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View Full Version : The release of set 2 Will help differentiate HEX from that other game



oncewasblind
06-11-2014, 01:43 PM
I've seen a lot of people express concerns over set 2 being released in August, but I think we're forgetting what's at stake. More important than how a second set impacts game economy or player perception, is how it will allow HEX to express its unique digital nature in a way that MtG can't.

This strengthens CZE's case, which is really what's important, right?

I find it unusual that so many people are "alarmed" to see more content being announced. Isn't that sort of, backwards? Of all the things to be alarmed by, why more content? How bout complaining if we ever see cut content, or unannounced delays, or staff layoffs? All things that aren't currently happening. Cory himself said they expect to see the AH released with the patch on June 18th. Yet everyday there's a new post asking in a panic about its status.

Stop that people. Just stop trying to find excuses to scream that the sky is falling. At least wait until there are clouds in the sky before losing your shit - because as of now, the forecast is pretty damn bright.

mach
06-11-2014, 01:48 PM
This strengthens CZE's case, which is really what's important, right?


IANAL, but as I understand things it doesn't. If they were infringing before, making changes now doesn't change that fact. It may change how much additional damages they have to pay, but it won't turn a loss into a win.

cavench
06-11-2014, 01:55 PM
I'm excited for set 2. Set 1 draft still feel fresh to me since I started after open beta starts (6 weeks). But I can imagine set 1 getting stale by end of August.

However, I also a bit downhappy feeling that MMO is getting left behind. Sure, draft is fun, but it is nothing new in the TCG market. It was MMO that attracted me into backing.

I'm satisfied with how PvP is coming along, so more is indeed great news. But yet, if PvE is blood, then I am vampire king with an empty chalice.

nicosharp
06-11-2014, 01:56 PM
The only thing that will differentiate it is actually not following the same release patterns of MTG...
It is in taking it off the stilts labelling it an MMO, and building a foundation in its place that other people can actually experience.

Right now we got:
MTG rule set copied to the T.
MTG release schedule
Worst than MTG "Planeswalker" AI
Worst than MTG ability to trade

Some of this stuff listed above will be here soon, but if they want to differentiate their product, at this point its not going to be in the printed text of their 'new' cards.

Werlix
06-11-2014, 01:57 PM
However, I also a bit downhappy feeling that MMO is getting left behind. Sure, draft is fun, but it is nothing new in the TCG market. It was MMO that attracted me into backing.

Luckily the PvP team is separate from the PvE team, so releasing set 2 does not delay PvE :)

regomar
06-11-2014, 02:00 PM
I find it unusual that so many people are "alarmed" to see more content being announced. Isn't that sort of, backwards? Of all the things to be alarmed by, why more content?

Nobody is alarmed at 'more content'. People are alarmed that this new content is being pushed AHEAD of the content many people backed the game for: PvE. The game was advertised and pushed heavily as the 'World's First MMOTCG'. Now we have an announcement of set 2 before we even have the faintest idea when PvE will hit if it ever even does. It's disheartening to many backers and it feels like PvE backers are being left behind in favor of the voracious appetite of PvP players.

cavench
06-11-2014, 02:02 PM
Luckily the PvP team is separate from the PvE team, so releasing set 2 does not delay PvE :)

That is true. I guess I'm downhappy because there has been so little news about PvE. MMO is more than just dungeons and raids, I would like to know more! What connects the world/underworld, interaction among players in MMO, etc.

The other day I found out that you can spin the globe in Game client's campaign page. I was ecstatic!

At this point I would settle for tomato juice.

regomar
06-11-2014, 02:03 PM
Luckily the PvP team is separate from the PvE team, so releasing set 2 does not delay PvE :)

Source? Ive seen a lot of people saying this, but I find it very hard to believe that the people programming these cards into the game will not delay PvE. Sure the design teams may be separate (or maybe not) but the cards still need to be programmed in, balanced, and made to work with PvE content before PvE goes live. All of that interferes with PvE even if the design team IS completely separate.

Svenn
06-11-2014, 02:12 PM
Source? Ive seen a lot of people saying this, but I find it very hard to believe that the people programming these cards into the game will not delay PvE. Sure the design teams may be separate (or maybe not) but the cards still need to be programmed in, balanced, and made to work with PvE content before PvE goes live. All of that interferes with PvE even if the design team IS completely separate.
I don't know the exact setup but the design team is likely doing the card scripting... so the PvP set design team is scripting in the PvP cards and the PvE designers are doing the PvP card scripting. I'm not sure what you mean by "made to work with PvE content" though. A card that has the correct scripting should work anywhere.

regomar
06-11-2014, 02:17 PM
I don't know the exact setup but the design team is likely doing the card scripting... so the PvP set design team is scripting in the PvP cards and the PvE designers are doing the PvP card scripting. I'm not sure what you mean by "made to work with PvE content" though. A card that has the correct scripting should work anywhere.

Complex card actions and reactions need to be tested with complicated elements like PvE. The new cards will need to be tested with the PvE content. Cards don't just get dropped into a game like this with no testing for new cards. Just because the rules engine is in place doesn't mean unforeseen interaction problems could crop up. Before PvE can be released it will need to be tested with EVERY card released at that time.

cavench
06-11-2014, 02:30 PM
Source? Ive seen a lot of people saying this, but I find it very hard to believe that the people programming these cards into the game will not delay PvE. Sure the design teams may be separate (or maybe not) but the cards still need to be programmed in, balanced, and made to work with PvE content before PvE goes live. All of that interferes with PvE even if the design team IS completely separate.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=36387&page=14&p=380763#post380763

Jarric
06-11-2014, 03:51 PM
The PVE and "MMO" side of this game is the best way to separate it from the other game as that is what is supposed to be unique about it. but it won't matter the suit is filed. I personally am not spending anther dime on this game until the suit is settled though as I don't want Hasbro/Wiz to get the money I wanted to go to Crypto. That and I want pve content released BEFORE another set is released.

Werlix
06-11-2014, 03:53 PM
That and I want pve content released BEFORE another set is released.

You mean, you want PvP sets delayed until after PvE is released? Why?

Ebynfel
06-11-2014, 05:51 PM
The only thing that will differentiate it is actually not following the same release patterns of MTG...
It is in taking it off the stilts labelling it an MMO, and building a foundation in its place that other people can actually experience.

Right now we got:
MTG rule set copied to the T.
MTG release schedule
Worst than MTG "Planeswalker" AI
Worst than MTG ability to trade

Some of this stuff listed above will be here soon, but if they want to differentiate their product, at this point its not going to be in the printed text of their 'new' cards.


Just going to point at some thing here Nico.

Rules the same as Magic? No, but pretty close. So the opinion is fair enough.

MTG Release schedule? Original Release schedule in Kickstarter was 3 set blocks. those blocks came in a year's span with no core set. This was argued against by backers and changed.

Worse than Duels AI? Sure, because AI comes with, you guessed it, PVE. They're tied together to such an extent it would be very hard in implement either without the other wholly operational.

Worse than Magic ability to trade. Where's the Magic Auction House, direct mail and direct trading we are looking at on the immediate horizon? I mean one of the 3 pieces of this is slated with a June 18th release date in Hex, which will be far, FAR before a set 2 launch, even if it's delayed by half a month...

Now, I get where you're coming from. I want double backs, I WANT PVE, I want it all like most everyone else, but to argue new content is destructive to a TCG is borderline crazy, especially with an approximately 2 month head's up. Do I think set 2 will "Save Hex from the Hasbro Boogeyman" ? No, it's not meant to. It's done, so it's being implemented. PVE is played close to the vest, and for all we know is coming in August, but according to Cory's blog itself, PVE is being played so close to the vest because to do otherwise would give spoilers and it needs to see a near simultaneous launch. I can live with that for now. Set 2, imo, doesn't hurt anything at this point, just progresses us i na meaningful fashion and brings in a little freshness.


But just to state, I want my guild functions and PVE too, but that doesn't mean a second PVP set is all "Doom and Gloom" or that it saves us all. It's just content being released because at this point, it is what is ready to ship.

hex_colin
06-11-2014, 06:00 PM
Source? Ive seen a lot of people saying this, but I find it very hard to believe that the people programming these cards into the game will not delay PvE. Sure the design teams may be separate (or maybe not) but the cards still need to be programmed in, balanced, and made to work with PvE content before PvE goes live. All of that interferes with PvE even if the design team IS completely separate.

Also, they've made significant strides in automating the templating. Designer designs a card with an existing mechanic and creates it in the card editor = playable card. So, the burden in creating sets is significantly decreasing over time, mostly because they'll just have to code the new mechanics in each set.

Xenavire
06-11-2014, 06:00 PM
I am still pretty broken up about the long wait for guilds. Anyone who knows me, knows that that is my major gripe above all else. Hell, I have made several attempts to grill Cory about it on streams, in the games chat, etc.

I think guilds need to arrive pretty soon. Before PvE at least (purely because we get experience via PvE and if there are any kinds of guild levels, we should get the full amount of exp!)

Actually, we know far too little on guilds. We need a guilds feature! Do a series - PvE, Double backs, Guilds!

DanTheMeek
06-11-2014, 07:16 PM
However, I also a bit downhappy feeling that MMO is getting left behind. Sure, draft is fun, but it is nothing new in the TCG market. It was MMO that attracted me into backing.


While I"m not entirely sure what downhappy means, I believe I feel the same way. I don't know that I'd say MMO is being left behind, but my excitement since the kickstarter and to this day still remains around the MMO experience, so while I'm not upset about set 2 coming out so soon, it doesn't really get me excited either, its more like "oh, okay... so .... when's pve?". It was the MMO that also got me to back, so while I've enjoyed the PvP more then I anticipated, I'd be lying if I didn't admit to my excitement starting to wear thin. I feel like if we had PvE, even a small smattering of it, I'd be much more excited by set 2, cause I'd have places to use those set 2 cards (aka, pve dungeons/raids) besides just in draft or proving grounds.

Arbiter
06-11-2014, 07:48 PM
PVE, equipment, double backs, mercenaries would all help differentiate the game. Copying the release pattern and releasing expansions doesn't do that at all. If they would make a marked difference, the R&D notes, etc would be admissible anyway. So there is nothing to gain on the legal front for this (except more money).

regomar
06-11-2014, 08:21 PM
while I'm not upset about set 2 coming out so soon, it doesn't really get me excited either, its more like "oh, okay... so .... when's pve?". It was the MMO that also got me to back, so while I've enjoyed the PvP more then I anticipated, I'd be lying if I didn't admit to my excitement starting to wear thin.

This is pretty much EXACTLY how I feel. I think some PvP players are grossly underestimating how big a draw PvE/MMO concepts were to Hex's original backers. If I wanted to play PvP I'd just play Magic. I backed Hex for the promise of a MMOTCG. Yeah, the PvP is fun, but get to the promised PvE already..

Ebynfel
06-11-2014, 09:54 PM
While I"m not entirely sure what downhappy means,

I think English isn't a first language here, and is looking for unhappy

Svenn
06-12-2014, 06:31 AM
This is pretty much EXACTLY how I feel. I think some PvP players are grossly underestimating how big a draw PvE/MMO concepts were to Hex's original backers. If I wanted to play PvP I'd just play Magic. I backed Hex for the promise of a MMOTCG. Yeah, the PvP is fun, but get to the promised PvE already..

And I think the PvE players are grossly underestimating the difference in work required to get the PvE up and running compared to the PvP. It's not like they said "Hey, let's ignore PvE." They've been working on it, they said they have a whole team dedicated to it. However, not only does the PvE require the PvP framework to run but it takes a TON of time to put together all of the content. It's just a time consuming process. Creating PvP sets is just creating a set of cards that work well together. PvE is lore/stories, lots of additional art assets (things like the panoramas), special encounter scripting, the champion/leveling system, AND a whole set of cards.

cavench
06-12-2014, 10:39 AM
I think English isn't a first language here, and is looking for unhappy

It's true English isn't my first language. But in this case I'm just making up a new word cuz "upset" is too strong of a term. I thought of using "upsad" but "downhappy" is more appropriate to describe that "I'm happy but there is something that isn't quite right".