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View Full Version : Why can't the client auto-pass when no action is even possible?



ZacPhoenix
04-27-2014, 02:54 PM
This is what I don't understand. Why can't the client automatically pass priority when there is literally no action that I can possibly take even if I wanted to? No abilities, no instants, nothing. It should be able to automatically recognise that and pass for me. It would speed things up incredibly and make it flow more.

As well as with cards that say things like "target opponent champion" when there is only one opponent champion. Why do I need to target them manually? There is no other valid target. I can see this needed in a multi-player match, but in a two-player match it's a no brainer.

Yoss
04-27-2014, 03:01 PM
Would be nice to have this as an option, but not as something that is forced upon you.

Rieper
04-27-2014, 03:05 PM
Because for tournements people do not want this, because it ruins chance of bluffing. But i think i read they working on pass all button, which has been brought up many times in alpha that people want this.

For target champion, this is because at times some those card you might wanna use on yourself. Yeah we lack those card right now, but set 1 is a more basic card set.

DanTheMeek
04-27-2014, 03:06 PM
Could they make the client auto-pass for you? Sure. In fact I hope they do add that function in the future. But SHOULD it always do it? No. Part of what makes hex such a deep and skill based game is the ability to bluff. If I'm holding nothing but a shard in my hand, but I take 10 seconds to decide whether or not to let the card you just played resolve when I've got 3 resources available and 2 saphire threshold, you've got to ask yourself, am I holding a Counter Magic and just decided I wanted to save it for something better? If the game auto passes for me cause it detects I have nothing, now you know its safe to drop that key card cause I obviously can't stop it. Bluffing when you have nothing is aslo especially important for combat tricks, often allowing a player to attack with a weak monster and not get blocked because of the mere threat of say a wild growth. That too would be lost if the game didn't evne give me the chance to hold off on passing priority, instead it becomes immediately clear I have nothing.

I will add that "targeting an OPPOSING Champion" probably could be made to auto target in 1v1, wouldn't mind if they made it do that for the future, but any card that says "target champion" should always give you the option in case you want to target yourself with a normally negative effect (maybe I need to empty my hand on purpose for some effect) or your opponent on a positive one (maybe I want him to be the one to draw 2 cards cause that will cause him to deck out?)

So again, I do hope they add in auto-detect auto-pass features in the future for casual games where I don't care about bluffing, or for when I'm short on time in a tournament, but there are reasons why by you wouldn't always want it to auto-pass for you in situations that are obvious to you, but may not be obvious to your opponent.

ZacPhoenix
04-27-2014, 03:58 PM
I know "target champion" can be used on yourself, even if its negative, that's why I was talking about "target opponent champion" of which there is only ever 1 valid target in a 1v1 match.

I get the bluffing, I do, but what if you have zero cards in your hand? There is nothing to pass up on. I'm talking about that and all other instances when something is literally incapable of occurring, and yet there are still priority stops where passing is as inconsequential as the client automatically doing it for you.

ossuary
04-27-2014, 04:06 PM
It says target opponent champion because some game formats (like raids, or 2v2) will have multiple possible opponent champions. And the game does not auto-pick for you when you have only one opponent because it would require additional programming to have different engine rules for one game type vs another. Maybe they will add that ability as a "nice to have" somewhere down the road during a polish pass, but don't expect it any time soon when gigantic chunks of the core game are still missing.

Quasari
04-27-2014, 04:09 PM
Plus maybe we'll get some Two Headed Giant format:)

Gwaer
04-27-2014, 04:20 PM
Hot keys that skip priority until X really just needs to happen. =\

incitfulmonk21
04-27-2014, 04:48 PM
To be honest I am a little surprised we made it out of alpha without the ability to auto pass and attack with all troops. I guess it is far more complicated then I think but these are 2 huge time savers.

Dont even really need a toggle just a hot key you can push to pass all and if you don't it stops normally.

Deathfog
04-27-2014, 04:49 PM
A toggle or a flat out fast mode that would bypass stuff like the post sync verify at the start on a turn, declare defenders when you have nothing valid to block with, declare attackers when you have no valid attackers, etc... would be handy if not critical to the game.

There are cases when you can quick play an attacker/defender, which would be an odd exclusion.

Another case is when you have no cards in your hand and no quick actions available on the field to use, just auto pass to the next phase.

maniza
04-27-2014, 07:48 PM
i feel that if you have no posible answer the game shud pass for you because it streamlines the games alot. examples of this situations are when you are tapped out or when you have no cards in hand. no bluffing involved there.

ossuary
04-27-2014, 09:18 PM
Not really. There are plenty of ways to generate resources even if you don't have any currently available. There are also ways to reduce cost on cards to zero, so even having zero resources doesn't necessarily mean you can't do anything. Taking away player choice is a bad idea. Giving you the OPTION to auto-skip if you really don't want to make use of it is perfectly fine.

And yeah, I still really want a button to push to mark all troops as attacking (though it shouldn't confirm the attack, it should just mark them all to attack to save time, then let you unmark any of them before you confirm the attack). Of course, they still need to fix the fact that the client tends to blows the hell up if you try to attack with more than about 50 things at a time. That's important too. ;)

joseph5185
04-27-2014, 09:26 PM
I'm sure something is in the works. Crazy thought, what if there wasn't a button at all and used some other form of interaction? That could be awesome, if implemented properly of course.

Furthermore, it would be nice to simply hover over cards and have options/abilities present. Do you agree? I guess I could see it as annoying if you accidentally kept hovering over. But you know what, that's what customization and options are for ... right?

LunaPark
05-01-2014, 09:02 AM
i've only played 2 tournaments in alpha and 3 games vs AI. At the moment im terribly slow, i lost a draft due to time. The last game i played with AI i fiddled with the end stops but they didnt seem to work.

I play alot of MTGO and each time i cast a spell it auto resolves my spells unless i press ctrl, i really hope hex implements this. F8 skips everything when u can't activate anything and have no mana available.

When the tourneys come back im worried i will lose my prizes due to time.

hex_colin
05-01-2014, 09:10 AM
Strategy mainly. That, and you have the option to customize the stops.

Also, we've had confirmation that the additional hotkeys are coming.

However, lack of resources does not necessarily mean lack of cards to play. Maybe not in Set 1, but who know what the future holds.

cferejohn
05-01-2014, 09:13 AM
Yeah, giving you priority after your own spell is a little odd - I don't think there are any spells or abilities in Hex where it really matters - it would be something like "duplicate target action you control currently in the chain" - I don't recall seeing that.

Otoh, in MTGO that option is kind of hidden, and I'm nearly certain that Meletis Charlatan or similar has been screwed up by frillions of players (and often they don't even know why), so I'd err on the side of too many stops and then eventually add some hot keys to "pass to end of turn", "pass until opponent action" or what have you.

Xenavire
05-01-2014, 09:27 AM
Strategy mainly. That, and you have the option to customize the stops.

Also, we've had confirmation that the additional hotkeys are coming.

However, lack of resources does not necessarily mean lack of cards to play. Maybe not in Set 1, but who know what the future holds.

Especially with Shrine of Prosperity - a player could easily forget about a murder revealed about 6 turns ago.

ossuary
05-01-2014, 09:39 AM
Yeah, giving you priority after your own spell is a little odd - I don't think there are any spells or abilities in Hex where it really matters - it would be something like "duplicate target action you control currently in the chain" - I don't recall seeing that.

Pro (Johnny) Tip: Cast Plan C, then interrupt your own casting of Plan C with Comet Strike. You blow up the whole board on both sides of the table (and both players' hands), then put a buttload of war bots on the empty board after the Strike resolves. Unless your opponent topdecks an Extinction, you win. :)