PDA

View Full Version : Should we just get a wipe/rollback and start fresh?



Cotton
04-29-2014, 07:38 PM
With all the craziness going on, would you be for or against an account wipe/rollback? Wipe the slate clean and give everyone there original rewards back?
Why or why not? Would it even be possible?

I'd be against since I've got a very nice collection built up so far. Although I wouldn't mind cracking a whole heap of packs again.

Xenavire
04-29-2014, 07:42 PM
Against. I don't see the need - no accounts have been compromised, and nothing of value has been lost (except in extremely rare cases which can.be dealt with by a support ticket.)

I have enjoyed opening my real packs. I like that I have a collection.

Grumph
04-29-2014, 07:44 PM
I wouldn't be against it, but i feel like i got the short straw on my primal packs(2 from 310) so I am biased. Although, they could turn tournaments back on and get some probably needed test data before doing the theoretical wipe.

styk182
04-29-2014, 07:48 PM
Bold strategy Cotton... let's see if it pays off for them.

Sorry, couldn't resist :p

Seriously though, I think at this point it is not even close to necessary. They've already compensated for the tournaments and that was the only thing that I know of that really affected anyone's collection.

Pezzle
04-29-2014, 07:50 PM
Rollback, but it will never happen. Easier to just move on and deny or ignore.

Gorgol
04-29-2014, 07:54 PM
Why do people want a rollback? What was lost?

GatticusFinch
04-29-2014, 08:06 PM
Why do people want a rollback? What was lost?

Packs opening with duplicates, games freezing during tournaments, drafts failing to launch deck creation.

hex_colin
04-29-2014, 08:10 PM
Packs opening with duplicates, games freezing during tournaments, drafts failing to launch deck creation.

All of which CZE is more than happy to compensate you for. I wish I'd been in more failed drafts - gimme Gold! ;)

I see this thread playing out as follows:

if (I feel like I got enough Primal packs)
no reset;
else
reset;

;)

Mike411
04-29-2014, 08:13 PM
I would be okay with it but there's no reason for them to do it now considering their position of only doing for an emergency.

Rendakor
04-29-2014, 08:14 PM
Packs opening with duplicates, games freezing during tournaments, drafts failing to launch deck creation.
They've already compensated everyone for all draft and tournament issues, and the occasional uncommon duplicate in packs is not a big enough deal for a rollback.

Gorgol
04-29-2014, 08:15 PM
They've already compensated everyone for all draft and tournament issues, and the occasional uncommon duplicate in packs is not a big enough deal for a rollback.

/thread

Thrawn
04-29-2014, 08:21 PM
They've already compensated everyone for all draft and tournament issues, and the occasional uncommon duplicate in packs is not a big enough deal for a rollback.

I'm surprised an uncommon duplicate is even worth making a post about. Who cares?

If CZE did a rollback now the post mine as well read "Hey, we don't have a clue what we're going and you probably shouldn't have much faith in our ability to keep your cards valuable and maintain the economy."

It would crush many player's trust of CZE if they did a wipe/rollback for any reason at all after how much they stated no more rollbacks would ever happen.

Redbeastmage
04-29-2014, 08:23 PM
All of which CZE is more than happy to compensate you for. I wish I'd been in more failed drafts - gimme Gold! ;)

I see this thread playing out as follows:

if (I feel like I got enough Primal packs)
no reset;
else
reset;

;)

Think this really nails it. No rollbacks needed, nothing that bad happened.

Gwaer
04-29-2014, 08:24 PM
I'm surprised an uncommon duplicate is even making a post about. Who cares?

If CZE did a rollback now the post mine as well read "Hey, we don't have a clue what we're going and you probably shouldn't have much faith in our ability to keep your cards valuable and maintain the economy."

It would crush many player's trust of CZE if they did a wipe/rollback for any reason at all after how much they stated no more rollbacks would ever happen.

Just to head-off a gamebreaking bug that actually requires a rollback, I'd just like to say they did leave open the possibility that if something truly terrible happened, they may have to.

Also, I didn't get enough primals, so I'm totally okay with one. ;)

nicosharp
04-29-2014, 08:27 PM
Also, I didn't get enough primals, so I'm totally okay with one. ;)

^This, please rollback, I don't think 0.4% chance is gonna happen to me twice

Grumph
04-29-2014, 08:28 PM
Short of a catastrophic event with their database a rollback is not going to happen. I wouldn't mind if they did do a roll back, but I am sure a great many would. Even though I didn't get quiet as many primals as I would have liked I am happy to have a collection started and eagerly anticipating the tournaments re-opening.

sukebe
04-29-2014, 08:41 PM
I am against a rollback at this time. I just do not think anything that has happened warrants it. CZE promised that there would be no rollback and so far they have always kept their word to the best of their abilities. The only reason to do a rollback now would be if something truly catastrophic occurred that could not be fixed in any other way.

Thankfully, nothing even remotely close to that has happened so far.

YourOpponent
04-29-2014, 09:46 PM
I am for a rollback, but only because my win record on Beta is tarnished! Past that though I don't see a large enough of a reason for a rollback to be necessary....sure I didn't get as much primals as some other kings, but hey that's life...that and I'd just prefer CZE focusing their time and efforts in going forward instead of doing a "Return to the past now." Because face it...if I learned anything from watching Code Lyoko it is doing that makes Xana stronger each time...only in this case doing a rollback wouldn't be making Xana stronger, but making people more dependent on doing a "Return to the past now" to get out of inconveniences that really didn't need it in the first place.

frychikn
04-29-2014, 09:52 PM
personally i wouldnt mind a wipe. i have a lot of good legendaries actually, but i been opening packs out of sheer boredom when the main purpose for them was to draft. its whatever though.. i think my collection is pretty damn good for 37 packs

DanTheMeek
04-29-2014, 09:58 PM
I'm indifferent because I got what I believe was an average number of primals, so I could get better if they rolled back or I could get worse. But in all honesty, while I'd be lying if I didn't admit that the beta launch has been quite an epic failure, as has already been stated, nothing I'm aware of has truly been roll back worthy. People who ignored the chat telling them not to enter tournaments because they were bugged have been(or will be) properly rewarded (seriously, I was 7/8 in a draft but backed out because I saw in chat that tournaments were having issues, cost myself an extra draft ticket, pack, and gold -_- what was I thinking), people who continued to enter tournaments even after they had them bug out on them so they knew what they were getting into have been repeatedly rewarded (...why would you do that unless you were hoping to abuse CZE's generosity and felt confident they'd pay you back plus more...), if anything I think the community as a whole as come out in the + here, not me personally but any who entered tournaments are being rewarded quite handsomely. Any who didn't enter tournaments are exactly where they'd be if they rolled back, give or take a few primals and the chance to re-open packs.

The only thing I really missed out on and would enjoy to get back from a roll back was the ability to enjoy the pack opening experience since every other pack I opened glitched out and I had to guess at what I'd actually pulled from looking through the card manager. That was a let down to be sure, but certainly not roll back worthy.

Malicus
04-29-2014, 10:37 PM
I'm happy either way - I got a reasonable number of primals so no concern there but I did open a bunch of them and I sometimes enjoy the opening more than the having so getting to do that again would suit me just fine.

Rapkannibale
04-29-2014, 11:14 PM
Nope. Not necessary at all. People that played bugged tournaments were already compensated and the weekly draft tickets will either be extended or we will get an extra ticket so no need to roll back. Plus I would miss my collection :)

Gwaer
04-29-2014, 11:17 PM
they were already extended.

Yoss
04-29-2014, 11:19 PM
I wouldn't mind a rollback, but I'm also fine without one. I haven't been compromised in any way that I'm aware of.

Reifu
04-29-2014, 11:24 PM
Really?

...Really?

People actually think that is an option? When asolutely nothing has been lost?

I am starting to think that competitors are trolling the forum stirring people up over nothing.

A pro tip for everyone, if you can't stand the thought of the beta being a beta, please go away until launch. You will make both yourself and everyone else much happier. Really.

joseph5185
04-29-2014, 11:30 PM
Yea, needless to say, it's not going to happen.

I think people are just bored for the most part since tournaments are currently down and will create/reply to anything lol

sukebe
04-29-2014, 11:35 PM
Yea, needless to say, it's not going to happen.

I think people are just bored for the most part since tournaments are currently down and will create/reply to anything lol

lol, I am guilty of that. I assure everyone that once drafts are working again I will be bugging people with my long posts far less often in these forums :-)

Zomnivore
04-30-2014, 12:56 AM
How do you even know you weren't supposed to get duplicate uncommons, and how would you find out after the fact/how would you even write the ticket?

If duplicates in packs was a bug, then I think people aught to at the very least receive some sort of compensation. Pack bugs are serious. Even the ones that favor the individual, can hurt the general econ...

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 01:01 AM
Adding compensation for a non-bug like that will hurt the economy a lot more.

Reifu
04-30-2014, 01:06 AM
If duplicates in packs was a bug, then I think people aught to at the very least receive some sort of compensation. Pack bugs are serious. Even the ones that favor the individual, can hurt the general econ...
Getting a duplicate of an uncommon is not serious in any way. If it is still random it doesn't matter, over 1,000,000 boosters you will still have a pretty even spread. Just because it is random a little bit differently than what they want doesn't mean it needs to be compensated. If you had gotten a common instead of an uncommon, that would have been a serious issue.

Do people even know that in MTG's early days you sometimes could get a land instead of another card? Even instead of a rare! Do you think they compensated anyone for that? Hardly. (source: http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Alpha)

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 01:07 AM
That wasn't a print error, in alpha and beta packs were completely randomized, no guaranteed slots of any kind, you could buy a starter deck with 5 black lotuses in it, or all lands =/

Reifu
04-30-2014, 01:13 AM
That wasn't a print error, in alpha and beta packs were completely randomized, no guaranteed slots of any kind, you could buy a starter deck with 5 black lotuses in it, or all lands =/
Could you please give me a source of that? Because I am pretty sure that is not how it was. The source I linked pretty clearly specified: "Due to the printing process, it is possible to get land cards in a rare, uncommon, or common card slot." Which is what I remember from those days as well, even though I only started playing in Revised. I have seen openings of older packs though and the common/uncommon/rare slots were in place, just that they could be replaced with a land if you were unlucky.

Totally off-topic now though...

hwtan13
04-30-2014, 01:20 AM
Of the 200 pack i open i got like 2 pack with duplicate uncommon but i seriously don't see anything wrong with it.

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 01:22 AM
http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3268941

The printing "process" as it calls it in your link was just the way those original boxes were done.

Reifu
04-30-2014, 01:35 AM
http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3268941

The printing "process" as it calls it in your link was just the way those original boxes were done.
I guess we just interpret things differently. All the evidence I have ever found points to the 12 common/3 uncommon/1 rare always being in place, but yes there have been some major misshaps where there are some godpacks and some dudpacks along the way. All the openings I have seen verify this. You can even check out some on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yZUFuUstbI

During Ice Age I got some cards with messed up colors, and you could also see parts of Vampire (then Jyhad) cards printed on top of them. I also got a few green cards from Ice Age that were missprinted and had a blue color instead.

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 01:40 AM
I have 2 whole cases of jyhad still unopened, they valuable yet?

Also, those are beta booster packs, I'm talking about starter decks.
http://www.trollandtoad.com/p80116.html

Reifu
04-30-2014, 01:44 AM
Extremely!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sealed-Unopened-Booster-Box-36-Packs-Jyhad-/151260497507

...or not :p

bizznach
04-30-2014, 01:57 AM
god i love vampire(vtes) still my favorite game to date.

Poetic
04-30-2014, 02:58 AM
Can't believe people are hoping for rollbacks to try at getting better cards ha. I opened quite a few packs, could have done much better, and I'd be against it. Doubt they'd ever do it though.

Zzasikar
04-30-2014, 03:04 AM
Considering there are still people out there who redeemed 30 booster pack codes from the Guild Master tier and got the Grand King tier as a wrongful reward for each one and have not had their boosters (among all the other goodies) removed according to a number of, admittedly very honest, reports including this thread (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=34929), I would really like to see a rollback.

This bug alone justifies it in my book since that is potentially God-knows-how-many-thousands of extra boosters among other things thrown into the mix that shouldn't be there (as if the set 1 economy wasn't going to be flooded enough!); not to mention that it is a bit of the kick in the balls for the people who put their faith and their cash into supporting the Kickstarter campaign. But then again, maybe I'm just jelly that I didn't get to do it too.

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 03:07 AM
That's actually pretty legit, I forgot about that bug.

still probably not worth a global rollback, targeted ones that used those codes, certainly.

Reifu
04-30-2014, 03:09 AM
Considering there are still people out there who redeemed 30 booster pack codes from the Guild Master tier and got the Grand King tier as a wrongful reward for each one and have not had their boosters (among all the other goodies) removed according to a number of, admittedly very honest, reports including this thread (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=34929), I would really like to see a rollback.

This bug alone justifies it in my book since that is potentially God-knows-how-many-thousands of extra boosters among other things thrown into the mix that shouldn't be there (as if the set 1 economy wasn't going to be flooded enough!); not to mention that it is a bit of the kick in the balls for the people who put their faith and their cash into supporting the Kickstarter campaign. But then again, maybe I'm just jelly I didn't get to do it too.
Why would they rollback everything when they can just fix those isolated few incidents? Do people really think that there is nothing they can do about it except do a complete wipe? Even now that we can't even trade?

hammer
04-30-2014, 03:43 AM
We do not know the scale of the GM-30 Booster bug in terms of number of buffed accounts, I have faith in Cory/CZE to do what they feel is fair (whether they honour, rollback accounts or whatever).

Another argument in favour of a wipe is that the 250$ tier codes were released and redeemed without perfect information and decisions were taken to redeem based on the belief that the 1-year drafts would not stack.

The final reason, and potentially most beneficial and compelling would be to enable them to test drafts on the beta hardware and infrastructure with a view to wiping once the events are stable and functional; in this regard it would be like alpha.

Nobody can assess the necessity for the final point apart from CZE as they are the ones who know the state of events and what needs to be done to get them fixed.

In hindsight, maybe CZE should have opt tested the beta hardware testing, draft, AH and Trade before the wipe and reward day, it would be a bold move to admit this now, and wipe all of the accounts and deal with the QQing around but man I opened XYZ I do not want to lose it.

In summary I can see benefits to a wipe but I don't think it will happen.

Reifu
04-30-2014, 04:13 AM
In hindsight, maybe CZE should have opt tested the beta hardware testing, draft, AH and Trade before the wipe and reward day, it would be a bold move to admit this now, and wipe all of the accounts and deal with the QQing around but man I opened XYZ I do not want to lose it.
I would have liked them to test this stuff before going monetized beta as well, but since they didn't I just have a hard time thinking that they would wipe and redo. I wouldn't care much if they did but I think the tears would drown us all so I don't think it is worth it. Too much negative publicity.

Silent
04-30-2014, 04:15 AM
- Duplicate uncommon bug.
- Weird distribution of rares, when opening 10 packs a time. There might be the same/similar bug here as well. Out of ~ 370 packs and 11 Primals, I'm sitting on 9 Argus, 8 Chosen, 11 Aspirants, 10 Inqusitors, 9 Wretched Blood, 9 Heat Wave, 9 Alexander, 10 Yesterday and then even from such silly rares as Judgement, Mystic Spiritwalker, Circle of Preservation, Immortality, Shrine of Prosperity, Ritualist of the Spring Litter, Omen of Oblivion....I only got 1 or 2. I know it is random, there is a certain chance for everything etc, but with the uncommon bug on top of it, that kind of distribution feels weird and very very wrong.
- Permission to stack 1 year drafts, after people redeemed their codes.
- Guild Master Packs granting Grand King. Possibility, that people used the included drafts, when the tournaments were working for half a while. Which basically they shouldn't have been able to.
- People gaming the reimbursement for the bugged tournaments by joining again and again and again, even though it has been said "Please stop". Thereby gaining 1 free pack and 5.000 gold for every bugged tournament.
- Reimbursement was given for tournaments, that did work, as well, thereby giving some players even more free stuff.

I see a lot of reasons to consider a reset, especiall due to the weird distribition of uncommons and potentially rares/legendaries. This directly affected the outcome of so many packs. Personally It would be nice to have some official statement on this, especially about the amount of duplicates people got. Since CZE is very very pro community, imho they should at least consider to allow a one time only reset for those who choose to do so. That way, people could learn from the current state and decide, whether or not they want to take the risk again or wait a while before they open anything. That would be something, I could get behind as well. Then its up to everyone themselves.

By the way, I did get a fairly decent amount of primals myself and was reimbursed for a few tournaments, before CZE asked us to stop, as well. Getting 9 Argus, 10 Inqusitor, 6 Fist etc isn't that bad either. So I'm not argueing for a reset solely because I feel I had bad luck. I do it, because I feel that I've opened hundreds of packs in a bugged environment, on top of other bugs messing with the beta.

Xenavire
04-30-2014, 04:16 AM
Well, assuming the major bugs (Grand king codes) can be dealt with, there is very little reason for a rollback.

No-one has lost anything that hasn't or can't be replaced at this point.

Poetic
04-30-2014, 04:30 AM
Free grand king seems like the only issue really.

Rares are going to be random. I busted 160 of my packs and got 8 Onslaught vs. 1 Living Totem. Just bad luck.

Double uncommons doesn't seem game breaking.

Silent
04-30-2014, 04:34 AM
No-one has lost anything that hasn't or can't be replaced at this point.

That really depends on how you evaluate all the duplicates flying around. Opening 1 Pack a time I got duplicate uncommons incredibly often. Opening like 200 packs 10 a time I got way too many duplicate rares/uncommons to not worry about a bug. Especially since the uncommon bug shows, that there is a duplicate problem. If there is a problem/bug, then those of us, who opened a lot of packs, did lose something. Sure, I still got 15 cards a pack, but if the opening process was compromised, and thats how I feel it is, then I definitively feel, that there should be a rollback. Make it a one-time only option people have to take during a limited time window from now and you avoid having some people complain about their collection being wiped, while those who don't want to keep a compromised collection get the chance to open those packs, when the duplicate bug is fixed.

Silent
04-30-2014, 04:37 AM
Free grand king seems like the only issue really.

Rares are going to be random. I busted 160 of my packs and got 8 Onslaught vs. 1 Living Totem. Just bad luck.

Double uncommons doesn't seem game breaking.

And with the uncommon bug - a duplication bug - exisiting, how can you know for sure, that this isn't exactly what happened with your rares too, when you opened 10 a time? If I open 370 packs and 11 primals and get some rares/legendaries 10+ times while several silly rares didn't show up more than once, then it stinks quite a lot. If the uncommon bug didn't exist, I'd be on your side. But knowing that there is a duplicate bug, makes it a totally different discussion.

Reifu
04-30-2014, 04:42 AM
And with the uncommon bug - a duplication bug - exisiting, how can you know for sure, that this isn't exactly what happened with your rares too, when you opened 10 a time? If I open 370 packs and 11 primals and get some rares/legendaries 10+ times while several silly rares didn't show up more than once, then it stinks quite a lot. If the uncommon bug didn't exist, I'd be on your side. But knowing that there is a duplicate bug, makes it a totally different discussion.

Nice theory, but until CZE confirms that there is an issue also with rares/legendaries it is just pure speculation and nothing to start yelling "RESET" over. If it is an issue of course they will have to fix it somehow. Otherwise everyone who feels beat by RNG will keep asking for resets all the time over unconfirmed "issues".

Poetic
04-30-2014, 04:42 AM
Guess I'm just used to it. I played paper magic for 16 years and have cracked many booster boxes in that time. Opening a box and getting 1 uncommon you want, meanwhile getting 7 of one you don't.

The same uncommon being in a pack is weird. But I don't think the same thing applies to the rares. I don't know how it works, are packs generated when opened or when they hit your inventory.

Xenavire
04-30-2014, 04:46 AM
Silent, if there are any bugs in the 'open 10' option, they will be found and squashed. But I don't believe there are any bugs, I just think people are seeing patterns where there are none.

I tested it thoroughly in alpha. I got plenty of duplicate rares over 2-300 boosters. The spread was fairly even by the end.

Go ask the people who opened ~700 boosters how many edge cases of duplicates they have, then compare all those sets of data. I am sure you will find that they even out.

Silent
04-30-2014, 04:52 AM
Nice theory, but until CZE confirms that there is an issue also with rares/legendaries it is just pure speculation and nothing to start yelling "RESET" over. If it is an issue of course they will have to fix it somehow. Otherwise everyone who feels beat by RNG will keep asking for resets all the time over unconfirmed "issues".

Thats why I said "might" and "if". I don't know, if there is a problem right now with the distribution of rares/legendaries, when opening 10 packs a time. What I do know, is that there is a duplication bug, that gives you duplicate uncommons per pack incredibly often. I've seen duplicate rares, even legendaries (thus f.x. 9 Argus already) quite a lot, when I opened 10 packs a time. So obviously I'm worried. I've been playing TCGs for more than a decade now. I know about RNG. I know about bad luck. Its part of the game. But right now we are talking about a beta environment, where the opening process already revealed a duplicate bug regarding uncommons in one pack. I only feel, that it is logical to consider, that the same bug also affects rares/legendaries on the "10 a time opening process". At least after seeing weirdly many duplicates myself.

And until CZE says the bug only affects the uncommons in a pack, I have to voice my concerns, because a bug might have compromised the opening process of almost 400 of my packs. By the way, while I agree that the uncommon bug probably isn't enough to force a server wide reset, I do think, it is still enough to justify a one time only reset for those who choose to. It is a bug that affected the outcome of packs people bought. Thats huge in a paid environment, no matter if its commons, uncommons or rares.

Xenavire
04-30-2014, 04:59 AM
9x of almost any legendary card is going to earn you money back on the AH. I think the exceptions will be Cosmic Transmogrifier and Comet Strike.

And I still don't think it is a bug, I think it is more likely that the huge number of people cracking packs is skewing the results a bit. (RNG, especially seeded with event based progression, can often spit out results that do not seem random to someone who has limited interaction with the system. Getting 2 or 3 of what seems like the 'same' result is actually common, but it doesn't disprove the randomness of the event.)

fido_one
04-30-2014, 05:19 AM
I have had a few double uncommons - this is revealing how inexperienced I am with TCGs in general, but didn't think that all uncommons in a pack where supposed to be different. CZE has stated/implied that all uncommons shouldn't match up in a pack?

Also, I originally started reading this thread thinking it was ridiculous - not as much anymore - the GK duplicate thing is definitely worrisome, and I also agree with the reasoning of people like silent saying that if the uncommons are bugged, other things could be.

I still don't think I'd roll back to be honest, but hearing from CZE on this would definitely help matters.

Silent
04-30-2014, 05:37 AM
9x of almost any legendary card is going to earn you money back on the AH. I think the exceptions will be Cosmic Transmogrifier and Comet Strike.

And I still don't think it is a bug, I think it is more likely that the huge number of people cracking packs is skewing the results a bit. (RNG, especially seeded with event based progression, can often spit out results that do not seem random to someone who has limited interaction with the system. Getting 2 or 3 of what seems like the 'same' result is actually common, but it doesn't disprove the randomness of the event.)

If I would have gotten 9 Argus, 8 Chosen, 10 Inquisitor....without the uncommon bug, I would be on your side. RNG is part of the game and a lot of those duplicates will go for a few thousand plat on the AH. Everything seems to point toward that the uncommon bug is a reality though. Opening a pack and getting duplicates via a bug is huge. If I would have opened 370 packs one at a time and in the end opened with the same distribution, I wouldn't even argue this one.

But I opened hundreds of packs 10 at a time and more than once I saw 2 Alexander, 2 Argus, 2 Inquisitor....I cannot just let this one go and say "Well, I can sell a lot of the duplicates and by singles/packs" as long as I have the feeling, that my whole opening process was compromised. I mean Argus is legendary and getting him twice out of 10 packs like 3 times is ridiculous. I would have said "bad luck" without the uncommon bug. But without any official statement and the uncommon bug around....nah, this is too huge. I need something from CZE on this and I still think, that the uncommon bug alone justifies a "on demand reset".

Tathel
04-30-2014, 05:38 AM
I've opened One pack, So I have no stake either way. I figured there'd be some issues so I more or less planned on only using packs for draft and that's been down.

They did say no roll backs from this point, So I think people who want to keep what exists should probably be waited higher then those who want a wipe or rollback, but if there was a big enough push i wouldn't be annoyed or think anything of it.

mach
04-30-2014, 05:38 AM
It would have been better for (nearly) everyone if they had planned a 2-phase closed beta with a wipe in the middle. It's too late for that, of course, so they're stuck with a tricky decision.

On one hand, they've said we're playing for real, and it would hurt to go back on that. A wipe is also significant work, between explaining the change in plans to everyone and redoing things like KS code generation. This will inevitably cause lots of confusion, especially among the backers who aren't forum regulars. This is not something that can be done lightly.

On the other hand, there're all the issues people have raised in this thread. Keep in mind that even if they can fix them completely, that still takes away time and other resources that could be spent on the game itself. Additionally, each time they generously compensate people for an issue it dilutes the value of everyone's collections and reduces their revenues.

There will surely be more issues. I expect the next batch to come when tournaments are brought back. The really tricky ones, however, will come when trading and the AH are implemented, since then you can have multiple players involved.

So I don't know. I'm glad that it isn't my job to make this decision. The one thing I can say for sure is that if they do decide to wipe, they should announce it as soon as possible but not actually do the wipe until later in beta when all features are in. That way we won't have this problem repeat itself after the wipe.

Gorgol
04-30-2014, 05:49 AM
Idk, maybe it is just me, but this would be a great time to start getting their tools online for targeted issues. What if these exact issues came at launch? Just roll everybody back? How about 3 or 4 sets down the line something similar comes up, roll everyone back? That's not exactly a lot of trust going to be left for long. I know it is still closed beta and all, but at some point they have to put their targeted systems to the test.

Mahes
04-30-2014, 06:03 AM
Problem is this,

Nothing guarantees that if they do a full roll back, that nothing will happen then either. I am pretty sure it is just easier to deal with a few isolated incidences and call this a success, rather than trying to roll the dice again.

The duplicate uncommons, while interesting in that this could extend into the rares and legendaries, does very little to actually hurt a player value wise. Opening 10 packs at a time is where I could see this little bug rearing its evil head and I am sure they are investigating this possible problem. If complaints are just about getting two of the same uncommons then I have to laugh about those complaints. A player will find that it is very easy to get a full play set of commons and uncommon once the AH opens. I promise it will not be overly expensive.

I would be shocked, jaw on the floor, amazed if they did a roll back. I would also be very concerned.

Bells
04-30-2014, 06:03 AM
It seems, looking the forums, the amount of real issues vs the volume of players not only is small, but is also being resolved in a fairly positive manner. This tells me that a wipe is not necessary.

i honestly do think we SHOULD get a Wipe when going into OPEN Beta... just return all purchases to Platinum. Gold earned is lost, card collections reset. Everybody gets the ''GO'' together and at once. Those who played closed get the experience of doing so and a nice bulk of platinum to re-buy their stuff and dig deeper into the game.

I think this only because i want to give crypt a larger margin of error really... So that everybody can go a little nuts and test the shit out of this Beta with no fear... because it's just going to wipe anyway...

this is the one thing that actually bothers me, because less involved players might get cagey and hold themselves back from playing the game and getting into it because they might be afraid of bug reports and lost golds and tournaments... just knowing that everything will reset at some point would put everybody on equal footing and put some minds at ease... so there is value there...

Other than that though... we don't NEED a wipe...

Gorgol
04-30-2014, 06:08 AM
You mean like the utterly massive amount of testing that was being done toward the end of the alpha? Oh wait, it was largely empty. There would be SIGNIFICANTLY less people testing things if going into closed beta it was said that a wipe would occur at the end when transitioning into open beta.

Xenavire
04-30-2014, 06:14 AM
You mean like the utterly massive amount of testing that was being done toward the end of the alpha? Oh wait, it was largely empty. There would be SIGNIFICANTLY less people testing things if going into closed beta it was said that a wipe would occur at the end when transitioning into open beta.

Yeah, the regulars did test as much as possible, but we lacked any real 'oomph' numbers wise, especially after the last devs draft.

Thrawn
04-30-2014, 06:23 AM
Problem is this,
I would be shocked, jaw on the floor, amazed if they did a roll back. I would also be very concerned.

This is the biggest issue to me. If they did a rollback a lot of people who are already having doubts are going to lose faith in CZE's ability to run the game. If the trading side of TCG is going to flourish it will require high consumer confidence and a wipe for any reason will destroy that.

I'm really shocked by how many people think a wipe is just a casual thing for a game that is aiming to have value in its digital products similar to MTGO. The fact that it's beta is irrelevant to that since people have started putting down real cash for digital items.

Bells
04-30-2014, 06:28 AM
There is no way to make that affirmation outside of ''i think so'' ...so it's assumption on your part.

When moving from Alpha to Beta you don't carry over all your history. It's a new phase of a project where a number of things might have changed. It's a change on the structure of the game in development stages, it NEEDS a wipe because sometimes the Alpha code doesn't even WORK fully in the Beta client.

But CLOSED beta to OPEN beta is not like that... it's much less aggressive, because most of the padding and flooring is already in place. Now it's just attaching modules and making sure one that one doesn't break the other. And if it does break, it's much easier to isolate the problem from the rest and work on that.

Which is why, as i said before... i don't think we NEED a Wipe... but i see value in it. When Crypt assumes the commitment of ''no more wipes going forward'' it creates an expectation of ''we don't need wipes because stuff ain't going to break no more'' . So when it does break (because it's beta... it can, and most assuredly will), people freak out a little bit. Online games that rely on real money economy to keep going, rely a LOT on trust and it's own track record of getting stuff fixed.

Crypt, as far as i can see, is actually showing a great stride in fixing stuff for individual players and for the whole beta group. I feel really confident with them right now. Which is why i said i don't think we need a Wipe... they can deal with the issues.

However, if Crypt came out and said ''yeah, we should have a wipe to mark the end of closed beta'' that would not bother me at all... i would probably see value in that. I have zero issues with restarting my card collection if that means the overall player base might get a smoother experience later on in return.

LLCoolDave
04-30-2014, 06:33 AM
I don't get why people say that duplicate uncommons is a big deal. It's a bug that needs to be fixed, sure, but it's not like it has a major impact on your pack opening value. It's not like any of the cards in the uncommon slots are going to be worth anything. Duplicate rares in bulk openings are probably slightly more of a concern, if they even exist in the sense of a bug leading to duplicate rares being more likely than they should be. People have incredibly terrible intuition as to how probability distributions actually behave and we don't have nearly enough data to draw any conclusions so far. At 129 different cards that can appear in the rare slot of a booster, there's about a 30% chance of having at least one duplicate in a set of 10 boosters (!!, see Birthday Paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem)), disregarding rarity distribution which shouldn't significantly change that figure (We're still at roughly 30% rate for duplicates when considering 9 of 106 possible rares in a set of 10 boosters as an approximation).

In other words, getting two of the same rare when opening a set of 10 boosters at once is not at all a significant event, it's expected to happen fairly frequently after all. Getting duplicate legendaries is a tad more suspicious, but to draw any conclusions we need vastly more data on this. For whatever worthless anecdotal evidence you want, after 4 Primals and 3 regular boosters I now have 3 Cosmic Transmogrifiers and 4 Mancubus in my collection. Huzzah.

Silent
04-30-2014, 07:11 AM
And I don't get, why people say, that duplicate uncommons aren't a big deal. We are talking about a monetized environment, where an essential part of it is bugged. If the opening process is compromised, regardless of the rarity-slot, it IS a huge deal. Not only devalues it the opening experience, but it also messes with the overall collection. A collection that should be put together by opening boosters without any bugs, that compromise the distribution.

I respect, that a lot of people don't care about their uncommons, when opening a booster. I do though and seeing duplicates way more often, than I should have, did compromise my collection and devalue my opening experience. It did even lead to my decision to open boosters in bulks, only to get a weirdly distribution of rares/legendaries there too. Of course I feel, that the uncommon bug extends to rares/legendaries while opening in bulk as well.

It's fine, if people don't want a wipe. I'm not even argueing for one myself. I suggest, that CZE offers an "on demand reset" of opened boosters, so that those who want, can open them again, after it has been fixed. I really don't care, if the commons, uncommons or rare slots are bugged. A crucial part of the opening system seems bugged and that alone should justify a reset, if so wanted.

YuukiRus
04-30-2014, 07:25 AM
No reason for a rollback. We should really avoid it in my opinion.
People are fond of the cards they have collected in most cases.

Vorpal
04-30-2014, 07:29 AM
If I got more primals than before, absolutely!

If I got less primals than before, waaaaaah horrible idea, world is ending!

Daer
04-30-2014, 07:35 AM
No, there is no reason to do a global rollback.

knightofeffect
04-30-2014, 07:38 AM
I don't think a wipe is needed at all; however, there is a certain appeal in having a fresh start when all the current bugs are straightened out.

Full Disclosure - I only got 2+1 primals from of 245 packs. So, in summary, Colin's post from the first page.

issowi
04-30-2014, 08:00 AM
Realistically nothing of large impact affecting cards or collections has happened so I'd say no. In a brand new economy with the number of packs likely opened by this point the issue with card flipping is negligible. Of course this is subject to change if a major impact bugs is found dealing with collections.

mudkip
04-30-2014, 08:25 AM
Re: OP

Yes I think CZE should wipe. That said, I think I'd be in the minority that are happy to reset my collection - most people would rather keep theirs.

Bells
04-30-2014, 09:02 AM
On the Duplicates issue, we need to be sensible to the community...

for the people who were afflicted by duplicates, it's a huge problem. Of course. Why wouldn't be? It's your own personal collection... it's the most important thing for your own account. Of course!

But, if we think of it as community... considering the playerbase... do we really have enough cases to say ''no, this whole thing is busted... lets start over.'' ? And i don't mean just instances of it happening... was it fixed for the individuals that went trhough this? Is Crypt acting on it? Because if they are... then... yeah, Wipe is overkill.

We need to have a sense of community... it may suck that you invested in packs and they didn't turn out the way you wanted them to... but that happens. That's pretty much why we have Auction House. The idea is that you just might be able to offload a lot of your least wanted cards to go after the few that you actually want...

But it is not fair to ask for a wipe just because your collection is not as shiny as you'd hope it to be...

Saeijou
04-30-2014, 09:12 AM
Cory said no wipes after start of beta... ;)

noragar
04-30-2014, 09:30 AM
As long as the bug is that there's a missing check to disallow two Uncommons from appearing in the same pack, then the duplicate Uncommons are really only an issue if your plan is to only ever open one pack per set.

If you open two packs and get,

Pack 1: Evolve, Evolve, Volcannon
Pack 2: Rose Lion, Claw of the Mountain God, Bone Warrior

that's no different than opening two packs and getting,

Pack 1: Evolve, Rose Lion, Volcannon
Pack 2: Evolve, Claw of the Mountain God, Bone Warrior

If instead, the bug were something like "anytime Rose Lion appears as the first card in a pack, it's replaced with Evolve instead", then that would affect the overall distribution/rarity of cards and would be a bigger problem.

Even in that case, I would think/hope there would be a better way to address the situation than a complete wipe.

Silent
04-30-2014, 10:17 AM
Thats why I keep suggesting an on demand reset. People can keep their collection, if they want or they can reset their collection due to the bug and have to live with all the consequences of the new outcome. Obviously those people want to wait for the duplicate problem to be fixed. I'd probably take that deal and be fine with it. No need for an overall wipe. But since CZE always puts the players first and did change their stance on crucial things before for the benefit of the players, I think it would be justified here too. Especially since an "on demand reset" wouldn't be a wipe, rather than a customer support fix for those, who saw their collection compromised and opening experience devalued.

Bells
04-30-2014, 10:25 AM
Thats why I keep suggesting an on demand reset. People can keep their collection, if they want or they can reset their collection due to the bug and have to live with all the consequences of the new outcome. Obviously those people want to wait for the duplicate problem to be fixed. I'd probably take that deal and be fine with it. No need for an overall wipe. But since CZE always puts the players first and did change their stance on crucial things before for the benefit of the players, I think it would be justified here too. Especially since an "on demand reset" wouldn't be a wipe, rather than a customer support fix for those, who saw their collection compromised and opening experience devalued.

No man. that would just mean people would be re-rolling their packs untill they get what they want... which would then turn to this same people complaining of any global wipes going forward....

Silent
04-30-2014, 10:34 AM
No man. that would just mean people would be re-rolling their packs untill they get what they want... which would then turn to this same people complaining of any global wipes going forward....

Of course it would be a one time only option due to the current bug. Obviously there is no need to allow a reset after the bug is fixed. But right now, it did compromise peoples collection and to do nothing about it, would just be bad customer service. Especially since they even did change their firm stances on crucial matters.

Xenavire
04-30-2014, 10:44 AM
Of course it would be a one time only option due to the current bug. Obviously there is no need to allow a reset after the bug is fixed. But right now, it did compromise peoples collection and to do nothing about it, would just be bad customer service. Especially since they even did change their firm stances on crucial matters.

I see very few people actually complaining about the doubled up uncommons. You could try a petition to get it changed, and CZE might have plans in place already, but I doubt it is needed, nor will the majority that are affected even care.

I mean really, they are uncommons. They will be worth cents in a few weeks.

Khazrakh
04-30-2014, 10:47 AM
I see very few people actually complaining about the doubled up uncommons. You could try a petition to get it changed, and CZE might have plans in place already, but I doubt it is needed, nor will the majority that are affected even care.

I mean really, they are uncommons. They will be worth cents in a few weeks.

I only care about it when its happening in draft. Not a major bug in any way though.

Xenavire
04-30-2014, 10:48 AM
I only care about it when its happening in draft. Not a major bug in any way though.

I haven't heard a single report of draft ever having this issue. Can anyone point to a thread where it has been talked about?

hex_colin
04-30-2014, 11:07 AM
I only care about it when its happening in draft. Not a major bug in any way though.

Agreed. It's completely inconsequential any other time. But I'd like to see it fixed for draft.

Actually, it may have been already been resolved yesterday. :)


I haven't heard a single report of draft ever having this issue. Can anyone point to a thread where it has been talked about?

I haven't seen it either. But presumably the potential exists - worth checking if nothing else.

Silent
04-30-2014, 11:19 AM
I see very few people actually complaining about the doubled up uncommons. You could try a petition to get it changed, and CZE might have plans in place already, but I doubt it is needed, nor will the majority that are affected even care.

I mean really, they are uncommons. They will be worth cents in a few weeks.

For me, its not just the money, but also the opening experience. And it compromised the collection. And I'm still not sure, if the same duplicate bug didn't compromise the rare distribution while opening i bulks. If CZE would allow tickets to get an account reset on a case to case basis, for those wanting it, Id be fine with that. MY experience was devalued a lot and I DO think the bug has been huge and since this has been in a monetized environment, I think, that CZE should stick to "players first". If not, I'd probably lose a lot of trust after seeing all those stances changed about trading mercs, stacking drafts etc. Stuff, where there hasnt been any bug or anything, aside from people complaining.

Xenavire
04-30-2014, 11:22 AM
For me, its not just the money, but also the opening experience.

You actually have me dead on this one. If you don't enjoy opening the packs, then the cards may as well just drop into your inventory instead of dealing with the in-between. I see your point, and it might be in CZE's interests to reimburse those people who want it.

Maybe sending in a ticket would be a good middle ground?

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 11:40 AM
I can say it's virtually impossible the the rare distribution or even uncommon distribution is messed up for the economy as a whole.

If you go to hexvault.com and listen to the PVP discussion I ask in that video for CW to tell us how pack opening, and card distribution will be handled. From that description the distribution of each individual card is guaranteed across the population.

mach
04-30-2014, 11:47 AM
I haven't seen it either. But presumably the potential exists - worth checking if nothing else.

This raises an interesting issue. If this is happening in pack opening but not draft, this means the pack generation code is different. Could there be other differences between the two?

For example, remember the bug from a while back which caused the legendary chance to be less than it should be? You could see a bug like that only in draft, or only in pack opening. Or perhaps only in mass pack opening, if that is different as well.

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 11:55 AM
It'd be very strange if it was different. I very much doubt that it is. It's just fairly rare and maybe the people hit with it didn't know it was wrong? Dunno.

Silent
04-30-2014, 12:23 PM
You actually have me dead on this one. If you don't enjoy opening the packs, then the cards may as well just drop into your inventory instead of dealing with the in-between. I see your point, and it might be in CZE's interests to reimburse those people who want it.

Maybe sending in a ticket would be a good middle ground?

I will gladly send a ticket, if someone from CZE tells me to do so. The problem I see right now is that tickets are handled by Gameforge and before I see Cory or someone else state, that CZE is sticking to the "player first" stance and allows for an "on demand reset" because of the bug, I doubt Gameforge will do anything about my ticket.

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 12:25 PM
*edit* never mind. But I'm still thinking it real hard.

Silent
04-30-2014, 01:20 PM
I did send a tweet to HexTCG asking about an official reponse to this issue. Hopefully this is something we will get an answer on soon. As soon as tournaments are up again it, people obviously want to play and I'd rather reset my collection now, instead of playing a dozen of drafts and then have to decide whether or not to do it.

So I hope this will be taken seriously, especially since its less than two hours until my birthday and I don't want to celebrate that day without the amazing Hex Hype I had for almost a year by now :)

Xenavire
04-30-2014, 01:21 PM
I did send a tweet to HexTCG asking about an official reponse to this issue. Hopefully this is something we will get an answer on soon. As soon as tournaments are up again it, people obviously want to play and I'd rather reset my collection now, instead of playing a dozen of drafts and then have to decide whether or not do it. So I hope this will be taken serious, especially since its less than two hours until my birthday and I don't want to celebrate that day without the amazing Hex Hype I had for almost a year by now :)

Hey, happy birthday! I hope you have an awesome day :D Maybe drafts will be up as a great birthday gift?

Shaqattaq
04-30-2014, 01:28 PM
There will be no rollback or reset of rewards. Those who have been negatively affected by the delay in tournaments or bugged tournaments have been taken care of, so there is no need for that at this time. The duplication of uncommons within a pack was identified by our engineering team and a fix is in place. Our engineers reviewed the code and there was no problem with rares or Primal Packs.

Rollbacks aren't to be taken lightly and affect every user, especially in a situation where a player may be disappointed should he or she have to open packs again and get a less desired outcome than the previous one.

Daer
04-30-2014, 01:32 PM
If there was a thumbs up emote I would now use it.

GatticusFinch
04-30-2014, 01:37 PM
And what of the players who were disappointed with the packs they already opened because they were hit with the bug?

Silent
04-30-2014, 01:42 PM
There will be no rollback or reset of rewards. Those who have been negatively affected by the delay in tournaments or bugged tournaments have been taken care of, so there is no need for that at this time. The duplication of uncommons within a pack was identified by our engineering team and a fix is in place. Our engineers reviewed the code and there was no problem with rares or Primal Packs.

Rollbacks aren't to be taken lightly and affect every user, especially in a situation where a player may be disappointed should he or she have to open packs again and get a less desired outcome than the previous one.

So while you admit, that there was a bug and that it did affect the opening process, you don't offer a reset for those, who feel it was a major devalueation of their experience? After seeing mercs becoming tradable, 1 year drafts stack etc just because people were complaining, I'm shocked. VERY! This is absolutely no "Player First". You admit a bug, I say, that this bug affected me in a major way regarding boosters I paid for and there is no reimbursement?

I know that rollbacks are a sensitive thing and I understand that this isn't critical enough to make a global wipe. I KNOW that I could end up with worse cards or less primals, but thats something I accept, if it should be that way, as long as my opening experience isn't compromised as before.

Gorgol
04-30-2014, 01:46 PM
So, duplicate uncommons = "major devaluation of your experience"? Yeesh. Or are you just unhappy with the rares and legendaries you got so you want do-overs? Maybe you're unhappy you didn't have the self-control to hold out for tournaments to come back up so now you have less packs than you wanted to draft with. :rolleyes: Here's a hint, uncommons will be as cheap as commons, aka worth pennies tops.

Rendakor
04-30-2014, 01:52 PM
So while you admit, that there was a bug and that it did affect the opening process, you don't offer a reset for those, who feel it was a major devalueation of their experience? After seeing mercs becoming tradable, 1 year drafts stack etc just because people were complaining, I'm shocked. VERY! This is absolutely no "Player First". You admit a bug, I say, that this bug affected me in a major way regarding boosters I paid for and there is no reimbursement?

I know that rollbacks are a sensitive thing and I understand that this isn't critical enough to make a global wipe. I KNOW that I could end up with worse cards or less primals, but thats something I accept, if it should be that way, as long as my opening experience isn't compromised as before.I refuse to believe you are this angry about a few uncommons. You're either shamelessly trolling, or you didn't get as many legendaries/primals as you wanted and want a reroll.

Silent
04-30-2014, 01:57 PM
I'm sitting on 9 Argus, 10 Inquistor, 6 Fists...I don't think I was that unlucky. On top of that, I was able to play a draft, while tournaments were working and I won that draft, granting me 5 boosters and 20.000 gold. I still got refunded for this draft and three other bugged ones, giving me a total extra of 1 draft, 4 boosters and 20.000 gold.

So with a reset I'm down 1 draft, 9 boosters and 40.000 gold for sure and could end up with a way worse collection. Yes, that bug was that important for me and I don't think, thats any of your business. This is a monetized environment and a crucial part of that was bugged, while I opened almost 400 of my packs. To me opening packs was something I was looking forward to very much, which is the reason I did open so many so early. This experience was devalued by the bug.

If everything is fine for you, I'm very happy for you. But that isn't the case on my end.

GatticusFinch
04-30-2014, 02:01 PM
The simple solution is let people who played this past weekend while the bug was live to request individual wipes. Doesn't hit everyone universally and lets people make the decision as they feel necessary.

Hell, I'd actually be giving things back if I did it because of the bugged tournament compensation.

hammer
04-30-2014, 02:02 PM
Given you opened at least 374 Set 1 packs and 11 Primals I think it is fair to say you have a playset of every uncommon.


I've opened 374 boosters and 11 Primals and the most I got of a single card in Legendary is 9 Argus and in Rare 10 Inquisitor. Hopefully I'll get to trade/sell those for some cards I'm missing :D

and as a 3 pro-player tier stacker I am sure you can draft anything you miss.


8/465 (3 Pro Player Tiers. Without the guaranteed 3. With those its 11)

Could have been better but worse as well, I guess. Luckily 3 drafts a week for life are plenty of options for additional primals :)

I too find it hard to believe you are that upset about a few uncommons

AswanJaguar
04-30-2014, 02:05 PM
Silent, if you feel that the bug caused you to receive an unequal distribution of uncommons, why don't you open a support ticket and see what they're willing to do for you? Shaq said that they're not doing a global rollback, he didn't say that they're not willing to deal concerns on a case-by-case basis.

Rendakor
04-30-2014, 02:07 PM
I'm sitting on 9 Argus, 10 Inquistor, 6 Fists...I don't think I was that unlucky. On top of that, I was able to play a draft, while tournaments were working and I won that draft, granting me 5 boosters and 20.000 gold. I still got refunded for this draft and three other bugged ones, giving me a total extra of 1 draft, 4 boosters and 20.000 gold.

So with a reset I'm down 1 draft, 9 boosters and 40.000 gold for sure and could end up with a way worse collection. Yes, that bug was that important for me and I don't think, thats any of your business. This is a monetized environment and a crucial part of that was bugged, while I opened almost 400 of my packs. To me opening packs was something I was looking forward to very much, which is the reason I did open so many so early. This experience was devalued by the bug.

If everything is fine for you, I'm very happy for you. But that isn't the case on my end.
What does a reset actually do for you then? Instead of having 40 of Uncommon_X and 20 of Uncommon_Y, you'll end up with 30 of each. That's not worth the effort on CZE's part, just deal with it or ragequit and sell your account because ERMAGERD MAH DUPLICATES.



The simple solution is let people who played this past weekend while the bug was live to request individual wipes. Doesn't hit everyone universally and lets people make the decision as they feel necessary.

Hell, I'd actually be giving things back if I did it because of the bugged tournament compensation.

The simplest solution is to post on the forums telling everyone that there won't be a wipe because the bug isn't a big deal. If only they would-oh wait.

Silent
04-30-2014, 02:10 PM
Silent, if you feel that the bug caused you to receive an unequal distribution of uncommons, why don't you open a support ticket and see what they're willing to do for you? Shaq said that they're not doing a global rollback, he didn't say that they're not willing to deal concerns on a case-by-case basis.

The way I read his reply, it was a universal "NO". If that isn't the case, I'd be fine with that. I know a lot of people don't care about their opening experience aside from the rare. But I am one of those, who actually would have loved to see a "1 card at a time"-option implemented. I got so many boosters with duplicates, where I sat and thought "this sucks", while every pack should have been "YAY!!!". I want that "YAY!!!" for all of my packs, just as it should have been. They admitted there was a bug and that it has been fixed. Just reset my account and if I get a worse collection, then thats absolutely fine with me, as long as I can enjoy opening every single pack and think "this is exactly what you should have gotten".

GatticusFinch
04-30-2014, 02:11 PM
If the goal is to piss people off and not be "player first," then yes, that is the simplest solution.

The bug is important to me. Knowing my collection is not what it was supposed to be after the game went monetized and rewards were handed out is a huge issue for me. Whether it is off by one card or off by fifty is immaterial to me. I want it as it was meant to be, not as it was bugged out to be. If I lose my tournament compensation and end up with less primal packs or worse rares, so be it.

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 02:13 PM
Your collection is what it was meant to be. That duplicates bug was fated to be as it was. All is right with the world.

AswanJaguar
04-30-2014, 02:13 PM
The way I read his reply, it was a universal "NO". If that isn't the case, I'd be fine with that. I know a lot of people don't care about their opening experience aside from the rare. But I am one of those, who actually would have loved to see a "1 card at a time"-option implemented. I got so many boosters with duplicates, where I sat and thought "this sucks", while every pack should have been "YAY!!!". I want that "YAY!!!" for all of my packs, just as it should have been. They admitted there was a bug and that it has been fixed. Just reset my account and if I get a worse collection, then thats absolutely fine with me, as long as I can enjoy opening every single pack and think "this is exactly what you should have gotten".

I'm sure you are not alone in wanting a genuine pack-opening experience. I'd also bet that Cory wants us all to have the same feeling opening Hex packs as we do opening MTG packs and drooling over our rares and catching the last uncommon we need for a playset. Give support a chance to respond to your request and let us know how it goes.

Silent
04-30-2014, 02:14 PM
What does a reset actually do for you then? Instead of having 40 of Uncommon_X and 20 of Uncommon_Y, you'll end up with 30 of each. That's not worth the effort on CZE's part, just deal with it or ragequit and sell your account because ERMAGERD MAH DUPLICATES.

Another post from someone who isn't capable of understanding, that its not only about the outcome but the opening experience. I know, that after several packs I probably have all uncommons. The bug still compromised the collection and had a huge impact on THE OPENING EXPERIENCE! If this experience should mean nothing, why implement such a thing after all? Why did Cory make a blogpost about it? Cracking packs is a huge part of my TCG experience and that bug compromised that. If you don't get that, then please stop answering on my posts.

Daer
04-30-2014, 02:17 PM
I'm sorry seeing duplicate uncommons a couple times destroyed your life. My suggestion is you quit Hex. Can I have your stuff?

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 02:18 PM
I hate to break it to you. But you'll never have an enjoyable opening experience. It can't happen now. that one duplicate card you got, just ruined you for life, even starting fresh won't take the pain away.

GatticusFinch
04-30-2014, 02:19 PM
And in comes the fanboy brigade.

"Oh, you can stack free drafts in one account now? PLAYERS FIRST! YAY CZE!"

to

"Oh, there will be no option to roll back for people who experienced a collection changing bug and are upset about it? FUCK YOU FOR WANTING ONE! YOUR FEELINGS ARE IRRELEVANT AND YOU ARE MOST LIKELY A LIAR!"

Kami
04-30-2014, 02:20 PM
Easy guys. :/

hammer
04-30-2014, 02:23 PM
Easy guys. :/

seriously this thread got the purple response, it has now degenerated, must be time for closure.

Reifu
04-30-2014, 02:24 PM
I am sorry your opening experience is ruined by the tiniest thing that probably didn't even influence the total outcome of your collection. Admit it, if they had come out and said duplicates were ok to get you would be fine with it. So what exactly is the horrible experience with getting duplicates in one pack rather than over say two packs? Where is the difference? Random is still random, they just decided to go with not wanting multiples in one pack allowed rather than doing it. How would either option destroy your experience?

GatticusFinch
04-30-2014, 02:24 PM
seriously this thread got the purple response, it has now degenerated, must be time for closure.

You were the first one to degenerate it when you implied someone who wanted a rollback was a liar.

mach
04-30-2014, 02:27 PM
There will be no rollback or reset of rewards.

Is this just a statement about the current issues or a blanket promise for the future?

I agree that rollbacks are not to be taken lightly, but at the same time I don't think you should be incinerating one of the most powerful tools in your toolbox. There's a good chance that there will be much bigger issues at some point in the future. You may have to choose between a quick 1-hour rollback and taking the servers down for multiple days to precisely fix things.

Silent
04-30-2014, 02:28 PM
And in comes the fanboy brigade.

"Oh, you can stack free drafts in one account now? PLAYERS FIRST! YAY CZE!"

to

"Oh, there will be no option to roll back for people who experienced a collection changing bug and are upset about it? FUCK YOU FOR WANTING ONE! YOUR FEELINGS ARE IRRELEVANT AND YOU ARE MOST LIKELY A LIAR!"

+1

People were complaing about not being able to stack their 1 year drafts or trading mercs, which CZE did say for almost a year "ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN". In the end CZE decided to give those people their will after all and people celebrate how awesome CZE is, when it comes to "players first".

In this case, CZE officially admitted a bug in a crucial part of the game, that (however small people think this is for them) compromised collections and messed up the opening experience. And complaining about that, gets you an official "NO" and insults from the community? Wow.

AswanJaguar
04-30-2014, 02:31 PM
He paid for a window seat on his flight and was stuck in a middle seat next to two Feral Ogres. Sure, he got to where he was going but that's not the point. It's not a game-breaking bug nor do some people care about the end result but it's a valid complaint. Can people please try to be somewhat supportive as a community and not turn every thread into a pissing match? We have an opportunity to make Hex a vibrant, healthy community but it has to start with us, the early adopters.

hex_colin
04-30-2014, 02:34 PM
He paid for a window seat on his flight and was stuck in a middle seat next to two Feral Ogres. Sure, he got to where he was going but that's not the point. It's not a game-breaking bug nor do some people care about the end result but it's a valid complaint. Can people please try to be somewhat supportive as a community and not turn every thread into a pissing match? We have an opportunity to make Hex a vibrant, healthy community but it has to start with us, the early adopters.

And if he puts in a ticket, I'm pretty sure CZE would give him a pack (see my earlier post). No harm, no foul. It does not warrant consideration of rolling back the database, either individually or en masse. That's reasonable accommodation, and much more than any airline gives you nowadays for dumping you in a middle seat. :P

Xenavire
04-30-2014, 02:35 PM
OK, guys - Shaq has a point. The people upset, I understand your position: 'We have had a bad experience, and we want to have a good experience, can you please give us a rollback and prove you are fans first.'

That is completely fair to request. But if this rollback occurred, lets look at the other side: 'Oh no, my collection is gone, all these cards are horrible, why didn't they stick to fans first?'

It is literally lose/lose for CZE here. Now I don't know if the option for selective rollbacks is possible, but I think that is not a good fix anyway - a player who happened to get two of the same uncommon also got horrible drops, so instead of ignoring it, which they would have done anyway, they opt to game the system for a reroll. Technically they are entitled to this rollback, but if it were not offered, they would not have even considered the duplicate uncommons as noteworthy.

I do think that finding the players and packs that were affected and remove those cards/issue an equal amount of boosters is the best option for genuine reimbursement, but the people affected will claim that as being a simple bandaid.

I don't think there is any kind of win/win here. So one party ends up shorted, no matter what.

saffamike
04-30-2014, 02:36 PM
This is a non-event. You open 50+ packs and you're going to have full-sets of some uncommons, 'bug' or not. If rares and legendaries are unaffected then big deal.

Wiping collections for this is overkill and not warranted in my opinion.

GatticusFinch
04-30-2014, 02:38 PM
And if he puts in a ticket, I'm pretty sure CZE would give him a pack (see my earlier post). No harm, no foul. It does not warrant consideration of rolling back the database, either individually or en masse. That's reasonable accommodation, and much more than any airline gives you nowadays for dumping you in a middle seat. :P

Why would he want a pack? He has got more than enough packs. What he want is the opening of packs to operate correctly, not a trivial concern like you want to make it out to be.

hammer
04-30-2014, 02:41 PM
I am curious. Where in your 374 pack opening process did you become so irate with the duplicate uncommons that you start to feel as though your enjoyment of the PACK OPENING EXPERIENCE was being tarnished. Why didn't you stop, report the bug, discuss at that point rather than keep going pack-after-pack to be so bitterly disappointed.

Silent
04-30-2014, 02:47 PM
@AswanJaguar,

I did put in a ticket a short while ago, but I didn't get a response yet.

@Xenavire,

The bug has been fixed or is fixed with a patch very soon. The amount of people able to game that kind of "reset-option" is limited. If someone decides to do so, where is the harm for other players?

CZE decided to change their stance on things like free year drafts stacking. With this they did a good thing for a lot of people, while "harming" all those NOT buying additional 250$ tiers, because it was said "NO STACKING!". They still did it. Offering a case by case reset here wouldn't harm anyone, so why should that be a no go? In this case, its even a bug, that is the reason for complaints. Not only a simple "meh, I want more". And even there, they gave those people, what they wanted.


I am curious. Where in your 374 pack opening process did you become so irate with the duplicate uncommons that you start to feel as though your enjoyment of the PACK OPENING EXPERIENCE was being tarnished. Why didn't you stop, report the bug, discuss at that point rather than keep going pack-after-pack to be so bitterly disappointed.

As I already stated before, I actually stopped opening single packs after 150 packs or so and opened them in bulks instead. Why? Because I said to myself "Well, its RNG, its bad luck. Shit happens". Did I feel it was a bad experience? Yes. But I thought it to be nothing more than bad luck. After reading on the forums I found out, that it wasn't bad luck but an actual BUG! Something I didn't consider at that time. The bug was the sole reason for my tarnished opening experience though and therefore, if CZE really puts players first, a case by case reset, if wanted, should be justified.

sukebe
04-30-2014, 02:52 PM
Silent, as I said in a previous post in this very thread: You did have a genuine pack opening experience. Problems in runs/distribution happen in real life as well and with the same result (you get what you get, no do overs)

Individual resets on request are a terrible idea. It would be far to much work for CZE employees to have to research each request to see if it warrants a reset. There are so many ways they could better use their time that I will not bother listing them.

If you feel that your pack opening experience was so terribly damaged by getting duplicate uncommons (as they said no rares or legendaries were affected) then I can only say that problem is on your end, not CZE. If this had been rares or legendaries I would feel different but with the number of packs you opened there is no noticeable change in what you ended up with. I know you say it is the experience that was affected and the outcome doesnt matter but I just do not see that.

If what you are saying is valid, then we would have to also say that anyone who tried to open packs but had the cards not flip over deserve a reset. Sure what they got didnt change but since the experience wasn't all it could be I guess they need to open all those packs again for free.

I am sorry you feel your experience was horrendously altered by that duplicate uncommon. They are however working on fixing that (incredibly minor) mistake. Once they do, you will have plenty new opportunities in the future to open packs without a duplicated uncommon.

Edit: One more thing to say after your last post. I would argue that CZE refusing to budge on these resets (individual or otherwise) is in fact putting players fist. In a game like this, players collections are very important. If they let people reset their collections for such minor bugs (that most seem to agree have no real effect on your collection or pack opening experience) the entire pack opening and collecting experience would be cheapened. This isn't something I want, it isn't something the community should want, and it isn't something CZE seems to want. It needs to be made clear from the get go that what you open is yours and will not be altered by CZE in any way if at all possible. To me, this inspires far more confidence in CZE than resets would.

saffamike
04-30-2014, 02:58 PM
Silent - with the number of packs that you've opened, does it really matter whether you have 25 copies of uncommon card A and 15 of uncommon B vs a slightly different split? Either way you have a full playset.

I opened 800 packs and I have no issue with the opening experience. But clearly your mileage may vary.

Silent
04-30-2014, 03:00 PM
If you feel that your pack opening experience was so terribly damaged by getting duplicate uncommons (as they said no rares or legendaries were affected) then I can only say that problem is on your end, not CZE. If this had been rares or legendaries I would feel different but with the number of packs you opened there is no noticeable change in what you ended up with. I know you say it is the experience that was affected and the outcome doesnt matter but I just do not see that.

As far as I know, people are allowed to be different. While I would prefer a "card by card"-opening, others could easily live with a simple "put it into my stash"-opening. I know, that a lot of people don't get it. Its just uncommons, whats the fuzz about, right? Well, thats where the "people are different"-part has to be taken into account.

Personally I don't get, why people so easily can start to insult me, tell me to ragequit and other things, when I'm complaining about an actual bug, that for me personally, had a major impact. But when people complain about drafts not stacking or mercs not being tradable, something CZE had a firm stance on, they get their will and CZE is praised for their "players first" mentality.

I mean, what does anyone lose, if I reset my collection and get to enjoy an opening experience without bugs? I could easily end up worse than now, but I can assure you, that instead of complaining, I would come here and say "Thanks CZE! You really put players first and I had 400 "YAY!!"-moments, while opening my packs".

GatticusFinch
04-30-2014, 03:06 PM
Individual resets on request are a terrible idea. It would be far to much work for CZE employees to have to research each request to see if it warrants a reset. There are so many ways they could better use their time that I will not bother listing them.

They already know who was affected. Everyone who got tournament compensation was online when this bug was happening. That's the player pool for who could legitimately request a reset.



Edit: One more thing to say after your last post. I would argue that CZE refusing to budge on these resets (individual or otherwise) is in fact putting players fist. In a game like this, players collections are very important. If they let people reset their collections for such minor bugs (that most seem to agree have no real effect on your collection or pack opening experience) the entire pack opening and collecting experience would be cheapened. This isn't something I want, it isn't something the community should want, and it isn't something CZE seems to want.

This is an extremely limited, one-time request between the very short time a bug existed and a bug was fixed. This isn't an on-demand reset button, it is making things right for a one-time error.

This is not a minor bug. This is the the most important bug as far as I am concerned. Players not actually getting the cards they were supposed to get in a CCG? Whether it is commons, uncommons, or rares, the pack opening and collecting experience was compromised.

w00dy101
04-30-2014, 03:11 PM
Yeah! Reset it! Maybe I will get more than 0* primal packs for my Pro Player tier. I mean, I couldn't get shafted by RNG twice could I? :P

EDIT * Besides the guaranteed one.

hex_colin
04-30-2014, 03:23 PM
Yeah! Reset it! Maybe I will get more than 0* primal packs for my Pro Player tier. I mean, I couldn't get shafted by RNG twice could I? :P

EDIT * Besides the guaranteed one.

I'm pretty sure they can work out how many you got the first time and then give you the same number on reset. ;)


Everyone had the choice to log in, redeem their codes, and open packs. If anyone was worried that it was screwed up, they could have waited, especially since it was clear there would be no reset.

As far as I'm aware, the only confirmed bug was that you get a duplicate uncommon and that that occurred at a very low frequency (less than 1% in my experience). Not exactly game-breaking. Also, apparently it's already fixed, so there was a relatively small window where it could even happen.

styk182
04-30-2014, 03:24 PM
I mean, what does anyone lose, if I reset my collection and get to enjoy an opening experience without bugs? I could easily end up worse than now, but I can assure you, that instead of complaining, I would come here and say "Thanks CZE! You really put players first and I had 400 "YAY!!"-moments, while opening my packs".

If they actually performed an individual reset, based on the way the cards are supposed to be distributed overall, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if they gave you the exact same cards you got the first time just distributed differently throughout the individual packs. So while I guess your individual pack opening experience would be better the second time around, your collection would end up exactly the same. I guess your right that it really shouldn't affect anyone else but... really???

Gorgol
04-30-2014, 03:26 PM
As far as I'm aware, the only confirmed bug was that you get a duplicate uncommon and that that occurred at a very low frequency (less than 1% in my experience). Not exactly game-breaking. Also, apparently it's already fixed, so there was a relatively small window where it could even happen.
Wow, some of these people must have been extremely unlucky then :( Maybe they do deserve a reset.

Silent
04-30-2014, 03:34 PM
So, its 0:30am here and since I want to enjoy my birthday, I'm going to get some sleep first. Unfortunately it is a holiday in Germany, so I doubt I'll get an answer on my ticket from Gameforge today. I still hope, that Cory/CZE will give a somewhat satisfying response, while I'm asleep. I wish everyone a good night/day, depending on where you are from.

GatticusFinch
04-30-2014, 03:36 PM
Everyone had the choice to log in, redeem their codes, and open packs. If anyone was worried that it was screwed up, they could have waited, especially since it was clear there would be no reset.

How was anyone supposed to know the pack opening bugs existed until someone actually opened the packs? What you are asking for is an impossibility. By your logic, I should never play the game even after it is released, because there might be bugs, and they have now made it clear there will be no wipes, so I have no one to blame but myself.

Vorpal
04-30-2014, 03:37 PM
I can't understand the fuss about duplicate uncommons, to be honest.

Of all the reasons to have a rollback this isn't one.

If it was that big a deal CZE could mail everyone effected another random uncommon.

ossuary
04-30-2014, 03:46 PM
Silent, I'm sorry, but your expectations are out of line with reality, period. Nobody owes you anything. This is no different than getting a slightly messed up print run. Wizards won't refund your money and give you fresh packs to crack if you get a slight anomaly in your print run, you just have to live with it. Stop expecting CZE to move heaven and earth just to satisfy your flawed definition of an ideal experience.

There is no need or justification for a reset. You can either accept that, and try to move on from this trauma (:rolleyes:), or you can stay mad and bitter over a trifling inconvenience... but it won't change anything, except make YOU less satisfied than you could be. The system won't (and shouldn't) change; all you can do is change your own outlook.

sukebe
04-30-2014, 03:46 PM
As far as I know, people are allowed to be different. While I would prefer a "card by card"-opening, others could easily live with a simple "put it into my stash"-opening. I know, that a lot of people don't get it. Its just uncommons, whats the fuzz about, right? Well, thats where the "people are different"-part has to be taken into account.

Personally I don't get, why people so easily can start to insult me, tell me to ragequit and other things, when I'm complaining about an actual bug, that for me personally, had a major impact. But when people complain about drafts not stacking or mercs not being tradable, something CZE had a firm stance on, they get their will and CZE is praised for their "players first" mentality.

I mean, what does anyone lose, if I reset my collection and get to enjoy an opening experience without bugs? I could easily end up worse than now, but I can assure you, that instead of complaining, I would come here and say "Thanks CZE! You really put players first and I had 400 "YAY!!"-moments, while opening my packs".

No one would loose out if you got a reset of your rewards. Not you alone anyway. However, if they did this for you, then they have to do it for everyone who feels slighted about their experience. That hurts the integrity of all collections. If you can get a redo because you got extra duplicate uncommons in packs (likely not affecting your collection in any noticeable way) then what is in peoples collections can easily be modified and therefore mean very little.

As for the "it's only a limited number of people and for a short time period": no, that is simply untrue. If they cave in and do it this time then they loose the ability to deny others that same privilege in the future. Even if they only allow things like this in beta (closed or open) it would still be wrong. All it would do is give people who enter the game later more reason to feel slighted. Mistakes like the duplicate commons are bound to happen again in the future. If MTG cannot completely stop them there is no reason to think CZE can.

TLDR: Caving in to demands now sets a bad precedent and makes it more likely they will have to do the same in the future.

Edit: also, i do not mean to insult you or your opinions. I simply do not think that resets should be done on account of those opinions. Your opinions are no more or less valid than anyone elses. If opinions are to be taken into account during policy making then they should act on the good of the majority, not the minority. It has been made clear that your opinion on this matter is in the minority (by far). I am sorry that things didnt work out as well as you would like, but I do not think that warrants setting a poor quality control precedent that could affect the game for the entirety of its life.

Ertzi
04-30-2014, 03:48 PM
I would be very angry if there was a wipe ever again. That would be about the only thing I can think of that would make me lose trust in Crypto. I have painstakingly started to build my collection with real money, so I would be pissed if all that was taken away now. Mind you, I have opened zero Primals and have had pretty rotten luck with legendaries. However, I am already very fond of my collection and my decks.

Cory said there would be no wipes after closed Beta, and I believed that promise. If I knew there would be a wipe, I would not have spend any cash yet, nor too much time at the Beta stage. As it is, I have spent both - and I value both these things significantly - so it would be unfair to just take everything away at this point. Barring some catastrophical failure, that completely prevents us from playing the game, there can be no rollback anymore. Ever.

When you are even flirting with the possibility, you are playing with fire and inviting a huge PR mess.

Vorpal
04-30-2014, 03:50 PM
No game company owes you an ideal opening experience. It's a moving target that varies from person to person and they could never hit it in any case.

If you lost out on cards due to a bug, they should be refunded. But this idea that "well overall opening all those packs left me feeling unhappy so I deserve a do-over" doesn't really fly.

styk182
04-30-2014, 03:51 PM
How was anyone supposed to know the pack opening bugs existed until someone actually opened the packs? What you are asking for is an impossibility. By your logic, I should never play the game even after it is released, because there might be bugs, and they have now made it clear there will be no wipes, so I have no one to blame but myself.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other beta testers out there that are willing to take the chance of experiencing a bug while opening packs and not immediately start demanding takesies backsies. You may not be one of those people. So I guess the real question is are you a beta tester or a beta player? There's nothing wrong with wanting the game to stabilize before playing. Maybe beta just isn't for you.

hex_colin
04-30-2014, 03:59 PM
How was anyone supposed to know the pack opening bugs existed until someone actually opened the packs? What you are asking for is an impossibility. By your logic, I should never play the game even after it is released, because there might be bugs, and they have now made it clear there will be no wipes, so I have no one to blame but myself.

No, it's Closed Beta - you must have known there was some risk. You chose to assume that risk. CZE acknowledged that there were risks and laid out a player friendly process for making people whole. And, as it turns out, the impact of the bug that did exist was completely trivial.

I waited a day to redeem anything just in case. Not because I expected or knew that anything was wrong, but I just wanted to see how things turned out. And, I was "impacted" by the bug. But it's completely inconsequential... I just really find it hard to believe anyone could be upset by getting a duplicate uncommon in a pack. Especially since CZE will likely compensate you if you go through the process...

sukebe
04-30-2014, 04:57 PM
No, it's Closed Beta - you must have known there was some risk. You chose to assume that risk. CZE acknowledged that there were risks and laid out a player friendly process for making people whole. And, as it turns out, the impact of the bug that did exist was completely trivial.

I waited a day to redeem anything just in case. Not because I expected or knew that anything was wrong, but I just wanted to see how things turned out. And, I was "impacted" by the bug. But it's completely inconsequential... I just really find it hard to believe anyone could be upset by getting a duplicate uncommon in a pack. Especially since CZE will likely compensate you if you go through the process...

I may be the minority in this, but I do not the duplicate uncommon bug deserves any compensation what so ever. CZE is striving to have Hex be considered a serious player in the competitive tcg scene. All other competitive tcgs have had some form of error in the printing process and to my knowledge, not one of them has given out compensation for it unless it was significant (like no rare in the pack, or cards severely mis-cut).

If compensation is given out, it shouldn't be any more than 1 random uncommon per pack opened during the time before the bug was known. Even this is more than they really need to do anyway. CZE is definitely a player first company, that does not mean they need to (or should) cave in to every request the players make.

hex_colin
04-30-2014, 05:01 PM
I may be the minority in this, but I do not the duplicate uncommon bug deserves any compensation what so ever. CZE is striving to have Hex be considered a serious player in the competitive tcg scene. All other competitive tcgs have had some form of error in the printing process and to my knowledge, not one of them has given out compensation for it unless it was significant (like no rare in the pack, or cards severely mis-cut).

If compensation is given out, it shouldn't be any more than 1 random uncommon per pack opened during the time before the bug was known. Even this is more than they really need to do anyway. CZE is definitely a player first company, that does not mean they need to (or should) cave in to every request the players make.

I agree completely. I can't even comprehend that anyone would be bothered by it. My only point was that if they were, I'm sure CZE would do something about it which is way above and beyond their obligation in this case.

GatticusFinch
04-30-2014, 05:03 PM
The printing process is totally irrelevant. This is not a print game. I don't know why you keep bringing it up. There aren't printing errors in a digital game. Getting a fucked up pack of MtG cards is a blessing because their rarity brings value. Getting a fucked up pack in Hex is totally worthless.

If I opened a pack of MtG cards and it caused my local card shop to catch on fire and drop local drafts for a week while they repaired the damage, would they justify it by saying "well, Hex lost drafts for a week?" That is how dumb arguing about printing errors is.

Aradon
04-30-2014, 05:14 PM
I can't believe you just compared drafts being down in a beta client for a week to your LGS CATCHING FIRE.
Want a better comparison? Imagine if MtG's latest set had an addition to their tournament reporting tool that prevented shops from registering tournaments or receiving their promotional cards. Would you ragequit MtG, vow never to buy packs again, or even write an aggravated forum post about it?

I imagine some people somewhere would be inconvenienced by such a thing, and I bet there's be a complaint thread on a forum somewhere, but that's all. Nobody would be clamoring for their money back, or replacement packs, or compensation for their time lost. People would note the poor software implementation, and get on with their lives. And since our actual client really is in beta, nobody here should be surprised that the client's not perfect.


Edit: Having reread posts a few more times, I'm more inclined to think now that I am simply misunderstanding the point of your comparison/metaphor completely, so feel free to disregard this post. I still don't get the LGS on fire comparison, but at least it's probable that you are not comparing the two things I originally posted about.

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 05:33 PM
Also, the pack isn't totally worthless... It might be worth more if you got a duplicate of an above average value uncommon...

Gorgol
04-30-2014, 05:34 PM
Also, the pack isn't totally worthless... It might be worth more if you got a duplicate of an above average value uncommon...
:O how much more?!?! Oh yeah, a few cents because everyone and their brother, mother, and grandma will have well over the amount they will ever need.

Gwaer
04-30-2014, 05:34 PM
^ True. =)

More crafting materials?

GatticusFinch
04-30-2014, 05:39 PM
I can't believe you just compared drafts being down in a beta client for a week to your LGS CATCHING FIRE.

I can't believe you missed the point entirely. I picked something purposefully ridiculous happening in reality and excusing it based on something that would only happen in a digital game, just as excusing Hex problems with things that happen in paper games is ridiculous. Are paper magic players bitching about not having triple backed cards because Hex will have them?

Gorgol
04-30-2014, 05:42 PM
^ True. =)

More crafting materials?
Unless specific cards give specific materials (outside of common, uncommon, rare, legendary) then the value remains whether it is 50 of card X or 50 of card Y at the common and uncommon level.

Kami
04-30-2014, 05:43 PM
I think it's fair to say that there will be no full agreement with the decision(s) made. However, I believe that this thread has run its course and you have your official answer already:


There will be no rollback or reset of rewards. Those who have been negatively affected by the delay in tournaments or bugged tournaments have been taken care of, so there is no need for that at this time. The duplication of uncommons within a pack was identified by our engineering team and a fix is in place. Our engineers reviewed the code and there was no problem with rares or Primal Packs.

Rollbacks aren't to be taken lightly and affect every user, especially in a situation where a player may be disappointed should he or she have to open packs again and get a less desired outcome than the previous one.