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View Full Version : Sleeves should not be a chest reward



magic_gazz
07-17-2014, 07:40 AM
As sleeves are untradeable they should not be a reward for spinning chests.

The current system means that once you have won the sleeves any further "wins" are actually losses.

It is not really a big deal, just annoying to see you have won a spin and then realise you get nothing for it.

zadies
07-17-2014, 07:45 AM
This has acctually been mentioned as something they were looking to correct such that rolling and wining a sleeve that you already have definately has an adverse effect.

Turtlewing
07-17-2014, 09:19 AM
I sort of go both ways on this issue.

I don't see any reason that chest spinning has to have a constant EV regardless of what prizes you've perviously earned (with redundant sleeves being lost, it hits makes the sleeves + payed spin into a "payed spin" result if you'e already got the sleeve).

But I do think it's a bit annoying that the EV of chest spins declines as you spin more chests due to redundant sleeevs being worthless.

It might have been better to not include sleeves in the chest spin rewards table, but taking it out now would also be less than ideal. My suggestion would probably be to have the payed spin upgrade to a free spin if you already have the sleeve it would have awarded you.

Vorpal
07-17-2014, 09:39 AM
I like sleeves as a chest reward, i'd just like something to handle duplicates. Turn it into a free spin instead or something.

Yoss
07-17-2014, 09:57 AM
I don't see any reason that chest spinning has to have a constant EV regardless of what prizes you've perviously earned (with redundant sleeves being lost, it hits makes the sleeves + payed spin into a "payed spin" result if you'e already got the sleeve).
Declining rewards kinda defeats the gold sink a bit, don't you think?

Seems simple enough to just replace it with a FREE spin instead of a paid one. Other options are also out there, just would require more thought.

Turtlewing
07-17-2014, 10:22 AM
Declining rewards kinda defeats the gold sink a bit, don't you think?


It depends. Gold sinks are not intended to be infinitely efficient (you want them removing gold at just slightly less than the rate at which it is created by the gold fountains so that supply of gold increases in step your growing player base).

So while declining EV over iterative plays acts against the efficacy of the gold sink, that's not necessarily in and of itself contrary to the gaol of the sink.

Miwa
07-17-2014, 10:31 AM
Since the spin result should be determined on the server before the animation plays on the client, they could just have rolls that would've awarded an already-owned sleeve and nothing else just return the paid spin result instead.

You get the same thing, and it'd be really hard for you to know what happened. :P

(Seriously, that's what I'd do, as long as the db lookup on the result didn't take too long)

ossuary
07-17-2014, 10:36 AM
Since the spin result should be determined on the server before the animation plays on the client, they could just have rolls that would've awarded an already-owned sleeve and nothing else just return the paid spin result instead.

You get the same thing, and it'd be really hard for you to know what happened. :P

(Seriously, that's what I'd do, as long as the db lookup on the result didn't take too long)

This is already what they said they were going to do, except that it'll give another prize, not just the "pay to spin again" result. They just haven't actually done it yet, because reasons. :p

Mahes
07-17-2014, 10:41 AM
I just wish it would at least give a person a free spin if the roll landed on duplicate sleeves.

Ju66ernaut
07-17-2014, 10:53 AM
I wouldn't mind something minimal, like 500-1,200 gold.

Bells
07-17-2014, 11:35 AM
As far as i'm concerned, every single card art should be turned into sleeves. When we get hundreds of sleeves to pick and choose for our decks (and there is really no good reason to NOT do that) this won't be a problem. Special sleeves will still be special, and it just adds more to the game using assets that are already there.

On that note, if sleeves are to be non-trade things, then duplicates should be automatically converted to Gold. This is to me, the most fair resolution.


But if we had hundreds of sleeves to pick and find, it would not be overly complicated to simply lock some of these sleeves as ''Not for trade'' and letting all others be trading material.


There is really no downside to just expanding the number of available sleeves and it would add a little flair to each deck, that many players would enjoy.

Gwaer
07-17-2014, 11:39 AM
I really hope the sleeve display bugs get fixed soon, and perhaps an option to change your default sleeves. I'd use the alpha sleeves all the time over default, they just look so good.

Zophie
07-17-2014, 12:10 PM
I'm hoping at some point we get an update to the game table UI that includes a view of the back of the opponent's hand. That way it gives you more room to show off your sleeves, as well as provides a better visual representation of the hand than just a little number in the corner.

I imagine they'll need to rework the table layout anyway due to multiplayer games/raids coming down the road. Plus I hope that PVE's game tables will look more thematic than the standard table, though I don't recall if they've said anything about this yet or not.

Yoss
07-17-2014, 12:48 PM
an option to change your default sleeves

Yes and ability to change multiple decks' sleeves at once without changing all of them.

Gorgol
07-17-2014, 05:27 PM
Plus I hope that PVE's game tables will look more thematic than the standard table, though I don't recall if they've said anything about this yet or not.
And then they can let them be unlockables for going through those dungeons or something. That would be neat.

Ebynfel
07-17-2014, 06:05 PM
I think if you re-roll a sleeve, it should be auto upgraded to the next rarer sleeve you dont have *nod*

Slaeer
07-17-2014, 10:19 PM
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=35971&p=374294&viewfull=1#post374294


no trading sleeves, the Wheels of Fate will NOT give you sleeves you already have in the future (on the bug list)

If you already have a sleeve and the game wants to reward you with the same thing, it will sub in something else from the same loot table, if its achievement based sleeves... well you know you already have them so...

Stok3d
07-19-2014, 11:24 AM
I like sleeves as a chest reward, i'd just like something to handle duplicates. Turn it into a free spin instead or something.

/agree

Yubar
07-19-2014, 11:40 AM
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=35971&p=374294&viewfull=1#post374294

How will this work, will the system not let you spin a sleeve reward combo if you already own all the sleeves they'll give (only 3 so far right?)

Slaeer
07-19-2014, 09:53 PM
How will this work, will the system not let you spin a sleeve reward combo if you already own all the sleeves they'll give (only 3 so far right?)

This is just speculation but i think the chance at a sleeve reward will still be there. However, if you win the sleeve, the game will check to see if you have that sleeve already. If you do, it will give you a different sleeve. If you have all the sleeves, it SHOULD give you something else like a merc or an equipment etc, but only the items that you would normally win on chest rolls. That way it doesn't lessen your chances at winning something. At least this is how I perceived what Cory was saying.....

Gwaer
07-19-2014, 10:47 PM
I dislike that solution, because it makes the most rare sleeves only as rare as winning the common sleeve times X-the number of sleeves you already own from the spins.

Ebynfel
07-20-2014, 01:09 AM
I dislike that solution, because it makes the most rare sleeves only as rare as winning the common sleeve times X-the number of sleeves you already own from the spins.

But the sleeves mean nothing except "RNG was kind to me"

What kind of achievement does sleeve rarity apply to here as an untradable aesthetic?

Gwaer
07-20-2014, 02:44 AM
*shrug* Sleeves have been put into the most meaningless, and most difficult to obtain category. If you remove the difficult to obtain, all you're left with is meaningless =P

mach
07-20-2014, 02:56 AM
*shrug* Sleeves have been put into the most meaningless, and most difficult to obtain category. If you remove the difficult to obtain, all you're left with is meaningless =P

They could make them meaningful like they are in paper TCGs. Sleeves would reduce the durability damage your cards take while being played. Rarer sleeves would have a greater reduction.

Bells
07-20-2014, 03:57 AM
They could make them meaningful like they are in paper TCGs. Sleeves would reduce the durability damage your cards take while being played. Rarer sleeves would have a greater reduction.

Not a fun, but that doesn't mean that ''sleeves trigger powers'' is completely terrible. I mean, if you think of a sleeve as a power that covers the entire deck... well... there is a lot of room for abuse and crazyness there...

ossuary
07-20-2014, 04:42 AM
They already have that mechanic. It's called a mercenary.

Xtopher
07-20-2014, 10:00 AM
It would be cool if they could create a random sleeve pattern if you win sleeves on the chest reward. That would make every sleeve won unique.

Edit: Or have maybe 3 different patterns, set off in two random colors. If you had, for example, 64 colors that would give you 3*64*64 = 12288 different sleeves to collect. Why not?

Slaeer
07-20-2014, 04:29 PM
I dislike that solution, because it makes the most rare sleeves only as rare as winning the common sleeve times X-the number of sleeves you already own from the spins.

Valid point. The rare sleeves wouldnt be rare if you got them with every common roll. Perhaps then if you won a common sleeve that you already have, youll instead get a common merc/equip from the WoF loot table. Those are stackable and it keeps the rarity percentages the same. The same would apply for uncommon/rare sleeves.

Yoss
07-20-2014, 10:42 PM
It would be cool if they could create a random sleeve pattern if you win sleeves on the chest reward. That would make every sleeve won unique.

Edit: Or have maybe 3 different patterns, set off in two random colors. If you had, for example, 64 colors that would give you 3*64*64 = 12288 different sleeves to collect. Why not?

Pure genius! Then not even Colin would be able to get them all. :)

Pheelon
07-21-2014, 03:07 AM
ahh well while spinning for Primal Chest (Rare Chests and 1 accidental Legendary) I had both 3 x Red Sleeve and 3 x Gold Sleevs - but ofc i had the Sleeves allready... ahh well :/

the Multi-Color - even if its just a different Bordercolor - Idea might have some merit there ;) - ofc the select sleeves Screen would need some rework - add the Different Colors with a "vertical dropdown menu" from the list of "Basic sleeves"

Kroan
07-21-2014, 04:01 AM
Each sleeve should have a different random-seed associated with it. The more rare the sleeves are, the better the seed, resulting in you drawing god-hands every single time.

Xtopher
07-21-2014, 07:59 AM
Each sleeve should have a different random-seed associated with it. The more rare the sleeves are, the better the seed, resulting in you drawing god-hands every single time.
I like the idea of "Lucky Sleeves" on duplicate rolls. Something for PVE only, obviously.

I dunno. I don't think my idea of random designed sleeves is so bad, though.

Bells
07-21-2014, 08:01 AM
PVE sleeves that give your deck some smaller abilities could actually be fun, but that's pretty much what the Equipment for champions is

Turtlewing
07-21-2014, 09:05 AM
Each sleeve should have a different random-seed associated with it. The more rare the sleeves are, the better the seed, resulting in you drawing god-hands every single time.

This is quite possibly the worst Idea I've ever heard.

Setting aside that the idea of a "good seed" is poorly defined and ambiguous, The point of sleeves are to stand if for "titles" as an account level way to show off your prouder achievements.

Having a mechanical effect to them would mean that people are pushed to use their sleeves for the benefit they provide and not the cosmetic purposes that sleeves are designed to fill.

You don't really want to make someone choose between using their "world first <Raid> clear sleeve" or their "Chest spun +1 RBG sleeve".

Yoss
07-21-2014, 09:58 AM
Agreed that sleeves need to remain purely cosmetic.

Kroan
07-21-2014, 09:59 AM
This is quite possibly the worst Idea I've ever heard.

Setting aside that the idea of a "good seed" is poorly defined and ambiguous, The point of sleeves are to stand if for "titles" as an account level way to show off your prouder achievements.
http://troll.me/images/willy-wonka-gene-wilder/welcome-to-the-internet-you-must-be-new-here-thumb.jpg

;)