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israel.kendall
05-09-2014, 09:15 AM
How exactly is it supposed to work? I used it on a honeycap and the reversion sent it to the graveyard. But I used it on a briar legion and basically nothing happened. Working as intended?

LLCoolDave
05-09-2014, 09:18 AM
Yes. The Honeycap gets a stat boost when it enters play as a one time trigger. If you revert it, it returns to the 0/0 size it is printed at and dies. The Briar Legions have a passive stat change, where their size gets modified depending on the number of Briar Legions cast this game, which is an independently tracked variable. If you revert a Briar Legion, it returns to the wording it is printed as, which is a 0/0 which gets a boost for every Briar Legion played so far this game. This is not a triggered ability but rather a continuous effect and is thus not really affected by reversion.

Scammanator
05-09-2014, 09:27 AM
Yes. The Honeycap gets a stat boost when it enters play as a one time trigger. If you revert it, it returns to the 0/0 size it is printed at and dies. The Briar Legions have a passive stat change, where their size gets modified depending on the number of Briar Legions cast this game, which is an independently tracked variable. If you revert a Briar Legion, it returns to the wording it is printed as, which is a 0/0 which gets a boost for every Briar Legion played so far this game. This is not a triggered ability but rather a continuous effect and is thus not really affected by reversion.

Well stated.

hashinshin
05-09-2014, 09:30 AM
The game makes sense if you think about it.


Sometimes you just have to think... a lot...

Damascus
05-09-2014, 09:34 AM
yup, it's a state-based effect, so reverting it does nothing

primer
05-09-2014, 09:37 AM
So if Briar Legion read 'As Briar Legion enters play...' then revert would kill it?

Svenn
05-09-2014, 09:38 AM
So if Briar Legion read 'As Briar Legion enters play...' then revert would kill it?
Correct.

dwebber88
05-09-2014, 09:40 AM
So if Briar Legion read 'As Briar Legion enters play...' then revert would kill it?

Well technically yes, but there is no such card.

The explanation refers to "gets +2 +2 for every # that has entered play". you cant revert how many have entered play.

primer
05-09-2014, 09:45 AM
Well technically yes, but there is no such card.

The explanation refers to "gets +2 +2 for every # that has entered play". you cant revert how many have entered play.

So shouldn't the Briar Legions in your hand just become 2/2 or 4/4 in your hand, would make it much easier to understand.

Svenn
05-09-2014, 09:49 AM
So shouldn't the Briar Legions in your hand just become 2/2 or 4/4 in your hand, would make it much easier to understand.
No, because the text on the cards is not in effect while they are in your hand. Text on cards is only in effect while a card is in play.

I don't think there's anything in the game right now that it would matter for... but if there was a card in the future that had something like "Reveal a troop in your hand. Deal damage equal to an opposing troop equal to your troop's attack" or something then it would matter.

israel.kendall
05-09-2014, 09:56 AM
Thanks for the clarification. Makes a little better sense now.

Stopsight
05-09-2014, 10:22 AM
No, because the text on the cards is not in effect while they are in your hand. Text on cards is only in effect while a card is in play.

I don't think there's anything in the game right now that it would matter for... but if there was a card in the future that had something like "Reveal a troop in your hand. Deal damage equal to an opposing troop equal to your troop's attack" or something then it would matter.

There is already BTW. Howling ambush

Svenn
05-09-2014, 10:29 AM
There is already BTW. Howling ambush
I was thinking about that, but I was thinking of it wrong. I mis-remembered it as the troop entering play doing damage to any troop, not a troop in your hand doing damage to a troop entering play. ;) Well, there you go... there's one case already where this distinction matters.

Turtlewing
05-09-2014, 03:12 PM
No, because the text on the cards is not in effect while they are in your hand. Text on cards is only in effect while a card is in play.

I don't think there's anything in the game right now that it would matter for... but if there was a card in the future that had something like "Reveal a troop in your hand. Deal damage equal to an opposing troop equal to your troop's attack" or something then it would matter.

It matters for Zombie Plague when the Legions are in your deck (as they are now the become a Zombie if the gets selected, with the change they may take several -1/-1 s before they have 0 or less def and become a zombie if you've played some of them)

halfwing
05-09-2014, 03:18 PM
No, because the text on the cards is not in effect while they are in your hand. Text on cards is only in effect while a card is in play.
Argus and Infernal Tutor'd cards would like a word with you :P

But yes. For 99% of all cases, a card is practically blank while in your hand/deck/graveyard/void. The only time that is not the case, is when the card specifically says otherwise that it remains active, or another card says so (like with Blessing the Fallen or Argus)

Svenn
05-09-2014, 03:33 PM
Argus and Infernal Tutor'd cards would like a word with you :P

But yes. For 99% of all cases, a card is practically blank while in your hand/deck/graveyard/void. The only time that is not the case, is when the card specifically says otherwise that it remains active, or another card says so (like with Blessing the Fallen or Argus)
Well yeah, those cards specifically reference your hand so of course they are the exception to the rule. ;) The general rule is text on cards is not in effect unless they are in play, but specific text always overrides the basic rules.

Aradon
05-09-2014, 10:28 PM
Reversion's ability has been clarified in one of the FAQs to remove changes with a listed duration (such as until end of turn or permanent) but not affect changes with no listed duration. Off the top of my head, I'd guess that Honeycap says it gets a permanent bonus while Briar Legion does not specify a duration.

Gwaer
05-10-2014, 12:16 AM
The key portion is actually that honeycap says "when it enters play it gains" while briar legion says, "this troop gets XX for each that has entered play this game"

So you revert a honeycap, it is not entering play, so it stays a 0/0 and dies. On the other hand X briar legions have still entered play at minimum 1, and their A/D is always equal to that number, the revert doesn't change anything.

YourOpponent
05-10-2014, 03:07 AM
Also reverting gives back the one shot abilities from things such as Mancubus. They did fix it right so that revert doesn't remove gems from sockets right?

ossuary
05-10-2014, 06:29 AM
They said that was fixed, I haven't personally tested it though.

cferejohn
05-10-2014, 07:59 AM
Reversion's ability has been clarified in one of the FAQs to remove changes with a listed duration (such as until end of turn or permanent) but not affect changes with no listed duration. Off the top of my head, I'd guess that Honeycap says it gets a permanent bonus while Briar Legion does not specify a duration.

That is correct. Honeycap's text: As this troop enters play it gets a permanent +1/+1 for each (wild) you have.

whythelastman
05-10-2014, 12:14 PM
The Threshold (HEX fan site) mentioned in their common / uncommon set 1 draft grades that Cory said Revert was under drafted and would be something worth grabbing. So glad for this thread. I'm in a tourney right now and followed the advice. Lessee what happens...

cferejohn
05-10-2014, 12:22 PM
It's kind of a nice little swiss army knife of a card. It turns off several pieces of removal. It can be used as a combat trick on a temporarily or permanently buffed creature, and it can tempo the hell out of someone who has spent a lot of time and resource transforming something into a threat.

israel.kendall
05-10-2014, 12:42 PM
The Threshold (HEX fan site) mentioned in their common / uncommon set 1 draft grades that Cory said Revert was under drafted and would be something worth grabbing. So glad for this thread. I'm in a tourney right now and followed the advice. Lessee what happens...

I was using a mantis that procs revert when you play it. Worked out pretty well for me, except against the briar legions LOL.

Vorpal
05-10-2014, 03:17 PM
By the way, I think the star reversion I saw was on something like an 8-5 war hulk.

It got knocked down to a 1-1 worker bot :D :D

israel.kendall
05-10-2014, 03:50 PM
Ouch!

Svenn
05-10-2014, 11:51 PM
Reversion is definitely undervalued currently. There are a LOT of modifications in just about any deck. It really hurts Incantations or Soul Marble (and is so satisfying watching something transform and putting it right back to the beginning). It can be used as removal when you block (or are blocked by) a bigger troop that was buffed and you revert it back (or a troop life honeycap). You can use it to remove things like Inner Conflict or other debuffs. So many uses. :-D

israel.kendall
05-11-2014, 12:02 AM
Reversion is definitely undervalued currently. There are a LOT of modifications in just about any deck. It really hurts Incantations or Soul Marble (and is so satisfying watching something transform and putting it right back to the beginning). It can be used as removal when you block (or are blocked by) a bigger troop that was buffed and you revert it back (or a troop life honeycap). You can use it to remove things like Inner Conflict or other debuffs. So many uses. :-D

Yeah, I played two copies of reversion during a sealed tournament last night. Found many uses for them, and yes one of the best is removing that pesky inner conflict!

israel.kendall
05-11-2014, 09:23 AM
I just thought about something, can reversion be cast on a solitary exile? Should this free your exiled card?

Aradon
05-11-2014, 09:51 AM
No, Solitary Exile has triggered abilities, but no changes are ever made to the card, so there is nothing to revert.

israel.kendall
05-11-2014, 09:52 AM
OK makes sense, thanks.

LLCoolDave
05-11-2014, 09:56 AM
Reverting a Solitary Exile in play might remove the information of which card it tracks, so if it eventually leaves play the voided permanent might not return. I doubt it, but it might be worth testing just to be sure.

Has anybody tested what happens when you revert a Vampire created with Vampire King. Does control of it switch back to the owner or not? It probably doesn't but again, would be nice to have it tested.