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View Full Version : Player-made decks for "Mixed lot" trading



nicosharp
05-08-2014, 08:37 AM
Much Better Idea presented by Kilo24:


Player-created deck lists. These deck lists should be integrated into the game so that they're easy to share with other players, but hitting "Buy now" on them should instead automatically buy only the cards that you don't already have at the cheapest price that they're available for on the AH. And once you have all the cards, you can add it as and treat it as just another one of your decks.




This idea stems from another thread but is basically:
Allow players to create a deck within their collection, and mark it as tradeable.
This deck could save in a separate tab, and move cards from their inventory to a trade tab. (depending on the trading inventory circumstances introduced by the auction house)


Potential challenges with this proposal:

Validating authentic decks (Assuring a free champion is linked, and it has at least 60 cards)
How to handle the trading of shards, or the resupply to players for traded shards?
Descriptions tied to trades on the AH, adding a description to the mixed lot.
Viewing all cards in the mixed lot before the trade.
This would introduce and allow mixed lot trading, which if it was not intended by the AH or in the games design, could be an issue.



Benefits:

Instant competitive Constructed access for players that just want to play a particular net-deck and do not want to buy the pieces of the deck individually
Other options for new players starting the game, that want a competitive price and more value when purchasing additional "starter decks"
Fun ways for players to pass on their deck concepts and ideas to others and create friendships through deck design. /Raid Decks/PvE dungeon decks/PvP decks/etc.
Tried and tested success for players that can be shared with a wide player base.
Descriptions that could be roadmaps to how to play the deck as additional benefit to newer players.
A way to quickly pass on something to a friend that you want to bring into the game that helps them learn and enjoy themselves.


Thoughts/ideas/confirmation from CZE around Mixed lot trading?

Turtlewing
05-08-2014, 08:45 AM
Direct player to player trades will almost certainly work in a "you each select some set of cards that get shown to the otehr player then once both of you have approved a purposed trade the transaction executes" model.

Personally I'd like to see the auction house handle mixed lots and non-curency bids that way you don't have to be online at the same time as your trading partner to make these sort of transactions.

Bells
05-08-2014, 09:28 AM
Buying and selling card lots is VERY common pratice in every TCG... i cannot imagine Hex would have an auction house that didn't let you sell controlled lots or sets. With that in place, selling decks is just super easy.

Kilo24
05-08-2014, 09:47 AM
I am somewhat tepid of this: since you can use 4 cards in as many decks as you want, chances are high that you'll be getting unnecessary cards. Moreover, these card lots are inflexible in a digital environment as it's much easier to break them into their component cards and value them individually; with a well-designed AH UI, you could post cards for sale en-masse at, say, the average price they sold for for the past 3 days so that it's just as convenient to the seller selling a card lot.

Let me propose an alternative: player-created deck lists. These deck lists should be integrated into the game so that they're easy to share with other players, but hitting "Buy now" on them should instead automatically buy only the cards that you don't already have at the cheapest price that they're available for on the AH. And once you have all the cards, you can add it as and treat it as just another one of your decks.

There are good reasons to do both, but if the effort of implementation demands that only one makes its way in, I'd prefer the deck lists.

Yoss
05-08-2014, 09:51 AM
Post 4 is much better than the OP, and could actually cover all mixed lots. Don't need to call it a "deck list". Just call it a "mixed lot". There should be zero need to have a card listed anywhere other than with other cards of the same name. Mixed lots should just be pointers to a bunch of individual item listings. This works for playsets too.

Bells
05-08-2014, 09:57 AM
The idea of putting together a deck and just click ''buy what i don't have'' and just have the game search the AH and give me the lowest price for my pickings would actually be phenomenal...

nicosharp
05-08-2014, 10:03 AM
The idea of putting together a deck and just click ''buy what i don't have'' and just have the game search the AH and give me the lowest price for my pickings would actually be phenomenal...

That would be pretty awesome. Solid idea Kilo.

Zomnivore
05-08-2014, 10:05 AM
I wouldn't mind featured decks you could build from famous tournaments, and then once you have the correct deck, cards you can put it in the AH, under a specific tab for 'premade decks'.

Love the above concepts too.

YourOpponent
05-08-2014, 10:26 AM
Let me propose an alternative: player-created deck lists. These deck lists should be integrated into the game so that they're easy to share with other players, but hitting "Buy now" on them should instead automatically buy only the cards that you don't already have at the cheapest price that they're available for on the AH. And once you have all the cards, you can add it as and treat it as just another one of your decks.


You sir are a genius! If I was a wealthy person I'd give you a primal pack for that idea!

Athravan
05-08-2014, 10:31 AM
I used to make a lot of gold in WoW from selling preconstructed sets of profession mats - the entire mats to get from 1 to max level in a profession, and I'd send them a guide with which skills to use to go with it. People would pay way more for that, than the individual mats simply for the convenience (okay, and a little bit of laziness I'm guessing). I wonder if it would be the same with decks.

LLCoolDave
05-08-2014, 10:37 AM
I'd actually expect the opposite. People will want a discount for taking 75 cards out of someone's stock in a single transaction. After all a complete deck is less liquid than the individual cards in it, and a full deck will include at least some cards that are normally harder to move than others.

Kilo24 pretty much has the most convenient implementation of this down, I'd love to see something like that eventually.

Kilo24
05-08-2014, 11:23 AM
I'd actually expect the opposite. People will want a discount for taking 75 cards out of someone's stock in a single transaction. After all a complete deck is less liquid than the individual cards in it, and a full deck will include at least some cards that are normally harder to move than others.
Until you know how the UI will turn out, it's going to be hard to say how much convenience will play a role. In WoW, it was a pain to gather all the mats and recipes for power-leveling a crafting skill even from the AH. That's partially from the random nature of some of the skill gains, partially from the sheer amount of mats you had to grab, and partially because the AH was mostly designed around auctions of either single items or stacks of identical items. It took you going and finding an auction for each and every item you'd need, deciding how much of it you wanted, and finding the cheapest per-unit cost that wouldn't leave you with much left over. I can definitely see the convenience there being worth a good bit.

In Hex... well, it's hard to say for sure. If my idea for deck lists happens to be implemented, the average card lot isn't going to be that useful for selling decks. But if the original poster's idea is implemented and buying each card individually takes a decent amount of effort (like sorting through AA, achievements and experience on each card), then people probably would pay for convenience. Without firsthand experience of the AH and how they plan to enhance it, it's hard to say.

The other thing to note with my idea is that whereas deck lists are useful for decks alone, card lots can easily be adapted to handle lots of other items as well. We know Hex will have a crafting system with leveling and recipes, so it may turn out that Athravan's WoW business strategy may be directly applicable here.

Viziroth
05-08-2014, 11:50 AM
I'd really like mixed lot sales, but I wouldn't limit it to decks. One thing I'd really like to do is trade an entire play set of commons, since I currently have 3... So I'd love to list an entire playset for a "bundle" price, and maybe sell it faster. This will also allow people to maybe sell entire play sets, or the "green power bundle" full of random green fatties.

Dynimix
05-08-2014, 12:06 PM
The thing I like about the original post...it simulates what could be done in real life. I will trade you this deck for X deck and the negotiating could happen between players.

Turtlewing
05-08-2014, 01:05 PM
I am somewhat tepid of this: since you can use 4 cards in as many decks as you want, chances are high that you'll be getting unnecessary cards. Moreover, these card lots are inflexible in a digital environment as it's much easier to break them into their component cards and value them individually; with a well-designed AH UI, you could post cards for sale en-masse at, say, the average price they sold for for the past 3 days so that it's just as convenient to the seller selling a card lot.

Let me propose an alternative: player-created deck lists. These deck lists should be integrated into the game so that they're easy to share with other players, but hitting "Buy now" on them should instead automatically buy only the cards that you don't already have at the cheapest price that they're available for on the AH. And once you have all the cards, you can add it as and treat it as just another one of your decks.

There are good reasons to do both, but if the effort of implementation demands that only one makes its way in, I'd prefer the deck lists.

That actually kills the market for constructed decks as the seller has no way to recover the cost of assembling the list (they have to price the components at market value).

It's nice if you were planning to net-deck, but it's pretty terrible if you were planning to make some profit designing budget decks for new players.

Yoss
05-08-2014, 01:25 PM
That actually kills the market for constructed decks as the seller has no way to recover the cost of assembling the list (they have to price the components at market value).

It's nice if you were planning to net-deck, but it's pretty terrible if you were planning to make some profit designing budget decks for new players.

I was assuming you'd tack on a fee to click through your automated purchase list. So yes, the buyer would just grab all the stuff at market price after clicking through your listing, but would have to pay you some amount first.

Turtlewing
05-08-2014, 01:59 PM
I was assuming you'd tack on a fee to click through your automated purchase list. So yes, the buyer would just grab all the stuff at market price after clicking through your listing, but would have to pay you some amount first.

The thing is the feature as described was a way to share deck lists not to sell them. Implied is that anyone who has the list can share it with anyone else, and no interface for selling the list was mentioned.

It would probably be worth describing that "click through your listing" bit in grater detail because I think you have a good idea there, but trying to figure out what you mean I'm only coming up with something that would be a clusterfuck of spammed listings competing to be the one you click on so they get the commission.

Kilo24
05-08-2014, 02:25 PM
That actually kills the market for constructed decks as the seller has no way to recover the cost of assembling the list (they have to price the components at market value).

It's nice if you were planning to net-deck, but it's pretty terrible if you were planning to make some profit designing budget decks for new players.

It would indeed remove the profit motive from designing decks. But, unless the Auction House's interface is absolutely terrible, I don't expect there to be much profit from it in the first place: you'd always be able to buy the cards individually. The benefit of having a convenient prepackaged deck is unlikely to be enough to warrant rebuying many cards that you may have, and so this feature would largely be relegated to people who are either new or don't care much about their money.

It is also questionable that people getting paid for making decks are going to be motivated to make good decks instead of just tossing in the cards that they have loads of. With that in mind, and that I don't think that many people are going to be particularly interested in manufacturing decks for the little profit they would get, constructed decks would not seem to be a substantial market in the first place. It makes much more sense in a physical TCG.

Deck lists would not be able to be profited from. At least, I don't think there would be much profit from them even if the suggestion Yoss had was implemented: you're simply charging extra for bypassing purchasing the cards individually. And I hope that the AH UI would not be so bad that it would be particularly useful. Deck lists are purely a convenience feature, but I think they'd be used a heck of a lot more than selling separate constructed decks.

Turtlewing
05-08-2014, 03:01 PM
Deck lists would not be able to be profited from. At least, I don't think there would be much profit from them even if the suggestion Yoss had was implemented: you're simply charging extra for bypassing purchasing the cards individually. And I hope that the AH UI would not be so bad that it would be particularly useful. Deck lists are purely a convenience feature, but I think they'd be used a heck of a lot more than selling separate constructed decks.

That's called "paying for convenience". And it happens all the time (some industries operate almost entirely on people being more willing to pay to have someone else do a thing they could do themselves).

Kilo24
05-08-2014, 03:49 PM
That's called "paying for convenience". And it happens all the time (some industries operate almost entirely on people being more willing to pay to have someone else do a thing they could do themselves).

Absolutely. Paying for convenience is frequent, and it holds a major place in trading card games as well as in MMOs - Hex's parent genres. But to have that be a substantial business, you need enough people willing to pay for it. With the already existing convenience of the digital Auction House and never needing more than 4 cards in a deck, I do not see the specific feature of selling preconstructed decks gaining enough customers to warrant its existence - and it certainly is not good grounds on its own to avoid implementing a feature that many people would find very convenient.

In a physical TCG, preconstructed decks are viable to sell. But I don't see that happening here.

Fateanomaly
05-08-2014, 07:40 PM
If i buy a lot of cards, i expect there to be a discount overall.

malloc31
05-09-2014, 10:16 AM
I think this may lead to lots of people playing 100% identical decks.

Slaeer
05-09-2014, 10:11 PM
If this is more for sharing deck lists rather than selling them, why not list these in your keep. Like you would create a deck, then name it and label it with a general genre like "aggro" or "mill" etc. Then there would be a separate interface that people can look for decks to play and search for things like "ruby aggro"and it will pull up a list of player made decks that have ruby shards and are categorized as aggro. If they like it and want to play it, there can be a separate button that you click and it takes you to the ah and lists the cards you don't have.

Also the interface Can have a way to rate decks by how often they've been "bought" or players can plus one the decks they've played and liked. This will help bring a little friendly competition and even "status" as like a good deck maker. I think this would also be easier for most fan sites that posts decks, players can just go straight to that person's keep to see what they have. You could also post comments or suggestions to help. Or, say someone "bought"your deck and played it, then tweeked it a little, they could post this new deck on their keep and Reference or mention your name with it.

Just a way to keep the community interacting with each other instead of just an ah interface

Edit: just thought of, if you wanted to monetize it, you could just add like pay 50 plat to click the button and it take you to the ah and list what cards you don't have. Or you could always write the list down and figure it out yourself. The plat would be a convenience fee with some if not all going to the player.

Stok3d
05-10-2014, 08:51 AM
I prefer boxed sets only.


I would like the capacity to create a boxed set. The process then proceeds as follows:


All the specific individual cards from a singular set are placed into a deck.
Individual then clicks one of two choices "Create Non-Foil Set" or "Create Foil Set".
System Check is then completed to see if individual meets the prereqs for Set Creation
After Check passes and all cards present with no erroneous additions, Passcode and Mobile Authenicator entered
System warning states "This process is irreversible. All achievements, XP, and data associated with cards will be permanently reset and cards will be placed into a boxed set. Foiled sets will only retain respective XP Flag completion.
After confirmation completed, cards disappear from account and an icon'd tradable set populates in inventory.
Sets can then be sold on AH if so desired.


Thoughts?



I am a trader at heart. That being the case, I see having opened ended lots on the AH as a very significant time sink for ppl to peruse. Lets pretend there are 5,000 mixed lots up at any one time. A bargain hunter could literally spend all waking hours of a day wading through these daily. I guess the main reason I am against these is selfish as I don't want to feel compelled to be one of these ppl ^ ^. My suggestion created an organized and uniform lot (entire set). We're asking for 50-500x card lots to be a norm in this regard and then one has to cross reference pricing to see if this is "truly a deal". The time sink this will add to many will be absurd.

As pandora's box has already been opened, I'll better refine what's happening to include:


Proper Lot Creation Gold Sinks

Creation of Lot
Adding a Title
Renaming Title


If one wouldn't stipulate a title, it would default to something like: 254c, 88u, 5r. If titles were added, then you could see:

Complete Set1 Commons
Account Sellout - 13422 Cards!
7328 cards Block 1
Complete DragonLord Set w/ Princess Cory Bonus
11,443 Draft Leftovers
Set1 Fully Unlocked Chieves
CBB World's Deck



It's both a curse and a blessing. If this comes into fruition, I guarantee you'll be thinking the same...

Stok3d
05-10-2014, 08:52 AM
double post removed