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S117
05-21-2014, 02:06 AM
So something just occurred to me...when PvE is fully in we will be able to do crafting including (if I remember right) breaking down cards to make equipment pieces.

Logically break-downs should go in increasing value common -> uncommon -> rare -> legendary.

Even if you aren't into PvE making strong/in demand equips would get you some pretty nice gold/plat on the AH.

So...even if you have 4+ of a rare...would you still take it? If you're a good drafter that should be dependent on what the other picks are, naturally, but might it give you some inclination to snatch up that rare that you otherwise may not think twice about?

benczi
05-21-2014, 05:16 AM
yes, go ahead, rare-draft, it's worth it ;)

Xenavire
05-21-2014, 05:30 AM
I find cherry-picking rares is a good idea. In my experience, picking up a good rare over a good bomb or good removal tends to work out, but choosing a bad rare over a good bomb or good removal is always a bad idea. For example: you have inner conflict and inferno, and you are playing diamond/ruby. You always pick the conflict. But if blessing the fallen comes along, and you think there might be a few more inspire troops floating around, pick Blessing over things like burn - even if you don't use it, it can be a valuable card in a constructed deck (unlike inferno.)


Obviously, there are no hard and fast rules, and you should always pick up a junk rare over a junk common/uncommon.

meetthefuture
05-21-2014, 05:43 AM
Well, BotF and Inferno are about the same playlevel in Constructed, and Burn is an insanely good limited card.. I don't think that passing burn would be a good decision, unless you already have 5-6 inspire troops in your pool

Xenavire
05-21-2014, 06:25 AM
Well, BotF and Inferno are about the same playlevel in Constructed, and Burn is an insanely good limited card.. I don't think that passing burn would be a good decision, unless you already have 5-6 inspire troops in your pool

It depends on when the pick happens really. I took a blessing in my last draft, on pack 2, for the reasons above, and then got passed a legionnaire of gawaine - never got passed an inspire troop, and still took the draft 6/0. Keeping options open doesn't hurt if you know what you are doing.

And I think inspire humans is probably going to be a big thing in set 2. I have no insider info, but I keep seeing hints dropping, so it doesn't hurt to have a few spare.

Rendakor
05-21-2014, 06:52 AM
I wholeheartedly support your decision to raredraft.

meetthefuture
05-21-2014, 06:58 AM
Honestly, I can't see the way rare drafting and building a deck would compete. Of course you won't take the rares that worth nothing, like above mentioned Inferno, but if you are passed something worthy(which isnt that often) - picking it will cut you only one good to mediocre card that was in this booster.
I mean, I'm taking all the worthy rares that come to me and still manage to win drafts, what do I do wrong?

Xenavire
05-21-2014, 07:32 AM
Honestly, I can't see the way rare drafting and building a deck would compete. Of course you won't take the rares that worth nothing, like above mentioned Inferno, but if you are passed something worthy(which isnt that often) - picking it will cut you only one good to mediocre card that was in this booster.
I mean, I'm taking all the worthy rares that come to me and still manage to win drafts, what do I do wrong?

I definitely agree with this, but there are cases where I would skip a good rare (these cases are rarer than the cards themselves though!) For example, if I am in blood/diamond, in desperate need of removal, or a good troop, and I had a pack with murder, forgotten lord, and Crash of beasts, I would probably be grabbing the forgotten lord. Sometimes grabbing an in-shard bomb is just so much better for your chances than what getting another rare would be worth.

But thats a borderline case, if I saw a pack with Crash and a bunch of random mediocre troops, I would snatch the crash and be quite happy.

Vorpal
05-21-2014, 08:54 AM
If rares are indeed consumed in crafting, there may not really be any rares that are 'worth nothing'.

I doubt rares that are used only for crafting are going to sell for the same as good rares people want to play with, so I'm not sure how much of an impact this will have in drafting.

It will probably mostly set a minimum price 'floor' per card rarity on the AH, keyed to whatever the most valuable craftable item per tier is.

nicosharp
05-21-2014, 01:06 PM
After the first 3 days of quality rare drafting, it seems the rare drafting army invaded Hex. I haven't been able to nab more than 4 rares in a draft now. Curses!

Xenavire
05-21-2014, 01:17 PM
After the first 3 days of quality rare drafting, it seems the rare drafting army invaded Hex. I haven't been able to nab more than 4 rares in a draft now. Curses!

Yeah, I actually passed every rare in the last draft and then proceeded to get whomped by a bunch of rares I never saw. Just my luck, and a waste of a draft. :p

Simo46
05-21-2014, 02:04 PM
I've gotten 8 or more rares in my last 2 or 3 drafts. All junk but hey, I'm not complaining. Unsurprisingly, that first round win is still elusive...

Banquetto
05-21-2014, 02:22 PM
If rares are indeed consumed in crafting, there may not really be any rares that are 'worth nothing'.

I doubt rares that are used only for crafting are going to sell for the same as good rares people want to play with, so I'm not sure how much of an impact this will have in drafting.

It will probably mostly set a minimum price 'floor' per card rarity on the AH, keyed to whatever the most valuable craftable item per tier is.

Agree 100%. Without crafting, there will be certain cards that are so undesirable that random supply + virtually zero demand* = virtually worthless. But put crafting into the mix, and there will be a price floor.

e.g. if you were to pluck Hearthstone's system out of the air, you can break 4 rare cards down to craft 1 rare of your choice. A system like that, combined with an AH, would put a price floor where the worst rares would be worth 1/4 as much as the best ones. Any that sold below that would snapped up to craft and sell the results.

So I think rare drafting decisions will simply be based on AH prices, whether a crafting system exists or not. If you think the AH value of rares is sufficient to risk a lower chance of winning packs in the tournament, go for it.


* zero demand except for completionist collectors, and inexperienced players who misjudge the card and think it looks useful

Dynimix
05-21-2014, 08:42 PM
That is all I do! Rare draft every tourney even though I don't win.

a-V-e-n
05-22-2014, 07:42 AM
I have observed that people rare draft even the junkiest of junk rares at 1st or 2nd pick. While the norm should be the junk rares wheeling and that's how it's always been, I haven't had any single rare passed to me in quite a while. That's a huge change and I got no idea what caused it. Are people that desperate to collect full set of all cards?

For comparison, on Magic Online drafts rares worth a solid 1-2 bucks often get passed late in drafts just because people care about picking something good for their deck to win with. I expected Hex players to act the same as the environment and prize structure is basically the same, but nope, Hex'ers raredraft like mad.

Rendakor
05-22-2014, 08:00 AM
A lot of Hex players are just drafting because they have free tokens; they don't go in expecting to win so they're more concerned with collecting cards than building a good deck.

YourOpponent
05-22-2014, 08:05 AM
I have observed that people rare draft even the junkiest of junk rares at 1st or 2nd pick. While the norm should be the junk rares wheeling and that's how it's always been, I haven't had any single rare passed to me in quite a while. That's a huge change and I got no idea what caused it. Are people that desperate to collect full set of all cards?


About two weeks ago on my 2nd pack the person to my right passed me a legendary and that legendary then went all the way around again to me. And that was a Kraken....get that thing in play in limited and it's pretty much game over!

jonsnow2000
05-22-2014, 09:50 AM
I'm still wondering how equipment will factor into this once PvE is released. Some PvP garbage rares might turn into desirable /valuable PvE cards. Personally, I started out purely raredrafting, but now that I have a playset of C/UC and 4 of most of the crappy rares, I started passing them to grab good C/UC that can help my deck. Recently I even got a Rare (Shrewd Manipulation) as last / forced pick ;)

DocX
05-22-2014, 11:31 AM
In 8-man drafts, I always rare draft. I'm a Grand King, so I am now and will continue in the future taking advantage of my free drafts to build my collection. My marginal draft cost is 0, so even if I lose in round one (which tends to happen less than 20% of the time so far), I am still up. For me, booster winnings are a bonus, not a requirement for success.

Sometimes I'll skip a Rare if I see a bomb that fits in, but that's a rarity. I always keep my collection in mind (and what holes there are in it) when I draft. I actively look for strategies that will fit with cards I still need a playset of (which right now is 4 more uncommons, 125 more rares and 44 more legendaries). Once trading and AH are implemented, it'll be easier for me to trade my way to completion, but I'm pretty sure I'll always look at a Rare and its collectible value when deciding my first pick of a pack in random 8 man drafts.

This would change in the context of a larger tournament, but for general 8 man drafts, I don't see it changing that much going forward. But that's just me. I'm the guy who keeps track of my cards in a Google Spreadsheet while I'm drafting and/or opening packs, so I'm pretty sure I'm atypical in a number of respects.

(my spreadsheet along with indications of how many of which cards I still need)...
1903

Dynimix
05-22-2014, 11:40 AM
A lot of Hex players are just drafting because they have free tokens; they don't go in expecting to win so they're more concerned with collecting cards than building a good deck.

I think this might be the case and I am absolutely guilty. I am just trying to build my collection right now and it is fun to play in a tournament, even if I lose.

Simo46
05-22-2014, 01:45 PM
Not being able to buy or trade yet plays a big part I think

S117
05-22-2014, 04:49 PM
Wow. I started quite the conversation!
I don't rare-draft myself unless the card is worth it (monetary-wise or needed to complete a deck) or it's late in the pack I literally have no reason to pick any of the others.

It would be very gratifying for "crap rares" to have a price floor...I always hated that in MTGO...ending up with rares that were worth $.10 and fit only to trade en-masse to trade bots.