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View Full Version : Crafting Ideas: Regarding PvP, Alt Art, and Consumables.



halfwing
05-14-2014, 10:34 PM
Yep. Gonna be using the words 'Crafting' and 'PvP' in the same post. Everyone take cover while you still can. Also wow this turned out a LOT longer then I was expecting. TL;DR version at the end, the giant essay is just to explain my thought process for many of these ideas.

First of all, I recommend everyone who hasn't seen it, go watch the recent interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9TsHWtT2-w) of Cory by infam0usne0. In it, he confirmed the following: PvE cards are craftable, PvP cards are craftable, but maybe not all rares/legendaries, equipment will be craftable, mercenaries are craftable, and consumables will be craftable. He did not elaborate on what, exactly, a consumable was, but he did mention as an example (note, this is completely off the cuff, and not confirmed at all, just an example he used) that one of the examples of a craftable item would be an alt art Burn, that you could only make after a specific recipe drops in a certain raid, and those would be extremely rare, to keep those alt arts very limited.

This topic is to try and expand on the ideas presented in that video. Everything in this post is pure conjecture, and based on my own assumptions about the game.

Alt Art
One of the core ideas of this post, which applies to all of these ideas, is that new cards shouldn't be created out of nothing (I realize the irony that crafting is done through the Void Society), and require a separate card as a 'base'. Doubly so for PvP cards. For alt art cards, I feel that the recipes should all require a copy of the original card in order to craft them, in addition to PvE materials. This is important because I doubt many cards will have any material drops that are exclusive to that card, so in order to keep people from crafting (for example) the mats from a honeycap and a howling brave together into a Pack Raptor. An example recipe might be something like:

Burn (AA): 1x Burn(Card) + 2x[legendary mat name](Material) + 3x [common mat name](Material), Recipe Required.

This is to keep new cards from appearing 'out of nowhere', as these cards will always be alterations of an existing card of that type. This also keeps the alt art cards rare, and prevents them from ever become MORE common then the card they are an alternate of.

Like the Kickstarter cards, all crafted Alt Art cards should be changed to Epic (purple) rarity, to set easily tell them apart from other versions, as well as make them easily searchable in your collection and on the auction house.

PvP Cards
This one I am hesitant about. PvP cards DO need to be in PvE, but I feel that all PvP cards should come from PvP players, encouraged to trade to get gold. However, if PvP cards should be craftable, I feel they should follow a similar format to Alt Art cards, and all require an existing card to use as a base. Unlike Alt Art, PvP recipes won't have to be obtained as a drop, and instead are unlocked for all crafters (or, if crafting is a levelable skill, for all crafters of a certain level) at set milestones. These recipes would be released in rarities, with each 'tier' being released every set. So when Set 2 is released, all set 1 commons become craftable, then when Set 3 drops, all Set 1 uncommons and all Set 2 commons become craftable, etc etc. With 4 sets a year, this means that the last of the cards in any set are released on the 1 year anniversary of the set, which is a neat thing to celebrate!

Each set would then have 4 recipes for it, one for each rarity, like so:
Set One Common: 1x PvP Common(Card), 3x[common mat name](Material), 2x[different common mat name](Material), no recipe required.

What this would do is let you spend however many mats the recipe called for, to convert any PvP common (regardless of the set it comes from) into a random common card from the set you chose. This keeps the number of cards 'floating around' consistent, as the only source of PvP cards will still be boosters, while PvE players can use crafting to turn cards into more useful cards. This gives the PvE players reasonable access to a lot of the staples they would need for their decks, gets them a consistent source of staples that they need for their decks, while not also letting PvE players kill the market and devalue the current PvP cards on rotation, because they wont be able to craft the chase rares/legendaries until a full year after release.

This also gives a use to trash commons, and subpar rares, in ANY set, as they can be used as crafting fodder. However, this also acts as a material sink (which is why I think it should generally use fairly cheap materials), because its still a role of the dice what you get, but the card you craft, regardless of how bad it is, can still be used to send back through to get a different card, at the cost of more mats. Much like how Wheels of Fate is a roll of the dice that gives PvP players PvE content, the PvP Crafting Recipes would be a roll of the dice that gives PvE players PvE content.

Note that alt art cards can not be used as crafting mats for these recipes, because they are Epic rarity.

Consumables (Part 1: Void Shard)
We know NOTHING about consumable so far (except for probably colin, but he doesn't count). So this is entirely conjecture, even more so then the other section. I mentioned these ideas in another thread, but the fit here, so I'm gonna repost them in this thread.

Before talking about consumables, I'd like to show the following idea for a card, because it will be pretty important for how I feel Consumables should work.

Void Shard
Resource - Standard
1/1, Gain a charge. (no threshold)

As is, it is a card that is objectively worse then any other basic resource, but if needed can be changed to 0/1, or have it not give a charge, but I don't think that's necessary. The point of the Void Shard is to act as a card that can be included in any deck in unlimited quantity and that nobody would actually WANT in their deck, but if drawn, isn't a TOTAL waste, and still give some moderate use in a pinch. For all intents, it is basically a blank card.

The recipe for void shards would be a recipe all players have from the start, and just requires any three crafting materials to create, so they are extremely easy to get a hold of, and should be abundant. This is because the actual use for the Void Shard, is to act as the 'base card' needed for all PvE cards. Normally this wont be much of a big deal, because its effectively just adding 3 materials to every crafting recipe in the game. And normally, that is the case, however this becomes important when it comes to consumables.

Consumables (Part 2: Consumable card type)
When consumables were announced, I was extremely confused as to how that would even WORK in this game, and assumed it would just be the generic cash shop items like EXTRA EXP FOR 1 HOUR and such. I wasn't very excited, and so I tried to think up consumables that might actually be interesting for the game. Things that might give you temporary charge powers for the dungeon, things that might let you heal in the middle of a fight, etc, but none of them felt like they fit the game, until I realized we have all already SEEN a consumable.

Spectral Lotus! Spectral Lotus is a PERFECT example, because its a card that's only usable once, and once used permanently changes, but is designed so it doesn't invalidate any deck its in after doing so. So I worked out an idea for how to do something similar with consumables in Hex.

The majority of Consumables use Void Shards as a crafting material, and those that don't are upgraded versions of consumables, that use other consumables as ingredients (Like a Greater Health Potion, which would use a Health Potion as a base card).

Consumable would be its own card type, but function much like artifacts do currently. They would have no threshold (though certain ones might, why not?). They wouldn't be artifacts, so as to prevent any weird interactions with dwarf decks, or mercenaries like Bebo. All consumables would also have an ability that ends with "Return this to your hand. It irreversibly transforms into Void Shard. This change persists even after the game ends.", similar to whats done by Spectral Lotus. Other then that, consumable would act much like undercosted versions of Sappers Charge, Goblin Cooking Pot, or Bottled Vitae, with the consume cost instead of a sacrifice cost. They would cost resources to play, and would have a cost to activate their printed ability. Could be neat to see a lot of experimentation with those abilities, with things like Charge Abilities on them.

That is the core reason for the Void Shard to exist, so that once a consumable is used, it doesn't invalidate your deck, but you would still want to get rid of it as soon as you get back to the deck editor. It also makes it so that consumables get turned back into the ingredient needed for all other consumables, effectively acting like a 'bottle' to refill potions into, which I think really fits the flavor of crafting and consumables.


TL;DR version:

Alt Arts should require the card they are an alt art of as a material
PvP cards should only be craftable after the next set is released, and use PvP cards of the same rarity as a material.
Consumables should work like Spectral Lotus, but get turned into a basic resource with no threshold, that is used as a crafting material for other consumables to 'refill them'.

KingxOfxThexVoid
05-15-2014, 03:57 AM
Definitly seems like an interesting idea

Turtlewing
05-15-2014, 05:01 AM
I think consumables should be more varied than you've decribed here.

One Idea that came to mind a while ago in a consumables dicusion was that they could make a cycle of "potions" something like:

"Potion of life", Artifact, 0 cost, [exaust]: gain 5 life, Potion of life permanently transforms into an "Empty Bottle"
"Potion of Wisdom", Artifact, 0 cost, [exaust]: draw a card, Potion of life permanently transforms into an "Empty Bottle"
"Potion of Strength", Artifact, 0 cost, [exaust]: target troop gets permeant +1/+1, Potion of life permanently transforms into an "Empty Bottle"
etc.

"Empty Bottle", Artifact, 0 cost, [exhaust] sacrifice this artifact: deal 1 damage to target champion, Empty Bottle permanently becomes a "Pile of Broken Glass"

"Pile of Broken Glass", Artifact, 0 cost, [exhaust] sacrifice this artifact: deal 1 damage to target attacking troop

Then there could be a crafting chain that can take a pile of broken glass and a couple materials and turn it into an empty bottle, and a cycle of recipes that take an empty bottle and some materials and turns it into one of the potions.

So you can load up on potions, and if you use them you still have the bottles which you can smash over someone's head in a pinch and throw broken glass around, but if you break the bottle it get's more expensive to refill it into a potion after the battle.

I imagine the design space can be further explored.

halfwing
05-15-2014, 09:37 AM
Oh no, i dont think those should be the only ones, just used some simple ones as an example. They should have dozens upon dozens of different consumables, imo, because its a good resource sink and lets things go through. Also, i really dont think that consumables should be artifacts, because of the interactions it would give dwarves, and weirdness that could arise with Bebo's parts.

I originally used bottles as well, but changed it to Void Shard because its easier to fluff that as being able to turn into non-potion things. After all, why cant you have scrolls, which create actions to put in your hand, or ones that create troops. Heck even ones with ongoing effects, and then a large consume effect, like so

Scroll of the Pyromancsr
2 cost, Consumable
1, exhaust: put a Blaze Elemental into your hand.
2, discard a card, exhaust: put an Inferno into play, and return Scroll of the Pyromancer to your hand. It irreversibly becomes a Void Shard.

Could do similar ones for each shard, with sapphire giving some small fliers, and being able to sac to create Air Superiority, etc.

Also, an important distinction i have noticed, is that irreversible is intentionally different than Permanent. Permanent effects are removed by cards that revert, while irreversible are not. Not that it would matter much in this case because shards usually aren't targetable anyway.

Turtlewing
05-15-2014, 10:37 AM
I think that condensing everything to a void shard is artificially limiting.

Why can't different consumables turn into different things when used?

Why can't a scroll of X turn into a "roll of Parchment" when you use it?

Personally I think most consumables should be artifacts (they don't necessarily all have to be). Artifacts are the "anybody can use this thing" type which is exactly what consumables are. The definitely shouldn't make up a new type just to shaft dwarves (use constant if artifact isn't acceptable).

as to permanent/irreversible, sure whatever. I wasn't trying to make perfect or even balanced cards just to illustrate the concept behind a cycle of consumables than convert into a shared base form that isn't a void shard.