PM
It was the "right" decision simply because, at the moment in time they must have weighed their options and accessed the risk, so whats wrong about that decision?

What if they choose to do it one step at a time, there will still be people complaining and saying that they shd have done it the other way round.

Right now, you are on the assumption that IF they were to roll out in multiple phases, it would be better for the game. But it is something we do not know how it will turn out.

There might be bugs or problems that might not surface earlier on, but come back at a later stage to haunt them.

So there are always pros and cons, but in this case, the line is not as clear as which is the "Right" or "Wrong" choice.

knightofeffect
04-27-2014, 09:31 PM
It was the "right" decision simply because, at the moment in time they must have weighed their options and accessed the risk, so whats wrong about that decision?

What if they choose to do it one step at a time, there will still be people complaining and saying that they shd have done it the other way round.

Right now, you are on the assumption that IF they were to roll out in multiple phases, it would be better for the game. But it is something we do not know how it will turn out.

There might be bugs or problems that might not surface earlier on, but come back at a later stage to haunt them.

So there are always pros and cons, but in this case, the line is not as clear as which is the "Right" or "Wrong" choice.

Look, I'm a fan of CZE and I really enjoy Hex, but it is quite obvious that a lot of mistakes were made with this beta.

Using a new and buggy support system to stand up against a flood of support tickets for a new release on new servers is just a terrible idea, no if and or buts about it. It was avoidable by rolling out the support system first and vigorously testing it for a week via user input or test scripts.

Similarly, even using brand new servers for this release was avoidable and, iirc, Cory originally said that it would be avoided by moving the alpha to the new servers a couple weeks before the launch of closed beta in order to burn them in. That did not happen and we have seen the result.

I believe that CZE knew all of this information (clearly with the original plans for the server transfer) but choose to "weigh the risks and options" as you say and erred against prudent caution for some reason. If you were to take the average technological industry professional and ask them if launching a really complex program for thousands of users on new and untested servers with 3rd party support on a new and untested support system, how many do you think would have weighed those circumstances and said "GO FOR IT!". It makes me think there were other aspects involved that we probably will never know about.

I know we all wanted beta real bad, but its hard to argue that it doesn't feel particularly rushed at this point.

EDIT:
I should clarify, that I have personally had no issues with beta and am not upset in the slightest. Honestly, I expected some pretty heavy issues although the ongoing state of tournaments has somewhat exceeded my expectations, I think its still pretty reasonable.

The only thing I'm concerned with is public perception hit that CZE is taking, not so much just for this one point in time in closed beta, but the perception hit they will continue to receive if similar problems continue to pop up as we move to open beta (and we don't really have much of a reason to assume they won't with that even larger server flood).

I do grow weary with the some of the more aggressive defense force components on the forum, but I guess someone has to do it, and I'd rather have that than the opposite.

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 10:05 PM
If the beta went smoothly, we wouldn't be fixing bugs, simple as that. These problems had to happen in order to get fixed. Personally. I'd rather as many problems get fixed as possible in the early beta so we can have a smoother transition later.

The he support issues were unforeseen and that is a mistake absolutely, but it has very little to do with this beta migration.

Arminace
04-27-2014, 10:11 PM
Well, all I can say is: stay cool its a beta.

At least you can play with a lot of cards because you got your codes.
I even didn't recive any one until yet, and I've bought 3 of them (Dungeon Crawler, Champion and a Slacker Backer).
And no, they aren't in the spam folder. I guess they got all passed to the internal accountname I've got by them due to account seperation (arminace1@aol.com instead of my real adress arminace@aol.com). The ticket is now 1 week old and its stated that it got passed to a community manager. The second ticket with the wiped draft stuff is now 2 days old.

Regarding the support (also germany):
Yeah it takes generally longer then before (before gameforge got it passed), but this is common if 2 companies work together on one supportsystem. Especially if they have completly different competence levels.). My average gameforge experience with all accounts is 6 days and 2 posts in one ticket and you have to take into Account that they get flooded with tickets right now.

So stay cool and don't expect any unrealistical support times (like 24hours in Germany). I expect right now something like 9 days. At least it should get solved...you just have to be patient.

GatticusFinch
04-27-2014, 10:30 PM
Too slow, ppl will yell and moan about how far Hex have fallen behind the kickstarter date and why cant they progress.

The kickstarter date had the game full launch in October of last year, so I think we can throw that out.

When the game was first in alpha, they did an absolutely horrific job of informing people of what was going on. They have gotten better. However, I expect a lot more from a very expensive kickstarter. I haven't see anyone just come out and say "yes, you will be compensated with X."

Frankly, these monetized betas we are seeing in games today are a very negative trend because of problems like this.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 01:53 AM
The kickstarter date had the game full launch in October of last year, so I think we can throw that out.

And the fan reaction to that delay, and the complaints about it still taking too long didn't contribute to this final push?

Utter hypocricy.

And this final push has been very positive so far. The largest problem is tournaments. There are a few edge cases that had horrible bugs, and those will be resolved when the team is able, likely sooner than later.

I swear, we need to start linking to hard evidence of other companies and their much, much worse launches, and compare it to our amazing closed beta.

joseph5185
04-28-2014, 02:03 AM
@Xenavire... Idk if it's worth all the trouble. We know it's great. If others fail to realize, so be it.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 02:09 AM
@Xenavire... Idk if it's worth all the trouble. We know it's great. If others fail to realize, so be it.

Eh, I give it a week or two before the doubters completely convert. I know 90% of the doubters barely played alpha, and I fully understand and respect the doubters who were in alpha - but they will figure out how well CZE is doing soon enough.

Lunarath
04-28-2014, 02:14 AM
We all know the people complaining, will do 1 of 2 things.

Either they will just stay and play the game and keep whining about everything forever. There's nothing to be done about those people.

Or they will give it a short amount of time to see if it's fixed. If it's fixed they will play and be happy and we'll never hear from them again. If they're still not happy they will quit and come back when they hear about the game going into release some times in the future.

Either way anything we say is a waste of breath.

UDareUTake
04-28-2014, 02:18 AM
I swear, we need to start linking to hard evidence of other companies and their much, much worse launches, and compare it to our amazing closed beta.

One of the more popular ones that ppl will never forget

http://i.imgur.com/4394ShH.png

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 02:31 AM
One of the more popular ones that ppl will never forget

http://i.imgur.com/4394ShH.png

The outrage was hilarious. And guess what? Ever since Reaper of souls released, all their servers have been faulty. Battle.net over all of their games was affected (not just diablo) and players were unable to log into WoW etc. Plus all the latency and disconnects in diablo.

I just have to laugh at how well CZE is doing compared to that. :D

mach
04-28-2014, 02:38 AM
I just have to laugh at how well CZE is doing compared to that. :D

Not really a fair comparison. Real-time games are a lot more complex than turn-based games like Hex. Plus they have orders of magnitude more players.

elfstone
04-28-2014, 02:46 AM
I play Diablo 3 daily, usually do a rift or 2 a day. and maaaan the lag the last couple months O_o. I dont dare continue my hardcore characters for fear of lag death :p

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 03:03 AM
Not really a fair comparison. Real-time games are a lot more complex than turn-based games like Hex. Plus they have orders of magnitude more players.

See:


I play Diablo 3 daily, usually do a rift or 2 a day. and maaaan the lag the last couple months O_o. I dont dare continue my hardcore characters for fear of lag death :p

It shouldn't take weeks or months for a company like Blizzard to deal with latency issues. They are a huge company with tons of resources available.

And Diablo went through alpha, a bunch of test builds and demo builds... And so did the expansion. They had open and closed betas for it. And they still have had some severe issues, after launching Diablo 3, and again with Reaper of souls.

I think CZE is handling the server issues magnificently.

Ogodei
04-28-2014, 06:32 AM
You "believers" don't have to "convert" me to anything (What kind of lingo is that anyway? Are we still talking about a game?). I love the game, I've been having a lot of fun since alpha, I'm still having fun with the game in the current state and will be playing it for a long time. Also I think the developers of the game are a fine bunch of people and have a lot of respect of their endeavors.

I am merely stating my opinion that by looking at the obvious facts your mighty unerring devs may have made a bad decision there. That it was the best possible decision and that they had no better alternative, because they had to please the angry mob or because it was the only way to find certain bugs is just not true, sorry.

Again, I'm not complaining that there are server issues, since that was OF COURSE to be expected. And because it happens all the time, even to experienced game developers like Blizzard and EA it's just pure arrogance to assume it can't happen to HEX as well. And that's why it wasn't very clever to add so many new untested features at once for beta.

Why couldn't they at least do it step by step over the course of a week or so? Why did they do it without a rock solid plan B to compensate people if things went wrong? I mean at least something like a "report bugged tournament" button with automatic compensation or something to make it easier to handle things. I was just totally shocked when I found out that this horrible support site is the only thing they rely upon when things get ugly.

There just is no good explanation why they took that unnecessary risk and as I stated before we are damn lucky that it went as well as it did.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 06:41 AM
Why couldn't they at least do it step by step over the course of a week or so? Why did they do it without a rock solid plan B to compensate people if things went wrong? I mean at least something like a "report bugged tournament" button with automatic compensation or something to make it easier to handle things. I was just totally shocked when I found out that this horrible support site is the only thing they rely upon when things get ugly.


Hmm, lets see, maybe because everyone and their grandmother would click that button for free packs? Automatic compensation is the most stupid idea I have ever heard and is totally open to abuse, and with the systems for checking reports currently lagging behind, there would be no way to verify these things until much later. Some plan B.

No, they have done it nearly flawlessly. They made one large mistake (not having a fallback to the current ticket system) and I don't know how they could have avoided that one, and one small mistake - the tournaments themselves, and that seems like mostly a server issue.

As I am looking at it, the only systems that aren't more or less rock solid (starting on the launch day of beta no less) were servers and support, neither one being easily preventable, but both fixable with time. And that is exactly what is happening.

So tell me - other than support (which is being worked on, and is simply slow rather than non-functional), which features have failed to work and should have been delayed? Tournament is the only suspect I can see, and it should be fixed within 48 hours (meaning it will be fixed within a week of beta launch, around the time we should expect a feature to be added anyway.)

Ogodei
04-28-2014, 06:44 AM
Well, most tournaments locked up while still drafting. Can't be so hard to give people their stuff back if not a single match has even initialized. I didn't even get the cards that I had drafted up to that point. They could have at least added some backup code in one form or another (and I hope they will do that now at least).

Edit: example:

IF (no prizes were paid out after X amount of time) AND (the tournamnet is currently not running) THEN (give poeple their %&$ back)

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 06:56 AM
Well, most tournaments locked up while still drafting. Can't be so hard to give people their stuff back if not a single match has even initialized. I didn't even get the cards that I had drafted up to that point. They could have at least added some backup code in one form or another (and I hope they will do that now at least).

It is that hard because first they have to verify who was taking part, and who got cards/rewards/nothing. That is why it is taking so long, because it is basically a first come, first serve ticket process. They will catch up, and suddenly all these complaints will vanish.

All anyone needs is a little patience and understanding. I am in the same boat here - I have two open tickets, and one was passed onto to someone else on Thursday - haven't heard a peep since on either one. It might be a little frustrating, but we know exactly why it is taking so long, and as far as I know they were working the whole weekend on it.

I am just grateful that I didn't make any mistakes with my login details, because a few people can't play yet because of the backlog of tickets and the faulty systems (a lot of which are being/were dealt with by hand, thankfully.)

Hieronymous
04-28-2014, 07:12 AM
It is that hard because first they have to verify who was taking part, and who got cards/rewards/nothing. That is why it is taking so long, because it is basically a first come, first serve ticket process. They will catch up, and suddenly all these complaints will vanish.

Has anyone gotten a tourney ticket refunded yet though? If the problem is just the backlog, we'd see people posting that they'd had their problems fixed and it was just a matter of time. It doesn't look like that's happening, so the problem must be more general.

UDareUTake
04-28-2014, 07:18 AM
we can continue speculating, but we wont know the answer.

Most importantly I believe this matter wont be just swept under the carpet and forgotten. So for those who are still waiting for the refund/reimbursement and worried that about not being compensated just wait awhile longer.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 07:19 AM
Has anyone gotten a tourney ticket refunded yet though? If the problem is just the backlog, we'd see people posting that they'd had their problems fixed and it was just a matter of time. It doesn't look like that's happening, so the problem must be more general.

Well, I have heard a few people talking about other issues being resolved, but I have no idea if those were done by hand or not. So that's a little up in the air, but I can only assume that things should be working smoothly fairly soon. I mean, if a 6-day old ticket isn't resolved a week from now, then we have a huge problem on our hands.

Lawlschool
04-28-2014, 07:39 AM
Has anyone gotten a tourney ticket refunded yet though? If the problem is just the backlog, we'd see people posting that they'd had their problems fixed and it was just a matter of time. It doesn't look like that's happening, so the problem must be more general.

I'm guessing Gameforge support doesn't work over the weekend. I had a ticket I put in on Thurs responded to on Fri, but the two I put in on Fri haven't been answered yet.

Hieronymous
04-28-2014, 08:05 AM
I'm guessing Gameforge support doesn't work over the weekend. I had a ticket I put in on Thurs responded to on Fri, but the two I put in on Fri haven't been answered yet.

My ticket from Saturday morning was marked "This ticket is being handled by GameOperator," so I don't think the holdup is Gameforge. I think at this point it looks like there's some problem on CZE's end, unfortunately. I'm sure they're working on it but it's Monday morning now so everyone should be back in the office and figuring out a response by now.

Rendakor
04-28-2014, 08:57 AM
There's no point in processing tournament ticket refunds when tournaments are still not functional. My guess is the support system is just not prioritizing them, and instead focusing on people who can't login, haven't gotten codes yet, etc.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 09:43 AM
There's no point in processing tournament ticket refunds when tournaments are still not functional. My guess is the support system is just not prioritizing them, and instead focusing on people who can't login, haven't gotten codes yet, etc.

While it is true they can't be redeemed, people would obviously appreciate having the information on whether they will be refunded or not. So there is a point, but there is no rush yet.

GatticusFinch
04-28-2014, 09:48 AM
For those of us who lost Pro Player tickets, that is an especially valid question since they are currently time locked and will not stack.

Rendakor
04-28-2014, 10:23 AM
While it is true they can't be redeemed, people would obviously appreciate having the information on whether they will be refunded or not. So there is a point, but there is no rush yet.
CZE has said, repeatedly, that everyone will be refunded. If that's not enough I don't know what to tell them, except that their issue is less important than people who are entirely unable to play.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 10:31 AM
CZE has said, repeatedly, that everyone will be refunded. If that's not enough I don't know what to tell them, except that their issue is less important than people who are entirely unable to play.

I never said they should go first - and you assume that everyone is simply going to get a refund. Some people finished drafting, and got through a few rounds - they have no idea what to expect, perhaps they get no refund at all, etc.

I personally haven't touched my gold or any boosters since the drafts were up - I made it to the finals with a very strong deck, and the game locked up, forcing someone to forfeit. I never even got a chance to play that round, so I have no idea if I deserved that loss or not, and while I can accept it, I would like to know if CZE plans to reimburse me anything or not, so I can start using my gold and packs again. It is inconvenient, and not insignificant, but I am being patient and waiting.

Hieronymous
04-28-2014, 10:51 AM
I never said they should go first - and you assume that everyone is simply going to get a refund. Some people finished drafting, and got through a few rounds - they have no idea what to expect, perhaps they get no refund at all, etc..

Yeah, this is the boat I'm in. The tourney I was in crashed midway through drafting. I'd already snagged several cards I particularly wanted, including a legendary (Zombie Plague). It'd be nice to have a clear answer as to what a "full refund" means in that situation -- i.e., are the cards I drafted gone, or do I get a fresh ticket, or ?

Otherwise I doubt the staff working to fix tournaments are the same staff that respond to CS complaints (if so they probably need to hire new staff!)

Rendakor
04-28-2014, 11:02 AM
My point is not that the people working to fix tournaments are the same people responding to CS tickets. I'm saying that they have a variety of CS tickets to deal with: tournament reimbursing, failure to recieve KS code, account email/password not working, etc. and of those, reimbursing people for tournaments is the least important.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 11:02 AM
Well, they said they wouldn't take drafted cards, but they might take back rewards/gold and gift a free draft (which is effectively worth about as much, or more.)

But there are many ways they could handle it - you keep everything, get a free ticket. They remove part of the reward, give you a free ticket. They grant you extra packs and gold to make up the difference between you and your opponent in that round. Or simply give you the same as you could have won in that round.

Or any combination of gold, boosters, and tickets. There is no way of knowing until they actually give out some refunds.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 11:05 AM
My point is not that the people working to fix tournaments are the same people responding to CS tickets. I'm saying that they have a variety of CS tickets to deal with: tournament reimbursing, failure to recieve KS code, account email/password not working, etc. and of those, reimbursing people for tournaments is the least important.

I don't think we ever said otherwise - the CS staff don't work on the game systems, we all know that. But they should be resolving the tickets in the order received, and if that means someone can't log in, and just happened to be behind someone who needs to be reimbursed, then they shouldn't juggle those tickets around just to address the more urgent one - the juggling itself wastes time, etc, so they should just try to fix them in order as quickly as possible.

Gwaer
04-28-2014, 11:07 AM
I don't think we ever said otherwise - the CS staff don't work on the game systems, we all know that. But they should be resolving the tickets in the order received, and if that means someone can't log in, and just happened to be behind someone who needs to be reimbursed, then they shouldn't juggle those tickets around just to address the more urgent one - the juggling itself wastes time, etc, so they should just try to fix them in order as quickly as possible.

uhhh... No they should definitely try to address the most urgent tickets first. Sorry.

Rendakor
04-28-2014, 11:09 AM
It's pretty common for CS to address high priority issues before low priority ones. I'm not certain that's how they're handling it here but it wouldn't surpise me. For example it was common in WoW to always submit your petition under "Stuck Character" regardless of your actual issue because those tickets god addressed much faster.

If the CS guys know tournaments still aren't working, there's no rush to reimburse tickets because it's not going to change anything except making people feel better. Getting people into the game and/or getting them the KS rewards they spent money on is much more important.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 11:18 AM
Well, from what I can see on my end, there is very little to define the priority until you actual see the ticket (the support site is horrible). That is the only reason I said they should take them as they come - because hunting for the urgent ones will waste precious time.

If they have a way of tracking the urgent ones, then by all means, those go first every time.

Gwaer
04-28-2014, 11:21 AM
I assume game forge is flagging them in some way, grouping tournament bug reimbursements together and issues with actual login, then CZE can address them by importance.

Hieronymous
04-28-2014, 11:23 AM
Well, has anyone gotten a response on any ticket since Saturday morning?

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 11:26 AM
I assume game forge is flagging them in some way, grouping tournament bug reimbursements together and issues with actual login, then CZE can address them by importance.

If that is true, it explains why there has been no activity all weekend. Gameforge is not as motivated as CZE in that department.

It also completely nullifies my comment about first come first served, which is frankly a relief. I was assuming the best case scenario was to do everything in order to save time - if it changes hand the way you say, then that whole idea gets flipped.

GatticusFinch
04-28-2014, 11:30 AM
I have no experience with Gameforge other than reading the threads on here from people who did, and the general consensus was it was a festering pile to be avoided at all costs. Now, I have seen contradicting statements that (1) Gameforge is handling the tickets, or (2) Gameforge is just the front-end, and CZE is actually handling all the tickets. Which is it?

Gwaer
04-28-2014, 11:34 AM
Likely it's a bit of both. Gameforge support is probably still training on the hex support tools and CZE is having to pickup all the slack, eventually the low tier stuff like email address changes should be able to be handled by GF. In entirety. I imagine tier 3 issues will always be CZE, and tier 2 will be a mixed bag based on how close the fixes are required to actually get to game code/possessions. Having anyone other than data dragon+crew being able to add items to the game inventory for example would be bad news.

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 11:42 AM
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=34951

Confirmation on a few things by Shaq. Just updated.

Chark
04-28-2014, 05:09 PM
Hey Everyone,

The engineers have just informed me that they were able identify everyone who has played in the tournaments over the weekend when we were experiencing difficulties with them.

For each tournament that player participated in, we went ahead and granted:

1 non-expirable draft ticket
1 booster pack
5000 gold

Some of your tournaments may have finished, but in the interest of not delaying this any further, we went ahead and issued you the above comp as well.

We are working very hard to get the service stable enough to let people play in tournaments again.

Rendakor
04-28-2014, 05:11 PM
Awesome, thanks!

Xenavire
04-28-2014, 05:11 PM
Hey Everyone,

The engineers have just informed me that they were able identify everyone who has played in the tournaments over the weekend when we were experiencing difficulties with them.

For each tournament that player participated in, we went ahead and granted:

1 non-expirable draft ticket
1 booster pack
5000 gold

Some of your tournaments may have finished, but in the interest of not delaying this any further, we went ahead and issued you the above comp as well.

We are working very hard to get the service stable enough to let people play in tournaments again.

That is very generous. I assume we need to close the client to check for this?

Quasari
04-28-2014, 05:13 PM
Very generous.

I didn't play in any tournaments, but very nice to know ya'll take care of your customers:)

Svenn
04-28-2014, 06:26 PM
Hey Everyone,

The engineers have just informed me that they were able identify everyone who has played in the tournaments over the weekend when we were experiencing difficulties with them.

For each tournament that player participated in, we went ahead and granted:

1 non-expirable draft ticket
1 booster pack
5000 gold

Some of your tournaments may have finished, but in the interest of not delaying this any further, we went ahead and issued you the above comp as well.

We are working very hard to get the service stable enough to let people play in tournaments again.
Are tournaments up yet? What about people who weren't able to log in and try tournaments and are losing a weekly draft because they've been down the whole time?

Hieronymous
04-28-2014, 06:40 PM
Well, hard to complain about that. Thanks!

Looking in the client it does seem tournaments are up again but I could be wrong.

Rendakor
04-28-2014, 06:44 PM
They aren't. The queues are just visible; you can't actually join or play them.

FlyingMeatchip
04-28-2014, 06:58 PM
I was miffed it borked in the finals but they made good and probably got some good info on why things went screwy.....No response until they did the refund but hey....they did the refund.

hex_colin
04-28-2014, 07:04 PM
Are tournaments up yet? What about people who weren't able to log in and try tournaments and are losing a weekly draft because they've been down the whole time?

They're not. But no one is going to lose anything. They've said they'll compensate us for the time lost. I'm sure they'll decide on the exact mechanism (free draft token, extending the current token, extending you free draft eligibility out a week, etc.) once they know for sure when draft will be available. No point fixing it now before they know how many weeks are impacted.

GPrime
04-28-2014, 09:57 PM
No point fixing it now before they know how many weeks are impacted.

That's kind of how I've felt about this whole debacle. People panic because they don't have answers, but at the same time there's no reason to rush out a resolution when compensation is effectively pointless (with tournaments down, what good is a free draft ticket?)

The devs gave us their word that they'd make good, and they did. They've shown that they're good for it, so hopefully people practice a little more patience in the future instead of blowing things way out of proportion at the first sign of trouble.

Ogodei
04-28-2014, 11:22 PM
Hey Everyone,

The engineers have just informed me that they were able identify everyone who has played in the tournaments over the weekend when we were experiencing difficulties with them.

For each tournament that player participated in, we went ahead and granted:

1 non-expirable draft ticket
1 booster pack
5000 gold

Some of your tournaments may have finished, but in the interest of not delaying this any further, we went ahead and issued you the above comp as well.

We are working very hard to get the service stable enough to let people play in tournaments again.

Thanks for that, much appreciated. I must admit that I did not think of such a solution to the problem and thought you had to rely on the ticketing system (which was what basically worried me the combination of taking the risk in the first place and only having a questionable support system as backup)

Ogodei
04-28-2014, 11:35 PM
Are tournaments up yet? What about people who weren't able to log in and try tournaments and are losing a weekly draft because they've been down the whole time?

Ah come on now. This is beta, deal with it. (I always wanted to say that)

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 02:21 AM
Ah come on now. This is beta, deal with it. (I always wanted to say that)

Welcome, to the stubborn side. But in this case, it is true - being the number one priority, we have to twiddle our thumbs until it is done.

Can't wait!

Ali3nSan
04-29-2014, 02:30 AM
I am glad they put you guys right, but I want to roll a chest so badly lol... Feels like because I missed the short window when drafts where up I am stuck waiting... Really want some gold lol :D

PS: 5000 gold will do :P

Mahes
04-29-2014, 06:42 AM
Hey Everyone,

The engineers have just informed me that they were able identify everyone who has played in the tournaments over the weekend when we were experiencing difficulties with them.

For each tournament that player participated in, we went ahead and granted:

1 non-expirable draft ticket
1 booster pack
5000 gold

Some of your tournaments may have finished, but in the interest of not delaying this any further, we went ahead and issued you the above comp as well.

We are working very hard to get the service stable enough to let people play in tournaments again.

This was a pleasant surprise when I logged on and saw this. I am glad to see that you guys are capable of simply noting who was playing at the time and just dealing with it that way, as opposed to waiting for tickets and investigating and so on. This actually makes me "want" to test the system as there might be times when it is advantageous to do so if it crashes.

That is how you get players to want to test the system.

Thank You

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 07:19 AM
This was a pleasant surprise when I logged on and saw this. I am glad to see that you guys are capable of simply noting who was playing at the time and just dealing with it that way, as opposed to waiting for tickets and investigating and so on. This actually makes me "want" to test the system as there might be times when it is advantageous to do so if it crashes.

That is how you get players to want to test the system.

Thank You

This is exactly what I have been seeing (attitude wise) during alpha and on the forums - this is why they have earned my respect and faith. I hope that they can prove themselves, person by person, until all the doubters are placated (or completely converted :p)

But even with my expectations of what they would do, they went above and beyond, again! Outstanding.

Svenn
04-29-2014, 07:52 AM
They're not. But no one is going to lose anything. They've said they'll compensate us for the time lost. I'm sure they'll decide on the exact mechanism (free draft token, extending the current token, extending you free draft eligibility out a week, etc.) once they know for sure when draft will be available. No point fixing it now before they know how many weeks are impacted.

Ah come on now. This is beta, deal with it. (I always wanted to say that)
I'm Grand King, so if they don't compensate me I haven't lost much. I'm fine with nothing. I wouldn't mind an extra draft ticket, of course, since I would technically be a week behind people who got a chance to try while they were up and failed but that's not all that big of a deal.

For people with the 1 year drafts though, that's where it really matters.

Ogodei
04-29-2014, 08:04 AM
This from Twitter:


Q: Will Pro Player who couldn't play before removal receive 1 draft ticket if tournaments are not back up before weekly ticket expires?

A: that or we'll add on an extra week. but you'll definitely get that extra draft somehow.

https://twitter.com/HexTCG/status/460897901179195392


Q: Are our draft coupons that expire soon going to be extended? Drafts have never been up while I've been able to play.

A: yeah, we'll extend them or give extra ones once tournaments are up and we figure out what's best for the players

https://twitter.com/HexTCG/status/460938283657461760