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f5shooter
06-19-2014, 05:58 PM
So I haven't been around as much lately, but I checked the first 5 pages on here and don't see any news about the pending lawsuit?

Aren't we past the time Hex had to respond to the initial complaint?

Has there been any other news about it anywhere?

Gwaer
06-19-2014, 06:00 PM
I haven't really been paying attention, but the date they have to respond by is based on when they were served, which I do not know. Not when the lawsuit was filed.

Lawlschool
06-19-2014, 07:56 PM
http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_12

I'm pretty rusty on Civil Procedure, but they probably waived service, so they have about two months from when the complaint was filed to respond. We'll probably get more news by the end of next month.

Vorpal
06-19-2014, 08:16 PM
Lawsuits can take years.

Thrawn
06-20-2014, 05:44 AM
So I haven't been around as much lately, but I checked the first 5 pages on here and don't see any news about the pending lawsuit?

Aren't we past the time Hex had to respond to the initial complaint?

Has there been any other news about it anywhere?

We probably won't get news and we shouldn't expect news unless it's "Yay, we won, quit worrying about it." or "Hey, we lost, servers coming down tomorrow."

fido_one
06-20-2014, 05:49 AM
Anyone seen this news? I glaze over after a few paragraphs but wondering if the few lawyers out there want to weigh in if this would potentially affect the case:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2014/06/19/saying-do-it-on-a-computer-not-enough-for-a-patent-supreme-court-rules/

Lawlschool
06-20-2014, 06:16 AM
Anyone seen this news? I glaze over after a few paragraphs but wondering if the few lawyers out there want to weigh in if this would potentially affect the case:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2014/06/19/saying-do-it-on-a-computer-not-enough-for-a-patent-supreme-court-rules/

It probably won't have much, if any, effect. Seems to be dealing with a completely different kind of patent than what WotC has for MtG.

negativeZer0
06-20-2014, 06:19 AM
Anyone seen this news? I glaze over after a few paragraphs but wondering if the few lawyers out there want to weigh in if this would potentially affect the case:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2014/06/19/saying-do-it-on-a-computer-not-enough-for-a-patent-supreme-court-rules/

This does not apply to the hex situation at all.
What this case is saying is that: If MTGs patent were only for a physical card game and MTG had never produced a digital game, Hex could not then create MTG on a computer and apply for a patent because it's on a computer and therefore different then mtg's patent. Hex is not trying to my knowledge to patent this game in anyway and so that case has no relevance of any kind. The issue at hand for us is whether the patents MTG has for their game system as a whole represent an idea that should be legally covered by a patent. The arguments against the patents is whether they are too broad, lack uniqueness, attempt to patent material that should be public domain etc. Has nothing to do with digital or non-digital.

fido_one
06-20-2014, 06:21 AM
This does not apply to the hex situation at all.
What this case is saying is that: If MTGs patent were only for a physical card game and MTG had never produced a digital game the case is basically saying Hex could not then create MTG on a computer and apply for a patent. Hex is not trying to my knowledge to patent this game in anyway and so that case has no relevance of any kind. The issue at hand for us is whether the patents MTG has for their game system as a whole represent an idea that should be legally covered by a patent. The arguments against the patents is whether they are too broad, lack uniqueness, attempt to patent material that should be public domain etc. Has nothing to do with digital or non-digital.

Fair play; I did read it, but simply don't have enough brain power to analyze it so thought I'd throw it out on this thread, thanks for helping explain it.

Svenn
06-20-2014, 07:02 AM
It's going to be months/years before you really hear anything else unless there's some sort of settlement or it somehow gets thrown out quickly (which seems unlikely). No one is going to publicly discuss the case while it's ongoing, and these cases can drag on for a long time.

Xenavire
06-20-2014, 11:57 AM
Anyone seen this news? I glaze over after a few paragraphs but wondering if the few lawyers out there want to weigh in if this would potentially affect the case:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2014/06/19/saying-do-it-on-a-computer-not-enough-for-a-patent-supreme-court-rules/

From what I understand, it only applies to the filing of new patents (for now). Not sure if there would be grounds to invalidate old patents - but if there was the power to do that, it could potentially help HexEnt - if the digital version of MTG's patent is invalidated, they lose a lot of their case.

The problem is that is all so unlikely as to be almost impossible.

mach
06-20-2014, 12:01 PM
It's going to be months/years before you really hear anything else unless there's some sort of settlement or it somehow gets thrown out quickly (which seems unlikely). No one is going to publicly discuss the case while it's ongoing, and these cases can drag on for a long time.

We're not talking about public statements here. We're talking about legal filings, the first of which is CZE's formal response (not the PR statement we've already got) to the complaint. That should come soonish. Hopefully they won't wait until the last possible moment to file it, because dragging things out works in Hasbro's favor.

Vorpal
06-20-2014, 12:05 PM
We're not talking about public statements here. We're talking about legal filings, the first of which is CZE's formal response (not the PR statement we've already got) to the complaint. That should come soonish. Hopefully they won't wait until the last possible moment to file it, because dragging things out works in Hasbro's favor.

Does it?

What if hex managed to drag it out 20 years?

mach
06-20-2014, 12:09 PM
Does it?

What if hex managed to drag it out 20 years?

Then CZE has to pay lawyers for 20 years and has a dark cloud hanging over them the entire time.

Vorpal
06-20-2014, 12:22 PM
Lots of companies have lengthy lawsuits directed against them. I'm not sure it afflicts them with a crippling dark cloud. For example, I think Uber and Lyft are embroiled in legal disputes against a variety of backward reactionaries in states like VA. This does not seem to at all have harmed them. Aren't they valued at something like 18 billion dollars?

I think if you can, say, expend $X dollars in lawyer fees either over 3 months or 3 years, the latter is probably preferable. Particularly if you think you are at all likely to lose the case.

So, for example, if you could hire a lawyer now for 3 hours to write a response, or hire a lawyer in six months for 3 hours to write a response, the latter is probably preferable, unless it's a completely slam dunk case in which there is no probability you'll lose and you want to clear your name as soon as possible. These characteristics do not seem to me to be common in legal disputes between corporations.

mach
06-20-2014, 12:29 PM
Lots of companies have lengthy lawsuits directed against them. I'm not sure it afflicts them with a crippling dark cloud. For example, I think Uber and Lyft are embroiled in legal disputes against a variety of backward reactionaries in states like VA. This does not seem to at all have harmed them. Aren't they valued at something like 18 billion dollars?

I think if you can, say, expend $X dollars in lawyer fees either over 3 months or 3 years, the latter is probably preferable. Particularly if you think you are at all likely to lose the case.

So, for example, if you could hire a lawyer now for 3 hours to write a response, or hire a lawyer in six months for 3 hours to write a response, the latter is probably preferable, unless it's a completely slam dunk case in which there is no probability you'll lose and you want to clear your name as soon as possible. These characteristics do not seem to me to be common in legal disputes between corporations.

Lawsuits aren't all the same. If CZE loses here, it very likely means the end of Hex, with a 100% loss for the value of everyone's collections. If those other companies lose their lawsuits, it will definitely hurt, but it won't be the end for their products.

As for legal costs, a longer lawsuit means more total legal costs for CZE.

Vorpal
06-20-2014, 12:35 PM
Lawsuits aren't all the same. If CZE loses here, it very likely means the end of Hex, with a 100% loss for the value of everyone's collections. If those other companies lose their lawsuits, it will definitely hurt, but it won't be the end for their products.

On the other hand, if Hex is going to lose, I'd much rather they lose in 20 years rather than, say, six months. I wouldn't even care if they were going to lose in 20 years. In 20 years I'll have moved on.


As for legal costs, a longer lawsuit means more total legal costs for CZE.

This is not necessarily true, if you are extending the lawsuit by waiting the maximum amount of time each step of the way to hire lawyers to do something. I would absolutely expect Hex to wait until the last possible moment to file their response to hasbro. I assume the cost to do so is the same in either case.

Hatts
06-20-2014, 01:07 PM
Lawsuits aren't all the same. If CZE loses here, it very likely means the end of Hex, with a 100% loss for the value of everyone's collections. If those other companies lose their lawsuits, it will definitely hurt, but it won't be the end for their products.

That's the very worst case scenario for a loss, I wouldn't call it very likely. More likely is damages and possibly some portion of future revenues being owed to WotC.

Vorpal
06-20-2014, 01:14 PM
Hex dragging things out is actually particularly useful since many of the things that distinguish hex from mtg aren't even in game yet, but all the similarities are.

The more of their new features hex can add, the less danger there is of the court mistaking it for an mtg clone.

Lawlschool
06-20-2014, 04:06 PM
Here is a pretty basic, but suitable, overview of the litigation process. (http://www.stoel.com/how-does-a-lawsuit-work-basic-steps-in) This stuff can easily take years, especially if the lawsuit moves in to discovery.

Bells
06-20-2014, 06:13 PM
It's on going. And that's all we are entitle to know.

TheFallenLord
06-22-2014, 08:20 PM
while it may have some similarities to mtg, Hex is VASTLY different. Hex can do so many things being an mmotcg that mtg only wished they could do. MTG doesn't have a monopoly on card games and if any intelligent adult would sit down and go through the rulesets of both games, the interactions of cards etc, they would quickly see they are really nothing alike. Wotc really doesn't have a leg to stand on imho.

Ferezal
06-22-2014, 08:39 PM
im more worried about the pve free to play aspect rather this lawsuit... my gut feeling is that hex won this one