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Hibbert
06-03-2014, 12:09 PM
Since it's a patch day, I thought I'd leave some feedback about the patcher. I know it's still in beta, but the patcher does two things that are pet peeves of mine.

1. The percentage complete doesn't really correspond to percentage of the patch downloaded. Instead, it just tells you the percentage of the files you've downloaded out of total files to download. This results in a very uneven rate for overall completion, going fast if there are lots of small files or slow if there are a few big files mixed in.

2. I really hate how it triggers a UAC popup on every single startup. Windows Vista was released seven years ago, I think it's time to adapt to that paradigm. Steam keeps most of my games updated without any UAC popups. The Blizzard launcher usually only needs one when it updates itself, not when it updates a game. I really hope by the time Hex goes into open beta, the need for constant UAC warnings is gone.

Anyone else have any issues with the patcher?

ossuary
06-03-2014, 01:36 PM
Yeah, the fact that it's 2014 and we still can't see the status of the server BEFORE we try to log in (or even get an actual error message when it fails!).

The patcher itself should tell you that the server is down, we shouldn't have to see fifty threads on the forums on patch day asking why people can't connect or if the server is back up yet.

Xenavire
06-03-2014, 02:50 PM
Yeah, the fact that it's 2014 and we still can't see the status of the server BEFORE we try to log in (or even get an actual error message when it fails!).

The patcher itself should tell you that the server is down, we shouldn't have to see fifty threads on the forums on patch day asking why people can't connect or if the server is back up yet.

Cory just mentioned that this is on the list (in some way, shape, or form.) Hope it is in the patcher, but todays news is that it is on the way. Sometime. :p

GPrime
06-03-2014, 04:52 PM
2. I really hate how it triggers a UAC popup on every single startup.

I've never had UAC pop up for Hex. Where do you have Hex installed? If you use the default Program Files folder, this may be the problem.

I've learned that it's a good idea to separate your games from the "Program Files" folder (e.g. C:/Games) because Windows treats that folder as sacred since Vista.

Yoss
06-03-2014, 04:56 PM
I've never had UAC pop up for Hex. Where do you have Hex installed? If you use the default Program Files folder, this may be the problem.

I've learned that it's a good idea to separate your games from the "Program Files" folder (e.g. C:/Games) because Windows treats that folder as sacred since Vista.

Users shouldn't need to use a work-around like that. Game providers should know how the OS works and plan accordingly. I agree with OP point #2. My friend and I were just griping about it the other day. Why does Hex need admin rights? Only the patcher should need rights (at most), not the Hex.exe (or whatever it's called).

Mahes
06-03-2014, 07:35 PM
The thing that honestly concerns me is how much trouble they seem to be having with a minor patch in relation to tournaments. Will be interesting to see how long tournaments are down on June 18th. Oh, that is of course if they actually patch the AH on June 18th.

sukebe
06-03-2014, 07:57 PM
every mmo in the history of mmo's has had times when things break after patching. This seems especially relevant while in a closed beta. I want my drafts back too but I didnt expect them to work perfectly today (which is why I didnt enter any like I usually do). I will be more upset if this continues into open beta or release but right now I will not stress over things as expected as problems with a closed beta update.

jonsnow2000
06-04-2014, 06:00 AM
Well, I certainly wonder why their internal QA hasn't caught this... a bug this severe, happening after they already had to postpone the patch a full week - seriously?

Xenavire
06-04-2014, 06:22 AM
Well, I certainly wonder why their internal QA hasn't caught this... a bug this severe, happening after they already had to postpone the patch a full week - seriously?

It probably happened because they removed parts of the patch. Two features/fixes didn't make it live that were meant to be in last week. So they removed it and it broke things.

And if I am right, let this be a lesson to everyone who says they should just remove features and push out the patches when something causes delays.

malloc31
06-04-2014, 06:46 AM
It probably happened because they removed parts of the patch. Two features/fixes didn't make it live that were meant to be in last week. So they removed it and it broke things.

And if I am right, let this be a lesson to everyone who says they should just remove features and push out the patches when something causes delays.

They should write the fixes as separate patches so that when one is done it can be released, instead of having to wait 4 weeks for 10 of them.

BKCshah
06-04-2014, 06:51 AM
Um, you have more confidence than I do in that case. I forget what was moved, but one of the items was removing friends from your list - which should in no way touch the gameplay features. However, the other may have had an impact. In many ways, I feel that some elements are 'one step forward, two steps back' which is a real shame due to the sour taste it leaves in the consumer's mouth.

ossuary
06-04-2014, 07:05 AM
I hate to say it, because I have a lot of respect for CZE as a whole, but the fact of the matter is that they are bad at patches. Way more than should be justified from professional engineers, at any stage of development. Things make it to live that are immediately apparent and break the game in very bad ways - it's hard to justify that kind of bug not being caught by QA.

You should never have a situation where adding a feature breaks 3 other features, and you weren't aware of it before the patch went live. Or you make a change to a bugged result in the Wheels of Fate, and suddenly 5 other results are bugged. Or you add 4 new features to the game, but 2 of them don't work right. This kind of stuff should not happen. Whatever testing they're doing in advance, they need to get better at it, fast. As far as I can see, it's the biggest flaw they have right now.

Scammanator
06-04-2014, 07:31 AM
I hate to say it, because I have a lot of respect for CZE as a whole, but the fact of the matter is that they are bad at patches. Way more than should be justified from professional engineers, at any stage of development. Things make it to live that are immediately apparent and break the game in very bad ways - it's hard to justify that kind of bug not being caught by QA.

The patching process is a complex one, with different departments pushing against each other with different goals. QA wants to hold everything back until it's fixed, production wants to keep things on schedule and is okay with a few bugs if it means getting a new feature in the hands of the players, and the engineers are largely individual creatures with some wanting to prefect their work before they let anyone use it, and others wanting to move on and remain productive.
The imbalance of power usually means that as long as new features are a priority for the project, then bugs in the live software are going to happen frequently, even if QA finds them all. Found bugs won't necessarily get fixed. And fixes for bugs won't necessarily make it into the patch.

Please note, I'm speaking from my experience at software companies in general. I have no specific knowledge of how CZE handles these things.

ossuary
06-04-2014, 07:33 AM
I'm familiar with all that. I worked for an MMO design company for several years. This level of breakage should never make it into the hands of the public (or even a closed group of testers).

Xenavire
06-04-2014, 08:11 AM
I'm familiar with all that. I worked for an MMO design company for several years. This level of breakage should never make it into the hands of the public (or even a closed group of testers).

To be fair about this, two cards getting hit with bugs (of 300+), and the wheels being hit (when they were needing a fix in the first place) could be easily missed in the rush to put the patch out.

And they will learn from this mistake, just like they have from every other patch.

Vorpal
06-04-2014, 09:17 AM
I hate to say it, because I have a lot of respect for CZE as a whole, but the fact of the matter is that they are bad at patches.

On the other hand, at least they haven't pulled a boot.ini on us.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2007/12/13/eve-trinity-ccps-take-on-the-boot-ini-debacle/

Xenavire
06-04-2014, 09:25 AM
On the other hand, at least they haven't pulled a boot.ini on us.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2007/12/13/eve-trinity-ccps-take-on-the-boot-ini-debacle/

I never heard about that, but christ, bricking OS's? Thats some high-tier bungling.

MatWith1T
06-04-2014, 09:56 AM
I'm hoping this is just a beta issue... as the playerbase is opened up, they can implement Public Test Servers so all these things get hammered out before the patch goes wide.