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ShadHex
07-01-2014, 08:32 AM
I used Replicators Gambit on a Sword Trainer (ST) last night and when I played that ST again I got the following stat results: 2/2 (original ST), 4/2, 6/2, 8/2, 10/2, 12/2, 14/2. Do they replicas all come in at the same time or do they come in as a wave? If they come in all at the same time, wouldn't you get one 2/2 (original) and six 4/2 (buffed +2 by original)? If they came in by wave wouldn't you get the following: 2/2, 4/2, 8/2, 16/2, 32/2, 64/2, 128/2? Perhaps they all buffed each other, as they came in, by +2 for each ST that was in front of the one being played. Just for the sake of testing I then played a Time Ripple on the original ST and played it again! This was the results: 56/2, 56/2 (not a typo), 58/2, 60/2, 62/2, 64/2, 66/2. Is this working as intended or was this bugged?

Sword Trainer Text:[Inspire]*- As another troop with cost equal to or greater than this troop's cost enters play under your control, it gets permanent +XAttack/+0Defense, where X is this troop's*Attack.


Replicator's Gambit Text: Shuffle target troop you control into your deck. It gets permanent "When this troop enters play, create six replicas of it and put them into play." Draw a card.

Xenavire
07-01-2014, 09:49 AM
I could have sworn that all of the replicas should only get +2/0 from the original sword trainer, and no bonus buffs. I think this is a bug.

nicosharp
07-01-2014, 10:15 AM
From another post regarding the interaction:

Interesting.... So does that mean that should all proc at once making them only 4/2's
Or they should not even proc off the first copy making them 2/2's
Or they should all proc off each other making them 14/2s?

Also thanks for clarifying above.


Assuming nothing else is affecting it, you should receive a 2/2 (original) and 6 4/2s.


If Rex is right, all the below does not really matter. I'll try to explain what I think is happening:

The replicas basically all come in on a stack. (You can figure this out when you play a Buccaneer given how the enter play effects trigger in order).

This is the same way War Machinist works actually:
The War Machinist enters play, then 6 replica artifact copies enter play in a wave at the same time.
The 6 replica artifacts are entering play go on the stack first, then the 7 war machinists abilities are active upon entering play follow on the stack.
The ability to do 1 damage for each artifact that enters play resolves first, so the 7 war machinists do 6 damage each to the opponent - 7x6 = 42 damage.

Basically, the troop enters play after the ability triggers
So - Sword trainer 1 - is played and triggers alone
Rep 1, rep 2, rep 3, rep 4, rep 5, rep 6 enter play on the stack with +2/0 trigger on the stack
Rep 6 resolves first, +2/0 from original, +2/0 from all other reps = 14/2
Rep 5 resolves second, +2/0 and +2/0 from 4 other reps = 12/2
Rep 4 resolves third, +2/0, and +2/0 from 3 other reps = 10/2

6 Reps enter play on stack, 6 +2/0 on stack
Rep 1 enters play
5 Reps enter play on stack, 5+ 2/0 on stack
Rep 2 enters play

I think I have this right, but its uber difficult to type/explain.

The second time you played Sword Trainer makes sense too, since the original's cost was increased by 1 - the replica's keep the actual cost. So the first inspire trigger won't go on any sword trainer's since the original is a 5 drop.

Xenavire
07-01-2014, 10:27 AM
By the wording of Gambit, thats a bug. They already confirmed that troops from Eye of creation don't 'see' each other - and both Eye and Gambit state 'put into play'. There is no stack order there, only CiP effects will go on the stack (like buccaneer).

Rex is right, and this is a bug.

nicosharp
07-01-2014, 10:33 AM
By the wording of Gambit, thats a bug. They already confirmed that troops from Eye of creation don't 'see' each other - and both Eye and Gambit state 'put into play'. There is no stack order there, only CiP effects will go on the stack (like buccaneer).

Rex is right, and this is a bug.

Perhaps it has more to do with when the inspire check is actually done. Sounds like if an issue, its an issue with how inspire is triggering when more than 1 card enters play at the same time.

"Put into play", still is "entering play", although with multiples no order is identified, the game still has order checks.

Xenavire
07-01-2014, 11:01 AM
Perhaps it has more to do with when the inspire check is actually done. Sounds like if an issue, its an issue with how inspire is triggering when more than 1 card enters play at the same time.

"Put into play", still is "entering play", although with multiples no order is identified, the game still has order checks.

Both cards are putting them into play all at the same time though - and according to devs, inspire only sees things entering play, not things that have already entered play. If they all enter play at once (which they should according to the text) they should only pick up triggers that are already in play (the original copy with the gambit text.)

They can't trigger off each other unless they come in separately (and they don't come in separately according to the card text.)

Raith
07-01-2014, 11:14 AM
Inspire and war machinist seem to function the same from replicator's gambit currently. But if the Eye argument holds and inspire should not stack for each replica, then it seems like that would also apply to the war machinist ability.

If the replicas all enter at the same time, then there is only the original war machinist in play. So, the replicas would each do 1 damage from the original machinist for a total of 6 and not fire off of each other.

Edit: Nevermind. The copies must be like a scrivener which fires off of itself after it enters play.

ossuary
07-01-2014, 11:30 AM
According to Rex's explanation, the troops are supposed to all hit the board at the same time (and not "see" each other as far as Inspire is concerned), so the replicated Sword Trainers should ONLY get the Inspire boost from the one that was already in play (the non-replica). The expected result is one 2/2 Sword Trainer and six 4/2 Sword Trainer replicas. The bug was that it was treated each replica as though it were coming into play sequentially (so you would get a 2/2, 4/2, 6/2, 8/2, etc...). I am not sure if this has been fixed yet, but the six 4/2s is the result we should be getting.

Note, however, the Inspire works differently than other effects. It is listed "AS" a troop enters play, while most other abilities take when "WHEN" a troop enters play. AS happens before (or during) the troop hitting the board, so that when they land on the board, they already have the new stats. This is why Sniper of Gawaine does its new damage, not its base damage. The reason War Machinist counts all of the replicas and does a total of 42 damage is because it's a WHEN enters play ability. They don't see each other AS they enter play (they couldn't inspire each other), but they DO see that they HAVE entered play once they are on the board, so they all trigger each other.

nicosharp
07-01-2014, 11:33 AM
Yeah, Oss.. Thats why I think its an order check with inspire, that looks at each replica individually.
Not saying it's intentional.

YourOpponent
07-01-2014, 02:54 PM
I have noticed the same kind of behavior from Adamanthian Scrivener. You replica her and put her and play and the copies give you health from putting her in play as 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 +7 = 28. I just figured that was intentional behavior.

Edit: Nevermind I'm wrong. Apparently I just went from 9 to 52 HP from doing that. So it seems like the first one is giving 1 HP then the other 6 are happening at the same time and giving each other HP for 7x6.

Xenavire
07-01-2014, 07:35 PM
I have noticed the same kind of behavior from Adamanthian Scrivener. You replica her and put her and play and the copies give you health from putting her in play as 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 +7 = 28. I just figured that was intentional behavior.

Edit: Nevermind I'm wrong. Apparently I just went from 9 to 52 HP from doing that. So it seems like the first one is giving 1 HP then the other 6 are happening at the same time and giving each other HP for 7x6.

Ah, I always assumed it was giving 49 health, but it would actually give 43 (original scriviner + 42). All of this seems to support the inspire thing being a bug.

ossuary
07-01-2014, 07:57 PM
It's confirmed as a bug. :)

I just don't know if it's already been fixed or not.