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Osthall
05-08-2014, 01:50 PM
I've already mentioned this to HEXRex in chat, but I just auto-lost a round of draft for timing out. I'm new to drafting, and nowhere is it explained that the 30m clock has to cover all three rounds. I'm just relaying it here because this seriously needs to be explained to new drafters asap, as like me they will need to take time reading the cards. I feel like I just wasted my entry fee.

Yoss
05-08-2014, 02:47 PM
I'd support a pop-up when joining any queue that has instructions and details about the queue you're joining. The pop-up would have the "click here to never see this again" option, but would be a huge help for newbies like the OP here.

Pentregarth
05-08-2014, 02:59 PM
I'd actually vote for increasing the time, maybe to 45 minutes for the entire tournament. So far I have both won and lost games due to running out of time, and in no case did any of the players idle around - 2 rounds are usually no problem, but if the match isn't decided after the second round, the third round usually only has very little time left and it basically comes down to who has more time on his clock. Rather unsatisfying, especially when you consider that a third round being played means everything is still open and the two players are evenly matched.

Yoss
05-08-2014, 03:01 PM
No, please no. Draft already takes 4 hours. No need to extend that even further. An hour is plenty for a match.

Vorpal
05-08-2014, 03:05 PM
Yeah, draft doesn't need to take longer.

Pentregarth
05-08-2014, 03:23 PM
No, please no. Draft already takes 4 hours. No need to extend that even further. An hour is plenty for a match.

I don't know, if Bo3's ending due to timeout is a thing that happens frequently - and from my impression, it is - I think more time is needed

Svenn
05-08-2014, 03:25 PM
I don't know, if Bo3's ending due to timeout is a thing that happens frequently - and from my impression, it is - I think more time is needed

In all my drafts in the Alpha I think I only ever had a match end due to timeout once. Most games should last about 15 minutes unless you are intentionally trying to slow the game down.

Pentregarth
05-08-2014, 03:27 PM
Exactly, 15 minutes per game. This means you get to finish 2 of the 3 games needed for a bo3 if both players win one game each...

Svenn
05-08-2014, 03:31 PM
Exactly, 15 minutes per game. This means you get to finish 2 of the 3 games needed for a bo3 if both players win one game each...
You have an hour, 30 minutes per player. A game should take 15 minutes, ~7.5 minutes per player. 3 games = 45 minutes, or 22.5 minutes per player.

mach
05-08-2014, 03:32 PM
No, please no. Draft already takes 4 hours. No need to extend that even further. An hour is plenty for a match.

A hour is plenty for a match when you have a release-quality client.

Until then they should give people more time to compensate for the bugs and UI inefficiencies which haven't been fixed yet.

Pentregarth
05-08-2014, 03:33 PM
Ah, yeah, misunderstood you there, sorry. My experience has been different, but then again, maybe you play faster than me.

Shadowspawn
05-08-2014, 03:42 PM
The problem is not the amount of time. If you notice, the timer both in tournies and elsewhere is constantly ticking in spots you don't have priority. So, you aren't really getting your 30 min.

Against the AI, I can't even make a play until the timer has gone to 29:30 ish. That is 30 secs lost for no reason.

Svenn
05-08-2014, 03:44 PM
The problem is not the amount of time. If you notice, the timer both in tournies and elsewhere is constantly ticking in spots you don't have priority. So, you aren't really getting your 30 min.

Against the AI, I can't even make a play until the timer has gone to 29:30 ish. That is 30 secs lost for no reason.
I'm not in game right now so I can't confirm... but it's been doing this since the alpha as just a display bug. The timer snaps back shortly after. It'll show it ticking down for an extra several seconds and when the next move happens the timer jumps back up to the proper time.

Rycajo
05-08-2014, 03:44 PM
I played dozens of drafts in the alpha and I never once had a match end by time - my own timer or the opponent. Even in matches where I chatted it up with my opponent, I never got below 5 minutes. However, I was already familiar with Set 1 before drafting became an option. I imagine things could change for me with a brand new set.

I agree that during the testing phase of the game, a little more time could be necessary to accommodate client inefficiencies. However, I sure hope that competitive queues keep to this established time limit. Perhaps swiss queues could give additional time to the participants as a feature of the queue aimed at the more casual/new player?

Cotton
05-08-2014, 03:46 PM
A hour is plenty for a match when you have a release-quality client.

Until then they should give people more time to compensate for the bugs and UI inefficiencies which haven't been fixed yet.

I agree with this. Bump it up to 40-45mins until the UI is up to par.

Svenn
05-08-2014, 03:48 PM
I agree with this. Bump it up to 40-45mins until the UI is up to par.

I'm curious... what's wrong with the UI that makes anything take longer? I haven't had any issues that have caused my turns to take longer than they should.

Yoss
05-08-2014, 03:57 PM
Match limit at 1 hour! It's hard enough finding 4 hour blocks for drafting. Anything more than that is absurd. The timer is fair (equally bad for everyone). Complain about it, get CZE to fix it, but do not extend it.

nick7575
05-08-2014, 04:06 PM
I think the timer is fine, they should just add a way to 'pass all priority' so early turns go faster

Pentregarth
05-08-2014, 04:17 PM
The timer is fair (equally bad for everyone).

While I agree that "equally bad for everyone" is kind of fair, it hardly makes for an enjoyable game experience, whether you're on the winning or losing side of the timeout...

Refugee
05-08-2014, 04:28 PM
I've rarely had anyone drop below 15 minutes remaining in any of my draft games (even the matches that go to game 3). Keep in mind the longer you extend the timer the longer everyone who is faster than you has to wait. This isn't an innocent everyone wins change. It drags things out for anyone not eating up their entire clock.

Saqcat
05-08-2014, 05:00 PM
As in magic online time managament is an important skill. 30 minutes are more than enough.

Shadowspawn
05-08-2014, 05:57 PM
The problem is not the amount of time. If you notice, the timer both in tournies and elsewhere is constantly ticking in spots you don't have priority. So, you aren't really getting your 30 min.

Against the AI, I can't even make a play until the timer has gone to 29:30 ish. That is 30 secs lost for no reason.

Shadowspawn
05-08-2014, 06:03 PM
I'm not in game right now so I can't confirm... but it's been doing this since the alpha as just a display bug. The timer snaps back shortly after. It'll show it ticking down for an extra several seconds and when the next move happens the timer jumps back up to the proper time.

For me it seems real and not a bug. Although... I've never had it go to zero so who knows. Either way the display timer needs tweaking to work properly.

Svenn
05-08-2014, 07:29 PM
So I just played a draft match... we finished 3 games and each had 15 minutes left on our clocks. Not only that, I won 2 games through milling...

Deathfog
05-08-2014, 07:37 PM
20 minutes for a best of 3 set is quite sufficient. 30 minutes is quite generous as you would most likely be holding up other games if you drifted near that range.

Oroniss
05-08-2014, 07:43 PM
Yeah, I suspect it has something to do with latency/lag, since quite a few people mentioning it are playing from overseas.

I think 30 minutes for a match is perfectly reasonable, even a little on the generous side (MTG for FNM used to give us 45 minutes for both players and was more than enough) but they do need to stop the timer counting down while it's synching up and stuff. TCGs are one type of game that shouldn't be hurt by latency.

I'm sure it will get fixed, but for some of us it is definitely an issue.

GatticusFinch
05-08-2014, 08:13 PM
I just played a game with a ton of timer issues.

1. Opponent was selecting a card for me to discard, and MY timer was going down the entire time.

2. No matter how fast I smashed pass priority, I would lose 5-10 seconds. Even when I had no stops set up, I would lose time.

3. I don't think it is necessarily lag related, because it was running fine on my desktop. When I tried to play it on my laptop on the same connection, I was losing a lot more time. Hex managed to drain 60% of my battery just through drafting cards and one matched. I think it is just poorly optimized and that is causing more time to come off.

Osthall
05-08-2014, 08:56 PM
Hey guys, I appreciate the discussion this has prompted but whether or not the timer needs increasing isn't my issue - my issue is that I was never informed that the timer does not refresh between games. It's pretty logical to see the 30m timer and think "cool I have loads of time for these matches" and just not notice it again. This is especially the case as you have 30m for a single game in the proving grounds; which has been my only prior experience.

GatticusFinch
05-08-2014, 09:10 PM
Well, they aren't going to change that. It is MTG standard and they are already slow enough as it is. They should up them because the timer doesn't actually work, but I very much doubt they increase it whenever they actually fix the buggy timer.

AswanJaguar
05-08-2014, 09:16 PM
Hey guys, I appreciate the discussion this has prompted but whether or not the timer needs increasing isn't my issue - my issue is that I was never informed that the timer does not refresh between games. It's pretty logical to see the 30m timer and think "cool I have loads of time for these matches" and just not notice it again. This is especially the case as you have 30m for a single game in the proving grounds; which has been my only prior experience.

With time the user experience will improve in game. CZE has tutorials planned to introduce players to different play formats and I would only assume that this would be covered in any introduction to tournament play. Your point is valid, new players should be made aware that running out of time will result in a match loss and that the timer is the same for all 3 games of a match.

nickon
05-09-2014, 02:25 AM
Would be good to bump up the timer temporarily to 40mins untill we get a more fluent interface and pass priority mechanics. Afterwards it can be lowered again to not extend the drafts for too long.

But I see where this is coming from, as a new player myself I've been under time pressure as well during my first drafts due to this.

Zaxian
05-09-2014, 08:16 AM
I've already mentioned this to HEXRex in chat, but I just auto-lost a round of draft for timing out. I'm new to drafting, and nowhere is it explained that the 30m clock has to cover all three rounds. I'm just relaying it here because this seriously needs to be explained to new drafters asap, as like me they will need to take time reading the cards. I feel like I just wasted my entry fee.
Thanks for drawing attention to this, I've not drafted online/seriously before and I wouldn't have guessed that that's how it worked. (I'm not planning on drafting until swiss is available so I haven't encountered it myself yet).

I like the idea of having extended timers until the UI is a bit more responsive, and the idea of having an extended timer queue (perhaps for swiss only).

The_Lannisters
05-09-2014, 10:16 AM
Yeah, draft doesn't need to take longer.

I'm sorry but I think you should not comment on a thread about drafting timers after creating your own thread "I played ( only ONE ) draft and it was a horrid experience due to being flooded/screwed , never again, long life to Hearthstone"

As I said on the other thread about this subject my timers go down fast not because I'm in la la land making slow decisions BUT because of all the lags and whatnot.

Perhaps is it true that this is affecting mainly non Americans? ( like myself )

Gwaer
05-09-2014, 11:03 AM
I won a draft with 1.5 minutes on the clock yesterday. It was incredibly exhilarating, my opponent had 6 minutes, and I was having to spam space bar and make smart plays simultaneously. Being under a time constraint and pulling out the win just felt so good.

i did notice a couple of seconds being lost when I was unable to take an action even spamming space, that is non optimal. It deed seem to affect both timers however. If it's worse when out of the country they do need to figure out a way to add time back to the clock based on your latency.