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oncewasblind
05-01-2014, 10:39 AM
Saw a discussion on this in the client a few days ago, heard some interesting thoughts, so I wanted to bring the conversation to the forums. So what do you think? List out your top 5, if you'd like, do a separate list for most useful and most valuable. For me they are:

Most Valuable
1. Mastery of Time
2. Angel of Dawn
3. Zombie Plague
4. Archmage Wrenlock
5. Vampire King

Most Useful
1. Extinction
2. Mastery of Time
3. Ragefire
4. Angel of Dawn
5. Cerebral Fulmination

Turtlewing
05-01-2014, 10:49 AM
Are we talking most "valuable" as in "worth the most in trade" or as in "most useful"?

Because I've found Living Totem and Soul Marble both make it into a lot of my decks and have a high rate of winning games I use them in, but Angle of Dawn tends to be too inconsistent to rely on as anything more than a good 4/4 flyer. Yet I don't expect to see either of those out-pricing the angel on the exchange.

Xenavire
05-01-2014, 10:50 AM
I think that some of those are good calls, but the ordering might be a little off. I think Zombie plague will be a lot lower in price than all of those, and Archmage Wrenlocke will be somewhat lower too, during set 1.

I also think that Angel would be number 1 for a good amount of the time.

My top 5 for the foreseeable future:
1) Angel of Dawn
2) Vampire King
3) Jadiim
4) Mastery of Time
5) Eternal Guardian

I dont think that the price will accurately reflect how much they see play for the first few weeks, but I feel that this is a good estimate for now.

EDIT: Playing list:
1) Extinction
2) Soul Marble
3) Vampire King
4) Living Totem
5) Xentoth's Inquisitor

oncewasblind
05-01-2014, 11:04 AM
Are we talking most "valuable" as in "worth the most in trade" or as in "most useful"?

Because I've found Living Totem and Soul Marble both make it into a lot of my decks and have a high rate of winning games I use them in, but Angle of Dawn tends to be too inconsistent to rely on as anything more than a good 4/4 flyer. Yet I don't expect to see either of those out-pricing the angel on the exchange.

Awesome question! Let's do both, I'll adjust my list accordingly as well.

GatticusFinch
05-01-2014, 11:07 AM
If we are talking "most useful" with the caveat that they are not so easily obtained as to have no value:

B: Extinction
R: Ragefire
W: Wild Root Dancer
D: Living Totem.
S: ???. (I am kind of "meh" on the S rares and legendaries since they are so combo specific. I find Buccaneer to be perhaps the most OP card in the game, but it is a common)

nicosharp
05-01-2014, 11:10 AM
Xen's list is pretty close to how I feel. I might remove Jadiim, but he is priced(resource costs) pretty well for green decks.

hex_colin
05-01-2014, 11:10 AM
If we are talking "most useful" with the caveat that they are not so easily obtained as to have no value:

S: ???. (I am kind of "meh" on the S rares and legendaries since they are so combo specific. I find Buccaneer to be perhaps the most OP card in the game, but it is a common)

Eldritch Dreamer?

GatticusFinch
05-01-2014, 11:16 AM
Eldritch Dreamer?

That is probably the one that has the most viability in all decks. Most all the rest are either huge cost bomb troops, artifact combos, or mill combos.

Kroan
05-01-2014, 11:17 AM
Angel of Dawn
Vampire King
Eye of Creation
Jadiim
Mastery of Time

GatticusFinch
05-01-2014, 11:24 AM
If you had to ask me right now, based on the cards, where the cash value is going to come from, it will be from what I think will be the cards from the most dominant set 1 constructed decks that everyone will be emulating: Blood control, Blood/Ruby burn, Sapphire control.

High Tomb Lord
Vampire King
Scourge Knight
Ragefire
Te'talca
Mastery of Time

I have not been very impressed with Wild. I recognize some sick combos with a W/B shin'hare deck, but I haven't played against any that my B/R deck couldn't handle and I am missing some of the critical B rares. D/R Inspire might get some play as well.

Yoss
05-01-2014, 11:25 AM
Sold out pre-orders:
Vampire King
Angel of Dawn
Living Totem
Cerulean Mirror Knight
Chronic Madness
Eldritch Dreamer
Mastery of Time
The Ancestors' Chosen

halfwing
05-01-2014, 11:28 AM
Angel of Dawn will sell for the most platinum, but i think Ragefire will sell for the most gold. Its PvE equipment is absolutely amazing. I also think Replicators Gambit will be very high on the list. Its pve gear has it apply to 3 other copies of the selected card that are in your deck.

Mahes
05-01-2014, 11:37 AM
1) Extinction : this card will see the most play for usefulness. This card screams card advantage but a skilled player will know how to play around the advantage.
2) Vampire King : hands down one of the best creatures in the format. I foresee some very good Sapphire/Blood decks with this creature.
3) Angel of Dawn : A 4/4 flyer is nothing to scoff at in this set. I think it will become weaker as more sets release. As powerful as she can be, there are many answers to her that keep her in check.
4) Mastery of Time : Wins games when played right. I like this card because it requires timing and patience.
5) Eldritch Dreamer : A 3/3 unblockable creature that does damage and draws a person a card. If this creature remains out for any period of time, the game quickly shows favor to the player drawing all the cards.

Jadiim got nerfed enough and he shows the same weakness that the Angel possess. He is a great card but not top 5.

Soul Marble is very powerful until a person's side board comes in.

Living totem is awesome in draft/sealed, but not as powerful in constructed. Yes you can build him up, but you use resources to do it, which means you are not casting anything else.

Krond
05-01-2014, 11:39 AM
Angel of Dawn
Vampire King
Eye of Creation
Jadiim
Archmage Wrenlock
Honorable mention - Extinction

All of these cards have appeal to both tournament and casual players. Even though Extinction is only a rare and has 2 printings, it's very powerful and probably the most "staple" rare. It will likely be used forever, fits in lots of decks, and has insane equipment.

ossuary
05-01-2014, 11:44 AM
Wrenlocke is going to be the great enabler of Sapphire control in future sets. Get as many as you can and hold on to those MFs, they will be worth MONEY in 1-2 years. Never underestimate the power of hand replacement.

thereck
05-01-2014, 12:04 PM
without a doubt:
1. Angel of Dawn

if you are making a white deck, you want this card x4 in it. it's an automatic pick, making it probably the most valuable card in the set.

past that
2.eye of creation x4 is basically it's own deck type

3.Zombie Plague for blood sapphire control

4. vampire king, just great

5. mastery of time, win condition

oncewasblind
05-01-2014, 12:10 PM
i think Mastery of Time has been underrated so far, considering the synergy it has with other amazing cards like Archmage Wrenlock and Eldritch Dreamer. Just playing it outright on turn 5 after casting one of those beauties swings card advantage heavily in your favor.

In my opinion, this is an autopick card in every Sapphire deck.

DuroNL
05-01-2014, 12:10 PM
1) Angel of Dawn
2) Vampie king
3) Mastery of Time
4) Extinction
5) Uruunaz

bonus 6) Xentoth Inquisitor :P

Its bot my predicted most valuable list, aswell as a list of cards i find very use full in decks!

oncewasblind
05-02-2014, 10:07 AM
bump cuz I want to hear more thoughts!

Lawlschool
05-02-2014, 10:35 AM
I think people are focused too much on what cards are "good" and not what cards will be most in demand for other reasons.

1) Angel of Dawn (one of the best cards, saw a lot of play in the latest HTCGP tourney)
2) Vampire King (also one of the best cards)
3) Uruunaz (because it's a badass blood dragon)
4) Pack Raptor (because they're badass raptors)
5) Fist of Briggadon / Eye of Creation / Mastery of Time (combination of badassery and usefulness, not sure which will win)

I think there are going to be a fair number of cards that are going to be in high demand simply for the "cool" factor.

the_artic_one
05-02-2014, 10:59 AM
Scourge Knight

That's a PVE card.

My top 5:
Angel of Dawn
Vampire King
Urunaaz
Soul Marble
Cerulean Mirror Knight

FlyingMeatchip
05-02-2014, 11:38 AM
I think people are focused too much on what cards are "good" and not what cards will be most in demand for other reasons.

1) Angel of Dawn (one of the best cards, saw a lot of play in the latest HTCGP tourney)
2) Vampire King (also one of the best cards)
3) Uruunaz (because it's a badass blood dragon)
4) Pack Raptor (because they're badass raptors)
5) Fist of Briggadon / Eye of Creation / Mastery of Time (combination of badassery and usefulness, not sure which will win)

I think there are going to be a fair number of cards that are going to be in high demand simply for the "cool" factor.

Finally someone mentions Uranaaz....Only cause I got 3 now!

oncewasblind
05-02-2014, 12:28 PM
I doubt Uranaaz, only because he's guaranteed in all Dragon's Blood KS starter decks. Now the AA version of him from that is another story, since those will be extremely limited.

Xenavire
05-02-2014, 01:21 PM
I doubt Uranaaz, only because he's guaranteed in all Dragon's Blood KS starter decks. Now the AA version of him from that is another story, since those will be extremely limited.

They starter deck ones are Extended art, the last we heard, not Alternate art. Actually got corrected on that a while back.

oncewasblind
05-02-2014, 02:33 PM
I know, just didn't feel like making the distinction, lol. Since you brought it up, do you think EA and AA will have equivalent value?

Axle
05-02-2014, 02:35 PM
Everyone can get extended art by just playing and getting achievements but you need luck(the gold sink) or rewards (kickstarter/other events) to get alternate art. So nah.

Kilo24
05-02-2014, 02:37 PM
I know, just didn't feel like making the distinction, lol. Since you brought it up, do you think EA and AA will have equivalent value?

They definitely will not. Extended art is something you can get on any card through grinding. AA is a completely different copy of the card. Even if some cards with easy-to-get AAs may have an equivalent value (like, say, the Windborne Acolyte AA from chests), the various influences on the price are going to be far different from eachother.

oncewasblind
05-02-2014, 02:49 PM
Oh nice! I wasn't aware you could make a card EA from achievements, that's pretty sweet.

ossuary
05-02-2014, 03:26 PM
Yep. Filling up the xp bar makes a card foiled, completing the 3 card-specific achievements unlocks its extended art, and alternate art cards are completely separate entities from the original version.

AswanJaguar
05-02-2014, 03:44 PM
The holy grail of cards being, of course, the foiled extended alternate art version of a money legendary card with all double back achievements reached and tournament victory stamps.

Talk about your limited supply.

Quasari
05-02-2014, 04:11 PM
The holy grail of cards being, of course, the foiled extended alternate art version of a money legendary card with all double back achievements reached and tournament victory stamps.

Talk about your limited supply.
OR

A mint AA version of a money legendary after some time has passed and is no longer available.

Axle
05-02-2014, 04:21 PM
replace "money legendary" with "tournament win exclusive prize card"

halfwing
05-02-2014, 05:41 PM
OR

A mint AA version of a money legendary after some time has passed and is no longer available.

I don't think 'mint' will be worth much in this game. I think people will WANT the cards that have status to them.

Quasari
05-02-2014, 05:42 PM
I don't think 'mint' will be worth much in this game. I think people will WANT the cards that have status to them.

For the most part. But perhaps they'll want their name stamped on the card not someone elses.

Mahes
05-04-2014, 04:59 PM
Sigh, now I want a mint...

Poetic
05-04-2014, 05:14 PM
Mint for me, I'll be looking for clean cards when browsing the AH.

maniza
05-04-2014, 06:35 PM
from my limited testing my top

most valuable

1 vampire king: a realy good troop that will be in high demand cause u want at least 3 in ur deck, and will be in limeted suply because its super rare
2 angel of dawn: same as vampire king
3 mastery of time: in my experience this card is a must in most blue decks also has limited suply
4 jadim: a realy good card you will likely want 4 of but i feel that wild and ruby are alittle weaker than the other shards so i rank it lower
5 zoltog: same as jadim

best cards:

1 extintion
2 mastery of time
3 soul marvel
4 vampire king
5 celurian mirror knight

honorable mentions for gore feast, eye of creation for their respective weaker shard.

Osthall
05-04-2014, 09:58 PM
Wrenlocke is going to be the great enabler of Sapphire control in future sets. Get as many as you can and hold on to those MFs, they will be worth MONEY in 1-2 years. Never underestimate the power of hand replacement.
^ This.

Also bear in mind that much like the fabled power nine his utility is proportional to the size of the card pool. He will be banned by set 3 or I'll eat your choice of hat.

Osthall
05-04-2014, 11:23 PM
Also, what's the big hype over Vampire King, am I missing something?

I mean, obviously he's got strong stats (4/4 flyer with lifedrain) but his remaining text seems sort oh "meh" - at least to me. Although I wasn't really active in tracking HEX since the end of the kickstarter, I'm pretty sure his text used to be a lot stronger than it currently is.

In short, he's good, but I'd never go so far as to build a deck around him - tell me what I'm missing here plz :P

LLCoolDave
05-05-2014, 12:25 AM
Also, what's the big hype over Vampire King, am I missing something?

I mean, obviously he's got strong stats (4/4 flyer with lifedrain) but his remaining text seems sort oh "meh" - at least to me. Although I wasn't really active in tracking HEX since the end of the kickstarter, I'm pretty sure his text used to be a lot stronger than it currently is.

In short, he's good, but I'd never go so far as to build a deck around him - tell me what I'm missing here plz :P

The point is that you don't need to build a deck around him. Vampire King is THE quintessential midrange troop in this set. 4 resources four a 3/4 flight troop is a good rate compared to the rest of the set, so he matches up well with most of what he might face off in combat situations, and lifedrain on an evasive creature that wants to attack is a nice bonus for most matchups. He essentially blocks a 3 power attacker on their end without actually having to step in the way and risk the burn spell. He also puts a lot of pressure on troop based decks. Holding back troops increases the chance of you hitting with Vampire King and stealing their card while getting another evasive troop on your side. Playing them all out plays into your removal or extinction as you no longer have the resources to protect them on the board. If you don't hit with it you still get valuable information on their hand.

There's a surprisingly low amount of troops in this set that provide a lot of value without you having to step through hoops to achieve it. Vampire King rewards you for playing exactly the same stuff you would have wanted to play without him anyway. There just isn't anything in the 3 or 4 slot in Set 1 that stands on his own quite as much as this card.

AstaSyneri
05-05-2014, 02:10 AM
IMHO the value will be determined by rarity, hence all cards on my list are legendaries.


Angel of Dawn - no need to discuss this. Decent if you have to pay for it, incredible if you get it for free.
Vampire King - apart from playability he is just plain cool.
Jadiim - no brainer, players love dragons - and while Urunaaz may be in higher demand, he will also be in much higher supply (once the Urunaaz starter becomes available).
Zombie Plague - everbody loves the Zombie Apocalypse, right?
Uruunaz - hey, it's still a cool and powerful dragon!


Runner-Ups:


Mastery of Time
High Tomb Lord
Eye of Creation

Bells
05-05-2014, 05:28 AM
if one of the people that work with a fansite that lists all cards could put up a set-wide pool, that would be awesome...

would be interesting to see what players vote as ''most valuable'' and ''most useful'' in a compiled data format.

hashinshin
05-05-2014, 05:39 AM
Is Uruunaz played in ANY competitive deck?

Vampire king is a 4 drop near win con. Urunaaz is a 7 drop.

Poetic
05-05-2014, 06:46 AM
Probably in a mono blood control deck. I think the limited card pools aren't giving us the full story ATM. We'll see once the 8 man queues are back up.

Bells
05-05-2014, 07:25 AM
Uruunaz is easier to play in dual color decks, i have had some decent sucess with him in Wild Blood decks. I just need to assure the Blood Thresshold and pump the mana with Wild and you can get him early in the table.

Hieronymous
05-05-2014, 07:50 AM
It's interesting how some cards that were in very, very high use early on in Alpha are now sortof forgotten -- I'm thinking especially of Fist of Brig, but a few others also. Partly of course that's because of some indirect nerfs (can't really do a turn 3 fist any more) but I think some of it is just fashion as people moved to newer, shinier toys.

ossuary
05-05-2014, 07:53 AM
It's interesting how some cards that were in very, very high use early on in Alpha are now sortof forgotten -- I'm thinking especially of Fist of Brig, but a few others also. Partly of course that's because of some indirect nerfs (can't really do a turn 3 fist any more) but I think some of it is just fashion as people moved to newer, shinier toys.

The turn 3 Fist was never PARTICULARLY common in the first place, people just acted like it was. It was POSSIBLE, but not exactly easy (6 specific cards out of 10 cards drawn). You can still get them now, too, it just requires one extra card. Either 3 Howling Braves or 2 Howling Braves and a Chloro, instead of just 1 Brave and a Chloro before, in addition to the normal resources. You can also do it with 2 Braves and an Adaptable Infusion Device if you're playing Wild/Diamond (One Eye Open). I've done a turn 3 Fist in my Puck/Eye of Creation deck post all nerfs.

Hieronymous
05-05-2014, 08:29 AM
The turn 3 Fist was never PARTICULARLY common in the first place, people just acted like it was. It was POSSIBLE, but not exactly easy (6 specific cards out of 10 cards drawn). You can still get them now, too, it just requires one extra card. Either 3 Howling Braves or 2 Howling Braves and a Chloro, instead of just 1 Brave and a Chloro before, in addition to the normal resources. You can also do it with 2 Braves and an Adaptable Infusion Device if you're playing Wild/Diamond (One Eye Open). I've done a turn 3 Fist in my Puck/Eye of Creation deck post all nerfs.

Yeah, you're correct. It was never hugely prevalent, it just was the sort of thing that really stuck in the memory when it happened. Still, for a while there, everybody basically considered Fist the "card to counter" -- i.e., you had to make your deck with a counter to a Fist, or else it wasn't considered a "good" deck. As more of the set got released there were more counters (solitary exile, etc) and poor Fisty got de-emphasized.

I have to wonder if a few cards like Angel of Dawn that aren't just similarly "in style" right now. Angel's a great card but weak to removal and the special effect is a wild gamble that won't pay off most of the time if your deck has any significant card-draw effects (which it should!)

Vorpal
05-05-2014, 08:42 AM
I like how the pegasus knight that everyone was complaining about before doesn't even appear on this list. Did it get nerfed or something?

I'm also surprised to see eye of creation show up. I had thought it was borderline useless - apparently it is actually amazing? What sort of decks use it?

ossuary
05-05-2014, 09:06 AM
Everyone forgot Spearcliff Cloud Knight because it was, indeed, just quite good for the cost and not the amazing murderous game-ender everyone at the time screamed.

Eye of Creation is like the exact opposite. It's still on peoples' lists now because they bitched about it all through the end of alpha, when in reality it's been nerfed almost into oblivion (THREE nerfs in total it got, since it was spoiled during the KS campaign). It is still a (very situationally) strong card that can do some serious damage if left unchecked, but what big card that you can dump mana into isn't? A big Life Siphon will kill you way easier than a big Eye of Creation will. The people who still call it deadly are remembering how it used to be, not how it is. It's got potential, sure, but nothing like it used to. Way too random, way to focused, way too much commitment required to use it (and if you don't get ramp, you get screwed).

It's almost like people cry wolf or something. ;) Every single card that is viewed as strong ends up getting people bitching about it being TOO strong, and the cycle of whinging for nerfs continues endlessly. Even now, there's a thread calling for Vampire King to get nerfed (it already got nerfed once). Someone is always dissatisfied with the power level of a card somewhere - probably because their non-interactive deck which wasn't built to take it into account lost to it. Such is life. :p

Vorpal
05-05-2014, 09:16 AM
Yeah Eye of creation was confusing to me in its current state. Sure you can use it to put out big mana cost creatures 'for free'...but you have to get a lot of mana for Eye of creation to even work well.

So maybe instead you'd like to use it to put out tons of little creatures..but you still have to ramp hard for eye of creation to be able to dig through most of your deck, and every ramp/resource card you put in for eye of creation to look at enough cards is one fewer troop card eye of creation will discover...

It seems like there is one hyper specialized deck it would fare decently in and that's it. That's hardly a 'best of pvp' card in my opinion.

the_artic_one
05-05-2014, 10:52 AM
I like how the pegasus knight that everyone was complaining about before doesn't even appear on this list. Did it get nerfed or something?


Most of the commonly used flyers trade with it (corpsefly, thunderbird, specter) or kill it (vampire king, Angel, Jadiim, Living Totem), it's in burn/heatwave range, it's difficult to play turn 3 due to double diamond threshold. It'll probably see more play in future sets when there's more support for white weenie.

hex_colin
05-05-2014, 10:56 AM
Most of the commonly used flyers trade with it (corpsefly, thunderbird, specter) or kill it (vampire king, Angel, Jadiim, Living Totem), it's in burn/heatwave range, it's difficult to play turn 3 due to double diamond threshold. It'll probably see more play in future sets when there's more support for white weenie.

It'll also get stronger as Human/Inspire gets more traction. Perhaps in Set 2... :)

Hieronymous
05-05-2014, 11:42 AM
Yeah Eye of creation was confusing to me in its current state. Sure you can use it to put out big mana cost creatures 'for free'...but you have to get a lot of mana for Eye of creation to even work well.

So maybe instead you'd like to use it to put out tons of little creatures..but you still have to ramp hard for eye of creation to be able to dig through most of your deck, and every ramp/resource card you put in for eye of creation to look at enough cards is one fewer troop card eye of creation will discover...

It seems like there is one hyper specialized deck it would fare decently in and that's it. That's hardly a 'best of pvp' card in my opinion.


If we get more effects that let you put cards on top of your deck in a specific order it could be very powerful, depending. The problem is there are already a lot of effects that discard the top few cards in your opponent's deck, though.

hashinshin
05-05-2014, 01:45 PM
If we get more effects that let you put cards on top of your deck in a specific order it could be very powerful, depending. The problem is there are already a lot of effects that discard the top few cards in your opponent's deck, though.

If a meta game develops around putting cards on the top of your deck/discarding cards from the top of your opponents deck I would be very surprised.

ossuary
05-05-2014, 02:41 PM
Frankly, I'd be surprised if that were ever even a mechanic. It was only a mechanic in MtG because it was necessary based on the physical cards.

LLCoolDave
05-05-2014, 02:45 PM
It's also a rather efficient way to do "slow" tutoring effects like Vampiric Tutor, and Scry is an interesting mechanic in itself as it doesn't grant the reward immediately. Ther certainly is room to play with the top of the deck in an interesting fashion even in Hex.

zadies
05-05-2014, 03:28 PM
There is already a diamond card that let's you top deck from the grave.

Downworld
05-05-2014, 05:03 PM
Vampire king is a 4 drop near win con.

I really want this to be true, but it's not. I have Vampire King in a Blood/Ruby aggro deck, but the ~15 games I've managed to play him, he was the deciding factor in the win maybe once or twice. Lots of people trash "dies to doom blade" logic, but I'm starting to see the merit of it. 90% of the times I managed to play Vampire King, he was disabled or destroyed in short order. If you want to make your opponents burn their removal, there are cheaper ways to do so. Those times when Vampire King wasn't immediately toasted, the 3/4 stats weren't even enough to get by common fliers, or enough to stave off huge threats. Even when Vampire King lands a hit, his ability has no guarantee of being more helpful than a one card peek. Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to take him out of my deck, but he's hardly a guaranteed win when he hits the table. On the other hand, I won tons of games with a simple Burn to the Ground. It's hard to counter and doesn't come with an egregious bulls-eye.

knightofeffect
05-05-2014, 05:21 PM
Every time I read Argus's equipment, I think "How do you not put 4x of them into every PvE deck?". I think Argus could end up being worth a pretty penny.

maniza
05-05-2014, 08:37 PM
at 4 resources there is nothing as dominant as vampire king. and he is cheap enough that you can easly fit 4 in every blood deck, that is why i think he will be the most valuable card. but he is not enough to win games on its own

Hieronymous
05-06-2014, 11:09 AM
Every time I read Argus's equipment, I think "How do you not put 4x of them into every PvE deck?". I think Argus could end up being worth a pretty penny.

The problem with Argus is 1) he's unique and 2) even with the declining cost, he's hard to get into play unless you're running some help, like journeymen technicians or hex engines. He's still a great closer card, though, and works well as removal & a flier in dwarf decks.

Axle
05-06-2014, 11:33 AM
Nah he's talking about an Argus equipped with:
http://hextcg.gamepedia.com/Doomseeker_Boots

Though I wouldn't really talk about equipment now since PVE is so unknown it might have all changed by now.

knightofeffect
05-06-2014, 01:23 PM
Nah he's talking about an Argus equipped with:
http://hextcg.gamepedia.com/Doomseeker_Boots

Though I wouldn't really talk about equipment now since PVE is so unknown it might have all changed by now.

Bingo , and I completely agree with the equipment. The other night I assumed myself by noticing how many peices of spoiled equipment were invalid due to card changes.

Argus's still seems valid though :)