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Axle
05-06-2014, 12:07 PM
it begins

bojanglesz
05-06-2014, 12:07 PM
I'm wet

Poetic
05-06-2014, 12:09 PM
Hope they stay up long enough for me to get at least one draft in today. Will be staring down that clock at work.

The_Lannisters
05-06-2014, 12:12 PM
Amen

Stopsight
05-06-2014, 12:18 PM
30 minutes if class left it is painful

nicosharp
05-06-2014, 12:19 PM
Boo... damn this thing called job.

ThrawnOmega
05-06-2014, 12:20 PM
Wish I hadn't checked the forums... Stuck in the office for 3 more hours. Maybe I can duck out a bit early...

mightygerm
05-06-2014, 12:21 PM
Everything is super super slow right now. Some drafts are at the pick screen but with no cards.

Xenavire
05-06-2014, 12:21 PM
Well, queues are taking forever due to flooding, so you wouldn't be missing much - we are all being hypnotized by the god-circle.

Khazrakh
05-06-2014, 12:24 PM
Well, queues are taking forever due to flooding, so you wouldn't be missing much - we are all being hypnotized by the god-circle.

Sitting in the card selection screen but no cards showing up... You don't miss much ;-)

Poetic
05-06-2014, 12:24 PM
True, we'll let y'all suffer it out and swoop in with the smooth gameplay later.

jtatta
05-06-2014, 12:25 PM
I'm watching streamers try to stream drafts and they're staring at the lobby for ~10 minutes before even being entered into the draft. After that they wait another ~10 minutes to see any cards lol.

Like others are saying, the servers are getting crushed.

- John

Poetic
05-06-2014, 12:26 PM
Sounds about what is expected lol

wasichu
05-06-2014, 12:26 PM
Heck when ya keep us from water in the desert of course its gonna be flooded.

So I guess its confirmed they are up. Awesome. Now I wonder if I can get off early and they still be up by the time I get home.

Yoss
05-06-2014, 12:27 PM
Yay load testing...

Bets on when it crashes out?

bojanglesz
05-06-2014, 12:29 PM
Well CZE tried, I guess

wasichu
05-06-2014, 12:29 PM
You would think in a day with quad core processors and elite motherboards servers would be able to handle things. It seems all mmo's have hell handling an influx of players. I have never understood that side of the gaming world. (the servers side that is)

AdamAoE2
05-06-2014, 12:30 PM
Hopefully they are still running and functional when I get home from work. =)

Yoss
05-06-2014, 12:32 PM
You would think in a day with quad core processors and elite motherboards servers would be able to handle things. It seems all mmo's have hell handling an influx of players. I have never understood that side of the gaming world. (the servers side that is)

Yeah, it seems odd that a game with potential to have hundreds of thousands of concurrent users eventually (during a Convention, say) is dying under the load of a few thousand.

GatticusFinch
05-06-2014, 12:44 PM
Is sealed up or just draft? Seems like most people are stalling out or something.

Torchedqwe
05-06-2014, 12:45 PM
Stuck in window to pick cards, but no cards :( fingers crossed tourney 10310

drachenfells
05-06-2014, 12:48 PM
Stuck in window to pick cards, but no cards :( fingers crossed tourney 10310

Same thing with me, im in 10311.

Serax
05-06-2014, 12:52 PM
Well you guys got farther than me, I can't even successfully make it into a queue.

drachenfells
05-06-2014, 12:52 PM
And I am in :)

WabukiSensei
05-06-2014, 12:54 PM
You would think in a day with quad core processors and elite motherboards servers would be able to handle things. It seems all mmo's have hell handling an influx of players. I have never understood that side of the gaming world. (the servers side that is)

From what limited reading I have done about this, it seems like most software today are not designed to take advantage of the features of quad core processing, either that or they haven't caught up yet. Could just be me though.

Xenavire
05-06-2014, 12:55 PM
Well, I failed to queue 4 times in a row, currently trying for the 5th time. I suspect I will not be drafting tonight...

EDIT: Five for five.

Quasari
05-06-2014, 12:57 PM
As long as the server chugs along, I wouldn't expect the long load times in the near future. I'm sure the highest sever load per queue is the start of the draft, so large number of queues starting at the same time, should cause some lag. If it survives this, it should not have as many concurrent queues starting at the same time again.

nicosharp
05-06-2014, 12:57 PM
Damn middleware!

Poetic
05-06-2014, 12:57 PM
Any way to tell how many people are in tournaments or queuing?

Tinuvas
05-06-2014, 12:59 PM
My guess is that CZE is not wasting this opportunity to throttle the processing power down to squeeze out some more bugs. Burn the servers down boys and girls! It's for a noble cause!

mightygerm
05-06-2014, 01:00 PM
I successfully did a picks portion, lets see if its stable in games.

Yoss
05-06-2014, 01:02 PM
As long as the server chugs along, I wouldn't expect the long load times in the near future. I'm sure the highest sever load per queue is the start of the draft, so large number of queues starting at the same time, should cause some lag. If it survives this, it should not have as many concurrent queues starting at the same time again.

I'm thinking GenCon could be far, far worse than today as far as server load, and there will be a lot more at stake since there are limited-time rewards during that time. This is only Closed Beta. The live game could have 10x as many players easily.

ossuary
05-06-2014, 01:02 PM
You would think in a day with quad core processors and elite motherboards servers would be able to handle things. It seems all mmo's have hell handling an influx of players. I have never understood that side of the gaming world. (the servers side that is)

This is the eternal problem with online games, and one I'm well familiar with (I used to work for a company building an MMO, back in those bygone days before WoW was a thing). The real issue is that at launch, you will have somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-100 times (and sometimes as much as 500x, depending on popularity / anticipation!) your "expected" population of concurrent users on a "normal" day. That uses an unbelievable amount of resources, almost independent of how much actual data from traffic is being generated.

So you have to decide: do you build servers that can withstand 100 times your daily traffic numbers, which will sit completely idle most of the time? Or do you build servers that can hold about 5-10x your normal capacity, and deal with slow connections, packet loss, or login queues? For cost reasons, companies ALWAYS choose the latter. It's ridiculous to expect a company to eat the costs of running servers (and bandwidth, and throughput) at an exponentially higher factor than they actually require, just because the lookie-loos come out once every few months.

Certain modern innovations can help to mitigate this (in particular, automatic load balancing and cloud-based server farms), but it's still a problem, and it takes a lot of time and effort to get the bandwidth and throughput dialed in just right to handle your actual load, and adapt quickly and intelligently to changes in traffic patterns. CCP is probably better at this than any other online game company on the planet (their servers can handle 100K concurrent users on a single world shard - they don't segment their population at all), but that is done by clever tricks of zoning (limiting how many players are in a single region at a time, so the load on any one box is minimized), and time dilation (when a zone has too many people in it, time slows down up to 90% normal time, to give everyone time to queue commands and have them execute in sequence instead of everyone just lagging out).

There's a lot that can be done at the coding level, too. Erlang isn't really understood by very many people, even though it's been around since the 80's, but certain online high volume websites have started to use it on the backend with very positive results. I think we'll probably see a lot more game companies move to this language for their backend in the next 10 years, as more and more developers grow up learning it.

Long story short (too late), getting traffic for online games just right is HARD. It's way more complicated than most people think it is... and little inefficiencies in the code itself, the throughput, or even the relays between servers can cause catastrophic degradation of functionality. Give them time... they'll continue to make improvements, I'm sure. I'm also willing to bet GameForge underestimated their own bandwidth needs, and they'll need to make some adjustments on their end as well as CZE continuing to work on the code.

Yoss
05-06-2014, 01:05 PM
So oss, how would you deal with known surges (patch day for new content, conventions, etc)?

GatticusFinch
05-06-2014, 01:06 PM
Don't we have some pretty good platforms these days to deal with dynamic load? Microsoft Azure gets pretty good reviews, for one.

Redbeastmage
05-06-2014, 01:09 PM
OMG, i just got home with my new ps vita!

...notices tournaments are up...throws box across room

MUST. LOG. IN.

GatticusFinch
05-06-2014, 01:09 PM
BTW: Datadragon just said in a stream that the issue is not server load, but something else.

Xenavire
05-06-2014, 01:14 PM
BTW: Datadragon just said in a stream that the issue is not server load, but something else.

Yeah, the servers are strong enough, apparently, its a software issue. I am guessing it is still a load issue, just not one that is caused by the server.

Poetic
05-06-2014, 01:16 PM
Bummer. Not feeling good about my chances to draft tonight.

Dynimix
05-06-2014, 01:20 PM
Ugh...would like to be playing right now. Look forward to jumping into one tonight and letting you all crush me...I really suck but I am learning.

Svenn
05-06-2014, 01:20 PM
Yeah, the servers are strong enough, apparently, its a software issue. I am guessing it is still a load issue, just not one that is caused by the server.

A Hex software issue or still middleware?

Also, I'm hoping for something that could be fixed by a quick hotfix... but I'm not holding my breath. >_<

Poetic
05-06-2014, 01:21 PM
Ugh...would like to be playing right now. Look forward to jumping into one tonight and letting you all crush me...I really suck but I am learning.

As long as you have fun. You'll get better with practice and watching others.

bojanglesz
05-06-2014, 01:27 PM
So are they still up or have they been taken down yet?

IndigoShade
05-06-2014, 01:28 PM
Unless you're feeling up to spending 3 hours joining a queue and then having it time out only to have to re-queue again and again, I would suggest waiting until later to try playing. Things are a complete mess atm.

drachenfells
05-06-2014, 01:28 PM
So are they still up or have they been taken down yet?

Still up. Just finished building my deck.

Dynimix
05-06-2014, 01:30 PM
Ok, will just wait then until late tonight (US time) and try and get in one.

Serax
05-06-2014, 01:30 PM
Still up, picking cards right now

GatticusFinch
05-06-2014, 01:32 PM
This dude streaming has been stuck in between first and second game of his match for a long time now, even though he got into his game pretty quickly.

Hexmage
05-06-2014, 01:35 PM
And they took down the tournament server again.

Axle
05-06-2014, 01:36 PM
it ends

Guap
05-06-2014, 01:38 PM
lol I knew when they brought them up the would be down before I got to play in one.... what a mess

AswanJaguar
05-06-2014, 01:41 PM
Looks like they got some tournaments in and were able to identify the issue causing the slowdowns. They'll be patching the tournament servers and hopefully we'll be back at it tomorrow.

This is your daily reminder that this is a beta and this is standard procedure. There are many bugs still remaining but every day brings us closer to the finished product.

bojanglesz
05-06-2014, 01:46 PM
Meh. Joke

chili
05-06-2014, 01:48 PM
Lol, they really don't work again?

Bells
05-06-2014, 01:49 PM
They can't say it's fixed without testing it out with players... so they tested it out with players. They are working on it... so it should be done soon.

I feel a lot of discussions around here should just end with /ItsBeta

GatticusFinch
05-06-2014, 01:53 PM
They can't say it's fixed without testing it out with players... so they tested it out with players. They are working on it... so it should be done soon.

I feel a lot of discussions around here should just end with /ItsBeta

/ItsLiveMonetizedBeta

Mahes
05-06-2014, 01:57 PM
So now they have to refund everyone's drafts again. They really could have not monetized this and we could have slammed the servers then. Oh well, it is Beta.

bojanglesz
05-06-2014, 01:57 PM
The good news is Xenavire may still get to eat a hat! :-p

Svenn
05-06-2014, 01:57 PM
/ItsLiveMonetizedBeta

/NoOneIsForcingYouToPlayTheBeta

Marsden
05-06-2014, 01:57 PM
/ItsLiveMonetizedBeta

/ItsStillBetaStopBangingThatDrum

mightygerm
05-06-2014, 01:59 PM
/NoOneIsForcingYouToPlayTheBeta
Apart from a bunch of expiring draft tickets...

the_artic_one
05-06-2014, 02:00 PM
So now they have to refund everyone's drafts again. They really could have not monetized this and we could have slammed the servers then. Oh well, it is Beta.

Looks like the drafts worked, they're just running slow, hopefully they shouldn't need to do too many refunds.

AdamAoE2
05-06-2014, 02:01 PM
Argh, how disappointing. :(

Svenn
05-06-2014, 02:01 PM
Apart from a bunch of expiring draft tickets...
You were warned in advance that it was a beta and you knew the tickets would expire when you redeemed the code. Again, no one forced you to redeem the code and start playing now.

mightygerm
05-06-2014, 02:02 PM
You were warned in advance that it was a beta and you knew the tickets would expire when you redeemed the code. Again, no one forced you to redeem the code and start playing now.

Oh I'm sorry. I should have known nothing was going to work when they launched the for keeps beta, coming from an alpha where tournaments actually worked. Silly me, and everyone else! We should have ignored those emails!

bojanglesz
05-06-2014, 02:03 PM
You were warned in advance that it was a beta and you knew the tickets would expire when you redeemed the code. Again, no one forced you to redeem the code and start playing now.

Haha this is an epic apologist stand

Mahes
05-06-2014, 02:03 PM
You were warned in advance that it was a beta and you knew the tickets would expire when you redeemed the code. Again, no one forced you to redeem the code and start playing now.

Also, they have extended the expiration dates on the tickets multiple times. The tickets expiring thing is not an issue....yet.

GatticusFinch
05-06-2014, 02:04 PM
Oh I'm sorry. I should have known nothing was going to work when they launched the for keeps beta, coming from an alpha where tournaments actually worked. Silly me, and everyone else! We should have ignored those emails!

Don't even bother, man. They do not understand their own failed logic circle: "Beta had to be monetized and live or else not enough people would play to test beta," then when the tournaments have been down into "no one is forcing you to play beta, you knew tickets would expire, you knew it was beta, you should have just stayed away."

mightygerm
05-06-2014, 02:05 PM
Also, they have extended the expiration dates on the tickets multiple times. The tickets expiring thing is not an issue....yet.

Its not an issue, and I doubt it will become an issue, but suggesting that people should have not redeemed their codes is just asinine. There's really no defense for that, especially when they said the codes will expire at some point.

AswanJaguar
05-06-2014, 02:09 PM
Find someone who's had a draft ticket expire or anyone who's lost anything other than time invested in beta testing and you might have a case.

Yoss
05-06-2014, 02:09 PM
Key note, there was no CZE forum announcement that tournaments were up and working. Notice this thread was started by a user, not by CZE. That means they were still just testing and using the currently available players to do it. When they think it's actually fixed, they will make a formal announcement (I assume).

ZackBlade
05-06-2014, 02:11 PM
!!! Something to look forward to ......In only 2 more hours @.@ ...and an hour in traffic...*womp womp*

Mahes
05-06-2014, 02:11 PM
Its not an issue, and I doubt it will become an issue, but suggesting that people should have not redeemed their codes is just asinine. There's really no defense for that, especially when they said the codes will expire at some point.

I agree the "Do not use your code if you do not want to play a broke game" is kind of a weak arguement given that you need players to actually test the system and they removed the Alpha servers. The thing that is surprising to me at this point is that the Alpha did plenty of server stressing and I thought they learned a lot from that experience. It almost seems as if the Alpha tournament testing did nothing to really teach them or help them in rectifying this issue in a timely manner.

GatticusFinch
05-06-2014, 02:11 PM
Key note, there was no CZE forum announcement that tournaments were up and working. Notice this thread was started by a user, not by CZE. That means they were still just testing and using the currently available players to do it. When they think it's actually fixed, they will make a formal announcement (I assume).

Uh.... https://twitter.com/HexTCG/status/463756446031556608

Poetic
05-06-2014, 02:12 PM
Knew I shouldn't have rushed home.

Yoss
05-06-2014, 02:13 PM
Uh.... https://twitter.com/HexTCG/status/463756446031556608

OK, well, they broke their tradition then. Usually being on the forums is sufficient for major announcements. I am now a bit irked that they would not make a post here at the same time as Twit.

nicosharp
05-06-2014, 02:16 PM
Don't even bother, man. They do not understand their own failed logic circle: "Beta had to be monetized and live or else not enough people would play to test beta," then when the tournaments have been down into "no one is forcing you to play beta, you knew tickets would expire, you knew it was beta, you should have just stayed away."

I think there are only a few that take the, "F@$% You! It's Beta." Approach.
Mistakes were made. Apology Bouquets were provided. Rinse and repeat.
This ain't blizzard bro, they are just geographically nearby.

plaguedealer
05-06-2014, 02:19 PM
OK, well, they broke their tradition then. Usually being on the forums is sufficient for major announcements. I am now a bit irked that they would not make a post here at the same time as Twit.
I think they need a devoted location to find tournament status

QuartZ
05-06-2014, 02:25 PM
nice that drafts are up but they're still bugged
entered one of the first drafts that rolled, beat my opponent 2-1 (victory screen and everything) andd came back to the lobby that said i was eliminated and my opponent went on for the next round
wtf

AswanJaguar
05-06-2014, 02:31 PM
I'd suggest opening a support ticket for that QuartZ. Something clearly went haywire.

Marsden
05-06-2014, 02:33 PM
Don't even bother, man. They do not understand their own failed logic circle: "Beta had to be monetized and live or else not enough people would play to test beta," then when the tournaments have been down into "no one is forcing you to play beta, you knew tickets would expire, you knew it was beta, you should have just stayed away."

There's no way that the Drafts would have been hit so hard to reveal some of the these bugs if it wasn't monetized beta. If a wipe was coming, there would be the same level of interest as during Alpha.

Now, the middleware bug - that perhaps could have been picked up if the switch had been done in Alpha, but this new lag bug wouldn't have been if it's happening because the number of drafts firing at once.

Mahes
05-06-2014, 02:38 PM
There's no way that the Drafts would have been hit so hard to reveal some of the these bugs if it wasn't monetized beta. If a wipe was coming, there would be the same level of interest as during Alpha.

Now, the middleware bug - that perhaps could have been picked up if the switch had been done in Alpha, but this new lag bug wouldn't have been if it's happening because the number of drafts firing at once.

Really? Then explain how thier servers were hit just fine when they did the play a developer day thing. Servers crashed HARD on those days. They could have offered a pack of cards to any player who tried to play during a particular time frame and the servers would have been slammed. The whole " They could not have gotten enough to play" arguement is invalid.

GatticusFinch
05-06-2014, 02:39 PM
There's no way that the Drafts would have been hit so hard to reveal some of the these bugs if it wasn't monetized beta. If a wipe was coming, there would be the same level of interest as during Alpha.

Now, the middleware bug - that perhaps could have been picked up if the switch had been done in Alpha, but this new lag bug wouldn't have been if it's happening because the number of drafts firing at once.

Actually, DataDragon said in a stream that it was specifically not related to server lag.

mach
05-06-2014, 02:40 PM
There's no way that the Drafts would have been hit so hard to reveal some of the these bugs if it wasn't monetized beta. If a wipe was coming, there would be the same level of interest as during Alpha.

Now, the middleware bug - that perhaps could have been picked up if the switch had been done in Alpha, but this new lag bug wouldn't have been if it's happening because the number of drafts firing at once.

I don't buy this. If they didn't have enough people drafting in a prewipe beta, they could have increased the number by sending out beta invites.

Chark
05-06-2014, 02:44 PM
nice that drafts are up but they're still bugged
entered one of the first drafts that rolled, beat my opponent 2-1 (victory screen and everything) andd came back to the lobby that said i was eliminated and my opponent went on for the next round
wtf

Hey QuartZ,

We'll run this down time permitting. It's unlikely that this could happen without you disconnecting or something weird like that. Please do log a ticket with support.hextcg.com

Marsden
05-06-2014, 02:47 PM
I don't buy this. If they didn't have enough people drafting in a prewipe beta, they could have increased the number by sending out beta invites.

There is substantially more interest in drafting when the cards you draft and prizes you win are yours to keep.

Marsden
05-06-2014, 02:49 PM
Actually, DataDragon said in a stream that it was specifically not related to server lag.

Twitter: "Drafts were taking time to launch, so the drafts were successful but we want to fix that lag. We've taken down tournaments to fix that issue".

Lag can be caused by many things. Slow processing doesn't mean a CPU/Disk/Network is overloaded. It's still called lag.

GatticusFinch
05-06-2014, 02:51 PM
Twitter: "Drafts were taking time to launch, so the drafts were successful but we want to fix that lag. We've taken down tournaments to fix that issue".

I meant to say server load. Something was causing the games to lag, but it was not server load. He said that specifically in MythicFishmom's stream, so the idea that the servers "were being hit hard" was not the issue.

Marsden
05-06-2014, 02:53 PM
The whole " They could not have gotten enough to play" arguement is invalid.

It's not invalid. It applies to me. I'm not putting substantial time into draft until it's giving me rewards. I played a couple of rounds in Alpha and that was enough. I'm sure there are plenty of others who it applies to as well.

Incindium
05-06-2014, 02:54 PM
Hey QuartZ,

We'll run this down time permitting. It's unlikely that this could happen without you disconnecting or something weird like that. Please do log a ticket with support.hextcg.com

Ha!

As a software engineer myself I'm being really patient about the whole Beta because I know how complicated this stuff really is. But the "It's unlikely that this could happen" saying it was likely an issue on QuartZ's side is a pretty hard sell given the general unstability of all things Beta.

Marsden
05-06-2014, 02:55 PM
I meant to say server load. Something was causing the games to lag, but it was not server load. He said that specifically in MythicFishmom's stream, so the idea that the servers "were being hit hard" was not the issue.

I said drafts were being hit hard, not servers specifically. I'd already read that they'd said it wasn't server load.

Chark
05-06-2014, 03:00 PM
Ha!

As a software engineer myself I'm being really patient about the whole Beta because I know how complicated this stuff really is. But the "It's unlikely that this could happen" saying it was likely an issue on QuartZ's side is a pretty hard sell given the general unstability of all things Beta.

Given the state of things, there are a bunch of false positives that are happening right now. I am not dismissing this as an issue, but it's likely not an issue with tournament logic and more of "once we check the logs and see what happened, we can explain to the player why the game behaved the way it did."

QuartZ
05-06-2014, 03:04 PM
Hey QuartZ,

We'll run this down time permitting. It's unlikely that this could happen without you disconnecting or something weird like that. Please do log a ticket with support.hextcg.com

Just sent a ticket.
I DID got a disconect but it was just after i finish and save my deck, before any matches.
I got back in, timer was still running at 3 mins or so, so i saved again my deck and went for the matches. They went normally until my second victory screen. Opponent conceded when he saw he couldnt survive the last atack, maybe he hit the ""bugged game" button or something. It was tournament 10304.

edit: guess what, tournament just finished, the guy i beat finished 2nd :P

frychikn
05-06-2014, 03:05 PM
im getting trolled. went up to my campus super early to cram for a final and saw that drafts were up. after final i check and looks like drafts are down once against for who knows how long.

fml.

mach
05-06-2014, 03:06 PM
It's not invalid. It applies to me. I'm not putting substantial time into draft until it's giving me rewards. I played a couple of rounds in Alpha and that was enough. I'm sure there are plenty of others who it applies to as well.

Sure, but there are many others in the opposite position: they won't draft now because it costs real money, but would if it didn't.

Chiany
05-06-2014, 03:18 PM
I got to start a draft, won round 1.
In round 2 I was leading with 1 - 0 , when in the 2nd game after a few turns I couldn't play anything.
I passed the turn to see if it continued in my next turn, which it did.

Reported it as bugged, lost the game and eventually the match.

Shot in a ticket too.

Shaqattaq
05-06-2014, 03:23 PM
Hi all. In great news, tournaments were running properly and completing. When players started queuing for tournaments, many saw wait times of 10+ minutes between queuing and actually playing. That obviously led to some players being confused and assuming that their draft had crashed when it was just busy processing. We decided to take down tournaments in order to prevent any confusion with players experiencing those long delays. We've identified that problem; we're in the process of fixing it and testing that fix. We'll update you when tournaments are back up. Thanks everyone.

AdamAoE2
05-06-2014, 03:24 PM
Thats excellent news Shaq! :) Any chance they'll be back up tonight or are we looking at tomorrow?

QuartZ
05-06-2014, 03:25 PM
Given the state of things, there are a bunch of false positives that are happening right now. I am not dismissing this as an issue, but it's likely not an issue with tournament logic and more of "once we check the logs and see what happened, we can explain to the player why the game behaved the way it did."

I hope youre not trying to say that i lost that game.
I want compensation not explanation, when we start paying to play you gotta be serious about it, even if its beta. The time lost is allready enought, i will not lose money

Animedragon
05-06-2014, 03:26 PM
So close to playing... so close, yet so far away :(

nicosharp
05-06-2014, 03:36 PM
I hope youre not trying to say that i lost that game.
I want compensation not explanation, when we start paying to play you gotta be serious about it, even if its beta. The time lost is allready enought, i will not lose money
He isn't. You will get reimbursed.. Just create a ticket. This is going to be an issue for a long time. We just need to learn how to appropriately vet it so we get compensated for our time and lost product.

nickon
05-06-2014, 03:42 PM
Be patient people! I'm not asking to CZE either to reimburse my speeding ticket trying to get home and play drafts. Instead I get into my transcended state and think of which cards I will be picking once drafts will be up fo real!

Poetic
05-06-2014, 03:43 PM
You really got a ticket? sorry to hear that, I was worried I'd get one myself.

bojanglesz
05-06-2014, 03:54 PM
CZE you have until Friday when I finish my finals. Be warned.

Chance
05-06-2014, 04:14 PM
Gogogogocze build us our draft machine to throw my money at!!! I dont wanna travel and draft tonight :(

Mejis
05-06-2014, 04:53 PM
CZE you have until Friday when I finish my finals. Be warned.

Haha, along these lines my wife has been away on business for 3 weeks and I thought it was perfect timing for me to get some serious drafting in without being deemed antisocial and living on my computer playing a card game ;)
This is my last weekend of 100% geekdom ... come on CZE, let's get this up and running!

Saeijou
05-06-2014, 05:20 PM
Thats excellent news Shaq! :) Any chance they'll be back up tonight or are we looking at tomorrow?

+1

frychikn
05-06-2014, 06:01 PM
ya... theyre not coming up tonight.

Saeijou
05-06-2014, 06:15 PM
ya... theyre not coming up tonight.

where did you get that information?

knightofeffect
05-06-2014, 07:18 PM
where did you get that information?

Out of a pessimistic hat =D

chromus
05-06-2014, 07:18 PM
He was right... @HexTCG:
'We're going to work on implementing, scheduling our fixes tonight. Will update players when tournaments are available. Goodnight, Twitter!'

frychikn
05-06-2014, 07:48 PM
that twitter update is confusing.

are they saying they are looking to fix tournaments tonight? or that they are done since they said "goodnight"

Miyordon
05-06-2014, 07:56 PM
Yeah, the wording could have been slightly less ambiguous. BUT, the pessimist in me says that tonight, they are scheduling when the fix happens, not that the fix is scheduled for tonight. I would love to be wrong though.

chromus
05-06-2014, 08:00 PM
Since he's saying players will be updated when tournaments are available and hinting that he's off for today with the 'Goodnight', I would guess tournaments will be available at the earliest on Wednesday morning California time...

Jugan
05-06-2014, 09:50 PM
Out of a pessimistic hat =D


Pessimist, or realist?

Ertzi
05-06-2014, 10:27 PM
Wtf? I don't visit the forum for one day, and the drafts have started working AND stopped working in the meantime. I wouldn't have had time to play, so it's all good, but still pretty funny. Every player attacked the draft like ravenous coyotes, and the servers couldn't take it :D

Chiany
05-06-2014, 10:53 PM
Wtf? I don't visit the forum for one day, and the drafts have started working AND stopped working in the meantime. I wouldn't have had time to play, so it's all good, but still pretty funny. Every player attacked the draft like ravenous coyotes, and the servers couldn't take it :D

It wasn't a hardware problem, but software related which caused tournaments take a long time to start.
So probably a load balancing issue, which they are fixing as we speak.

Cernz
05-06-2014, 10:54 PM
hm im a bit sad, but also i understand that we are still in beta (even if its a monetized one), but it would have been much better to go to the "live" servers during end of alpha to sort things out instead on beginning of monetized closed beta :( ... i dont care about the problems, but maybe some other players or maybe review game sites or anyone else will have a bad influence due to that situation.

so i hope CZE will get everything stable during this week (maybe today?)

beside of all problems, thank you for the hard work you sure put into the game the past two weeks to eliminate those nasty bugs \o/

Torchedqwe
05-06-2014, 11:10 PM
I got into a tournament and the actual tournament was fine but it seems like there was a bug in the queue'ing system. What would happen is you would join the queue, you could then see all the slots fill but your name isn't on the list, that tournament would then start but you will still stay queued for that tournament and not switch over to queue for the next tournament. If this happened to you you would just leave the queue (your draft ticket didn't get used) and re-join the queue for the next tournament until you finally get in.

I am guessing they just need to set somekind of upper limit value on the number of people queue'd onto a single tournament before the rest of the people start lining up for the next tourney

DuroNL
05-07-2014, 03:48 AM
It's awfully quiet on this board, and on the Twitter, i take it we can safely assume the devs went home for a good nights rest, and they will work on servers during EU prime time most likely, which is sad, but oh well they all do it i guess!

Chiany
05-07-2014, 03:53 AM
It's awfully quiet on this board, and on the Twitter, i take it we can safely assume the devs went home for a good nights rest, and they will work on servers during EU prime time most likely, which is sad, but oh well they all do it i guess!

Probably, but maybe only the guys managing the twitter account went home.

Either way, we all know they try to get it back up asap.
And they deserve a good nights rest, which is actually better for us if they do.

hex_colin
05-07-2014, 04:00 AM
hm im a bit sad, but also i understand that we are still in beta (even if its a monetized one), but it would have been much better to go to the "live" servers during end of alpha to sort things out instead on beginning of monetized closed beta :( ... i dont care about the problems, but maybe some other players or maybe review game sites or anyone else will have a bad influence due to that situation.

so i hope CZE will get everything stable during this week (maybe today?)

beside of all problems, thank you for the hard work you sure put into the game the past two weeks to eliminate those nasty bugs \o/

The latest issue isn't a server issue though. It's a load issue - not just the number of players, but ALL of those folks trying to join the same queue at the same time. There's no way they could have simulated it in Alpha. The only reason so many people are around right now is that they gave out the rewards - an unfortunate, but necessary part of the testing process.

Gorgol
05-07-2014, 04:06 AM
The latest issue isn't a server issue though. It's a load issue - not just the number of players, but ALL of those folks trying to join the same queue at the same time. There's no way they could have simulated it in Alpha. The only reason so many people are around right now is that they gave out the rewards - an unfortunate, but necessary part of the testing process.

that sounds complicated to fix :(

Cernz
05-07-2014, 04:07 AM
the problem is, nobody cares about which issue is fail, the most people only notice the result from that issues... humanity ;)

ossuary
05-07-2014, 04:22 AM
And the people who are genuinely angry about it (not just frustrated or disappointed, but angry) don't really understand what a beta is, even if they claim to, and nothing anyone can say will ever make those people happy with how things are.

Everyone can say in hindsight that maybe CZE should have done something differently, but the reality is the problems they've been having would NOT have been revealed with a thousand people logging in to tournaments, which with no permanent collections is all they would have gotten (because it's the same thing we've had for awhile now). They needed 10,000 people smashing the servers for these issues to become apparent, and the only way to GET that volume was to give people their stuff for keeps.

DuroNL
05-07-2014, 04:25 AM
that sounds complicated to fix :(

I would suggest they add not 1 Que, but multiple que's, seems to me the easiest way to prevent 500 people spamming 1 Que, devide them over 10-20 Que's or something...

Or maybe thats just thinking to easy :P

Kardh
05-07-2014, 04:37 AM
They needed 10,000 people smashing the servers for these issues to become apparent, and the only way to GET that volume was to give people their stuff for keeps.

There are always ways to test stuff. They are clearly capable of developing a script or something that joins queues automatically to stress test that thoroughly.

However, time spent doing that would be time not spent on something else, so you will do a risk analysis and guess what tests you will get away with skipping.

This time they bet on the wrong horse and now they have a slightly agitated community on their hands. It was probably a decent bet to take, but you can't win them all.

Poetic
05-07-2014, 04:56 AM
I'm a patient person, but I can understand why people would be upset or disappointed. We have like 5% of what the game is supposed to be. They really need to get tournaments up where they can stay up and a lot of the complaining will go away. Until the next thing to bitch about. People will always complain.

Bells
05-07-2014, 05:18 AM
I'm a patient person, but I can understand why people would be upset or disappointed. We have like 5% of what the game is supposed to be. They really need to get tournaments up where they can stay up and a lot of the complaining will go away. Until the next thing to bitch about. People will always complain.

5% ?

Dude, c'mon... we have way more than that now.

Don't think of content as proportional though... the main engine, the set of cards, stable launcher, event features like chat, collection and card manager and store push those numbers up...

You talk 5% and makes the game feel like it's barely holding itself together... but we are actually striding fairly decently. People just need to get out of their ''now now now'' mentality and enjoy a BETA as a BETA, being monetized does not make it any less of a BETA.

AstaSyneri
05-07-2014, 05:25 AM
I am enjoying the game. I am building non-sensical fun decks which get shot down by my tournament savvy guildmates with their high and mighty tournament type decks :P.

That doesn't thwart me, of course, one of these days I'll surprise them - and then I'll be ready for PvE! :D

AdamAoE2
05-07-2014, 05:26 AM
I guarantee you that when tournaments are up, functioning, and stable for a few days, people will forget about the delay. I just hope they can get them working by this weekend! I'm hungry for some drafts!

zadies
05-07-2014, 05:35 AM
I am of the opinion that if they launch today there was no delay since the initial plan was that all servers would be offline for a week.

Arminace
05-07-2014, 05:37 AM
I guess that most people even dont care much about the delay bug....as long as they can finally play tournaments ;) (including me)

MasterN64
05-07-2014, 06:06 AM
I would suggest they add not 1 Que, but multiple que's, seems to me the easiest way to prevent 500 people spamming 1 Que, devide them over 10-20 Que's or something...

Or maybe thats just thinking to easy :P

Depending on the issue that could just make it worse. If you have two open they will fill twice as fast generally and if its an issue with a bottleneck youll just back more up in the front.

DuroNL
05-07-2014, 06:30 AM
Depending on the issue that could just make it worse. If you have two open they will fill twice as fast generally and if its an issue with a bottleneck youll just back more up in the front.

Ah that makes sense :D thanks for clarifying.... I already assumed i was thinking to lightly on the subject..

Niedar
05-07-2014, 07:40 AM
I am of the opinion that if they launch today there was no delay since the initial plan was that all servers would be offline for a week.

Just saying, it has been 2 weeks not one week.

dwebber88
05-07-2014, 07:51 AM
Depending on the issue that could just make it worse. If you have two open they will fill twice as fast generally and if its an issue with a bottleneck youll just back more up in the front.

Would probably not matter much, since the server has to go through the same process of pairing people and starting the draft stage of the tournament, either way.

chili
05-07-2014, 08:02 AM
I can't login right now, there's still no drafts?

Poetic
05-07-2014, 08:04 AM
No news on them yet. Its only 8am on the west though.

wasichu
05-07-2014, 08:10 AM
What I don't understand is (besides wanting to see a income flow) they had to have had a hunch that there would be issues swapping from alpha to beta. And the whole purpose of going from closed beta to open beta is that open is almost ready for launch game with minor tweeks.
So I really feel they should of had in this closed beta a pseudo alpha part 2 with us having all the cards and a pool of platinum to test everything out. And after all of that was working fine then a wipe and the start of what we are in now with backer codes and real money.
Besides trying to have a money flow now at a bugged up early closed beta I really feel this was a poor company decision. This has been the least fun two weeks of this game I have had. I know everything is being worked on but this should of never happened and has left a sour taste in many. Thank goodness the game is awesome and we will just get over it.

hex_colin
05-07-2014, 08:12 AM
What I don't understand is (besides wanting to see a income flow) they had to have had a hunch that there would be issues swapping from alpha to beta. And the whole purpose of going from closed beta to open beta is that open is almost ready for launch game with minor tweeks.
So I really feel they should of had in this closed beta a pseudo alpha part 2 with us having all the cards and a pool of platinum to test everything out. And after all of that was working fine then a wipe and the start of what we are in now with backer codes and real money.
Besides trying to have a money flow now at a bugged up early closed beta I really feel this was a poor company decision. This has been the least fun two weeks of this game I have had. I know everything is being worked on but this should of never happened and has left a sour taste in many. Thank goodness the game is awesome and we will just get over it.

Chicken/Egg. Without going to Beta and handing out rewards they'd never have seen the load issues they're now fixing.

wasichu
05-07-2014, 08:17 AM
they would still have seen the issues because we would still be drafting just like we were in alpha except on their newer server system

GatticusFinch
05-07-2014, 08:22 AM
Chicken/Egg. Without going to Beta and handing out rewards they'd never have seen the load issues they're now fixing.

Let's give up this fantasy that the reason we are in monetized beta right now is because CZE had to for load testing purposes. Virtual user load testing would have revealed the same issue if it is simply caused by too many people firing up tournaments at the same time (they have already said server load was not the issue). If they wanted to do load testing with real users, they could send out more beta invites to the people begging for them.

Khazrakh
05-07-2014, 08:27 AM
Let's give up this fantasy that the reason we are in monetized beta right now is because CZE had to for load testing purposes. Virtual user load testing would have revealed the same issue if it is simply caused by too many people firing up tournaments at the same time (they have already said server load was not the issue). If they wanted to do load testing with real users, they could send out more beta invites to the people begging for them.

Resulting in them getting a bad first impression and leaving the game behind.That's just not how you do it.
Ignoring that little mistake where 450 Closed Beta Invites went out we are still the bunch of people that backed this game - be it through Kickstarter or as a Slacker Backer, it doesn't matter.
We are the guys who are passionate about that game, we are the guys who want this game to be amazing. And we absolutely should be the guys who are willing to give it the time it takes to become that amazing game we all want it to be.

Anybody who can't stand the problems right now should really just take a month or two off and come back when everything settled down a bit. Things will get better soon enough.

Poetic
05-07-2014, 08:39 AM
But that's like 4-8 free drafts :p

No one will take time off, just complain endlessly.

GatticusFinch
05-07-2014, 08:42 AM
Resulting in them getting a bad first impression and leaving the game behind.That's just not how you do it.


So monetizing the beta, pushing collections live, and then having the tournaments go down for 2 weeks is building a good first impression? Keep in mind that lots of people playing the beta never touched the alpha. If they did, they might have even got a worse impression since previously working features ended up breaking.

The idea that this beta had to go monetized and live is a total myth.

Marsden
05-07-2014, 08:46 AM
Let's give up this fantasy that the reason we are in monetized beta right now is because CZE had to for load testing purposes. Virtual user load testing would have revealed the same issue if it is simply caused by too many people firing up tournaments at the same time (they have already said server load was not the issue). If they wanted to do load testing with real users, they could send out more beta invites to the people begging for them.

I didn't realise you were so knowledgeable about the Hex setup to know virtual testing for this was actually possible and would have shown up all the problems.

DuroNL
05-07-2014, 08:53 AM
What I don't understand is (besides wanting to see a income flow) they had to have had a hunch that there would be issues swapping from alpha to beta. And the whole purpose of going from closed beta to open beta is that open is almost ready for launch game with minor tweeks.
So I really feel they should of had in this closed beta a pseudo alpha part 2 with us having all the cards and a pool of platinum to test everything out. And after all of that was working fine then a wipe and the start of what we are in now with backer codes and real money.
Besides trying to have a money flow now at a bugged up early closed beta I really feel this was a poor company decision. This has been the least fun two weeks of this game I have had. I know everything is being worked on but this should of never happened and has left a sour taste in many. Thank goodness the game is awesome and we will just get over it.

Not to be picky, by i can remember having a shit load of Platinum i could spend in store and do tourneys until i collapsed :P

All that stuff has been tested in Alpha, but in Alpha their wasn't as big a user base as in Beta... *shrugs*

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 08:53 AM
I didn't realise you were so knowledgeable about the Hex setup to know virtual testing for this was actually possible and would have shown up all the problems.

He's just speculating like everyone else in this thread, colin included. The only facts are the issues players have been experiencing which have created all these feelings of ineptitude for CZE.

bootlace
05-07-2014, 08:54 AM
Lets relax people, I did a draft yesterday and besides the crazy lag in actually joining/starting the tournaments, everything else worked perfectly. The problem with the lag seems a minor one and once its resolved PVP tournaments will be good to go FOREVER. So hang in there just abit longer, the end is in sight (at least as far as PVP is concerned).

Khazrakh
05-07-2014, 08:54 AM
So monetizing the beta, pushing collections live, and then having the tournaments go down for 2 weeks is building a good first impression? [...]

Fun fact: My first impression dates back to May 2013 - it was amazing ;)

rjselzler
05-07-2014, 08:58 AM
So monetizing the beta, pushing collections live, and then having the tournaments go down for 2 weeks is building a good first impression? Keep in mind that lots of people playing the beta never touched the alpha. If they did, they might have even got a worse impression since previously working features ended up breaking.

The idea that this beta had to go monetized and live is a total myth.

Everyone in now (except 450 I guess?) are backers. Our first impression was the KS. Have things gone smoothly. Hah! Not even close. But we who are in are backers (closer to micro producers) than normal customers. Should they have had a non-monetized beta? I think so, but Pandora's box has been opened, and we really can't go back.

That said, I would like, as a backer (again, a micro producer) to have better updates with how my investment/gift/backing (whatever) is being leveraged. Over and over we hear that different parts of the game are being produced by independent teams; great, have those teams each do weekly, meaningful updates! I know that we aren't going to be able to play PvE, but give us some actual, meaningful news, not just art stills and Colin (with all due respect) spilling spoiler-ettes that are so cryptic they infuriate rather than inform. I want video. I want commentary. Am I greedy? Sure, that's why I backed this game: to get more than the person on the sideline! A few hours of PvE footage and commentary would do a lot of alleviate the stress of not being able to draft and the ominous "No ETA"-style messages we have been getting. Just sayin'.

CZE has my faith that they are doing the best they can behind the scenes, and I'm confident that this game is going to rock socks, but some serious PR management is due this community. First impressions aside, we need some meaty confirmation/news/updates. I've seen enough art.

rjselzler
05-07-2014, 09:03 AM
Lets relax people, I did a draft yesterday and besides the crazy lag in actually joining/starting the tournaments, everything else worked perfectly. The problem with the lag seems a minor one and once its resolved PVP tournaments will be good to go FOREVER. So hang in there just abit longer, the end is in sight (at least as far as PVP is concerned).

That was my experience as well.

drachenfells
05-07-2014, 09:08 AM
That was my experience as well.

Same here. Took awhile to get into the draft but when I was in there it was running fine, drafting went smoothly and the games run without a problem. Well, apart from my problem of not being a great player.

hex_colin
05-07-2014, 09:11 AM
He's just speculating like everyone else in this thread, colin included. The only facts are the issues players have been experiencing which have created all these feelings of ineptitude for CZE.

I rarely speculate. ;)

EDIT: Admittedly, I do a fair bit of subtle trolling. But there's also a lot of actual, verified information in my posts, even if I (intentionally) use language that softens the certainty a bit. I spend a fair bit of time interacting with the CZE folks, even when I'm not actually there. It's harder than you would think to participate in some of these threads when I actually know the answer.

rjselzler
05-07-2014, 09:18 AM
I rarely speculate. ;)

EDIT: Admittedly, I do a fair bit of subtle trolling. But there's also a lot of actual, verified information in my posts, even if I (intentionally) use language that softens the certainty a bit. I spend a fair bit of time interacting with the CZE folks, even when I'm not actually there. It's harder than you would think to participate in some of these threads when I actually know the answer.

Colin, Prophet of Muddied Waters :D

bojanglesz
05-07-2014, 09:20 AM
So what's the deal for today, tourneys or no?

drachenfells
05-07-2014, 09:21 AM
So what's the deal for today, tourneys or no?

I think it`s a firm maybe.

Mahes
05-07-2014, 09:27 AM
So what's the deal for today, tourneys or no?

Cloudy with a chance for meat balls.

Ju66ernaut
05-07-2014, 09:39 AM
When polled, 18 of 18 first grade students thought we'd have lunch today. I hope this helps with your guesstimations.

Edit: Lunch was canceled to teach them a lesson about not being sheep and following the crowd.

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 09:43 AM
I rarely speculate. ;)

EDIT: Admittedly, I do a fair bit of subtle trolling. But there's also a lot of actual, verified information in my posts, even if I (intentionally) use language that softens the certainty a bit. I spend a fair bit of time interacting with the CZE folks, even when I'm not actually there. It's harder than you would think to participate in some of these threads when I actually know the answer.

Unfortunately, that interaction has made you biased and likely unwilling to share anything negative. Completely understandable though.

hex_colin
05-07-2014, 09:53 AM
Unfortunately, that interaction has made you biased and likely unwilling to share anything negative. Completely understandable though.

I shared my negative experience with Gameforge on these very forums. And I'm sure Cory and Kyle were sick of hearing about it outside of the forums too! :P I'll do it in the future too if something else comes up.

That being said, if you (or anyone) could find a way to visit them and get a first-hand idea of everything they've done (that you just haven't seen yet), all the cool stuff they have planned, and just how hard they're working to bring Hex to us, you'd err on the positive side too. :) It's just not worth focusing on the negative because, in every case, they're working to make it better and better over time.

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 10:00 AM
I shared my negative experience with Gameforge on these very forums. And I'm sure Cory and Kyle were sick of hearing about it outside of the forums too! :P I'll do it in the future too if something else comes up.

That being said, if you (or anyone) could find a way to visit them and get a first-hand idea of everything they've done (that you just haven't seen yet), all the cool stuff they have planned, and just how hard they're working to bring Hex to us, you'd err on the positive side too. :) It's just not worth focusing on the negative because, in every case, they're working to make it better and better over time.

I know they have tons of cool stuff planned, thats why I backed on Kickstarter. I have no doubt that CZE is full of great game designers.
Its the development of the software that seems to be running off the rails.

maniza
05-07-2014, 10:00 AM
it is easy for people who are not involved in the development process to criticize it after things go wrong. it shure looks from our point of view like doin a non monetized beta and waiting a bit to give out rewards would have been the best choize.

but this is now and if you take a second to step into the developer shoes and think of then. they were faced whit a choise, and not an easy one. they were already far behind schedule and had already done testing on the software for a couple of months so, they decided to go all out. seems like they were not ready.

allso remember that this is a first for cory and a good part of the team. so mistakes are goin to be made. the important thing is they learn from them and deliver the game we all want.

hex_colin
05-07-2014, 10:13 AM
Its the development of the software that seems to be running off the rails.

You have incomplete information. Could it be going better? Of course it could. But we've all only seen a fraction of what they have managed to accomplish. All of the systems in the background that they've had to create that will never be visible, but are critical to us having the game we want, etc. All of the work on other features that are not quite ready to show off yet. Loads of UI related stuff that will eventually be important, but takes a back seat to server stability, etc. Bottom line - you can't measure progress in a day, or a week, or a month... Compare what we have in September to the first Alpha release we got and then see if you can make the same statement with a straight face.

bojanglesz
05-07-2014, 10:16 AM
You have incomplete information. Could it be going better? Of course it could. But we've all only seen a fraction of what they have managed to accomplish. All of the systems in the background that they've had to create that will never be visible, but are critical to us having the game we want, etc. All of the work on other features that are not quite ready to show off yet. Loads of UI related stuff that will eventually be important, but takes a back seat to server stability, etc. Bottom line - you can't measure progress in a day, or a week, or a month... Compare what we have in September to the first Alpha release we got and then see if you can make the same statement with a straight face.

I can say it with a straight face. What do I win?

maniza
05-07-2014, 10:19 AM
I can say it with a straight face. What do I win?

no you cant its not september yet...

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 10:20 AM
You have incomplete information. Could it be going better? Of course it could. But we've all only seen a fraction of what they have managed to accomplish. All of the systems in the background that they've had to create that will never be visible, but are critical to us having the game we want, etc. All of the work on other features that are not quite ready to show off yet. Loads of UI related stuff that will eventually be important, but takes a back seat to server stability, etc. Bottom line - you can't measure progress in a day, or a week, or a month... Compare what we have in September to the first Alpha release we got and then see if you can make the same statement with a straight face.

Of course I have incomplete information, I'm a customer. What you are saying boils down to "just wait a bit longer." It's difficult to continue to tell your customers that every week.

hex_colin
05-07-2014, 10:23 AM
Of course I have incomplete information, I'm a customer. What you are saying boils down to "just wait a bit longer." It's difficult to continue to tell your customers that every week.

I'm a customer too. The difference is in our expectations. And, we can debate from now until the end of time which set of expectations are more appropriate. :)

Svenn
05-07-2014, 10:23 AM
That said, I would like, as a backer (again, a micro producer) to have better updates with how my investment/gift/backing (whatever) is being leveraged. Over and over we hear that different parts of the game are being produced by independent teams; great, have those teams each do weekly, meaningful updates!
That's not how development works. First of all, time spent giving you updates means time NOT spent working on something. Second, weekly updates would mean nothing. They even did this for a while and the updates were basically "still plugging away" because there wasn't anything exciting to share. The progress a team makes in a week might be significant in the back end, but there isn't some exciting news to share with people on a weekly basis. You're not going to get updates like "I wrote a class for handling the chat interface" or something.

Yoss
05-07-2014, 10:25 AM
You're not going to get updates like "I wrote a class for handling the chat interface" or something.

What's funny is that's exactly the sort of status I have to give my customers. :)

hex_colin
05-07-2014, 10:27 AM
What's funny is that's exactly the sort of status I have to give my customers. :)

Me too... Well, after I interpret what the developer told me... ;)

Flight
05-07-2014, 10:30 AM
It's still beta. I'm a massive fan of Hex and realize and accept that we need to be patient on all issues.

But I feel, strongly, that our KS pledges should never have been filled while the software is in this state. Cards should not have been distributed and the 12 month/36 month tournament subs should never have started.

Frankly there should be a wipe at the end of beta and KS pledges should be filled then.

maniza
05-07-2014, 10:31 AM
my advise to people that are unhappy whit the game now is to take a few months off and come back. i did that in alpha because the game seemed incomplete for me then. i came back for beta and i have to say im impressed. if you feel beta is still to early you can stop playing and loose your pledge money or wait for a bit come back when the game is closer to completition.

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 10:34 AM
I'm a customer too. The difference is in our expectations. And, we can debate from now until the end of time which set of expectations are more appropriate. :)

I wouldn't expect CZE or any business to tell their customers about internal problems, but at what point do you think its reasonable for customers to be unhappy with them? Sure, they can hide behind the "beta" blanket, but they have a real functional store selling to real people.

Also, there is time to debate, its not like drafts are running.

maniza
05-07-2014, 10:35 AM
It's still beta. I'm a massive fan of Hex and realize and accept that we need to be patient on all issues.

But I feel, strongly, that our KS pledges should never have been filled while the software is in this state. Cards should not have been distributed and the 12 month/36 month tournament subs should never have started.

Frankly there should be a wipe at the end of beta and KS pledges should be filled then.

you are correct but they cant wipe now. that would make alot of ppl mad. it would be an epic shitstorm.

Flight
05-07-2014, 10:41 AM
you are correct but they cant wipe now. that would make alot of ppl mad. it would be an epic shitstorm.

In my experience of CCGs/CTGs players and collectors are never less than happy at the prospect of being able to open more packs.

If they did a poll I suspect a majority would support it and it would be giving something back to the players. Not beyond reason to do an opt in/opt out for it either.

Vorpal
05-07-2014, 10:43 AM
I wish there was a unified central easy location to find out the status of tournaments and beta and stuff.

As it is I feel like I need to scour half a dozen stickies in two different forums and also check twitter.

Svenn
05-07-2014, 10:44 AM
Disclaimer: I don't necessarily think the rewards should have been given out just yet. However...

What is wrong with us having our rewards right now? Buying/opening packs works. Card collection/deck building works. Rolling chests works. Playing games works. The only issue with what is in right now is with tournaments. Perhaps they should have held off on the free draft tickets for a bit, but otherwise... there are no issues with our rewards. No one is losing anything. There haven't been any major catastrophes with the rewards themselves.

If they didn't give out the rewards for months you'd have people on the forums going "Why can't they just give us our rewards so we can start our collections? I just want to play for real already!". In fact, I remember those posts in Alpha...

So, what's the big reason they should have held back rewards for things that work? They were trying to be nice and get us started asap to appease everyone.

rjselzler
05-07-2014, 10:45 AM
That's not how development works.

That may not be how software development works, but it is exactly how project development works. There absolutely needs to be folks involved with the various teams who relay updates consistently to stakeholders.

This type of communication is almost assuredly happening internally, so it wouldn't take much for a community manager to relay that same information in a meaningful way to the community at large. Will many ignore it? Sure. Would many enjoy seeing the new sausage formulations? Yep.

If they have time to play test paper dungeons with Colin (which is awesome that they do this, BTW), they have time to post commentary on the session. I know that a few folks have visited CZE headquarters and been shown the back room of the Wonka factory (Colin, Gwaer, Yoss, etc.). Great! If I could see it when/if I drive down, then it should be prime candidate for an update.

I may have been unclear previously; I would prefer weekly updates on a feature of Hex, not weekly updates on, say, PvE development. One would presume that you could classify at least five or six different update categories and meaningfully update the community at-large on any given one of them on a bi-monthly basis. I'm not implying that all work on coding must stop to provide me an update; on the contrary, I would prefer that the coders leave the community management to folks more skilled in that arena.

bojanglesz
05-07-2014, 10:45 AM
I wish there was a unified central easy location to find out the status of tournaments and beta and stuff.

As it is I feel like I need to scour half a dozen stickies in two different forums and also check twitter.

I wonder if the "beta" tag precludes the client from having a server status window

Yoss
05-07-2014, 10:46 AM
I wish there was a unified central easy location to find out the status of tournaments and beta and stuff.

As it is I feel like I need to scour half a dozen stickies in two different forums and also check twitter.

Agreed. And I really hope the status isn't Twitter. A single sticky in General Discussion would suit me just fine.

Yoss
05-07-2014, 10:48 AM
Great! If I could see it when/if I drive down, then it should be prime candidate for an update.

I agree with most of what you said there, but it's important to note that what you see when/if you drive down is going to be under NDA and may not actually be a "prime candidate for an update". Sadly.

Svenn
05-07-2014, 10:49 AM
If they have time to play test paper dungeons with Colin (which is awesome that they do this, BTW), they have time to post commentary on the session. I know that a few folks have visited CZE headquarters and been shown the back room of the Wonka factory (Colin, Gwaer, Yoss, etc.). Great! If I could see it when/if I drive down, then it should be prime candidate for an update.

I may have been unclear previously; I would prefer weekly updates on a feature of Hex, not weekly updates on, say, PvE development. One would presume that you could classify at least five or six different update categories and meaningfully update the community at-large on any given one of them on a bi-monthly basis. I'm not implying that all work on coding must stop to provide me an update; on the contrary, I would prefer that the coders leave the community management to folks more skilled in that arena.
The problem is that if they are giving updates on things that are not ready yet then you get all of the people who take every word as set in stone. If they make a statement about how something works and then that gets changed at some point people go crazy over it.

They put out weekly updates. Some are more detailed then others. They've put out quite a few articles about various parts of the game. They are way more open about their development than most companies. I don't see the problem.

rjselzler
05-07-2014, 10:49 AM
If they didn't give out the rewards for months you'd have people on the forums going "Why can't they just give us our rewards so we can start our collections? I just want to play for real already!". In fact, I remember those posts in Alpha...


Bingo! Agree totally.

Further, the rewards are deployed and we've been told no wipe by Cory. Discussing further is a worthless endeavor at this point. Talking about what should have happened is only valuable in light of a non-unique event, which KS reward distribution is not.

GatticusFinch
05-07-2014, 11:27 AM
I'm a customer too. The difference is in our expectations. And, we can debate from now until the end of time which set of expectations are more appropriate. :)

You're a customer in the same sense that whenever Warren Buffett drinks a Coke, he is a customer of Coke. He just also happens to be an insider who has a large stake in the company.

You have a ton of insider information that the rest of us do not have and will not get. It's really cool of CZE to let people just show up and see what is going on, but that just leaves the rest of us in the dark. It only gets worse when you come in and say "there's all this really cool shit...that I can't say a word about."

Gwaer
05-07-2014, 11:31 AM
I'm certain a lot of people appreciate Colin's updates. I know I certainly do.

Vorpal
05-07-2014, 11:32 AM
I wonder if the "beta" tag precludes the client from having a server status window

Yeah. I can't understand why that's not there. They are going to need one eventually, can't be that hard to do, go ahead and put it in beta when you expect lots of server issues.

rjselzler
05-07-2014, 11:35 AM
The problem is that if they are giving updates on things that are not ready yet then you get all of the people who take every word as set in stone. If they make a statement about how something works and then that gets changed at some point people go crazy over it.

Because people are totally flipping out over all of the changes from card reveals pre-alpha until now? Exactly.


I don't see the problem.

In Colin's words:


[We] have incomplete information.

rjselzler
05-07-2014, 11:37 AM
I'm certain a lot of people appreciate Colin's updates. I know I certainly do.

Same. Frustrating, but appreciated. It illustrates how information-starved our community is. Granted, we are all Hex addicts, so our threshold for information satisfaction is way higher than normal people...

GatticusFinch
05-07-2014, 11:40 AM
I'm certain a lot of people appreciate Colin's updates. I know I certainly do.

I didn't mean they were not appreciated. Any additional information is good. I was just using that as an example of the information divide between a select few and the masses. Colin goes and plays a paper version of a PvE dungeon with set 2 cards, and the rest of us don't even have an estimate on when tournaments will be back up in the beta.

I guess it all goes back to the lack of a community manager who could be dropping more information on us. In the beginning, they were very transparent, but things have been becoming more and more closed door, select access only.

rjselzler
05-07-2014, 11:42 AM
I guess it all goes back to the lack of a community manager who could be dropping more information on us.

That sums it up. That was my point, also.

Khazrakh
05-07-2014, 11:49 AM
I guess it all goes back to the lack of a community manager who could be dropping more information on us. In the beginning, they were very transparent, but things have been becoming more and more closed door, select access only.

True and in my opinion that's the actual problem - not being able to play drafts for some days in closed beta is not a problem to me, but besides the occasional post by Cory it really got very quiet since the Beta started.
A community manager is needed ASAP.

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 11:49 AM
Colin's information is great, but CZE needs continued negative feedback. They have to know people are unhappy and remain unhappy.

What kind of service will you get when your entire customer base just pats you on the back and says "Maybe next week, eh guys?"

I want Hex to be a well-run efficient card game, not some fat and lazy kickstarter balloon that pops next year.

Miyordon
05-07-2014, 11:52 AM
Good news-- testing is going well so far. Not good news-- we won't be unlocking tournaments today. - Twitter

bojanglesz
05-07-2014, 11:57 AM
Almost had it, guys. Maybe tomorrow.

Daer
05-07-2014, 11:59 AM
Dueling Twitterers


HexTCG ‏@HexTCG 5m

We're nearly done with testing and should everything continue to go well, we will then patch tournament servers and unlock tournaments.

HexTCG ‏@HexTCG 6m

Good news-- testing is going well so far. Not good news-- we won't be unlocking tournaments today.

Chiany
05-07-2014, 12:02 PM
Dueling Twitterers

Yeah, made me smile ;)

but as response to my question on Twitter, patch won't be today.

Poetic
05-07-2014, 12:04 PM
How would you guys feel if another weekend went by without tournaments? Would you be OK with it?

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 12:04 PM
True and in my opinion that's the actual problem - not being able to play drafts for some days in closed beta is not a problem to me, but besides the occasional post by Cory it really got very quiet since the Beta started.
A community manager is needed ASAP.

A community manager is the last thing they need as they have countless players doing most of the work around the clock for free.


How would you guys feel if another weekend went by without tournaments? Would you be OK with it?

Colin's 8-ball says September for anything worthwhile, so I guess so

mach
05-07-2014, 12:10 PM
A community manager is the last thing they need as they have countless players doing most of the work around the clock for free.


Just declare Colin the community manager and give him permission to reveal whatever he thinks should be revealed, using his best judgment.

Hatts
05-07-2014, 12:12 PM
Good news-- testing is going well so far. Not good news-- we won't be unlocking tournaments today. - Twitter

Sorry for crossposting this from the hex meme thread but I just couldn't resist:

http://i.imgur.com/V7oR1dn.jpg

rjselzler
05-07-2014, 12:17 PM
Just declare Colin the community manager and give him permission to reveal whatever he thinks should be revealed, using his best judgment.

I'm down with that. : )

GatticusFinch
05-07-2014, 12:33 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Rb7sCxY.jpg

Miyordon
05-07-2014, 12:36 PM
Okay Gatticus. I do think this one is funny. Also a little on point.

bojanglesz
05-07-2014, 12:59 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Rb7sCxY.jpg

We need Doin' Thangs

GatticusFinch
05-07-2014, 01:04 PM
We need Doin' Thangs

Ok.


HexTCG ‏@HexTCG 1h
We're nearly done with testing and should everything continue to go well, we will then patch tournament servers and unlock tournaments.

Vincent ‏@kroannl 1h
@HexTCG Tweets are confusing. Drafts today: yay or nay?

HexTCG ‏@HexTCG 1h
@kroannl no. we must complete testing.

http://turntabling.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/big-bear-doin-thangs-bad-album-art.jpg

maniza
05-07-2014, 01:35 PM
they wont tell us when tournaments are up servers will get smashed hard enough as it is.

Thrawn
05-07-2014, 01:49 PM
A community manager is the last thing they need as they have countless players doing most of the work around the clock for free.

A bunch of people yelling "YOU DON'T GET WHAT A BETA IS" in ten different ways in almost every thread is not good Community Management.

Yes, a few people do a good job, but the vast majority of them are just guessing on stuff. A lot of people are losing faith and something really needs to be done about it.

Guap
05-07-2014, 02:08 PM
I thought they hired shaggy as a community manager then he disappeared from the face of the earth.

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 02:10 PM
Faith in the game's development will only be restored with functional forward progress, not a mouthpiece repeating "soon."
This weekend will be a big breaking point. Most sub $50 backers will likely write this game off and advise others to do so as well if things remain stagnant.

The bored and depressed twitch streamers aren't helping either.

Fleckenwhatever
05-07-2014, 02:14 PM
Faith in the game's development will only be restored with functional forward progress, not a mouthpiece repeating "soon."
This weekend will be a big breaking point. Most sub $50 backers will likely write this game off and advise others to do so as well if things remain stagnant.

The bored and depressed twitch streamers aren't helping either.

Arbitrary date is arbitrary.

Guap
05-07-2014, 02:14 PM
Faith in the game's development will only be restored with functional forward progress, not a mouthpiece repeating "soon."
This weekend will be a big breaking point. Most sub $50 backers will likely write this game off and advise others to do so as well if things remain stagnant.

The bored and depressed twitch streamers aren't helping either.
Yup, pretty much this...

Poetic
05-07-2014, 02:16 PM
I can agree with that.

Xenavire
05-07-2014, 02:18 PM
I thought they hired shaggy as a community manager then he disappeared from the face of the earth.

He got a new job offer, apparently something he couldn't refuse. A replacement has yet to be found.

Daer
05-07-2014, 02:21 PM
The sky is falling!

Guap
05-07-2014, 02:23 PM
He got a new job offer, apparently something he couldn't refuse. A replacement has yet to be found.

Ah I had not heard that, this for the info.

nicosharp
05-07-2014, 02:24 PM
There isn't too much to manage in the community at this point. Just an anemic pool of 50 active forum users, and 100-200 concurrent players in the game at any one time.

I mean, that is until tournaments are fully functional, the AI stops crashing, and bugs that prevent you from playing cards are removed.

Shadowspawn
05-07-2014, 03:06 PM
There isn't too much to manage in the community at this point. Just an anemic pool of 50 active forum users, and 100-200 concurrent players in the game at any one time.

I mean, that is until tournaments are fully functional, the AI stops crashing, and bugs that prevent you from playing cards are removed.

Almost posted the exact same thing the other day. You would think they would do something to instill more faith. I am a gm and my guild has all but vaporized as a result of the poor track record.

AswanJaguar
05-07-2014, 03:20 PM
Meh. Gamers are like cats. Easily distracted by shiny things and range from indifferent to bitchy towards anything that isn't feeding them. Fill their dish and you become the main attraction, regardless of when you fed them last.

Anyone that swears off of a game that's in development with no regard given to its content was never going to be a long term player anyway. It's not a big concern.

ossuary
05-07-2014, 03:27 PM
A Community Manager could also be working on community building, fueling discussions on other game-related topics besides "when will tournaments be back up?" and generally keeping the peace, in addition to just posting more regular "we're working" messages. There is tons to do, even on just the communication side of things. Hopefully they will hurry up and hire someone (or at least respond to emails - hint hint :)).

dragonweather
05-07-2014, 03:28 PM
Thank you Aswan. Seems some people don't know what the word BETA means. Things will break. If you don't want to beta test possible broken game features, then wait for release.

Pezzle
05-07-2014, 03:35 PM
I do love me some of the old 'it's Beta' Chestnut.

bojanglesz
05-07-2014, 03:37 PM
Thank you Aswan. Seems some people don't know what the word BETA means. Things will break. If you don't want to beta test possible broken game features, then wait for release.

Yeah dragonweather you're right! I hadn't thought it about it like that!

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 03:40 PM
Meh. Gamers are like cats. Easily distracted by shiny things and range from indifferent to bitchy towards anything that isn't feeding them. Fill their dish and you become the main attraction, regardless of when you fed them last.

Anyone that swears off of a game that's in development with no regard given to its content was never going to be a long term player anyway. It's not a big concern.

This kind of dismissive attitude of any negative feedback is what is damaging this community and this game the most.

Your No True Scotsman accusation also serves no purpose other than to foster isolation and keep the community from growing. 'Only a real Hex fan would understand what's going on.'

You are happy posting on a forum about Hex every day. Others want to play the game as intended.

nicosharp
05-07-2014, 03:45 PM
Thank you Aswan. Seems some people don't know what the word BETA means. Things will break. If you don't want to beta test possible broken game features, then wait for release.
The only downside of this idea is losing out on the free stuff. Many players have lifetime draft. Thats 3 packs for free at least per week they would be giving up. There are others that got the e-mail and immediately validated all of their codes, like the 1-year of 1 free draft per week. They would also be missing out on goodies they paid for.

styk182
05-07-2014, 03:55 PM
Anybody else feel like reading threads like these is like watching a political debate? One party totally polarized one way the other one is the exact opposite when in all reality, 80-90% of the population is somewhere in the middle. The sky isn't falling but it's not all sunshine and roses either. I do know that some of you would make great politicians though... for what that's worth.

hacky
05-07-2014, 03:56 PM
The bored and depressed twitch streamers aren't helping either.

I'm not bored or depressed. You should watch me stream Hex, tonight (Pacific Time). Link in signature.

Don't cherry pick random inexperienced streams and lump us all together as the same. Every game has streamers at various energy levels. And you're also making the mistake in confusing a caster's energy with their interest -- you're reading too deeply into it, given the rest of your post. You're looking for things to further your hyperbole.


On topic: I want tournaments, sucks that they're not online today (would cast drafts), and some of you guys are silly making doom threats on a game in development.

nicosharp
05-07-2014, 03:56 PM
Being diplomatic is not a skill. It is a curse.

Xexist
05-07-2014, 03:58 PM
Meh. Gamers are like cats. Easily distracted by shiny things and range from indifferent to bitchy towards anything that isn't feeding them. Fill their dish and you become the main attraction, regardless of when you fed them last.

Anyone that swears off of a game that's in development with no regard given to its content was never going to be a long term player anyway. It's not a big concern.

Awesome post :)

AswanJaguar
05-07-2014, 04:04 PM
This kind of dismissive attitude of any negative feedback is what is damaging this community and this game the most.

Your No True Scotsman accusation also serves no purpose other than to foster isolation and keep the community from growing. 'Only a real Hex fan would understand what's going on.'

You are happy posting on a forum about Hex every day. Others want to play the game as intended.

Hold the persecution complex. At no point did I accuse anyone of failing to be a True Scotsman. I'm also not talking about people who post concerns and complaints on the forums. Anyone that takes the time to register and post clearly wants the game to reach completion (dare I say "succeed?") My post was in reference to the legion of people who haven't put in the effort to get involved and have 'lost interest' in something they haven't even been invested in. Hex will be around a long time and a few additional weeks of lack of exposure is hardly going to matter in the long run.

I want to play the game as intended and as advertised as much or more than everyone else. I don't dismiss criticism directed toward CZE when it's valid and there's plenty of valid criticism currently. There are plenty of overblown concerns, however.

GatticusFinch
05-07-2014, 04:06 PM
Yeah dragonweather you're right! I hadn't thought it about it like that!

Wait, wait, wait. Are you meaning to tell me this game has only been in BETA this whole time!?

Also, I have absolutely zero interest in watching people stream proving grounds and I would say the viewer levels for Hex on twitch confirm that neither do most people.

AswanJaguar
05-07-2014, 04:07 PM
The only downside of this idea is losing out on the free stuff. Many players have lifetime draft. Thats 3 packs for free at least per week they would be giving up. There are others that got the e-mail and immediately validated all of their codes, like the 1-year of 1 free draft per week. They would also be missing out on goodies they paid for.

Lifetime drafters have lost nothing. If CZE has waited until tournaments ran flawlessly, these Kickstarters would have had to wait the same amount of time as they are going to have to now. The finite term free drafters (1 year, 3 years, whatever) are different, but they are getting their draft tickets extended, so they are not losing anything either.



Also, I have absolutely zero interest in watching people stream proving grounds and I would say the viewer levels for Hex on twitch confirm that neither do most people.

Confirmed. MythicFishMom's viewer count tripled as soon as he was able to enter a draft the other day.

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 04:31 PM
Meh. Gamers are like cats. Easily distracted by shiny things and range from indifferent to bitchy towards anything that isn't feeding them. Fill their dish and you become the main attraction, regardless of when you fed them last.

Anyone that swears off of a game that's in development with no regard given to its content was never going to be a long term player anyway. It's not a big concern.

You compare "gamers" (obviously Hex players who are unhappy in this context) to animals.

You purposely say "them" to exclude yourself from this.

Trying to elevate yourself above players who are unhappy with what is going on is certainly not the best way to help the community.

People can want the game to succeed and still be very disappointed with what's going on. Continuing to sit quietly and not questioning anything will not benefit anyone.

dragonweather
05-07-2014, 04:38 PM
Lifetime drafts are not giving up anything. They will get free drafts, when it works. The 1year drafts can always submit support tickets to get their issues resolved. And if you expected to play a BETA feature and not submit a support ticket for something, then you should be waiting for release.

AswanJaguar
05-07-2014, 04:45 PM
You compare "gamers" (obviously Hex players who are unhappy in this context) to animals.

You purposely say "them" to exclude yourself from this.

Trying to elevate yourself above players who are unhappy with what is going on is certainly not the best way to help the community.

People can want the game to succeed and still be very disappointed with what's going on. Continuing to sit quietly and not questioning anything will not benefit anyone.

My reference to gamers applies to all gamers, not solely unhappy Hex players. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise. I include myself as a gamer, though I'm old enough that I don't freak out over every last detail of a game's development. The rest of your post is based on a false premise so it's not really worth responding to other than I agree with your final paragraph and have never suggested otherwise.

I get that you're frustrated ryuukan, I'm not singling out the outspoken critics on the forums as much as you think that's the case. I'm just a dude who's very much looking forward to Hex and who has great respect for what the team over at CZE is accomplishing. If I see someone taking cheap shots at them, I'll call them out on it. If I see CZE making preventable mistakes, I'll call them out too. In the meantime, I continue to assist new players with their questions both in the forums and in-game and contribute constructively to ongoing discussions. I encourage everyone to do the same.

Axle
05-07-2014, 04:48 PM
Confirmed. MythicFishMom's viewer count tripled as soon as he was able to enter a draft the other day.

Well that was because almost no one else could get in draft and people wanted to see how it was working for those who could actually get in. I'm sure it would be different if we could all play draft.

Guap
05-07-2014, 04:53 PM
I love the people who keep telling us that it's beta, like we don't know what a beta is.... The alpha was a great deal more stable and more fun, and that was an alpha version of the game. Things have gone backwards. It's not normal for a game to launch a monetized beta and then lock it's main method of play for weeks on end. That's going to cause a lot of displeasure beta or not. Believe it or not we all know that it's beta, most of us have been here since the begining. Keep making your disparaging remarks about people who aren't happy with not being able to play though I'm sure it's going to be very helpful to the "community".

chili
05-07-2014, 04:55 PM
I love the people who keep telling us that it's beta, like we don't know what a beta is.... The alpha was a great deal more stable and more fun, and that was an alpha version of the game. Things have gone backwards. It's not normal for a game to launch a monetized beta and then lock it's main method of play for weeks on end. That's going to cause a lot of displeasure beta or not. Believe it or not we all know that it's beta, most of us have been here since the begining. Keep making your disparaging remarks about people who aren't happy with not being able to play though I'm sure it's going to be very helpful to the "community".

It's nice when people talk sense here instead of the neverending support and excuses for something that is completely screwed up.

Gwaer
05-07-2014, 04:56 PM
Nothing about Hex is normal, there has never been an alpha or first beta as large as this one in the history of gaming.

At this point in every other game ever developed the game has been seen by a handful of outsiders, not open to thousands of people.

AswanJaguar
05-07-2014, 04:57 PM
Keep making your disparaging remarks about people who aren't happy with not being able to play though I'm sure it's going to be very helpful to the "community".

If this is directed at me, can you please show me where I did this?

ryuukan
05-07-2014, 04:57 PM
I contribute by being the life of the party of Hex chat

Axle
05-07-2014, 04:58 PM
Nothing about Hex is normal, there has never been an alpha or first beta as large as this one in the history of gaming.

At this point in every other game ever developed the game has been seen by a handful of outsiders, not open to thousands of people.

Not sure if joking or just doesn't know gaming. Ever heard of Early Access on Steam?

chili
05-07-2014, 04:59 PM
Nothing about Hex is normal, there has never been an alpha or first beta as large as this one in the history of gaming.

At this point in every other game ever developed the game has been seen by a handful of outsiders, not open to thousands of people.

*cough* minecraft *cough* the zombie game the name escapes me *cough*Dota2 *cough*

dragonweather
05-07-2014, 04:59 PM
I love the people who keep telling us that it's beta, like we don't know what a beta is.... The alpha was a great deal more stable and more fun, and that was an alpha version of the game. Things have gone backwards. It's not normal for a game to launch a monetized beta and then lock it's main method of play for weeks on end. That's going to cause a lot of displeasure beta or not. Believe it or not we all know that it's beta, most of us have been here since the begining. Keep making your disparaging remarks about people who aren't happy with not being able to play though I'm sure it's going to be very helpful to the "community".
I don't think you know what the word beta means then. Because all those things happen during software development. Things break, as more things are added performance gets worse, and main features like buying things are tested.

Guap
05-07-2014, 05:02 PM
I don't think you know what the word beta means then. Because all those things happen during software development. Things break, as more things are added performance gets worse, and main features like buying things are tested.
Your right, I have no idea what a beta is, I'm so glad I have you here to explain it all to me in grand detail. Good thing we have people like you here to set us straight.

dragonweather
05-07-2014, 05:03 PM
Your right, I have no idea what a beta is, I'm so glad I have you here to explain it all to me in grand detail. Good thing we have people like you here to set us straight.

Your welcome.

Corpselocker
05-07-2014, 05:06 PM
Is the fishing tournament up yet? :)

dragonweather
05-07-2014, 05:06 PM
Your right, I have no idea what a beta is, I'm so glad I have you here to explain it all to me in grand detail. Good thing we have people like you here to set us straight.

Your welcome. " I don't understand how you launch a beta, monetize it and then take your main mode of play down for 2 weeks. Just seems like the game is in really, really, bad, bumbling,..." this is your post, to me it really does sound like you don't understand how software development process works. This game IS still being coded as we speak.

Gwaer
05-07-2014, 05:08 PM
I really don't think minecrafts alpha version had anywhere near the number of players hex had during its alpha, a cursory glance looking for some numbers on it turned up nothing. Though in true indie fashion it spent quite a while languishing without a huge user base before exploding. Granted I never really paid much attention to it. If you can show me a link I'll gladly concede that one to you.

Dota2 definitely wasn't seen in as early of a state as Hex. Development on dota 2 began in 2009, and users weren't allowed to play until 2011, We won't be where dota2 was when players started seeing it for another 6 months at least, I could make a case for a year, considering GPG's closure and having to restart development under CZE.