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View Full Version : Reversion VS Abomination + call of the graves



Sholynyk
06-16-2014, 07:39 AM
I would just like to say that if reversion is played on an abomination it should revert those cards back to their original state (the two other creatures) rather than just killing it.

As it was, this was how I lost round two of a draft, I had only a couple health left, and an abomination. he had one creature on the field too weak to take it down. He played reversion on my abomination (which killed it and sent it to the grave yard) then punched me in the face. I tried to follow this up with calling the graves ( not sure if that is the 100% accurate name) which followed by my abomination going back onto the field. . and then promptly dying. this was followed by him punching me in the face again.

I would like at least some warning on a reverted creature that will die immediately upon respawn when using a card like that.

Eierdotter
06-16-2014, 07:43 AM
Bun Jitsu sacrifices 2 troops to create a 0/0 with additional attack and defence
reverting it reduces it to its base value 0/0, playing a 0/0 troop kills it.

expecting to get the two sacrificed troops after reverting the abomination is like
reverting a battle hopper and gaining a Runts of the litter... not happening

Xenavire
06-16-2014, 07:46 AM
All working correctly, and all obvious if you know the rules behind each interaction. If you are still confused, ask away.

FireOnHigh
06-16-2014, 08:26 AM
You have to remember that there are many things that are permanent in this game. If it goes into the graveyard as a 0/0, replaying it doesn't change that, it's still a 0/0.

darkwonders
06-16-2014, 08:33 AM
Since Abomination doesn't have any ability text itself, it won't be immune to effects of Reversion like Briar Legion is. Abomination is buffed through an outside effect, the hero ability, so it's vulnerable to reversion.

Had Abomination said "This creature gains x+3/x+3 of the creatures sacrificed" it would be immune to reversion the same way Briar Legion is.

Turtlewing
06-16-2014, 03:07 PM
I would like at least some warning on a reverted creature that will die immediately upon respawn when using a card like that.

Reversion returs the card to it's base state. Eventually there will be a way to see the base state of any card on the field (the button is there but doesn't do anything yet). Basicly the ability that created the abomination didn't transform the component troops. It voided them and created a new troop that is a 0/0 then applied a buff. Reversion then strips the buff leaving a 0/0 which immediately dies.

The troop in your graveyard should have had 0/0 as it's atk and def, which was you warning that it will die if it enters play without some sort of buff (as was the fact that it dies from being reverted in the first place).

Zomnivore
06-17-2014, 10:13 AM
Personally I think the base stat of the card should be 3/3.

Spending 2 troops for 1, and now another type of removal straight up kills it? ugh.

Way too much bull to be done to get a card that reversion kills. At least base 3/3 leaves you with something.

MatWith1T
06-17-2014, 10:39 AM
I initially read this thread and my first though was "of course it should revert to 0/0," but now I am not so sure.

The champ ability doesn't create an abomination and then add +ATK/DEF when it enters play - it creates an abomination with defined stats. Much like Ozawa ATK/DEF IS your health, and Briar Legion ATK/DEF IS 2xBriar Legion Plays, the Abomination IS 3+Combined ATK/DEF. That number is fixed to something independent of itself.

Just as reverting Ozawa doesn't affect your life total, or reverting Briar's doesn't change the number of times you've played them, reverting the abomination doesn't affect the combined ATK/DEF of the sacrificed troops... and thats what his stats are based on.

Hex has done a pretty good job of differentiating reversible buffs/debuffs and persistent irreversible ones... I'm having a hard time seeing why this one shouldn't be treated as persistent now.

EDIT - right now the game makes an 0/0 Abomination and then buffs it - because that is WAAAAAAAAY easier to program than making a unique card for each permutation of ATK/DEF and then picking the right one to put into play. And that's why it reverts to 0/0 - I get that. But that's not what the ability says it does. It never says add XYZ or +XYZ, it says its atk/def IS XYZ. It shouldn't really have the green 'this number has been augmented' color in its atk/def... it should just be boring old base state white.

Turtlewing
06-17-2014, 11:31 AM
I initially read this thread and my first though was "of course it should revert to 0/0," but now I am not so sure.

The champ ability doesn't create an abomination and then add +ATK/DEF when it enters play - it creates an abomination with defined stats. Much like Ozawa ATK/DEF IS your health, and Briar Legion ATK/DEF IS 2xBriar Legion Plays, the Abomination IS 3+Combined ATK/DEF. That number is fixed to something independent of itself.

Just as reverting Ozawa doesn't affect your life total, or reverting Briar's doesn't change the number of times you've played them, reverting the abomination doesn't affect the combined ATK/DEF of the sacrificed troops... and thats what his stats are based on.

Hex has done a pretty good job of differentiating reversible buffs/debuffs and persistent irreversible ones... I'm having a hard time seeing why this one shouldn't be treated as persistent now.

EDIT - right now the game makes an 0/0 Abomination and then buffs it - because that is WAAAAAAAAY easier to program than making a unique card for each permutation of ATK/DEF and then picking the right one to put into play. And that's why it reverts to 0/0 - I get that. But that's not what the ability says it does. It never says add XYZ or +XYZ, it says its atk/def IS XYZ. It shouldn't really have the green 'this number has been augmented' color in its atk/def... it should just be boring old base state white.

The difference is that the Champion ability is what sets the value. The Abomination itself does not have the ability that grants the stat change, unlike Ozawa and Briar legion which have the continuous ability printed on their card.

darkwonders
06-17-2014, 11:33 AM
It's not a continuous effect because Abomination has no text. If you could somehow remove Briar's or Ozawa's text, their stats would go to 0/0.

zadies
06-17-2014, 12:06 PM
The issue is that it creates a card with x/x stats. It does not create a card with buff text on the card. Why is the default state of the card not the total that it is created at. When you get an adamantine elite in your hand or a creature from the dude that makes the earth elemental reversion does not kill those cards that are created through champion abilities.