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Luminarion
05-03-2014, 04:03 PM
I know I read somewhere about plans for a pve campaign with gold and card rewards (specifically for pve play mostly?), but are there any other plans to allow progress and improving your card collection without paying?

I really like the game and think it has a lot of potential. I also felt like the booster pricing is ok and I especially love the fair pricing structure that doesn't make us EU players pay some 30%+ surcharge like some other games that I refuse to mention out of disdain.

But after opening my 25 boosters and doing a little math as to how much it would cost me to own a card collection that allows for some decent deck building (the set is really big..), I'm afraid it's more than I'm willing to invest into digital cards at the moment :(


Are there any other plans for some "free to play" elements in the future?

Kilo24
05-03-2014, 04:10 PM
There are. Although the PVE campaign will only directly reward gold and cards/equipment/mercenaries/other things useful in PVE, those can be sold to other players on the Auction House for platinum or gold. You can use platinum to buy booster packs directly.

And even though you can't buy boosters with gold, you can spend gold to spin the Wheels of Fate on chests which will reward PVP cards and extra booster packs, among other things. Presumably this means you'll be able to buy chests from other people for gold so that you can spin for them yourself.

Black_Omega
05-03-2014, 04:12 PM
Not sure on the answer. But through the course of PvE play, you will gain cards (pretty sure they do not transfer over to PvP though). So there is a 'collection' side to the PvE cards that you can acquire.

Once Set 2 comes out, there will be a rush of people buying those cards. Unfortunately, like any CCG/TCG, it costs money to collect and get the cards you want.

Gwaer
05-03-2014, 04:35 PM
Also buying singles on the AH will be the most cost effective way to build decks after the AH is brought online in a couple weeks. Packs will not be the way to go if you want to save some money.

DanTheMeek
05-03-2014, 06:28 PM
CZE and Corey in particular have always been very up front about the fact that PvP is intended to be purely Pay to Play, that if you can get any more PvP cards from PvE, they will be minimal and one time deals, not something you can grind for. The reasoning being, as I recall, that they don't even want to give the illusion that PvP could be free to play other wise it will be viewed differently (aka, more negatively) as it seems you have to grind incessantly to get anywhere and the people who pay have an advantage over you. If you can't progress in PvP at all with out paying, then you just have to accept that if you want to play that mode, you have to pay, and if your not willing to pay, be happy with all the free PvE content you have instead.

Despite this initial stance, recent reveals have caused concerns (for me at least) as apparently you will be able to directly trade platinum for gold and sell PvP cards for gold, so while not directly supported by CZE, there will be a back door way for a free to play player to progress in PvP. Personally I feel this undermines things immenssely and if they are going to allow that, they might as well just throw in the towel and make PvP progressable for free like most other DTCG through daily logins or whatever, but I suppose they're hoping that having the higher ground of "we're not supporting it as free to play, but we're not hindering players from helping each other play with out paying" which is noteworthy, but I fear many free to play players won't care and will still react negatively when they find out how much gold it takes to get PvP cards off the AH and write negative reviews claiming the PvP portion is too much a ridiculous grind fest and unfair to non-payers (even though again, its not technically supposed to be accessibly beyond using a starter deck for non-players).

EntropyBall
05-03-2014, 07:07 PM
Yeah, this comes up very often. Hex PVP is absolutely pay-to-play. They have said many times that to have more than a starter PVP deck you will need to spend money. Hex PVE is completely free to play with no paywalls/timers. Its really like two games that can share cards. There will (eventually) be PVP formats where PVE cards are allowed, but they will be casual formats, and may not be in at release. The other reason that you won't be able to grind PVP cards or platinum is that it will devalue the cards that people are paying money for, and CZE takes the collectible portion of this game very seriously.

In regards to the gold-to-plat conversion, this will be only player-run as Dan said. There will not be a fixed exchange rate, and the currencies will convert at whatever rate people are willing to pay. This was known during the kickstarter though, and is not just a recent change. The fact that this is available does not devalue PVP cards, because all PVP cards and plat are purchased with real money. Once they are bought, it doesn't matter if they are traded for gold, cheese, or pocket lint.

Svenn
05-03-2014, 07:13 PM
CZE and Corey in particular have always been very up front about the fact that PvP is intended to be purely Pay to Play, that if you can get any more PvP cards from PvE, they will be minimal and one time deals, not something you can grind for. The reasoning being, as I recall, that they don't even want to give the illusion that PvP could be free to play other wise it will be viewed differently (aka, more negatively) as it seems you have to grind incessantly to get anywhere and the people who pay have an advantage over you. If you can't progress in PvP at all with out paying, then you just have to accept that if you want to play that mode, you have to pay, and if your not willing to pay, be happy with all the free PvE content you have instead.

Despite this initial stance, recent reveals have caused concerns (for me at least) as apparently you will be able to directly trade platinum for gold and sell PvP cards for gold, so while not directly supported by CZE, there will be a back door way for a free to play player to progress in PvP. Personally I feel this undermines things immenssely and if they are going to allow that, they might as well just throw in the towel and make PvP progressable for free like most other DTCG through daily logins or whatever, but I suppose they're hoping that having the higher ground of "we're not supporting it as free to play, but we're not hindering players from helping each other play with out paying" which is noteworthy, but I fear many free to play players won't care and will still react negatively when they find out how much gold it takes to get PvP cards off the AH and write negative reviews claiming the PvP portion is too much a ridiculous grind fest and unfair to non-payers (even though again, its not technically supposed to be accessibly beyond using a starter deck for non-players).
Dan, that's the way it's always been, not a new revelation. You are able to list cards on the auction house for either currency. That's not a bad thing. PvE players are able to get PvP cards that way... but ONLY from other players. That means the ONLY way for PvP cards to enter is through boosters. That's the important thing.

Think about it this way... if I want to trade my MTG cards to my friend for a hamburger or a video game or something, what's stopping me? That's pretty much the same idea.

The amounts shouldn't be much of a problem either. Commons will be really cheap so PvE players will feel that they'll be able to get those fairly easy. Chase rares/legendaries will be much more expensive/harder to find as it should be. The thing is, most PvE cards will be more powerful anyway so unless they are trying to do PvP it shouldn't even be a big deal to them.

Kami
05-03-2014, 07:17 PM
Commons may be cheap, platinum-wise, but I think that over time, the cost for gold will be much higher as players hoard it and the fact that gold is generated from nothing.

Even with gold sinks, not everyone will use gold sinks unless it becomes mandatory in some way.

Kilo24
05-03-2014, 07:33 PM
Kami:
With the major gold sink letting you get valuable PVP cards via the Wheels of Fate, gold may not be as low-value as you may think. Crypto has made a major link between the two currencies here: unless gold is so plentiful that most chests are spun until they can't be spun any more, it's going to keep gold from too much inflation.

Assuming, of course, that the drop rates will remain somewhat reasonable.

Kami
05-03-2014, 07:49 PM
And to get chests, you need to purchase boosters. If you were to go from a pure PvE farming perspective, it may not be as viable as you think.

Kilo24
05-03-2014, 07:58 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you should also be able to buy chests from other players to roll on (and potentially get more boosters from too). The precise economics are of course difficult to predict, but I don't see the AH costs being so high that using your PVE-farmed gold to roll on chests from other players isn't going to be viable.

DanTheMeek
05-03-2014, 08:22 PM
Dan, that's the way it's always been, not a new revelation. You are able to list cards on the auction house for either currency. That's not a bad thing. PvE players are able to get PvP cards that way... but ONLY from other players. That means the ONLY way for PvP cards to enter is through boosters. That's the important thing.

Think about it this way... if I want to trade my MTG cards to my friend for a hamburger or a video game or something, what's stopping me? That's pretty much the same idea.

The amounts shouldn't be much of a problem either. Commons will be really cheap so PvE players will feel that they'll be able to get those fairly easy. Chase rares/legendaries will be much more expensive/harder to find as it should be. The thing is, most PvE cards will be more powerful anyway so unless they are trying to do PvP it shouldn't even be a big deal to them.

While "recently" may not be entirely accurate depending on your definition of the word, I admit I never knew this was how it was going to be during the kick starter, I remember people asking about it a lot, but getting a lot of "this is something we're still hashing out". Having said that, it has been a while since the kick starter, so its possible I'm just misremembering, or that whenever they did confirm it I missed it, they do have a rather annoying (in my opinion) tendency to release information from all sorts of different sources making in nigh impossible to keep up to date on everything.

Regardless of when this was decided, be it from the start and I missed it or in the last few months, I do still have concerns for it for exactly what I stated previously. I understand why they're doing it, like you stated it makes sense and doing it this way has the benefit that it does not generate any PvP cards, only lets those who paid for it move it to those who didn't, so its not actually hurting the PvP economy... but the fact that you can do it almost certainly will be viewed by some players as an excuse to complain about how much grinding they have to do to buy PvP cards if they don't pay which undermines the initial goal of avoiding these complainers (as much as you can of course) by drawing a line that says, no pay, no play, right from the start.

Also I agree with Kami, I really don't think we can assume commons will be cheap on the gold front, especially after set 1. How much will PvP players really want gold, so far the only thing they need it for is spinning the wheel of fate, but will it really be that hard for them to earn it themselves in PvE? Further, and this is the biggest x-factor I'd say, we don't know how crafting will work (or if it will work) with PvP cards. If crafting can turn extra commons into something useful to a PvP player, it will dramatically reduce the number of sellers, potentially equally dramatically increasing the costs those who do sell ask for or the final bid amounts of bidding wars. If getting enough gold for spinning your wheels is easy for PvP players to do with a little time in PvE on top of them having a reason to want to disenchant their commons for crafting, the number who are rich or lazy enough to give away commons for gold decreases further, and again, even if these guys are willing to start the price at 1 gold, unless its a buy it now price you better expect bidding wars to be fierce.

Lawlschool
05-03-2014, 08:24 PM
And to get chests, you need to purchase boosters. If you were to go from a pure PvE farming perspective, it may not be as viable as you think.

The point about the chests is they make Gold valuable to PvP players, not that they're a source of PvP cards for PvE players. PvP-focused players will want to sell things for Gold or trade Plat for Gold so that they can roll on the chests (which in turn could drop PvE things to sell for more Gold). Basically, there will be a market for PvE-focused players to trade their Gold for Plat/PvP cards.

zadies
05-03-2014, 08:27 PM
Yes but it does encourage pvp only players to put up chase legendaries for the price to spin a legendary chest

Luminarion
05-03-2014, 09:22 PM
Regardless of when this was decided, be it from the start and I missed it or in the last few months, I do still have concerns for it for exactly what I stated previously. I understand why they're doing it, like you stated it makes sense and doing it this way has the benefit that it does not generate any PvP cards, only lets those who paid for it move it to those who didn't, so its not actually hurting the PvP economy... but the fact that you can do it almost certainly will be viewed by some players as an excuse to complain about how much grinding they have to do to buy PvP cards if they don't pay which undermines the initial goal of avoiding these complainers (as much as you can of course) by drawing a line that says, no pay, no play, right from the start.

I don't think this will be of any consequence in the end because as I understand it the game will be appealing to (relatively few) hardcore TCG players who are able and willing to spend huge sums of cash and really love the game. They probably won't care at all about any free to play complains, and I doubt the PvE will be a huge draw to get players new to CCGs to buy into the real PvP game.

Granted we don't know much about the PvE campaign but I get the feeling it's not a big priority and in most DCCGs the PvE campaign is seen as a way to earn cards or resources but PvP is where the fun is at :)

I have yet to see a PvE campaign in a DTCG that was fun on its own aside from games that were specifically made for a single player experience in the first place.

DanTheMeek
05-03-2014, 09:39 PM
I don't think this will be of any consequence in the end because as I understand it the game will be appealing to (relatively few) hardcore TCG players who are able and willing to spend huge sums of cash and really love the game. They probably won't care at all about any free to play complains, and I doubt the PvE will be a huge draw to get players new to CCGs to buy into the real PvP game.

Granted we don't know much about the PvE campaign but I get the feeling it's not a big priority and in most DCCGs the PvE campaign is seen as a way to earn cards or resources but PvP is where the fun is at :)

I have yet to see a PvE campaign in a DTCG that was fun on its own aside from games that were specifically made for a single player experience in the first place.

Yeah... if I'm understanding you right, gonna have to strongly disagree. And by disagree I mean with the fact that PvE is not a big priority and not meant to be a big draw. PvE pretty much IS the reason I backed Hex and was, at least for me (and I know from posts on the forum many other backers) the biggest draw. It was Corey's vision for PvE that made Hex stand out in the sea of DTCGs that all seemed to be hitting at the same time. Corey has stated before the main reason we haven't seen PvE yet is because they wanted to establish the core of the game, the game-play itself, and make sure it was rock solid via PvP (which is nothing but the core gameplay) before putting the primary focus on PvE which will build off that core and expand in numerous non-standard ways. From what I understand they have had people working on PvE this entire time too, but its also an arguably much more massive under taking both do to the fact that from the sound of things nearly every dungeon is going to have a unique twist on the core game play, and the fact that every single card is going to have at least 2 equipment associated with it that will alter the way the card works, so in PvE every card is like 3 cards in 1.

But despite that, Corey has repeatedly assured us that PvE is not only important to them, but that from what he's seen of it so far he actually is concerned that it will be so good, it will hurt PvP play because most players will be addicted to PvE, even ones who are normally PvP exclusive in card games. Whether or not that silver tongued soothe sayer's dream will be realized is still yet to be seen, but if PvE ends up even close to as good as Corey makes it out to be, I think it will absolutely be the PvE that will be what attracts in new players, and then the hard part will be finding ways to convince players to fork out the dough for PvP when they could keep having a blast in PvE for free.

Luminarion
05-03-2014, 10:07 PM
Well then I'll be happy to be proven wrong and surprised here :) There has to be a first for everything and I hope they can pull it off.

I joined not that long ago through the slacker backer and I didn't follow all the interviews and stuff as you guys did... I guess I joined for the wrong reasons but I'm looking forward to the PvE release :)

DanTheMeek
05-03-2014, 10:21 PM
Well then I'll be happy to be proven wrong and surprised here :) There has to be a first for everything and I hope they can pull it off.

I joined not that long ago through the slacker backer and I didn't follow all the interviews and stuff as you guys did... I guess I joined for the wrong reasons but I'm looking forward to the PvE release :)

Hey, don't get me wrong now, the PvE was why I joined and I'm hopeful it will be AMAZING, but I played the heck out of PvP in alpha and it was a blast, so if you joined only for PvP, I think you'll still be happy with Hex. Its not necessarily as revolutionary as PvE is expected to be, but it is a really solid MTGO variation for basically half the price and some cool card effects that simply wouldn't be viable in magic the gathering do to its need to match its physical counter part. There are also quite a few other people on the forum who have either said, or I got the impression from their posts, backed purely for the PvP, so the PvP is still a draw, and you are 100% correct that for most of the DTCG out there the PvP is more or less the only draw, you either love the PvP, or you don't play the game more then a day or two... but again, that's part of what made Hex so appealing to me, it was the first DTCG I'd found that was promising to really put in the effort to put forth a quality PvE experience in conjunction with a PvP experience.

So sorry if I came of as harsh or anything, did not mean to, and I'm very happy to have you as part of the community, whether you only play PvP, PvE, or dabble in both as I probably will.

sukebe
05-04-2014, 12:18 AM
Regardless of when this was decided, be it from the start and I missed it or in the last few months, I do still have concerns for it for exactly what I stated previously. I understand why they're doing it, like you stated it makes sense and doing it this way has the benefit that it does not generate any PvP cards, only lets those who paid for it move it to those who didn't, so its not actually hurting the PvP economy... but the fact that you can do it almost certainly will be viewed by some players as an excuse to complain about how much grinding they have to do to buy PvP cards if they don't pay which undermines the initial goal of avoiding these complainers (as much as you can of course) by drawing a line that says, no pay, no play, right from the start.

Also I agree with Kami, I really don't think we can assume commons will be cheap on the gold front, especially after set 1. How much will PvP players really want gold, so far the only thing they need it for is spinning the wheel of fate, but will it really be that hard for them to earn it themselves in PvE? Further, and this is the biggest x-factor I'd say, we don't know how crafting will work (or if it will work) with PvP cards. If crafting can turn extra commons into something useful to a PvP player, it will dramatically reduce the number of sellers, potentially equally dramatically increasing the costs those who do sell ask for or the final bid amounts of bidding wars. If getting enough gold for spinning your wheels is easy for PvP players to do with a little time in PvE on top of them having a reason to want to disenchant their commons for crafting, the number who are rich or lazy enough to give away commons for gold decreases further, and again, even if these guys are willing to start the price at 1 gold, unless its a buy it now price you better expect bidding wars to be fierce.

I think it is important to mention that while it does open the door to those complainers you mention, it also makes many people considerably happier. Some people do not mind grinding and would be much more upset if they could not (at least theoretically) get any card in the game. No decision will ever make anyone happy but any good decision makes at least some people happy. Which method is better for the game? No idea yet :-) Each side has its outspoken individual who will curse or bless the game with equal vigor depending on the choice.

As for PVP players selling cards for gold: My experience with mmo games tells me this will definitely happen cheaply. Some players will have no interest whatsoever in PVE but still want to open the chests for the chances at rare/legendary cards, sleeves, and more packs. This people will sell commons, uncommons, and junk rares on the AH for whatever will guarantee a quick sale. Opening these chests will suck gold out of the economy. PVP players will then have pve items/cards/ and mercs to sell on the AH, again, probably for whatever will make them sell quickly. Any gold these players get will disappear when they open chests.

I think this method is pretty ingenious, as it leaves the majority of the gold sink in the hands of PVP players while ensuring that those same PVP players have incentive to sell PVP cards to the PVE players for gold.

Xenavire
05-04-2014, 02:46 AM
People who draft a lot will constantly sell commons for gold. They can't go infinite off commons, but opening chests can help them go infinite - they will want gold to squeeze as much value out of the chests as they can.

The_Lannisters
05-04-2014, 05:50 AM
I was a bit confused at first with the whole model but now that ( I think ) I understand it better it'll be fascinating to watch the hexonomics of it all. I must admit I cannot wait for PVE and the AH to be available so we can get the full picture.

ossuary
05-04-2014, 10:01 AM
Yeah... if I'm understanding you right, gonna have to strongly disagree. And by disagree I mean with the fact that PvE is not a big priority and not meant to be a big draw. PvE pretty much IS the reason I backed Hex and was, at least for me (and I know from posts on the forum many other backers) the biggest draw. It was Corey's vision for PvE that made Hex stand out in the sea of DTCGs that all seemed to be hitting at the same time. Corey has stated before the main reason we haven't seen PvE yet is because they wanted to establish the core of the game, the game-play itself, and make sure it was rock solid via PvP (which is nothing but the core gameplay) before putting the primary focus on PvE which will build off that core and expand in numerous non-standard ways. From what I understand they have had people working on PvE this entire time too, but its also an arguably much more massive under taking both do to the fact that from the sound of things nearly every dungeon is going to have a unique twist on the core game play, and the fact that every single card is going to have at least 2 equipment associated with it that will alter the way the card works, so in PvE every card is like 3 cards in 1.

But despite that, Corey has repeatedly assured us that PvE is not only important to them, but that from what he's seen of it so far he actually is concerned that it will be so good, it will hurt PvP play because most players will be addicted to PvE, even ones who are normally PvP exclusive in card games. Whether or not that silver tongued soothe sayer's dream will be realized is still yet to be seen, but if PvE ends up even close to as good as Corey makes it out to be, I think it will absolutely be the PvE that will be what attracts in new players, and then the hard part will be finding ways to convince players to fork out the dough for PvP when they could keep having a blast in PvE for free.

Dan, please stop calling him Corey. He's not in a boy band, he's a grown-ass man (with a strange proclivity for pink - which is fine!). It's CORY. :p

Chance
05-04-2014, 10:37 AM
I can tell you from considerable experience with ingame economies that you'll indeed be able to play for free but you will not ever be modern. The price for budget decks will be gold and constructed will be about 7-10% over what it costs to go infinite. People who will want to dedicate days hoveled over blue lit screens making excel pages and finance tier lists will make it so. Dont blame companies for the folly of neckbeards (including myself)

Kami
05-04-2014, 10:45 AM
Yes but it does encourage pvp only players to put up chase legendaries for the price to spin a legendary chest

I agree but my point is that the amount of gold you would need would be increasingly substantial.

There is no PvP player who would want to shortchange themselves if they can get as much gold as possible when selling it. The more valuable gold becomes, the more people will hoard it and therefore sell things for a higher amount of gold. The more value gold has, the more people will want of it and prices will go up.

This means that unless it is very easy to earn gold or inflation is kept in check, if you were playing from a purely PvE perspective, you would need to farm how much gold to purchase cards, boosters, chests, etc. from players?

sukebe
05-04-2014, 04:05 PM
I agree but my point is that the amount of gold you would need would be increasingly substantial.

There is no PvP player who would want to shortchange themselves if they can get as much gold as possible when selling it. The more valuable gold becomes, the more people will hoard it and therefore sell things for a higher amount of gold. The more value gold has, the more people will want of it and prices will go up.

This means that unless it is very easy to earn gold or inflation is kept in check, if you were playing from a purely PvE perspective, you would need to farm how much gold to purchase cards, boosters, chests, etc. from players?

This will certainly happen but it will be limited the same way all prices are: It will only go as high as people are willing to pay. Sellers will always want as much as they can get and buyers will always pay as little as they can. For a while, the prices will be hectic, and after that there will always be people selling for more than something is worth.

Also, I think you are underestimating the impatience of gamers. If this is anything like other MMO games then there will be shortage of people undercutting each other in effort to sell something fast. For every person willing to be patient and sell for what an item is worth there seems to be 10+ people willing to sell for 1/3rd or even 1/2 the price so they can sell it faster.

Werlix
05-04-2014, 04:26 PM
I don't think this will be of any consequence in the end because as I understand it the game will be appealing to (relatively few) hardcore TCG players who are able and willing to spend huge sums of cash and really love the game. They probably won't care at all about any free to play complains, and I doubt the PvE will be a huge draw to get players new to CCGs to buy into the real PvP game.

Granted we don't know much about the PvE campaign but I get the feeling it's not a big priority and in most DCCGs the PvE campaign is seen as a way to earn cards or resources but PvP is where the fun is at :)

I have yet to see a PvE campaign in a DTCG that was fun on its own aside from games that were specifically made for a single player experience in the first place.

For a bit of talk from Cory himself about the importance of PvE, try this http://coryhudsonjones.tumblr.com/post/83645967847/hex-beta-is-almost-here

Diesbudt
05-04-2014, 04:47 PM
Summary:

It has been decided from the start that cards could be sold on the Ah for platinum or gold. Players selling cards for gold was always intended, as gold sinks will be everywhere even so in PvP packs as you get chests that only open by spending gold. However, how long it takes to earn said gold for some rares and legendaries you want? May take days, weeks or months. Look at LoL. You can play and earn IP and after maybe 30-40 hours of playing and using up as many daily bonuses you can buy 1 of the top tier champions. Or put $5 in and get them in 2 minutes.

The reality is though? It will probably be more than infeasible to obtain more than say 40-50% of a deck via gold in a time someone could consider ok.

ossuary
05-04-2014, 07:21 PM
You don't need gold to open the chests, you need gold to spin the Wheels of Fate for a chance to make them better chests.

AstaSyneri
05-05-2014, 03:07 AM
Really? Somebody being surprised a TCG actually costs money? Basically I hate the presumption that the PvE part is going to be entirely Free to Play. I expect that having a substantial collection of PvP cards will give you a huge head start when hunting loot in dungeons and planning to go on raids.

TCGs are not the cheapest of hobbies, everything else would be a lie. But neither is golfing, horseriding, sailing or driving motorized vehicles in competition. Compare it with the amount of hours you spend on it having fun, and it all balances out.

My most favorite solution. If everybody would spend the time working even in a minimal wage job instead of bitching on the forums, many of them would have the money they bitch about not wanting to spend on cards.

[cranky mode off]

Luminarion
05-05-2014, 05:46 AM
Really? Somebody being surprised a TCG actually costs money? Basically I hate the presumption that the PvE part is going to be entirely Free to Play. I expect that having a substantial collection of PvP cards will give you a huge head start when hunting loot in dungeons and planning to go on raids.

TCGs are not the cheapest of hobbies, everything else would be a lie. But neither is golfing, horseriding, sailing or driving motorized vehicles in competition. Compare it with the amount of hours you spend on it having fun, and it all balances out.

My most favorite solution. If everybody would spend the time working even in a minimal wage job instead of bitching on the forums, many of them would have the money they bitch about not wanting to spend on cards.

[cranky mode off]


Well excuse me that I'm looking for a DTCG that I can actually afford to play.

And no, you can't afford TCGs even at half the cost of mtg on a minimum wage job unless you have no family, live in a 40m apartment and playing that TCG is the only thing you ever do in your free time.

But I'm gonna ignore such comments in the future, most of the community here is actually very nice and I don't want to get dragged down to that level thank you.

AstaSyneri
05-05-2014, 06:13 AM
Well excuse me that I'm looking for a DTCG that I can actually afford to play.

And no, you can't afford TCGs even at half the cost of mtg on a minimum wage job unless you have no family, live in a 40m apartment and playing that TCG is the only thing you ever do in your free time.

But I'm gonna ignore such comments in the future, most of the community here is actually very nice and I don't want to get dragged down to that level thank you.

Ah, the power of exaggeration. It's sure to alienate somebody.

The point is: There are hobbies that cost money, a lot of money. If you want to be a competitor in the Speedboating circuit, you better bring some bling.

Good TCGs like Hex cost money to play competitively. It's the nature of the beast. You can always hitch a ride and work yourself up, you can bet on a single horse and get a deck by buying single cards. There are short cuts like that. That would mean an immense investment of time rather than money, and be quite skill dependant. In the end it's an economical question: Is your time better spent trying to save money on the card game you want to play, or is it easier to go work and spend that "extra" money on the cards you want to have?

Now that is if you play competitive PvP.

CZE is ('will be' would be more appropriate, I guess) offering a mode where you can play against an AI and win stuff to keep playing. It's already fun to play against the AI, so there is your non-competitive mode and I very much look forward to that.

Just don't expect to compete with good players who do have access to the cards they need (having "all the cards" doesn't make one a good player, of course).

So to stay in the image selected above - maybe if the Speedboating circuit is out of your range (figuratively speaking, not meaning you, Luminarion, personally), may this will be better (http://www.amazon.com/Storm-Engine-PX-16-Racing-RC/dp/B002AR65QE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1399295272&sr=8-2&keywords=speed+boat). Or even this one (http://www.amazon.com/PLAYMOBIL%C2%AE-4862-Playmobil-Speed-Boat/dp/B0032OAQKU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1399295272&sr=8-3&keywords=speed+boat).

At least that's my price range after having backed Hex so heavily, I have to admit (and my kids would probably enjoy the latter the most) ;-).

Thrawn
05-05-2014, 06:26 AM
And no, you can't afford TCGs even at half the cost of mtg on a minimum wage job unless you have no family, live in a 40m apartment and playing that TCG is the only thing you ever do in your free time.

"Can't play" and "Can't play tier one decks in major tournaments" are two very different things.

I still play Magic, but I've put hardly any money into it for years. I don't have to build a $1,000 Modern deck to still enjoy playing the game.

zadies
05-06-2014, 06:00 AM
If you can make half of a tier one deck in a reasonable amount of time through pve without some kind of gold boost which would take you out of the free to play realm I'd be surprised. But getting one or two cards you really want would be what I'd expect.

wolzarg
05-06-2014, 10:36 AM
If you can make half of a tier one deck in a reasonable amount of time through pve without some kind of gold boost which would take you out of the free to play realm I'd be surprised. But getting one or two cards you really want would be what I'd expect.

Lets be honest building half a tier one deck should be no problem and its not like you need the legendary cards to win. They just up those last few percentage units to get you from playing with a chance to go far to playing with a realistic chance to go far. I would be deeply surprised if i couldn't make a deck for less than 10 that still has a 3-35% chance to win compare to tier one which is generally just above 50%. So say you bring that deck to the VIP monthly which lets be honest most people should be able to afford since you could probably sell the boosters and make "money" based on current calculations. There will be others with bad decks in those so your chance of going far goes up. Now suddenly you have a realistic chance to get to the top and win some decent prizes with a cheap deck.