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The_Wine_Gnat
06-21-2014, 10:42 AM
If someone targets my troop with lets say a Burn, which then goes on the chain, and then I play Arcane Shield to protect my troop, will the burn still hit since it's already on the chain?

havocattack
06-21-2014, 10:45 AM
burn wont hit

ManofPeace
06-21-2014, 10:57 AM
This is really more a chain question. Since you played arcane shield in response to the burn, the spellshield comes into effect first. There are several similar situations so it's important to know that the chain resolves backwards.

Ju66ernaut
06-21-2014, 11:07 AM
I remember being new to the game and was tricked by a Volcannon one time....but I don't remember what the conditions were. In essence though, the theory was that his action was a bullet fired from a gun. I removed the gun....but since the bullet had already been fired, I was dead. I just wish I remembered the interaction I attempted.

syphonhail
06-21-2014, 03:01 PM
I remember being new to the game and was tricked by a Volcannon one time....but I don't remember what the conditions were. In essence though, the theory was that his action was a bullet fired from a gun. I removed the gun....but since the bullet had already been fired, I was dead. I just wish I remembered the interaction I attempted.

It could have just been as easy as: Opponent exhausts volcannon, you nature reigns in response. Volcannon is destroyed, you still get hit for three. This is consistent with the rules.

Of note, if your opponent has a bunch of dwarves, you could easily do this:

Opponent exhuast Volcannon to do 3 damage. You let it resolve, it does 3 damage.

- Opponent readies volcannon.
- You Nature Reigns in response. (If opponent does not have at least 3 dwarves open, then s/he cannot fire it again before you destroy it. )
-Nature reign resolves, destroyes volcannon.
-Volcannon resolves, readies itself

AswanJaguar
06-21-2014, 04:14 PM
The rule you need to keep in mind is that targeted actions (spells) and targeted abilities need a valid target both when they are cast/activated AND when they resolve. If you give a troop Spellshield after it's targeted by Burn but before it resolves, it will fizzle because the troop cannot be targeted at resolution.

pheedsta
06-21-2014, 05:08 PM
The rule you need to keep in mind is that targeted actions (spells) and targeted abilities need a valid target both when they are cast/activated AND when they resolve. If you give a troop Spellshield after it's targeted by Burn but before it resolves, it will fizzle because the troop cannot be targeted at resolution.

That's a good point. I can understand the confusion with arcane shield because you could think that once it is on the chain (due to having a valid target) it would resolve. But the target must still be valid when it resolves. Great explanation.

sukebe
06-21-2014, 05:31 PM
The rule you need to keep in mind is that targeted actions (spells) and targeted abilities need a valid target both when they are cast/activated AND when they resolve. If you give a troop Spellshield after it's targeted by Burn but before it resolves, it will fizzle because the troop cannot be targeted at resolution.

Well said :-)

I can verify this is how it works as I did this exact interaction several times in draft last night.

cavench
06-23-2014, 10:28 AM
The rule you need to keep in mind is that targeted actions (spells) and targeted abilities need a valid target both when they are cast/activated AND when they resolve. If you give a troop Spellshield after it's targeted by Burn but before it resolves, it will fizzle because the troop cannot be targeted at resolution.

This is a good time to bring up this idea I heard about decades ago. What if HexEnt introduce a new action cards, "immediate action", that resolves without ever going into chain. The only example I can think of is playing shards since it doesn't go into chain to resolve. I can imagine this may be too complex for players in physical TCG, but since Hex is digital the server will properly resolve each card accordingly.

Ebynfel
06-23-2014, 11:02 AM
This is a good time to bring up this idea I heard about decades ago. What if HexEnt introduce a new action cards, "immediate action", that resolves without ever going into chain. The only example I can think of is playing shards since it doesn't go into chain to resolve. I can imagine this may be too complex for players in physical TCG, but since Hex is digital the server will properly resolve each card accordingly.

M:tG did similar with Split Second spells a while back. They haven't revisited split second.

Lyckan
06-23-2014, 11:32 AM
I ran into a possible interaction that I did not try out since I did not know what would happen:
I used Slaughtergear to exhaust a worker bot to transform it, when I got priority and the action was on the chain I thought about using construction plans to exhaust the worker bot since it stil was ready.
Would that cause Slaughtergears ability to fizzle?

Yoss
06-23-2014, 11:36 AM
The activation cost of Slaughtergear is just 3 and does not include the exhausting; exhausting is part of resolving the ability. As such, you are free to exhaust the artifact for other purposes before it transforms (and exhausts).

At least, that's how it SHOULD work based on the wording. If you find something different, you should report it as a bug.

EDIT:
AJ pointed out that the word "target" on slaughtergear has stipulations (that it must not be exhausted). If you make it exhausted the targeting could become illegal and thus fail. He may be right, but I'd say that's a poorly written ability in that case. If that's the intent, the exhaustion should be part of the cost, not part of the effect.

http://www.hexmine.com/card/Slaughtergear,_Renegade_War_Factory/5461

AswanJaguar
06-23-2014, 11:37 AM
I ran into a possible interaction that I did not try out since I did not know what would happen:
I used Slaughtergear to exhaust a worker bot to transform it, when I got priority and the action was on the chain I thought about using construction plans to exhaust the worker bot since it stil was ready.
Would that cause Slaughtergears ability to fizzle?

I originally wrote that because the targeting requires a ready artifact, it will fizzle upon resolution since the artifact isn't readied. I then saw Yoss's post and got confused. If the exhausting is part of the cost (to the left of the arrow), that's different than if it's part of the target requirement as it is here. So, you can't exhaust it before Slaughtergear resolves.

Yoss
06-23-2014, 11:40 AM
Actually, I'm not sure after what you typed (and edited out). See my edit above.

the_artic_one
06-23-2014, 11:46 AM
Can confirm Slaughtergear fizzles if the target is exhausted before the ability resolves. This means you can stormcall/wind whisperer the target to waste the ability.

Aradon
06-23-2014, 12:03 PM
That is working correctly. The target must still be a legal target upon resolution. If it's not ready, it's not a legal target for Slaughtergear.

cavench
06-23-2014, 01:04 PM
I just thought of a scenario that I haven't encountered yet but curious about.

Will cards like Shadowgrove witch, inquisition, and zombie plaque's effort work on troops with spellshield (i.e. forgotten lord)?

I guess is spellshield doesn't take effort until it is in the playfield.

Ebynfel
06-23-2014, 01:14 PM
I just thought of a scenario that I haven't encountered yet but curious about.

Will cards like Shadowgrove witch, inquisition, and zombie plaque's effort work on troops with spellshield (i.e. forgotten lord)?

I guess is spellshield doesn't take effort until it is in the playfield.

Correct, because they are not in play.

However, if they made a zombie plague or a shadowgrove effect that hit troops in play, those two in particular aren't targeted, they're random. So in a similar in play ability, it may dodge spellshield because of the random clause. Be like a spellshield troop stepping on a land mine vs throwing a bomb at it.

sukebe
06-23-2014, 03:11 PM
Correct, because they are not in play.

However, if they made a zombie plague or a shadowgrove effect that hit troops in play, those two in particular aren't targeted, they're random. So in a similar in play ability, it may dodge spellshield because of the random clause. Be like a spellshield troop stepping on a land mine vs throwing a bomb at it.

You can be both targeted and random. I believe some mtg cards target a random troop. The two you mentioned don't target but that doesn't mean other random effects can't.

Aradon
06-23-2014, 04:26 PM
You can be both targeted and random. I believe some mtg cards target a random troop. The two you mentioned don't target but that doesn't mean other random effects can't.

Yep, it comes down to whether the card says 'target' or not. Many cards in Magic say 'Choose target card' rather than 'Choose a card,' or 'Choose target creature chosen at random.' It's a little ungainly, but because the effected creature needs to be targeted still, it uses the word target. If the word target doesn't appear, it doesn't need to be targeted.

Ebynfel
06-24-2014, 03:56 AM
You can be both targeted and random. I believe some mtg cards target a random troop. The two you mentioned don't target but that doesn't mean other random effects can't.

Correct, which is why I said a similar effect May dodge the effect if it's kept as a completely random element. There are always slight intricacies. I should have phrased that a little more clearly