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Chark
05-30-2014, 10:50 AM
Today we want to give you a glimpse into the near future with a sneak peek at the next major content update for HEX.

http://hextcg.com/friday-update-the-near-future/

Marsden
05-30-2014, 10:52 AM
Ooooooh. Starter Trials are a great idea.

Kami
05-30-2014, 10:58 AM
We are going to create a new item that you can loot and call them Holiday Gifts or Gen Con Gifts (final names TBD). These items will drop from various activities in the game and won’t be tied to packs, Wheels of Fate, or Chests. Examples where you might see these drops will include (not all are going to be implemented immediately, and they may be subject to change):


Wins from matchmaking (not the challenge button—the blind matchmaking)
Completion of quests in the game
Progression through PvE content



So what happens if you've already completed quests and progressed through PvE content before the events?

Or does this mean there will be event-specific quests/PvE content?

Edit: Also, will there be any point in holding on to packs for event times anymore?

Warrender
05-30-2014, 10:59 AM
The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.

Yubar
05-30-2014, 10:59 AM
Starter Trials and Gen Drop changes are why I love this game so much. Keep it up guys, staying flexible will keep you on top!

I also think a few free draft/sealed tokens where new players don't actually keep cards but can experience draft would be a great way to get players engaged as well

Rapierian
05-30-2014, 11:00 AM
So, what will happen if you've deleted your starter decks from your deck collection? Because I already have :-/

Svenn
05-30-2014, 11:01 AM
Hrm, I'm a little worried about the Starter Trials. Are these random cards you're given as you progress? Only commons? Untradeable like starter decks? These things affect the economy.

I like the idea and I have no problem with giving new players a few more cards with their starters, I just want to make sure it's not going to have any major impact on the values of cards.

incitfulmonk21
05-30-2014, 11:03 AM
Great update for sure can't wait to see what June holds for Hex

Miwa
05-30-2014, 11:05 AM
So we will be able to sell cards, but not give them to friends at first? Seems like that was attacked in the backwards order. Bringing friends in is going to be a lot more useful right now than the card economy...

LLCoolDave
05-30-2014, 11:07 AM
Hrm, I'm a little worried about the Starter Trials. Are these random cards you're given as you progress? Only commons? Untradeable like starter decks? These things affect the economy.

I like the idea and I have no problem with giving new players a few more cards with their starters, I just want to make sure it's not going to have any major impact on the values of cards.

Introducing more commons and some uncommons into the market this way is not going to be meaningful at all, they are very unlikely to have any real value as things stand anyway. I'm not opposed to people being able to unlock a rare or two this way either, as long as they are fixed. Making a subset of cards more accessible will only shift the value slightly for the rest of them, I don't see this having a strong negative impact on the economy at all.

Chark
05-30-2014, 11:15 AM
Also, will there be any point in holding on to packs for event times anymore?

No point. We never intended for the seasonal rewards to make you feel bad about doing something outside that specific time frame.



So, what will happen if you've deleted your starter decks from your deck collection? Because I already have :-/

You'll have to remake the starter deck. As long as you have the cards, you will be able to run the Trials. The saved deck is nothing special. We'll just check for a deck that has all of the cards a starter would.


Hrm, I'm a little worried about the Starter Trials. Are these random cards you're given as you progress? Only commons? Untradeable like starter decks? These things affect the economy.

I like the idea and I have no problem with giving new players a few more cards with their starters, I just want to make sure it's not going to have any major impact on the values of cards.

It's commons and uncommons and they are set. You won't be able to grind random PvP cards by starting new accounts :)



So we will be able to sell cards, but not give them to friends at first? Seems like that was attacked in the backwards order. Bringing friends in is going to be a lot more useful right now than the card economy...

We're working on this as well. We are just not ready to talk about it yet. Both features are important for open beta and we understand that :)

eprieur
05-30-2014, 11:17 AM
I welcome the trials alot. I gave my beta access to a friend but I'm not sure what we can do once in the game. I want to give him some card but apparently I can't yet. Can you win cards somehow without paying right now? I think no. In Hearthstone you could at least get 10 gold for 3 wins of normal play or try to do the quest and hope that arenas pay for themselves. This is what draw you into the game. I hope that pve will play this role or it's going to be very hard to convince people to play.

nicosharp
05-30-2014, 11:24 AM
Great update, and great decision making / design direction. The target dates helps curb some anxiousness for content.
Thank you.

Chiany
05-30-2014, 11:26 AM
Glad to hear about the changes in how Holiday and Promotional items are going to be handled.

Question though, is this going to be implemended before Gencon 2014?

The Starter trials sound good, for new players that is.

The one thing I don't like (or understand might be a better description) is why the larger tournament feature is introduced before we get any PVE at all.
It's starting to feel that PVE will be a part of Hex that will be a "side project" along side the PVP part of Hex.

Kami
05-30-2014, 11:27 AM
You'll have to remake the starter deck. As long as you have the cards, you will be able to run the Trials. The saved deck is nothing special. We'll just check for a deck that has all of the cards a starter would.

Does this mean we would need to recreate the same deck multiple times if we had multiples of the same starter deck? Or are the Trials limited to one of each valid starter deck per account? When we rebuild these decks, will we have to be careful of the cards we put in due to Card IDs?

eprieur
05-30-2014, 11:38 AM
Btw why are the trials limited to a certain set of cards? Let's say I buy 1 booster pack and upgrade my initial starter deck, that deck isn't valid for the trial? Sound stupid and unnecessary. Who cares if someone with more cards succeed at the newbie trials more easily? In fact it's kinda expected that after gaining a new card in those trials you would update your deck for the next trial.

Chark
05-30-2014, 11:41 AM
Does this mean we would need to recreate the same deck multiple times if we had multiples of the same starter deck? Or are the Trials limited to one of each valid starter deck per account? When we rebuild these decks, will we have to be careful of the cards we put in due to Card IDs?

Probably once per account per each starter type (there are 4 right now). If you have two starters of the same type, you are not going to be able to run it twice. The feature is really there for new players, so it's unlikely that you'd find enough value grinding through multiple times with the same starter. I suppose, you can always trade the cards to another account, if you really want the experience multiple times.

Card IDs won't matter. It'll just validate against the starter deck list.

Chark
05-30-2014, 11:44 AM
Btw why are the trials limited to a certain set of cards? Let's say I buy 1 booster pack and upgrade my initial starter deck, that deck isn't valid for the trial? Sound stupid and unnecessary. Who cares if someone with more cards succeed at the newbie trials more easily? In fact it's kinda expected that after gaining a new card in those trials you would update your deck for the next trial.

You get cards after every win. You can add those.

As far as modifying decks from packs (or building a deck from scratch) and playing the AI--that's essentially a PvE feature that will be rolled out later.

yoyogod
05-30-2014, 11:54 AM
Will we be able to use the Dragon's Blood Starter in the trials or is it just for the standard starters that anyone can get?

Unhurtable
05-30-2014, 11:55 AM
Btw why are the trials limited to a certain set of cards? Let's say I buy 1 booster pack and upgrade my initial starter deck, that deck isn't valid for the trial? Sound stupid and unnecessary. Who cares if someone with more cards succeed at the newbie trials more easily? In fact it's kinda expected that after gaining a new card in those trials you would update your deck for the next trial.

That is the idea. You start the trial with your starter deck (its no longer the starter deck if you modify it) and then when you progress through it you can modify your deck to fit the next level.


Trial. After each victory, the player is rewarded with new cards to add to their existing starter deck and help them in their next challenge.

Who cares if you can't beat the newbie trials without additional cards?

vileguy
05-30-2014, 11:56 AM
I keep following the updates, and appreciate them coming weekly, but don't have much desire to play. To me, Hex isn't really out until the PvE is there. Still waiting and hoping~

Davidp00
05-30-2014, 11:58 AM
I like trials idea, maybe buying another starter deck will be worth the 1000 plat now

eprieur
05-30-2014, 12:22 PM
That is the idea. You start the trial with your starter deck (its no longer the starter deck if you modify it) and then when you progress through it you can modify your deck to fit the next level.



Who cares if you can't beat the newbie trials without additional cards?

It's just bad experience and I would argue a somewhat bad design. I'm a newbie, I don't check the forums, etc. My first deck is my starter, I modify it and then go into the trials. I get an error message? Can I easily remove the cards that do not fit in there? Do I have to know which card I manually added that were not correct?

Or put it another way, a programmer spent times coding and testing a feature that basically is worth nothing and could simply have been scrapped. You can play it clean and only use starter cards if you want but no reason to artifically limit stuff like that.

meowstef
05-30-2014, 12:26 PM
Thanks Kami and Chark for that discussion one of the things that has been holding me back on using my spare key to invite a friend is the lack of anything for them to do when they get in

also as some one who has been keeping a bunch of packs unopened for cons Weeeeeeeee :)

Xenavire
05-30-2014, 12:27 PM
So how will conceding a game in the PvP version of the holiday rewards work? A little curious what you guys chose, just in case there is an opportunity to abuse the system.

Vorpal
05-30-2014, 12:55 PM
The starter set stuff is a really good idea and will help fix the problem where non KS backers get a beta code, log in, get stomped by other players in PvP, and then realize there's no way to grow their collection *at all* unless they dump tons of money into the game.

This will give them a way to dip their toe in a bit and play around with the deck building aspects and hopefully get hooked.

I'm also fine with the timed events rewards changes. Like you say, you don't wan to make people feel bad for not 'saving' their packs until gencon.

The argument that 'well now I have to grind and before I didn't' I do not find persuasive, as the favored method of opening packs was drafts, which is a bit grindy anyway.

Marsden
05-30-2014, 12:59 PM
The argument that 'well now I have to grind and before I didn't' I do not find persuasive, as the favored method of opening packs was drafts, which is a bit grindy anyway.

I much prefer having to play the game, rather than just spend money (or save packs, which is what I was doing) to get the event rewards.

Peseto
05-30-2014, 01:15 PM
Absolutely love this new Starter Trials!!! Although the starter tournament sounded pretty fun as well, but it obviously had its flaws.

Zophie
05-30-2014, 01:25 PM
I hope there is a button when you start the trial to auto-create the starter deck to fit the requirements, to make it easy to jump into if you already modified your deck. I can see new players getting tripped up by that if they started messing with their decks before attempting the trials, so having a quick button to generate a valid decklist for the encounter would be helpful.

Chark
05-30-2014, 01:26 PM
So how will conceding a game in the PvP version of the holiday rewards work? A little curious what you guys chose, just in case there is an opportunity to abuse the system.

If we add the holiday reward drops to PvP, it would only drop for the winner. We can't stop people from joining the matchmaking and conceding to strangers, but we can remove incentives for them to do so (their concession does nothing for them).

A lot of systems design is just figuring out what behaviors we're incentivizing with the design. That's a big part of my job.

Chark
05-30-2014, 01:30 PM
Absolutely love this new Starter Trials!!! Although the starter tournament sounded pretty fun as well, but it obviously had its flaws.

The starter tournament is hard to design given that our game has free accounts that anyone can make. I just couldn't make it work so that there's enough incentive for new players to try it, while not enough incentive for existing players to make new accounts and clobbering new players.

We may revisit this idea when a few other pieces fall into place: asynchronous tournaments and a larger player base for example.

Vorsa
05-30-2014, 01:37 PM
Huzzah for starter trials! :cool:

I don't need any more PvP commons or uncommons myself (not unrelatedly - praise be that there's no longer an incentive to have held on to packs!), but I will look forward to these greatly because:

a] This is practically PvE! :D
b] I always like 'puzzle' modes in TCG's, and with all the cards being set these won't be far from them.

Now to finally get round to building some proper PvP decks for matchmaking...

CGOOnline
05-30-2014, 01:41 PM
You'll have to remake the starter deck. As long as you have the cards, you will be able to run the Trials. The saved deck is nothing special. We'll just check for a deck that has all of the cards a starter would.

Will this mean that we will be able to gather the cards from a starter deck we did not have from the Auction House and then start the trials for that deck? Or, will the system know that we did not buy the starter deck (obtain from initial account creation)?

Regarding the common / uncommon card rewards, will these be just cards that can also be obtained from booster packs then? They won't be exclusive to the Start Deck Trials, thus making 4x playsets difficult to obtain?

Chark
05-30-2014, 01:54 PM
Will this mean that we will be able to gather the cards from a starter deck we did not have from the Auction House and then start the trials for that deck? Or, will the system know that we did not buy the starter deck (obtain from initial account creation)?

No you could piece together a starter and do this (as long as you haven't done this starter on the account already)



Regarding the common / uncommon card rewards, will these be just cards that can also be obtained from booster packs then? They won't be exclusive to the Start Deck Trials, thus making 4x playsets difficult to obtain?

PvP cards. Not exclusive to the Starter Trials in any way. Remember, the goal of this is to give access to cards for new players in a reasonable way. Not to jam up the existing players with a grindy method to get must-have cards.

CGOOnline
05-30-2014, 02:00 PM
No you could piece together a starter and do this (as long as you haven't done this starter on the account already)

PvP cards. Not exclusive to the Starter Trials in any way. Remember, the goal of this is to give access to cards for new players in a reasonable way. Not to jam up the existing players with a grindy method to get must-have cards.

Thank you for the quick reply. It's refreshing to have ongoing interaction those involved with the game.

cavench
05-30-2014, 02:14 PM
Loving this update! I have a question regarding:

"The Auction House is just a first step, the next one will be a way for you to give cards to other players."

Are there any plan for additional trading options? (ie: setting up trading binders to see each other's collection-for-trade)

LNQ
05-30-2014, 02:25 PM
Could participating / winning matches in tournaments also have a chance of dropping you seasonal loot? I don't like playing constructed, which I would be forced to if that is the only way to gain loot in PvP.

Yoss
05-30-2014, 02:38 PM
Could participating / winning matches in tournaments also have a chance of dropping you seasonal loot? I don't like playing constructed, which I would be forced to if that is the only way to gain loot in PvP.

There's also the AH; it's all tradeable. Let someone else grind it for you, then buy it from them with the "loot" you've generated from your tournaments.

A healthy economy can have so many things to do that no one can do them all; people must specialize, then head to the Market (in the general sense, not the AH) for the rest. In fact, I'd say it's flat out bad if anyone other than a 100-hour-per-week player is able to be 100% self sufficient.

EntropyBall
05-30-2014, 02:46 PM
This update sounds great. Its cool that you guys are trying something to address some of the concerns of new players entering the game and wanting a little progression before sinking money in.

Really like the Gen Con change too. Removing the incentive to save packs is good. People will be happier if they don't feel like they "have" to save them.

Yoss
05-30-2014, 02:48 PM
Really like the Gen Con change too. Removing the incentive to save packs is good. People will be happier if they don't feel like they "have" to save them.

Not just packs. I was hoarding gold too, for upgrading the event chests.

Chark
05-30-2014, 02:49 PM
Btw why are the trials limited to a certain set of cards? Let's say I buy 1 booster pack and upgrade my initial starter deck, that deck isn't valid for the trial? Sound stupid and unnecessary. Who cares if someone with more cards succeed at the newbie trials more easily? In fact it's kinda expected that after gaining a new card in those trials you would update your deck for the next trial.

You get cards after every win. You can add those.

As far as modifying decks from packs (or building a deck from scratch) and playing the AI--that's essentially a PvE feature that will be rolled out later.

I talked to the engineers--looks like I misunderstood how this will work. You will in fact be able to modify your starter after the first match with any cards you have (from boosters/AH/etc.). For the first match, you'll need the original starter. Then, you can modify it with any cards you have in your collection to play subsequent matches.

(Yes, after the first match you could in theory 'modify' you starter to have 0 starter deck cards and still be able to play in the Starter Trial. We won't stop you, but the AI will be sad that you're cheating. :))

Yoss
05-30-2014, 03:00 PM
the AI will be sad that you're cheating. :)

Will it frown and ragequit? :D

Marsden
05-30-2014, 03:03 PM
the AI will be sad that you're cheating. :))

Is that when it hangs?

Marsden
05-30-2014, 03:03 PM
You will in fact be able to modify your starter after the first match with any cards you have (from boosters/AH/etc.). For the first match, you'll need the original starter.

Actually ... does that include fixing the lack of gems in the original starters and potentially changing the champion?

jimmywolf
05-30-2014, 03:16 PM
very happy about this update, it nice too see your not just trying copy paste one idea an make it work. the insight on the pro an cons of the decisions you guys must make was also a nice touch, thank you for sharing.

Grognag
05-30-2014, 04:27 PM
Loving the starter trial idea - I personally wouldn't mind if the starter trial was locked into that one deck unchanging until it finished. That would get you used to utilizing those specific cards without "cheating" - make it challenging enough that you might need to play the AI more than once, a balancing act between alienating a new player and teaching them some valid skills. Maybe after a loss suggest a combo or a tip related to that specific starter deck? Later on, when the newbies are making their own decks, they'll be like "Well, I remember that combo from the dwarf starter deck ... and if I include this in the blood deck I'm making with that other combo I learned ...". The other idea is to limit the amount of foreign cards into the deck and have a hard card limit for the deck. So say, after the first match, you can have 15 foreign cards in your deck and the deck must be 60 cards (or how many the original starter deck is) or even start it lower, depending on how long the trial will be (5 cards changed out per victory)

I saw in the responses by Chark that giving cards away will be addressed at some point. I think this is important for getting friends in. Chances are, we can't give all our cards away to friends to start their own deck but we can perhaps give away spares if we don't see ourselves playing a particular type of deck. For example, my girlfriend is eager to swarm people with staggering amounts of bunnies. I have quite the collection of Shin'hare cards, she doesn't. I want her blood/diamond cards for my deck, but chances are one of us will take more off the other. Maybe the giving people have to be friends and have to have been friends for X time, so you couldn't just friend someone to quickly give away cards or get cards. I think flexibility in card trades is really important, otherwise you get card games that are "locked in" like Duel of Champions, which really shows the focus of that game is to make as much money as possible off players without a true sense of community.

fitzle
05-30-2014, 04:46 PM
Great article and great updates. I can say I really like all the choices HEX keeps making for it's game.

Covnam
05-30-2014, 07:42 PM
"We are all incredibly excited to start opening up the game economy." Can we get an idea of how much gold the average player is expected to get in a week or so? It's hard to judge how much to spend on the AH when you don't know what the gold is worth. It costs 1200 gold to open a common chest. Is that a lot (earnable in a month in PvE) or a little (earnable in a day in PvE)? Considering the only gold coming into the game right now is a temporary reward from PvP tournaments that require platinum (ie real money) to get, it's hard to judge.

I like the changes to seasonal and Con rewards. I guess now I can open my primals? :)

The starter trials sound like a great idea too.

DanTheMeek
05-30-2014, 08:29 PM
I love the idea, though I admit the implementation is a little... odd. It feels like it would make more sense to unlock the starter trial on starter purchase (or selection for new accounts) and just have the first battle give you a starter (that is, it doesn't matter if you still have the cards for making the starter when you finally attempt the trial, it will provide them for purpose of doing the trial). Having the trials unlock based on whether or not you have the cards to do the trial seems strange and counter intuitive, as is not being able to do a trial you bought a starter for anymore because you sold/traded/disenchanted one or more of the cards that it came with and don't have extras of.

Still the core idea behind it is awesome, and though I don't really see 15 additional commons and uncommons making the starters worth the 10 dollars, especially if you can indeed just make 4 accounts to experience each set of trials, this is the sort of unique digital only add-on for a starter deck I love to see.

jcalton
05-30-2014, 08:44 PM
Are you guys working on a reason to construct a deck?

Blowfeld
05-30-2014, 09:45 PM
I am looking forward to those new features as I have 4 friends who backed the game but do not play it as long as there is no PVE content and no trading.

Gorgol
05-31-2014, 01:52 AM
random question, will starter cards from the starter decks and/or these uncommon/commons be able to be turned into their subsequent components to be used in crafting?

Idus
05-31-2014, 03:41 AM
I'd love some incentive to get people hitting the "play" button in proving grounds. Especially for us in Oceania timezone, getting a casual match in prime playtime can be almost impossible a lot of the time.

Norious
05-31-2014, 06:02 AM
Glad you all have tackled the newcomer problem. I see in other online tcgs it is frustrating to try a game and unable to progress without spending real dollars. Then it comes across as a pay to win game and that deflates me as a player. I thought you were going to utilize gold as the cornerstone of building decks for new players. Award a good sum of gold during the trials, which then can be used to hit the auction house for common/ uncommon shopping (how many commons do we have already for a few weeks of draft?). Guild trading I assume will be a factor as well, but I hope you take measures to avoid theft of guild banks, etc.
I really like the incentivse for random pickup games! Great work!

Kroan
05-31-2014, 06:36 AM
I'd love some incentive to get people hitting the "play" button in proving grounds. Especially for us in Oceania timezone, getting a casual match in prime playtime can be almost impossible a lot of the time.

Well, that's where the following part should help

We are going to create a new item that you can loot and call them Holiday Gifts or Gen Con Gifts (final names TBD). These items will drop from various activities in the game and won’t be tied to packs, Wheels of Fate, or Chests. Examples where you might see these drops will include (not all are going to be implemented immediately, and they may be subject to change):
-Wins from matchmaking (not the challenge button—the blind matchmaking)

Maybe they'll give out items during non-events as well from the same activities.

Khendral
05-31-2014, 11:53 AM
No mercenaries on the AH?

Idus
05-31-2014, 01:28 PM
Well, that's where the following part should help

Yes I know, that's why I posted. Sorry, I guess it sounded like a request.

I'm surprised there are a number of people who are against the way the Con rewards change is going to work. I guess they just wanted to buy their exclusives instead of earning them playing? Playing seems more fun to me, and now I can freely use all my packs drafting, instead of worrying about hoarding them all to go into the lottery.

Fateanomaly
05-31-2014, 06:53 PM
It really is because of time. Con exclusive will only run for a limited time and some people might not be available during the period or the drop rate is too low and require more time than they have to get.

Yoss
05-31-2014, 07:32 PM
No mercenaries on the AH?

Mercs are tradeable, so I assume you'll be able to list them for sale sooner or later.

Xenavire
06-01-2014, 04:19 AM
If we add the holiday reward drops to PvP, it would only drop for the winner. We can't stop people from joining the matchmaking and conceding to strangers, but we can remove incentives for them to do so (their concession does nothing for them).

A lot of systems design is just figuring out what behaviors we're incentivizing with the design. That's a big part of my job.

My only concern was that players could just queue, auto-concede and repeat, in an attempt to flood the market with extra copies. Is this a concern for you at all? Or have you got some kind of method in place to stop rampant conceding? (I think stopping a person queuing after 10 conceded games in an hour would be one way.)

zadies
06-01-2014, 08:01 PM
Only will really work with someone running multiple accounts and that is something they could easily track

Kevashi
06-02-2014, 07:28 AM
Starter Trials is Awesome. But here is a silly question. What about those silly people like myself that deleted our starter decks off the deck list. Now, Before you beret me I have created close to 30 some odd decks, and was tired of decks that I wasn't playing taking up the list of selected able decks when you go to challenge someone . IE: The deck listing doesn't scroll, it only lists about the top 20 decks in your library.

Rycajo
06-02-2014, 08:00 AM
Starter Trials is Awesome. But here is a silly question. What about those silly people like myself that deleted our starter decks off the deck list. Now, Before you beret me I have created close to 30 some odd decks, and was tired of decks that I wasn't playing taking up the list of selected able decks when you go to challenge someone . IE: The deck listing doesn't scroll, it only lists about the top 20 decks in your library.

Check back through this thread for replies by Chark. He clarifies how the system will work. Short answer: you can still do the Starter Trials without the "original" saved deck in your deck list. You may have to reconstruct that decklist, but as long as you have all of the cards, you'll be okay.

zadies
06-02-2014, 08:39 AM
I have to wonder if the starter trials are going to run ai 2.0 or are going to be scripted.

Yoss
06-03-2014, 09:15 AM
Servers are down to patch, where are the new patch notes? :(

Marsden
06-03-2014, 09:34 AM
Servers are down to patch, where are the new patch notes? :(

On the front page, where they always are.

https://hextcg.com/patch-notes-v0-9-1-006/

Yoss
06-03-2014, 04:44 PM
They usually put a post in the forums with patch notes, but that's for the info.