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teweller
04-29-2014, 02:51 PM
So im still trying to wrap my head around the fact that this game is in Beta but none of their PvE content is available...I understand the PvP attraction to this game but that is not what caught my eye and im sure i am not the only one...does anyone have any idea on an ETA of when it will be put into Beta?

Daer
04-29-2014, 02:53 PM
Welcome to the forums.

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 02:56 PM
So im still trying to wrap my head around the fact that this game is in Beta but none of their PvE content is available...I understand the PvP attraction to this game but that is not what caught my eye and im sure i am not the only one...does anyone have any idea on an ETA of when it will be put into Beta?

The official word, when last we heard, was 'in open beta'. This has been a known fact for a long time, that PvE wouldn't arrive until much later, and CZE has assured us that they are pushing it up, rather than holding it for release.

So the disappointment is understandable, but it shouldn't be too long now. (Open beta has been estimated to be a month away.)

DuroNL
04-29-2014, 02:57 PM
As far as i know PvE is projected to launch with Open Beta, the closed beta is PVP only to test server loads mostly and the features like AH and trade that will becoming in Closed beta shortly...

and welcome to forums

Xenavier beat me to it :P

Perfectblue
04-29-2014, 02:57 PM
So the disappointment is understandable, but it shouldn't be too long now. (Open beta has been estimated to be a month away.)

Do you happen to have a source for that? Not saying I don't believe you I would just like to read more.

GatticusFinch
04-29-2014, 02:57 PM
So im still trying to wrap my head around the fact that this game is in Beta but none of their PvE content is available...I understand the PvP attraction to this game but that is not what caught my eye and im sure i am not the only one...does anyone have any idea on an ETA of when it will be put into Beta?

Nope. They have not said, and they have not given out ETAs for other things that are either missing or down at the moment, so I would not expect one for this either.

DuroNL
04-29-2014, 03:00 PM
HexRex has been talking in game about projected features in regards to time frames...

AH/Trade roughly a month from now... and PvE will be part of Open Beta, not in Closed...

not sure if there is any post anywhere by CZE on it

GrinningBuddha
04-29-2014, 03:00 PM
teweller, PvE content is something we're mostly all looking forward to, you're not alone. CZE's focus up to now has been to get the core game mechanics solidified and to get the real-money systems functioning. This doesn't mean they haven't been working on PvE and if you read Cory Jones' latest blog post (http://coryhudsonjones.tumblr.com/post/83645967847/hex-beta-is-almost-here), you'll see what the plans are for PvE content while the game is in beta. Hang in there!

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 03:03 PM
Do you happen to have a source for that? Not saying I don't believe you I would just like to read more.

Most of the discussions happened in client, so I can't think of any links I could provide. But I want to stress that they have been intentionally vague, and for good reason. They want these things to happen in a specific order and a specific time, but that doesn't always work.

GatticusFinch
04-29-2014, 03:04 PM
Make sure you take all these dates that have been given out with a huge grain of salt. Things have a tendency to get delayed and the recent track record with hitting these ETAs has not been good.

Perfectblue
04-29-2014, 03:06 PM
Make sure you take all these dates that have been given out with a huge grain of salt. Things have a tendency to get delayed and the recent track record with hitting these ETAs has not been good.

Much better at hitting ETAs than MtGO for certain.

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 03:10 PM
Make sure you take all these dates that have been given out with a huge grain of salt. Things have a tendency to get delayed and the recent track record with hitting these ETAs has not been good.

I don't really know any company that hits their ETA's when it comes to game development. And those that do, either have buggy content, or large amounts of cut content - I have never heard of a game not having one or the other when hitting a milestone.

This isn't just MMO's either. Nor is it the start of an argument, I would be happy to be proven wrong here - I could use some reading material.

GatticusFinch
04-29-2014, 03:11 PM
Much better at hitting ETAs than MtGO for certain.

I haven't played MtGO in a long time. Did they ever get a new client?

Hex was supposed to be fully launched in October of last year, and we're in closed beta in May with less than half the content enabled. Maybe I'm just being cynical, but I think the "open beta in one month" flew out the window when the closed beta stability had more problems than the final alpha.

Perfectblue
04-29-2014, 03:13 PM
I haven't played MtGO in a long time. Did they ever get a new client?


Yes they did get a new client, but its still pretty terrible.

Vorpal
04-29-2014, 03:23 PM
I am looking forward to pve most of all.

However I don't expect to see it for 3 months.

deathandtexas
04-29-2014, 03:27 PM
I'm starting to think Xenavire is on CZE's payroll...

bojanglesz
04-29-2014, 03:33 PM
I'm starting to think Xenavire is on CZE's payroll...

"CZE makes Blizzard look like scrubs" - Xenavire

Mike411
04-29-2014, 03:34 PM
(Open beta has been estimated to be a month away.)

I've seen an optimistic player estimation like that, but nothing from CZE.

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 03:38 PM
I'm starting to think Xenavire is on CZE's payroll...

I wish. Then I would have more money to spend on my Hex addiction. :p


"CZE makes Blizzard look like scrubs" - Xenavire

I stand by that assertion. I have been dissatisfied by blizzard for an extended period of time, as a paying customer, and recent activity has done nothing but reinforce my opinion of them.


I've seen an optimistic player estimation like that, but nothing from CZE.

As I said, that was said within the client as a rough estimate. There is no solid date or ETA.

GrinningBuddha
04-29-2014, 03:45 PM
Open beta by the end of May seems like the most optimistic estimate given what needs to be added yet. The Auction House alone could take a month of testing to work the kinks out of, let alone player trading and guild support. If I had to pick a date, I'd say early to mid-July would be more reasonable.

Gwaer
04-29-2014, 03:51 PM
I'd not expect PVE for quite a while, personally. I'd say no earlier than 3 months. But that's a complete guess. I wasn't expecting it until after release until a couple days ago. So it is definitely moving up.

GatticusFinch
04-29-2014, 03:56 PM
Open beta by the end of May seems like the most optimistic estimate given what needs to be added yet. The Auction House alone could take a month of testing to work the kinks out of, let alone player trading and guild support. If I had to pick a date, I'd say early to mid-July would be more reasonable.

I'd add to the auction house / trading testing that there is literally zero chance of me testing either when we are in no-wipe territory. Who in their right mind would risk their product testing the system? That is going to drag out the time it takes to test.

mach
04-29-2014, 03:56 PM
I think one thing we can look for as a sign that PvE is near is the real AI engine.

It's essential that this is done for PvE to work, but it's something which would also be useful on the PvP side, since AI games are available in the current client. It's also something which they would likely want to push early to the live servers so they could get testing data.

Gwaer
04-29-2014, 03:57 PM
I'd add to the auction house / trading testing that there is literally zero chance of me testing either when we are in no-wipe territory. Who in their right mind would risk their product testing the system? That is going to drag out the time it takes to test.

I will, as accommodating as CZE has been when something goes wrong, why would anyone hesitate?

mach
04-29-2014, 04:00 PM
I will, as accommodating as CZE has been when something goes wrong, why would anyone hesitate?

Yea, losing something isn't really a problem here. The big potential problem is actually the opposite, if a bug causes items to get duped forcing CZE to make hard decisions about rollbacks.

Gwaer
04-29-2014, 04:02 PM
That's very true mach, That is indeed what I am worried about. However, they say they are tracking cards individually and can make very precise rollbacks when needed, that likely should be tested as well.

GatticusFinch
04-29-2014, 04:04 PM
I will, as accommodating as CZE has been when something goes wrong, why would anyone hesitate?

AFAIK, the only accommodation CZE has given when something has gone wrong is the blanket compensation given to everyone because of the tournament. That is relatively easy to do. Finding the needle in the haystack of auction house and trading transactions require individual care for each problem and are not going to be anywhere near as easy to resolve.

I'm simply not willing to risk my time (submitting tickets, waiting for responses, dealing with Gameforge) or my money to test it.

Gwaer
04-29-2014, 04:08 PM
More power to you, A lot of us are actually interested in beta testing, and are actively looking for bugs. From the activity in the bug report forums, I'd say quite a lot of us. We'll handle it for you. Have no fear.

mach
04-29-2014, 04:18 PM
That's very true mach, That is indeed what I am worried about. However, they say they are tracking cards individually and can make very precise rollbacks when needed, that likely should be tested as well.

It's not that simple. Suppose I find a dupe method and dupe 500 Angel of Dawn (current market price 1000 plat).

I then sell them on the AH for 500 plat. That's a big discount, so they sell quickly. Some of the buyers then resell them at 600 plat (all my cheap ones have sold, so the price goes back up a bit). Others trade them to friends for some other cards. Meanwhile, I use the profits to buy a bunch of stuff that I need. I'm rich now, so I don't mind paying above market value when there isn't a good deal currently on the AH.

How do you handle this? I'm the only one who's done something wrong here. This is exactly the kind of scenario where a mass rollback is the best option.

knightofeffect
04-29-2014, 04:23 PM
Yea, that is a scenario when a mass rollback would be ideal. It is paramount that any such bugs are discovered before 3rd party sales gain any real traction. Mass rollbacks or even several targeted rollbacks would be highly frowned upon at that point, and even though CZE doesn't directly support 3rd party sales(which we all know are pretty important for the health of the game), CZE would still get a pretty large portion of the blame.

sukebe
04-29-2014, 04:25 PM
I will gladly help them test out the AH and peer to peer trading. They have promised to correct any problems that arise from bugs and flawed systems.

Heck, I will even volunteer to have my account rolled back to a certain point as that is something that needs testing as well. Though for this I would want to get a heads up that it is coming :-)

CZE has given me no reason to doubt that they will follow on their promise that we will loose nothing in this closed beta. I will follow through on my part as a beta tester and help them test their beta.

bojanglesz
04-29-2014, 04:26 PM
I will gladly help them test out the AH and peer to peer trading. They have promised to correct any problems that arise from bugs and flawed systems.

Heck, I will even volunteer to have my account rolled back to a certain point as that is something that needs testing as well. Though for this I would want to get a heads up that it is coming :-)

CZE has given me no reason to doubt that they will follow on their promise that we will loose nothing in this closed beta. I will follow through on my part as a beta tester and help them test their beta.

F that

Gwaer
04-29-2014, 04:34 PM
Actually Mach that example almost exactly was discussed during the alpha, and supposedly they have the ability to track every single one of those 500 angels, and reverse every transaction they were involved in. So everyone ends up with exactly what they started with before it happened. I'm very skeptical that they can actually do that, but If they can it is fantastic, even if it sucks that people now only have the plat they started with and no angels, it's the best possible scenario for the market as a whole.

Guap
04-29-2014, 04:35 PM
Dude... The pvp is not availible either in case you haven't noticed. There's virtually nothing to do in game aside from play 1v1 matches against Ai or other players. It sucks, but it is what it is.

mach
04-29-2014, 04:42 PM
Actually Mach that example almost exactly was discussed during the alpha, and supposedly they have the ability to track every single one of those 500 angels, and reverse every transaction they were involved in. So everyone ends up with exactly what they started with before it happened. I'm very skeptical that they can actually do that, but If they can it is fantastic, even if it sucks that people now only have the plat they started with and no angels, it's the best possible scenario for the market as a whole.

It's not necessarily just a technical issue. If you just reverse all the transactions they were involved in, you still run into problems. For example, because you got a cheap playset of Angels you bought the rest of a deck as well. Does that get reversed too? You might get to the point that you're reversing so much you might as well just do the full rollback.

You also have the problem of time. They obviously have to bring the servers down until the issue is fixed and the transactions are reversed. Working out just which transactions to reverse might mean the servers are down for days.

sukebe
04-29-2014, 04:50 PM
F that

How constructive of you...

The fact is, this is a closed beta, and we are beta testers. If we do not help them find bugs then those bugs will remain for the release. If you do not want to do your part that is fine, but do not try to paint those who are doing their part in a bad light.

I want the game to be as good as it can be, and I am willing to risk my time (no money is at risk, as they will fix any problems that arise) to help make that happen.

GatticusFinch
04-29-2014, 05:27 PM
How constructive of you...

The fact is, this is a closed beta, and we are beta testers. If we do not help them find bugs then those bugs will remain for the release. If you do not want to do your part that is fine, but do not try to paint those who are doing their part in a bad light.

I want the game to be as good as it can be, and I am willing to risk my time (no money is at risk, as they will fix any problems that arise) to help make that happen.

Except it never had to be this way. Money never had to be on the line at this point and I am struggling to come up with examples of other games where real money was on the line during a feature-incomplete beta.

That's what I want to see from CZE--an explanation of why we jumped from a closed alpha immediately into a monetized beta with no stop in between. There is no reason to be testing these things with actual money on the line.

hex_colin
04-29-2014, 05:32 PM
Except it never had to be this way. Money never had to be on the line at this point and I am struggling to come up with examples of other games where real money was on the line during a feature-incomplete beta.

That's what I want to see from CZE--an explanation of why we jumped from a closed alpha immediately into a monetized beta with no stop in between. There is no reason to be testing these things with actual money on the line.

You don't have to spend any money though. I must have missed the dudes CZE sent to my house to force me to play/spend money. ;) And, if you do spend money that gets "lost" somehow CZE has made it pretty clear that you'd be compensated. So, zero real risk.

Quasari
04-29-2014, 05:32 PM
Except it never had to be this way. Money never had to be on the line at this point and I am struggling to come up with examples of other games where real money was on the line during a feature-incomplete beta.
War Z would probably be the biggest example and it was far more insidious.

Gwaer
04-29-2014, 05:35 PM
guildwars 2... Hearthstone... Scrolls... Actually every game I've ever beta tested for that had a plan for microtransactions at launch has had the cash shop open while being feature incomplete...

The odd thing about all those beta's and this one, is that Hex is actually reimbursing you for money lost due to bugs, and none of those did.

GatticusFinch
04-29-2014, 05:36 PM
War Z would probably be the biggest example and it was far more insidious.

Yeah, that's not a good example to use to defend CZE doing it.

Quasari
04-29-2014, 06:09 PM
The only other ones I can think of off the top of my head are Minecraft and Starbound, which were/are buy in betas. However it is common practice for Indie games to have monetized or buy in betas. I can't think of any with microtransactions yet(other than other card games...but don't really want to bring them in)

knightofeffect
04-29-2014, 06:24 PM
How constructive of you...

The fact is, this is a closed beta, and we are beta testers. If we do not help them find bugs then those bugs will remain for the release. If you do not want to do your part that is fine, but do not try to paint those who are doing their part in a bad light.

I want the game to be as good as it can be, and I am willing to risk my time (no money is at risk, as they will fix any problems that arise) to help make that happen.

Hell, I only rolled 3 primals with 245 packs, I'd be completely down for a full wipe =P.

But seriously, if there is any doubt that CZE will do above and beyond to (at least) fully reimburse someone for any currency or product launch, that can only be attributed to not knowing CZE very well.

If there is one thing that Cory is the most adamant about, that is always making the best decision for the player. Cory is the creative lead for this game, but he is also a true hardcore TCG fan and will only make a decision that he would be happy to hear as a player. This is not a game that is being made by some corporation looking to make money, this is a passion project from a small team that has had to grow out of necessity (and pick up a partner or two along the way).

Fortunately, Cory has repeatedly stated that all quality and support decisions rest with him in the end. He has proven time and again there is nowhere else I'd want it to.

deathandtexas
04-29-2014, 06:40 PM
"CZE makes Blizzard look like scrubs" - Xenavire

Haha... this explains a lot.

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 06:47 PM
Haha... this explains a lot.

If you have an issue with me, speak to me directly. Thanks.

bizznach
04-29-2014, 07:04 PM
mmodoc is still in beta and selling cards.
or at least it was a few months ago.

deathandtexas
04-29-2014, 07:05 PM
If you have an issue with me, speak to me directly. Thanks.

Hi.

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 07:11 PM
Hi.

Do you have a problem with me, or something I have said? If so, what, and why?

knightofeffect
04-29-2014, 07:17 PM
Xen, I think the implication is that he has disagreed with a lot of the things you have said and has wondered to himself, "why does he say these things?". Then with that post of yours, he feels he can know understand that all of your basis for reasoning is flawed by extrapolating on that opinion of yours that he feels is ludicrously false.

I suggest leaving the slight where it lies and moving on to happier times. =) <3

bizznach
04-29-2014, 07:18 PM
also infinity wars is still in beta and supposedly has a shop but servers are down right now,and i haven't played in a few months...also yes gw2 had a shop while in beta.
a simple search on the goog would have told you all this.

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 07:23 PM
Xen, I think the implication is that he has disagreed with a lot of the things you have said and has wondered to himself, "why does he say these things?". Then with that post of yours, he feels he can know understand that all of your basis for reasoning is flawed by extrapolating on that opinion of yours that he feels is ludicrously false.

I suggest leaving the slight where it lies and moving on to happier times. =) <3

Probably a good idea, but if the issue is not with me and my intense dissatisfaction for the recent state of Blizzard and their general attitude towards their consumers, then I would like to clear the air. If it is about me considering Blizzards dev team to be little more than trained chimp in recent years, then I can see how someone would be upset by that.

But I lost faith in Blizzard. Then I found CZE and suddenly I had a company I could trust. The comparison I made is pretty accurate from my point of view.

DreamPuppet
04-29-2014, 07:40 PM
I dont get people talking about open beta in less than a month of closed beta. Has any game ever done that before? Games are in beta for monthS, some for a year +.

I can only cringe at the thought of anybody that has nothing invested in Hex like all us backers do getting a hold of it now. It would get ripped to shreds :(

oncewasblind
04-29-2014, 07:50 PM
Probably a good idea, but if the issue is not with me and my intense dissatisfaction for the recent state of Blizzard and their general attitude towards their consumers, then I would like to clear the air. If it is about me considering Blizzards dev team to be little more than trained chimp in recent years, then I can see how someone would be upset by that.

But I lost faith in Blizzard. Then I found CZE and suddenly I had a company I could trust. The comparison I made is pretty accurate from my point of view.

From mine as well.

Just check the Diablo 3 forums and you'll see we're not alone. I think the big difference is that Blizzard just doesn't care about their product anymore. They design their games to make money, and any features that don't provide a tangible ROI don't even get considered.

Liokae
04-29-2014, 07:55 PM
Just a quick note on anyone estimating release dates for features:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_fallacy

Take your worst case guess, triple it, and you may be accurate.

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 07:58 PM
Just a quick note on anyone estimating release dates for features:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_fallacy

Take your worst case guess, triple it, and you may be accurate.

Considering CZE beat my best case scenario for beta by over a month, that I predicted ages ago, I think that doesn't apply well here.

Or I am suddenly a massive pessimist rather than a realist. :D

sukebe
04-29-2014, 08:34 PM
I do not agree that the Hex game is less than 50% complete and should therefore not be charging money in the shop.

First, let be clear about this. The only part of Hex that will actually REQUIRE the shop is the pvp portion of the game. The pve portion of the game will not require any purchases whatsoever (they have stated this many times).

Second, The only thing we are missing from the pvp experience right now is tournaments and trading/ah. Once these are up we will have all of the features promised us for early on in Hex. More will be added of course, things like Large Scale Tournaments, player run leagues, the tournament from the VIP subscription (which I am only guessing will not work this month) etc. However, besides the VIP tournament (which may or may not work) none of that was promised to be here during beta.

Finally, I am also very excited to see the PVE side of this game, however, that side of the game will depend heavily on the PVP side working as intended. There is also a considerably larger amount of work needed for the PVE side of the game than it will likely take to get PVP working. I am no expert but I imagine coding AI at various difficulties, creating interactive environments, classes that feel unique, and a story that is at least reasonably interesting takes a lot more time than getting servers stable, making sure the rules of the game are properly coded, and insuring that they have the ability to earn money. I think we can all agree that the last 3 things I mentioned are rather important to the entire process though don't you think?

With all of the above in mind, how can you say they are charging for something that is incomplete? The PVP side of the game is the only thing that takes real money and requires the store. Once tournaments work again and we have an AH the entire PVP side of the game will be available to us. As far as I am concerned, the 50% of the game that is PVE should not be counted when considering the store being brought online as it is (for the most part) unrelated to it.

TL DR: once tournaments are fixed and the AH/trading is added we will have all of pvp functioning. PVP is the only part of the game that should be considered when discussing the store.

Arbiter
04-30-2014, 12:01 AM
Except it never had to be this way. Money never had to be on the line at this point and I am struggling to come up with examples of other games where real money was on the line during a feature-incomplete beta.

That's what I want to see from CZE--an explanation of why we jumped from a closed alpha immediately into a monetized beta with no stop in between. There is no reason to be testing these things with actual money on the line.

Hearthstone let players spend money in Beta on Arena entries and warned them it was at the user's risk. Neverwinter allowed people to spend money from open beta, and had to do a three day rollback at one point due to an AH exploit (google Neverwinter caturday exploit if you want to know more). The norm now for games with cash shops is for the shop to be there in beta. It all needs to be tested.

Reifu
04-30-2014, 12:14 AM
After reading through this thread (and several others) all I want to do is scream at the screen.

Seriously people, unlike many other games you may have had beta-access to, you have now been given the chance to enter at a much, much earlier time than before.

If you don't like the state it is in, just go away for a few months and then come back. You will be much happier for it.

I also happen to think they pushed the closed monetized beta too fast. But it is not my decision, and the decision is already made. So either accept it or go away until the game is in a state you like. It really is that simple. All you are doing right now is hanging around spreading negativity and ruining the forums for everyone else.

AstaSyneri
04-30-2014, 12:52 AM
Reifu nicely summarized it. It really pays to take step back every once in a while. Just play some of the other awesome games out there. Conquer the world in Europa Universalis, for example. I assure you that's going to be a challenge and take quite some time. Then come back and you'll see that Hex will have greatly improved - in the sense of having been expanded with additional features.

When you take a step back and look at the big picture, you'll see a great card game that is already very much playable both against friends and surprisingly against the noob AI. The bones are there, and they are very strong.

I'd be much more concerned, if the game design itself was so crappy that I lost interest. But Hex offers a decent interface already, you can build decks rather quickly, you have a huge amount of different decks you can build and are fun to play. That they already done very much alright. The rest will come in due time. I'll be here for it.