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View Full Version : Why the lack of female champions?



Auralie
05-04-2014, 06:22 PM
This game looks amazing and I'm really excited to try it out, but I noticed something while looking through the champion list--there are only two women (Lady Elizabeth Stewart and Poca... which both look really manly). There is also a severe lack of cute creature champ cards (Shin'Hare aren't that cute).

This may be subjective, but it's rare to see a complete lack of pretty champions in a game. I'm not asking for every champ to be frilly and cute, but even just one or two with art catered more to the female persuasion would be sufficient. The game is filled with burly dudes, orcs, and dwarves. The only thing that comes even close to filling this need is the Shin'hare.

This may seem like a trivial matter to some, and I'm sure I'll enjoy the game either way, but adding some more styles of art may help diversify the community. I know I'd definitely be happier playing a lovely enchantress or something with more appealing artwork. An example of something I find to be great is Lady Cassandra. Why can't she (or characters like her) be a champion. This is the type of art i'm looking for.

Edit: Also, Heart of Fire and alternate art Princess Victoria are nice.

:o

IndigoShade
05-04-2014, 06:56 PM
I almost feel like I'm walking into a trap even joining this conversation, but I agree with you. I too would like to see some art with .. eh, some more feminine touch. Not just more cutesy stuff (Worker Bot!), but women that are feminine yet still badass. (Ruby Pyro & Enchantress come to mind).

Auralie
05-04-2014, 07:04 PM
I almost feel like I'm walking into a trap even joining this conversation.

That's how I felt about posting this at all, lol. I just felt like I needed to bring up the fact that there IS a demand for this sort of thing.


Ruby Pyro & Enchantress come to mind.

Yes! Exactly like that! Thanks for the great examples.

Bells
05-04-2014, 07:59 PM
We don't have to be overly worried about this issue guys... it's natural thing to ask... what's with the sausage fest?

No, seriously though... cool female characters are just as welcomed as any cool Champion. I would love to see more diversity, not just titillation.... but actually cool designs and cool cards too.

Patrigan
05-04-2014, 09:18 PM
What about Monika'shin? The name sounds female!

When one races is only men and one race is difficult to see gender, then yeah, it's not easy to have many females. I also wonder about female dwarves and coyotles. Have we seen any already?

Auralie
05-04-2014, 09:46 PM
What about Monika'shin? The name sounds female!

Yeah, I covered the Shin'hare under "creatures" instead of "female". It may very well be a girl, but it just doesn't have the sort of appeal that I'm after. That's the point I'm trying to get across in this thread.

Arbiter
05-04-2014, 10:46 PM
What about Monika'shin? The name sounds female!

When one races is only men and one race is difficult to see gender, then yeah, it's not easy to have many females. I also wonder about female dwarves and coyotles. Have we seen any already?
Dwarves are a male only race also.

Patrigan
05-04-2014, 11:00 PM
Dwarves are a male only race also.

Right forgot about that!

So two male only races and two "creature races". that's 4 races with females. Really lessens the number of expected females.

AstaSyneri
05-05-2014, 12:36 AM
Ah, is this going to deteriorate into another Chainmail Bikini discussion? ;-)

In my experience operating out of the US, companies are very careful about what Americans consider "decent" (Europeans have a different set of sensibilities, as an American friend once explained: For Europeans bare breasts are nothing inherently bad, while bearing arms and killing people with them is, for Americans sometimes it seems to be the other way around).

Looking for a suitable "pin-up girl" for our intra-guild Bette May Double D Cup (http://unnamed-council.com/home/m/13854160/article/2280588) I found many pictures from a Japanese company (Applibot) who apparently have a Japanese style CCG for mobiles: Legends of the Cryptid.

1766

I doubt that we'll find images like theirs in Hex any time soon ;-).

Go to Alex Negrea's deviantArt gallery (http://alexnegrea.deviantart.com/gallery/) for some fine examples. :D

Axle
05-05-2014, 12:44 AM
Wait...

Polonius and Nin aren't female? Weird. I was so sure they were this whole time.

sukebe
05-05-2014, 01:31 AM
Ah, is this going to deteriorate into another Chainmail Bikini discussion? ;-)

In my experience operating out of the US, companies are very careful about what Americans consider "decent" (Europeans have a different set of sensibilities, as an American friend once explained: For Europeans bare breasts are nothing inherently bad, while bearing arms and killing people with them is, for Americans sometimes it seems to be the other way around).

Looking for a suitable "pin-up girl" for our intra-guild Bette May Double D Cup (http://unnamed-council.com/home/m/13854160/article/2280588) I found many pictures from a Japanese company (Applibot) who apparently have a Japanese style CCG for mobiles: Legends of the Cryptid.

1766

I doubt that we'll find images like theirs in Hex any time soon ;-).

Go to Alex Negrea's deviantArt gallery (http://alexnegrea.deviantart.com/gallery/) for some fine examples. :D

It is definitely the opposite in America. Violence and killing is fine but beware the corrupting and dangerous influence of the nipple :)

On Topic: I too would like to see more females, though I think having some with small or at least average sized breasts would be a nice change of pace. So far all the females have been rather top heavy (except the bunny girls, which I think hardly count)

Auralie
05-05-2014, 01:37 AM
Ah, is this going to deteriorate into another Chainmail Bikini discussion? ;-)

Nono, definitely not. Females can be pretty without being sexy. "Busty babes" isn't the point of this thread. Strong, pretty women are. There are many examples in the game already and they were pointed out earlier (Lady Cassandra being my favorite one). All I want is to be happy playing a game without having to play a burly orc man. This doesn't mean we need pin-up girls. I feel like there should be a diverse selection of champions to play, and this is one that isn't there yet.

Bluekite
05-05-2014, 01:42 AM
Ah, is this going to deteriorate into another Chainmail Bikini discussion? ;-)

In my experience operating out of the US, companies are very careful about what Americans consider "decent" (Europeans have a different set of sensibilities, as an American friend once explained: For Europeans bare breasts are nothing inherently bad, while bearing arms and killing people with them is, for Americans sometimes it seems to be the other way around).

Looking for a suitable "pin-up girl" for our intra-guild Bette May Double D Cup (http://unnamed-council.com/home/m/13854160/article/2280588) I found many pictures from a Japanese company (Applibot) who apparently have a Japanese style CCG for mobiles: Legends of the Cryptid.

1766

I doubt that we'll find images like theirs in Hex any time soon ;-).

Go to Alex Negrea's deviantArt gallery (http://alexnegrea.deviantart.com/gallery/) for some fine examples. :D

I don't think chainmail binkini was the point of this thread. The examples that the OP gave are all interesting and beautiful card arts that does not distastefully objectify the gender. I too would like to see something along the line of those examples listed as potential new champions as well.

AstaSyneri
05-05-2014, 02:31 AM
Ah, sorry if I somewhat derailed the thread. So, you'd rather see something like this (different card game, of course):

1767 1768 1769

I also found a harmless little article (http://dungeonsandcaverns.blogspot.de/2013/04/the-problem-with-women-in-fantasy-art.html). I love the picture with the girl being peppered by arrows, because she is wearing non-sensical armor. :D

Fateanomaly
05-05-2014, 07:51 AM
Considering how ugly the normal Princess Victoria look, I think this game need less females.

Lonenut
05-05-2014, 09:17 AM
Ah, sorry if I somewhat derailed the thread. So, you'd rather see something like this (different card game, of course):

1767 1768 1769

I also found a harmless little article (http://dungeonsandcaverns.blogspot.de/2013/04/the-problem-with-women-in-fantasy-art.html). I love the picture with the girl being peppered by arrows, because she is wearing non-sensical armor. :D

This just makes me miss Warlord. :(

Not addressing the art at all, just the card format. Loved that game.

Scammanator
05-05-2014, 09:21 AM
I'm curious about the actual spread of the available champions and the available genders, so I'm just going to make a list here without knowing the results before hand. For each champion I'll write the gender, the certainty of that gender, as well as how masculine or feminine the character is in appearance (since what the OP seems to be asking for is a wider variety of feminine champions, rather than simply female champions). I'm leaving out Vennen and Dwarf champions, since they are masculine by design and naturally tip the statistics out of balance.

Humans:

Lady Elizabeth: Definitively Female, Moderately Feminine

Lionel Flynn: Definitively Male, Dashingly Masculine (That Mustache!)

Palamedes: Almost Certainly Male, Fairly Masculine (Broad Shoulders, Wide Jaw)

Orcs:

Poca, the Conflagrater: Definitively Female, *Mix of Strong Masculine and Feminine Traits

Tetzot, Son of Omoc: Definitively Male, Moderately Masculine

Kranok: Definitvely Male, Extremely Masculine

Elf:

Polonius: Almost Certainly Male (Named After a Male Character in Shakespeare), Androgynous

Coyotle:

Running Deer: Almost Certainly Male, Moderately Masculine (Beard-shaped Fur)

Feather Drifting Downriver: Probably Male, Mildly Masculine

One-Eye Open: Probably Female, Mildly Feminine

Necrotic:

Nin the Shadow: Uncertain Gender (Probably Male Based on Previous Art), Androgynous

Dimmid: Definitively Male, Moderately Masculine (Male-Pattern Baldness)

Gozzog: Almost Certainly Male, Strong Masculine Silhouette

Shin'hare:

Kishimoto: Uncertain Gender (Possibly Female Based on Cleric Class), Androgynous

Monika'shin: Probably Female, Mildly Feminine

Bunjitsu: Probably Male, Mildly Masculine


Total:
Male: 10
Female: 4
Uncertain: 2

Masculine: *8
Feminine: *2
Androgynous or Mild: 7

*I am counting Poca for both categories, although I acknowledge her masculine traits are much more subjective that her feminine ones.

Vorpal
05-05-2014, 09:33 AM
I have been seriously underwhelmed by the female art in this game. The 'Princess Cory' card in particular looks far too masculine.

Vorpal
05-05-2014, 09:38 AM
But more seriously, I don't think poca or elizabeth (or the admanthian elite) look 'manly'. Unless we are using 'manly' to mean 'they are wearing manly clothes and not feminine/revealing/skimpy' clothes.

There's always been a weird strain of victorianism (thanks, Puritans!) in American life that excuses the most grotesque excesses of blood, gore, and violence, but takes to the fainting couch at the slightest hint of artwork portraying females in less than head to toe coverings. So be careful what you ask for :D

My stance is to give people options and let them play what they want and not judge them for their personal tastes. Do you want to play a massive muscled barbarian wearing only a few scraps of fur and the skulls of slain enemies? Go for it, male and female versions please. Do you want to play a towering knight, clad head to toe in the finest of metals, not a scrap of vulnerable flesh showing? Go for it, male and female versions please. I want my games to have both Brienne of Tarth and Xena Warrior Princess in them, not just one or the other.

Loregoyle
05-05-2014, 10:11 AM
Polonius is male.

Nin the Shadow and Monika'shin are female.

Also bear in mind that when you create your PVE champions, there will be male and female portraits available for each race/class combination (except dwarves and vennen).

Auralie
05-05-2014, 11:15 AM
Polonius is male.

Nin the Shadow and Monika'shin are female.

Also bear in mind that when you create your PVE champions, there will be male and female portraits available for each race/class combination (except dwarves and vennen).

I think the fact that people were having a hard time figuring out that they're female validates my point :p. Lionel Flynn is arguably prettier than the female champs.

I understand that we'll have the option to create our own champion in PvE, but that's only half the game.

We have attractive and manly male champions, dashingly pretty male champs, some great strong and rugged females (missing from a lot of games, so you guys did a great job there), but no spot for a feminine champion. It would just be nice to have the option :).

hex_colin
05-05-2014, 11:25 AM
I'm not sure it's worth worrying about. There are likely to be new ones with every Set/Block. I'm sure everyone will get what they want at some point in time.

Also, there is likely a large subset of people who only see a charge power anyway - the name/gender/artwork for the champion is largely insignificant.

Scammanator
05-05-2014, 11:31 AM
Polonius is male.

Nin the Shadow and Monika'shin are female.

Also bear in mind that when you create your PVE champions, there will be male and female portraits available for each race/class combination (except dwarves and vennen).

Thanks for the clarification, Loregoyle!

Yeah, I'm looking forward to being able to create a good mix of champions in the PvE portion of the game. The previews in the art book look amazing.

I suppose we're just discussing whether there's a diversity shortage with the current selection of PvP champions. It looks like females are outnumbered two-to-one, even when ruling out the mono-gender races. This isn't terrible by fantasy-genre standards, but understandably contributes to the OP's feeling of not being able to play the sort of character they want to play.

Although, I'd expect the more feminine-looking characters will be most plentiful among the elves, of which there is only one in this set of Champions. So I'd bet people can certainly look forward to being able to play a female elf in the next set of champions.

Auralie
05-05-2014, 01:29 PM
I'm not sure it's worth worrying about. There are likely to be new ones with every Set/Block. I'm sure everyone will get what they want at some point in time.

Yes, definitely. I'm going to enjoy this game either way. I'm just bringing up the subject so it can hopefully be considered for the future.

wolzarg
05-05-2014, 05:32 PM
This is unacceptable i demand androgynous dwarfs. :P

Clawdius
05-05-2014, 06:52 PM
I'm inclined to hope that in addition to unlocks to get additional art for various cards we'll see something similar for the Champions. Winning a certain number of matches with various champions could, at least at some point in the future, unlock additional art options for the champions. This would allow for more of a sense of customization so when you see someones champion you learn a bit about them other than that they wanted a specific charge power.

And that is if the PVE Mercenaries aren't able to be applied as the art for your PVP champions, with the skill modified from PVE to the PVP flavor charge power of your choice. I'd be uncertain whether they would allow that across race lines or shard lines, but it's an interesting concept and I imagine it has crossed the mind of someone at Cryptozoic. Exactly what we're able to unlock via PVE that we can use in PVP remains to be seen, but I'd like to think that we'll be able to acquire enough new art to have everyone be able to customize their decks to what they would like. It would be a bit depressing for newcomers to the game that they could never, for example, have Cardboard Tube Samurai as their champion. But the potential gain to allow players to use the art they want for their champions and not just have them tied to a specific character based entirely on their charge power seems to be a reasonable trade. After all, there are a great many deck sleeves and alternate art assets out there that will only be in the hands of Kickstarter backers, and the pool of mercenaries and even champions will continue to grow.

Whether it is through unlocks based off of use, through additional assets, or utilizing extant art assets I'm sure we'll see some flavor of champion customization in the future.