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UDareUTake
05-12-2014, 02:53 AM
Is there a possibility that Draft Tickets could be made tradable in future? or are there any concerns if draft tickets were to be made tradable?

Not a crucial requirement, but just thought it would be good if I can gift draft tickets to my friends to play instead of rare drafting them away.

primer
05-12-2014, 05:20 AM
Tickets are there to be used, that's why you cant pay for a draft with packs and plat while you own a ticket. Why not just give your friends 3 packs and 100 plat?

UDareUTake
05-12-2014, 05:44 AM
Tickets are there to be used, that's why you cant pay for a draft with packs and plat while you own a ticket. Why not just give your friends 3 packs and 100 plat?

Yup I understand there are other ways such as giving my friends 3packs+100 plat etc, but just curious why the tickets are not tradable.

I dun mind if tickets are not able to be placed into the auction house, but is able to be gifted to another person.

Its just something I thought about when my friend asked me whether is the ticket tradable anot.

Chiany
05-12-2014, 06:15 AM
Maybe they made them untradable to prevent selling of those tickets?

Thrawn
05-12-2014, 06:47 AM
Maybe they made them untradable to prevent selling of those tickets?

This seems like the correct answer to me. Otherwise anyone with drafts for life/year/whatever can just not even play, eBay the tickets and pocket the money instead of CZE getting it.

UDareUTake
05-12-2014, 11:00 AM
Guess that should be the main reason for making them untradable,

though Im not 100% sure how big a difference or impact it would make if it was tradable though.

The only usage for me is sharing with my friends so I can put the draft ticket to good use instead of rare drafting (not worth for set 1 at least) when Im busy.

It'll be good as the tickets can be used as prizes for luckydraws/gifts as well.

But guess for now, we'll just have to see how it goes

ZillahEnoch
05-12-2014, 06:37 PM
While I understand that weekly draft tickets should not be tradable in order to maintain the "guaranteed" user base they provide, I think that regular tickets should be. They are already in a limited quantity so they are not "farmable" and they provide a really straightforward way to introduce friends to drafting.

Also, I wanted to answer this in its own thread (http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=35522&p=366655&viewfull=1#post366655) but it felt it belonged more in this one.

For real my one complaint is this: Being forced to use my draft tokens before my packs + plat in drafts then being told I couldn't have saved them to pay for set2 drafts anyway! I mean a draft token is a draft token, and if they guys that get a free one each week can use them for set 2 why can't I?
I feel that it is a legitimate complaint. You should be able to choose what you draft with. People with weekly free drafts will probably be saving their regular draft tickets for later sets when those 3 free packs are more valuable (I know I am). Why would people with lower rewards not be able to do the same ?

Axle
05-12-2014, 06:41 PM
#1: Trading Tickets would be nice for teaching friends, that I agree.
#2: I think it's only temporary. It might be that they want to preserve the value of set 2 as much as they can and don't want the kickstarter (other then the few set 2 packs given as bonus) to influence it. The 1 year/draft for life kinda breaks that but that was part of the sell for HEX to get so much kickstarter support.

Turtlewing
05-13-2014, 09:56 AM
The reason tickets aren't tradable is (most likely) because CZE wants us paying for drafts.

The draft tickets are more of a "first one's free" deal than a sustainable way to draft for free by design.

UDareUTake
05-13-2014, 10:37 AM
Hi Turtle,

Im actually looking more at the weekly free drafts for life tickets, so Im not sure how much does that affect CZE or the community if there were to be made tradable, though ppl selling their free lifetime draft tickets might be of some small concern?

noragar
05-13-2014, 11:09 AM
It's like taking your family of 8 to a restaurant with free beverage refills, buying one Coke, sharing it among everyone at the table and going back again and again for more refills. The free drafts are meant to be used by one person, not shared among many.

In the case of selling the free drafts, it would be like buying one plate at an all-you-can-eat buffet, then setting up a table in the corner selling food to other customers that you've taken off the buffet.

UDareUTake
05-13-2014, 11:15 AM
For both of your examples, i feel it is slightly out of context,

I get a coupon which the restaurant provides me with 1 can of coke per week. I go with my family, I dun feel like drinking the coke, so I gave it to them, instead of wasting the coke.

I get a coupon for free-entry to buffet once per week, I dun feel like eating, I give the coupon to my friend.

In both of your examples you are taking into account that I am taking an unlimited amount of supply of tickets (refillable drinks,buffet) and constantly give them out. As much as free weekly drafts for life is unlimited, I am not taking anything more than I am entitled to, which is 1 draft a week, which in your 2 examples are basing on the assumption that I am taking from an unlimited pile of drafts and giving them out freely and at the same time using them for myself and causing a significant loss for CZE

noragar
05-13-2014, 11:27 AM
It would depend upon what conditions were placed on your coupons when they were given to you. If there were no conditions, then they could be shared however you wish. But if they are printed with your name on them and you need to show ID when redeeming them, and it was specified that they were for you and you alone to use, then you shouldn't be able to share them with others.

UDareUTake
05-13-2014, 11:36 AM
Which brings me here to ask about this in the first place.

Because in a way, I felt there seem to be minimal impact of making draft tickets tradable, but I would like to see what kind of concerns are there regarding this matter that I couldnt see etc

noragar
05-13-2014, 11:47 AM
Whoever buys/receives your free draft ticket is presumably doing so because they are intending to enter a draft with it. If they don't get the draft ticket from you, they would need to get 100 platinum and 3 booster packs from some other source. If they get it from the AH or some other source, then there is 100 platinum and 3 boosters fewer available there for someone else to obtain. Eventually, we get to the end of the chain where someone who would have had to buy the 700 platinum from CZE no longer had to.

This costs CZE $7.00. Not really a "significant" loss, but multiply that by the total number of times this happens and it starts to become more significant.

The kickstarter rewards were priced and balanced with the assumption that a certain percentage of free drafts would not be used for various reasons. If the policy were changed so that a higher percentage of drafts would be used, then that lost revenue has to be either absorbed out of profits, or passed along to the customers in some other way. I don't think it's feasible to go back to all kickstarters above King and ask them to put in an extra $10-20 to make up the difference. How would you suggest rebalancing things to pay for the change in policy?

Hatts
05-13-2014, 12:32 PM
@UDareUTake Your missing the fact that when you paid for your weekly free* buffet ticket it was clearly stated that it was non-transferable and you would need to present your membership card and photo ID to redeem it.

If you want to share it with a friend give them your card and ID and hope they don't do anything untoward with it and the restaurant doesn't catch on. If you want to share your drafts with a friend, do the same thing. Don't expect the restaurant (or CZE) to support you in this...

/awkward analogy

UDareUTake
05-13-2014, 01:01 PM
@noragar
From your example, I dun really agree with the potential impact that it would cause. When CZE plan for this weekly free drafts for life, they would have already taken that "loss of potential revenue" into account, so regardless whether I use them, or I give a friend to use them. The overall "loss in potential revenue" for CZE is fixed at a maximum of about 2088 (Sold in Kickstarter) free weekly drafts for life.

I strongly believe a very very low % of people will just let their tickets expire without using them, as even just entering and rare drafting gets you the cards+chest+gold. Which is why, tradable or non-tradable, I dont think the difference would be that big in terms of used tickets vs unused tickets

Which brings me to the point of if CZE were to really make the draft tickets for life tradable, would it really cause so much trouble and impact to CZE?

@hatts
If you look at my first post, I am not saying that the draft tickets must be allowed to be tradable.

I know that it is non-tradable (whether it is stated right from the start would be debatable but not the main point here)

I know at this moment in time, its either A) I give my friend my login details to play the draft of B) I buy 3 boosters and the plat for him.

Which is why I am just asking whether is there any possibility of making it tradable and if so, what are the concerns that ppl might have if these tickets were to become tradable.

noragar
05-13-2014, 01:27 PM
I strongly believe a very very low % of people will just let their tickets expire without using them,


In which case, changing the tickets to be transferable would only benefit a very very low % of people, and doing so seems unnecessary.

Further, the few people who would benefit would be the ones trying to take advantage of the system for their own gain, so why should the rest of the players pay extra to subsidize those people?

UDareUTake
05-13-2014, 01:34 PM
Having a very low % of ppl letting their tickets expire does not mean that there will be a low % of ppl gifting away their draft tickets, be it to friends/prizes etc...

Yes in some way you can say its unnecessary, for me its just a small improvement in the ease of using the tickets

And in what way are other players paying extra to subsidize this? What is there to be subsidized?

Hatts
05-13-2014, 01:39 PM
@hatts
If you look at my first post, I am not saying that the draft tickets must be allowed to be tradable.

I know that it is non-tradable (whether it is stated right from the start would be debatable but not the main point here)

I know at this moment in time, its either A) I give my friend my login details to play the draft of B) I buy 3 boosters and the plat for him.

Which is why I am just asking whether is there any possibility of making it tradable and if so, what are the concerns that ppl might have if these tickets were to become tradable.

Right, I got that. My point was that if you want a friend to draft because it would otherwise go to waste that week or to give them a taste, sit down with them and do a draft on your account or give them your details. If you don't trust your friend that much it's likely you are actually trying to profit from it which ultimately takes money from CZE and was against the spirit of the agreement you had with them when purchasing it.

Turtlewing
05-13-2014, 01:45 PM
Which brings me here to ask about this in the first place.

Because in a way, I felt there seem to be minimal impact of making draft tickets tradable, but I would like to see what kind of concerns are there regarding this matter that I couldnt see etc

The main problem is that the primary goal of the draft tickets is to get people who wouldn't have drafted to try a draft in the hopes that a portion of them will decide they like it and start spending platinum on drafts.

Making the draft tickets tradable increases the probability that they will end up in the hands of heavy drafters where they fail to do anything except reduce the amount of income CZE gets from those players.

As an example:
Consider a Grand King who pledged for the PvE perks, and wasn't very interested in PvP or Draft. That player gets 1 non transferable draft ticket per week. If they don't use it they're "leaving value on the table" so they have an incentive to enter a draft and at least get their cards. Then once they've entered they have an incentive to at least play the first round because if they manage to luck out and win they get 2 more packs (and from there every win gives them incentive to keep going because they get more rewards).

On the other hand, if they can trade those tickets, they can toss them up on the AH and probably get somewhere close to 700 plat (which will have more utility than the PvP cards as it can be used to buy gear and PvE cards not just PvP cards) with no time investment, so why bother entering the draft?

noragar
05-13-2014, 01:49 PM
You can say that buying a Coke with free refills entitles me to 52 ounces of Coke (technically even more, but to keep the comparison, let's say 52) just like you can say that having a year of weekly free drafts entitles you to 52 free drafts.

I can only drink 40 ounces of Coke in a sitting, so I decide to share the other 12 with my family and friends. You can only use 40 free drafts in a year, so you decide to share the other 12 with your family and friends.

The restaurant priced the Coke at whatever price they did figuring that people wouldn't be able to drink more than 40 ounces. If people start consuming 52 instead, they now have to make an adjustment by either increasing the price of the Coke, increasing the price of something else, or taking the difference out of their profit.

I'm sure you can fill in the rest.

UDareUTake
05-13-2014, 02:04 PM
@turtlewing

Good point

@noragar

I dun think thats the way CZE intended it to be though since they priced the tiers with weekly drafts for life, I dun think they have that intention, since they have given 2088 free weekly drafts for life, thats about $700k worth of plats and packs.

If their main concern would in this, they could have simply given 5 years weekly drafts instead of for life.

And based on your analogy, if everyone were to used all 2088 free weekly drafts, CZE would have to start increasing their price to offset this?

Rendakor
05-13-2014, 02:37 PM
When CZE offered the forever drafts and yearly drafts, they assumed that not all of those codes would be used. Thus, they realize that they're not giving away 100% of the value (2088 x $7) but some percentage lower than that, and set the cost of the tiers appropriately. Now, if 100% of the drafts were being used by the backers, that's great for CZE because that means that those 2088 people are playing the game at least once a week (and probably spending money on packs, tourneys and AH fees). However, if the people who aren't using their drafts are just selling them or giving them away that creates a problem.

First, it's problematic because while CZE charged assuming <100% ticket usage, the percentage ends up higher than they expected without a similar uptick in revenue from the aforementioned packs, tourneys and AH fees. Second and more importantly, people without KS drafts are drafting without paying the 3 packs + 100p (by buying tickets from other players) and thus CZE is losing money from it's hardcore playerbase.

ZillahEnoch
05-13-2014, 10:44 PM
Everyone arguing about the free weekly drafts,
Given those would not become tradable, because it would defy their goal (which I agree with).

Do you have any grudge against making the non-time-limited draft tickets we got 3 of with every Squire and upper tier tradable ?
I mean, they are basically the same as giving 100 plat and 3 boosters, except more restricted in use. We won't see any more of them than there is now, and, as I said earlier, I feel they would make a great straightforward gift to make friends try drafts.
This would especially make sense for people with a $250+ tier that already have a weekly draft to indulge in and want friends to share this.

Admittedly, this is not a much needed feature or anything, it is just that I don't see it hurting the market in any way and would find that neat :)

Rendakor
05-14-2014, 08:51 AM
Making them tradeable fundamentally changes their value and purpose. They are intended to be a gateway drug into drafting. If people could trade them, they're less inclined to try the format out and potentially want to play more drafts.

Turtlewing
05-14-2014, 09:14 AM
Everyone arguing about the free weekly drafts,
Given those would not become tradable, because it would defy their goal (which I agree with).

Do you have any grudge against making the non-time-limited draft tickets we got 3 of with every Squire and upper tier tradable ?
I mean, they are basically the same as giving 100 plat and 3 boosters, except more restricted in use. We won't see any more of them than there is now, and, as I said earlier, I feel they would make a great straightforward gift to make friends try drafts.
This would especially make sense for people with a $250+ tier that already have a weekly draft to indulge in and want friends to share this.

Admittedly, this is not a much needed feature or anything, it is just that I don't see it hurting the market in any way and would find that neat :)


The problem with making those tradable is exactly the same as the weekly tickets.

The goal of giving a free draft ticket is to get more people drafting. Making them tradable would tend to result in fewer people drafting more often (because people who draft a lot will buy them from people who don't).

If anything the one time tickets (because they were given out to a wider variety of tiers) are less desirable to allow trading as right now they're eating a hole in the pockets of a more diverse group of players than if they could be traded and the people who were stacking free weekly draft tiers buy them all up.

Vorpal
05-14-2014, 09:25 AM
Everyone arguing about the free weekly drafts,
Given those would not become tradable, because it would defy their goal (which I agree with).

Do you have any grudge against making the non-time-limited draft tickets we got 3 of with every Squire and upper tier tradable ?

Yes. It's not worth the time it takes for them to make these tradeable. Making them tradeable would only encourage people to hang onto them, which I gather is explicitly not CZE's intent. Mine are already gone, for example, as I have already started drafting (some people hoped to hang onto set 2 and have them turn into set 2 draft tickets but CZE has said they will be set 1 draft tickets).

I think CZE wants these used up and gone asap and not floating around being traded.

If you want to gift drafts to your friends, throw some some packs and a plat.

The tickets are there to encourage people to try drafting. Maybe they'll like it. Letting people trade away their draft tickets and not try them means you are losing potential draft players. If CZE gives everyone 3 non tradeable draft tickets, everyone is going to try draft 3 times.

If CZE gives everyone 3 tradeable draft tickets, one dude is going to wind up drafting 30 times and 9 guys won't draft at all. This is clearly not a good way to go about growing a healthy draft community.

I agree that the free weekly drafts absolutely shouldn't be tradeable.