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bootlace
07-22-2014, 04:51 PM
Rubbish. Managed to login just now after all the login problems and insane lag and completed the first wing on first try within 10 minutes. Tried a game in 'heroic mode' and was met with this by turn 3 (reminded me of Shadowera):

2116

You get a few free cards for beating the bosses but the overall experience was a big meh, especially since it will be 6 euros per wing to unlock.

So in short, Hex backers shouldn't be worried about Hearthstone PVE one bit. If anything, it'll help Hex out with casual gamers being introduced to the idea of a TCG PVE experience and less marketing will be needed to bring them over here.

hex_colin
07-22-2014, 04:54 PM
Rubbish. Managed to login just now after all the login problems and insane lag and completed the first wing on first try within 10 minutes. Tried a game in 'heroic mode' and was met with this by turn 3 (reminded me of Shadowera):

2116

You get a few free cards for beating the bosses but the overall experience was a big meh, especially since it will be 6 euros per wing to unlock.

So in short, Hex backers shouldn't be worried about Hearthstone PVE one bit. If anything, it'll help Hex out with casual gamers being introduced to the idea of a TCG PVE experience and less marketing will be needed to bring them over here.

Yeah, I had almost exactly the same experience. It'll have zero replay value - you'll get the cards and never play the content again. Also... lag, so much lag... Reminded me of loot lag ;) 2005, those were the days...

Diesbudt
07-22-2014, 05:01 PM
Same. I only have the starter deck as well. I smoked the 4 bosses.

I wanted to attribute this to my awesome playing skills... guess game was easy... :(

cavench
07-22-2014, 05:28 PM
Since Hearthstone PvE is lacking, seems like its main purpose is to shake up the meta with only 30 cards. In that aspect Hex set 2 has it covered. I can't wait, less than 5 weeks I hope.

Hearthstone sets a good standard for polished presentation. But other than that I always say Hex closed beta offers a lot more than the launched Hearthstone.

deathandtexas
07-22-2014, 05:34 PM
Still better than current Hex PVE.

Zophie
07-22-2014, 05:54 PM
They do have the option to farm gold through normal gameplay that you can save up to fund the purchase of each wing. 700 gold per wing really isn't that steep if you've got time to play it casually and complete quests.

As far as replay value, they do have class challenges and heroic modes that open up once you've beaten normal mode, so those are nice.

OP: I recommend using an aggro deck to help keep board control in the first wing, especially the on Maexxna fight. Warlock "Zoo" deck works just fine. They designed these challenges to require you to change your decks up and tailor your strategy to each boss. Remember that Hex will also have challenges that will require you to rethink your decks and how you approach them, this is kind of a light version of that.

All of that being said, I'm also a bit underwhelmed, but I appreciate the polish they put into it. I hope they put out a full on "set 2" in the future though, these 30 new cards are nice but they won't be enough to keep the meta fresh for very long I don't think. I also am sad they still limit you to 9 total custom deck slots, and I wish they'd come out with some new heroes soon as well...

hexnaes
07-22-2014, 06:02 PM
Same. I only have the starter deck as well. I smoked the 4 bosses.

I wanted to attribute this to my awesome playing skills... guess game was easy... :(

4 bosses? Did I miss something, there's only three.


Anyhow, I'm having fun with it. I beat the heroic bosses pretty easily. 1/1 for spider boss, 1/2 for the 2nd and third.

I'm working on beating them with only common and basic cards.

Ju66ernaut
07-22-2014, 06:54 PM
I played though the first wing and enjoyed it. I hadn't logged into HS in 2-3 months and it was fun blindly fighting the bosses with decks I didn't remember.

It really gets me excited to see what CZE has in store for us.

knightofeffect
07-22-2014, 08:23 PM
Yea, I ran through everything till the last heroic boss. Its a bit silly, I had several games in a row where the cpu was playing off the top of his deck finally and I had a solid board and hand lead, only to have him rip a couple cards off his deck that I had never seen him play before. The first time it happened, I was like "huh", the next time "hmmmm", the third time (when he played the 2/5 charge beast for 5 for the win, only charge I had ever seen that deck play) I finally called bullshit and stopped.

Overall, I think the PvE in HS is a mixed bag. Sorely disappointing horseshit one side, and good for the future of Hex PvE on the other. That being said, their AI was at least decent...

meowstef
07-22-2014, 08:56 PM
played though everything they had including the heroic bosses in a few hours the last boss is just frustrating very little wiggle room in getting the cards you need
all in all enjoying playing the hex AI much more i think it is smarter

AswanJaguar
07-22-2014, 09:48 PM
There are 4 more wings as part of Naxxramus, but if they are finished as easily as the first wing, we're looking at 5 hours of content. The content is well produced and entertaining but ultimately forgettable. The only permanent effect from playing through Naxx are the new cards (30 in total). Servers have been very slow all night as people slam through the first wing.

It's nicely polished as is Hearthstone itself is but this is hardly a revolutionary PvE experience. Once players farm the bosses for the cards, few will venture back to replay them.


Still better than current Hex PVE.

Snarky comment removed.

ronwac
07-22-2014, 11:21 PM
The level of difficulty at normal seems about right for Naxx in all honesty. If people are going to grinding Hex dungeons for mercenaries, cards, and equipment, I'm hoping that the difficulty scaling will be good for newer players. I'm sure players who are looking for a challenge can set up ones for themselves too, particularly streamers: Highlander Mode where your deck is restricted to one copy of each card would be interesting.

madar
07-23-2014, 12:10 AM
Dunno, i didn't found it sooooo easy. But i agree the replay chance will be very low if they dont put in some daily quests to kill bosses there.
If the difficulty would set (in HS or in HEX) to even above the hc level, not much ppl would be interested to play.

I expect same difficulty to HEX PVE - the hardcore cardgame players already here, if you want to pull in the casual players you cant set a difficulty where the AI kill the noobs in the 5th turn 3 times in a row, because they just uninstall before the 4th try.

d00dz
07-23-2014, 12:37 AM
I finished the entire HS dungeon wing including heroics in around 3 hours. It wasn't very hard once you know what to expect.

You could easily steamroll through the normal bosses just by looking at their abilities. You'll get an idea what they would do and could build the deck around it. I picked a ramp druid for Anub to stall with taunts and a fast warlock deck against the other 2 bosses. Minor tweaking smashed the heroics using the same druid deck against Anub and the same warlock deck against Faerlina. I just had to switch to hunter to own Maexxna.

Now I have no reason to open Hearthstone again until next week when the next dungeon wing opens.

Hex PVE will have something to look forward to at least with the random and chase drops as well as gold.

mach
07-23-2014, 01:20 AM
It's nicely polished as is Hearthstone itself is but this is hardly a revolutionary PvE experience.

They never claimed it was.

It seems clear to me that the point of this is to test the PvE waters. Since this is mostly uncharted territory, they don't know what people expect or want from PvE. So they release a small amount of content and then look at the feedback. Is it too easy or too hard? Is there too little content or too much content? Does the AI need work or is it in a good place? Are the cost/rewards in a good place? Are people expecting/wanting something else entirely?

Naxxramas is releasing 1 wing at a time over a 1 month period. Hearthstone's ranked play seasons are also 1 month. I don't think this is a coincidence. If people like what they see I think eventually we could see a dungeon wing unlock each and every week. Replayability is a lot less important if there's new content every week. This may also be the long-term plan for new cards. Rather than a new set every few months, we could see a half dozen new cards each week. That's a different way to keep the meta fresh. Is it better or worse than the traditional way of doing things? We'll find out.

I hope the CZE people are following this really closely, because they can learn a lot from it. If you wait until everything's ready and then release 40 dungeons at once and you didn't do things quite right, you'll have to either spend lots of time/money going back and changing everything or stick with an inferior product. It better to release the first few dungeons as soon as you can and then use the feedback to adjust things as necessary.

Cortei
07-23-2014, 03:00 AM
I found it interesting that Blizzard has been very particular with their wording.

Naxxramas is an Adventure, and has a small amount of cards themed to its PvE content. The next big release of cards is an Expansion, and is a more general release that we're all probably used to from other CCGs.

Kind of logical when you want to keep things fresh. I know a couple of Hearthstone players chomping at the bit for new cards, and have been for most of this year. I know CZE has talked about PvE being similar with dungeons and the general PvP set releases, so it will be interesting to see how the similar concepts differ in execution as these two games are going down very different paths.

Unhurtable
07-23-2014, 03:54 AM
Same. I only have the starter deck as well. I smoked the 4 bosses.

I wanted to attribute this to my awesome playing skills... guess game was easy... :(

Yeah normal is super hard. There is no way you beat heroic maexxna with a starter deck though.


Dunno, i didn't found it sooooo easy. But i agree the replay chance will be very low if they dont put in some daily quests to kill bosses there.
If the difficulty would set (in HS or in HEX) to even above the hc level, not much ppl would be interested to play.

I expect same difficulty to HEX PVE - the hardcore cardgame players already here, if you want to pull in the casual players you cant set a difficulty where the AI kill the noobs in the 5th turn 3 times in a row, because they just uninstall before the 4th try.

The only way to create replay value for the player is to either make it inconvenient for the player or to add additional content around a particular piece of content, and as such I think Blizzard really didn't want to make it inconvenient for the player on their first PvE release.

Pretty sure Hex will most certainly have the same formula. Quests and dungeons to a certain degree will start out designed for the casual player and then BAM, Raid boss with a rule that deals 100 damage to all players every turn.

bootlace
07-23-2014, 04:48 AM
If you wait until everything's ready and then release 40 dungeons at once and you didn't do things quite right, you'll have to either spend lots of time/money going back and changing everything or stick with an inferior product. It better to release the first few dungeons as soon as you can and then use the feedback to adjust things as necessary.

This is my feeling as well. CZE are placing all their eggs in one basket that they get everything perfect the first time around - which is a bit unrealistic. I honestly don't understand why they aren't show us tidbits now and then to get the hype building and a healthy stream of feedback (as opposed to the outrage that is bound to occur when they just reveal a major change through an article and tell us 'this is how it will be, we've decided it's for the best'). Competitors stealing their ideas is not an issue I believe as MTG don't seem remotely interested in innovating while HS just don't have the infrastructure to create the level of depth that Hex will bring.

Coming back to this HS PVE patch - sure it's polished and slightly amusing for an hour or two but I rather have hundreds of new cards in such patches than a super polished superficial experience. As someone said this whole Naxx patch is around 5 hours of content. I also don't believe they can or will or even want to release more than 4 such adventures per year. That makes the PVE side of the game a non factor in terms of something to get yourself into. This is why Hex's approach will play dividends down the road when people realize they want a more persistent feel to the whole thing which needs to be accompanied by all the MMO aspecs that Hex is bringing on board.

So yea this PVE experiment for HS I believe is just a add-on that they came up with after the game had come out, as opposed to Hex which is building its whole game in a way that will support it. Lets hope Hex PVE is right around the corner and can capitalize on this tcgpve hype (even if it means just focusing on 1 dungeon, polishing and revealing it in a controlled environment).

Vorpal
07-23-2014, 06:28 AM
It's fun, well polished, not difficult, no replayability.

It seems to be designed as a little one off adventure to unlock a handful of specific new cards.

It was also horribly laggy last night.

Osukaru
07-23-2014, 06:29 AM
It's way to simple of a game. Lacks depth

Thrawn
07-23-2014, 07:06 AM
Speaking of banning people with nothing constructive to contribute, mods here is your next candidate. Criticism is fine if you actually add something to the discussion which deathandtexas does not.

He's not wrong. You can't just ban everyone who says anything critical of the game. This entire thread isn't really contributing much to the forums anyways. I don't think anyone was that worried about HS PvE since it seems likely to always just be a very dumbed down version of what Hex will hopefully offer, just like the PvP already is.

Hatts
07-23-2014, 07:29 AM
He's not wrong. You can't just ban everyone who says anything critical of the game. This entire thread isn't really contributing much to the forums anyways. I don't think anyone was that worried about HS PvE since it seems likely to always just be a very dumbed down version of what Hex will hopefully offer, just like the PvP already is.

I agree, these forum's are getting a bit ridiculous when a mention of the slow pace of development and/or missing features triggers calls for bans.

The comment was bluntly made but 100% accurate. HS started later and has delivered a PvE experience before Hex. This shouldn't be a surprise, Blizzard has tons of experience producing AAA games, whereas this is HexEnt's first video game.

Mahes
07-23-2014, 07:55 AM
Speaking of banning people with nothing constructive to contribute, mods here is your next candidate. Criticism is fine if you actually add something to the discussion which deathandtexas does not.

I will be getting a lot more concerned about this game if they start banning people for posting what they are thinking. I literally thought in my head this person's exact response. I would bet a set of Angels that I was not the only person who did. This was not a troll but rather an observation.

Lonenut
07-23-2014, 08:36 AM
If you guys want a good PvE experience, EQ2's CCG has been providing one for years. It's not an idea that's just never been done before.

That said, I had high hopes at the time of the kickstarter that there'd be some excellent, new ideas to this implementation.

Xtopher
07-23-2014, 08:43 AM
Still better than current Hex PVE.
Touche.

RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!!!111!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!11111 !!!!!!!!!eleventy!!!!!!

Hatts
07-23-2014, 08:55 AM
If you guys want a good PvE experience, EQ2's CCG has been providing one for years. It's not an idea that's just never been done before.


My brother plays this, I've thought about it myself but didn't want to invest in another CCG. IIRC it's similar to WoWTCG in terms of mechanics?

Maybe I can borrow his account...

fido_one
07-23-2014, 09:54 AM
I will be getting a lot more concerned about this game if they start banning people for posting what they are thinking. I literally thought in my head this person's exact response. I would bet a set of Angels that I was not the only person who did. This was not a troll but rather an observation.

Mahes I wouldn't be concerned. Someone got banned the other day (not deathandtaxes) and I think as a result some people think the banhammer is going to start bopping along down the chain of perceived offenders. The person who got banned clearly deserved it, had a long history of being very caustic, and had just finished pointing to a good member or two of the community and calling them things like a 'nut gargler'. So people are just excited that the banhammer was used but I still think we live in a very forgiving community for stating our mind.

On the plus side of all of this, I now am aware of the term 'nut gargler', which I will now have to work into my insults of people IRL.

frychikn
07-23-2014, 10:13 AM
There are 4 more wings as part of Naxxramus, but if they are finished as easily as the first wing, we're looking at 5 hours of content. The content is well produced and entertaining but ultimately forgettable. The only permanent effect from playing through Naxx are the new cards (30 in total). Servers have been very slow all night as people slam through the first wing.

It's nicely polished as is Hearthstone itself is but this is hardly a revolutionary PvE experience. Once players farm the bosses for the cards, few will venture back to replay them.



Speaking of banning people with nothing constructive to contribute, mods here is your next candidate. Criticism is fine if you actually add something to the discussion which deathandtexas does not.

get off of your high horse, guy.

hearthstone PVE is a joke i beat the class and non heroic in about 15 minutes, and the heroic probably took about 20 minutes.

35 minutes of content... thats downright pathetic. but crap pve is still probably better than no pve(not even details) at all.

N3rd4Christ
07-23-2014, 10:22 AM
Mahes I wouldn't be concerned. Someone got banned the other day (not deathandtaxes) and I think as a result some people think the banhammer is going to start bopping along down the chain of perceived offenders. The person who got banned clearly deserved it, had a long history of being very caustic, and had just finished pointing to a good member or two of the community and calling them things like a 'nut gargler'. So people are just excited that the banhammer was used but I still think we live in a very forgiving community for stating our mind.

On the plus side of all of this, I now am aware of the term 'nut gargler', which I will now have to work into my insults of people IRL.

Problem is people figure it's the internet and think they can do whatever they want with no real consequences.

Warrender
07-23-2014, 10:51 AM
CZE, whatever you do, please do not copy Hearthstone's PVE.

AswanJaguar
07-23-2014, 11:24 AM
He's not wrong. You can't just ban everyone who says anything critical of the game. This entire thread isn't really contributing much to the forums anyways. I don't think anyone was that worried about HS PvE since it seems likely to always just be a very dumbed down version of what Hex will hopefully offer, just like the PvP already is.


I agree, these forum's are getting a bit ridiculous when a mention of the slow pace of development and/or missing features triggers calls for bans.

The comment was bluntly made but 100% accurate. HS started later and has delivered a PvE experience before Hex. This shouldn't be a surprise, Blizzard has tons of experience producing AAA games, whereas this is HexEnt's first video game.


I will be getting a lot more concerned about this game if they start banning people for posting what they are thinking. I literally thought in my head this person's exact response. I would bet a set of Angels that I was not the only person who did. This was not a troll but rather an observation.

Again, the point was not that he was critical. It would be a pretty boring forum if all criticism was suppressed. My point was, like bojanglez, death contributes nothing to the forum other than snide comments. The forums are at their best when there is constructive dialogue on both sides of the issues. They're at their worst when people bring nothing but negativity and one-liners filled with sarcasm. That said, deathandtexas hasn't attacked other posters yet.

As for Hearthstone's PvE vs. Hex's PvE, the release of Naxx doesn't concern me and ideally will get more people interested in free PvE content as a whole.

Ebynfel
07-23-2014, 11:35 AM
CZE, whatever you do, please do not copy Hearthstone's PVE.

I'm pretty sure that copying HS is the opposite of the plan. But, not a Dev, just the way I figure it.

Hatts
07-23-2014, 12:07 PM
Again, the point was not that he was critical. It would be a pretty boring forum if all criticism was suppressed. My point was, like bojanglez, death contributes nothing to the forum other than snide comments. The forums are at their best when there is constructive dialogue on both sides of the issues. They're at their worst when people bring nothing but negativity and one-liners filled with sarcasm. That said, deathandtexas hasn't attacked other posters yet.

Let's leave the moderating for the moderators, they're able to determine what warrants a ban without our input.

cavench
07-23-2014, 01:01 PM
The hearthstone solo adventure has been quite shallow. I would be very disappointed if Hex PvE is of same depth. However, the presentation is great, the starter trial should aim for this level of caliber.

Yoss
07-23-2014, 01:38 PM
Speaking of banning people with nothing constructive to contribute, mods here is your next candidate. Criticism is fine if you actually add something to the discussion which deathandtexas does not.

This is a bad trend, bordering on censorship. Let people have their say. It's not like he's spamming his negativity over and over in every thread (not that I've seen anyway).

AswanJaguar
07-23-2014, 01:46 PM
This is a bad trend, bordering on censorship. Let people have their say. It's not like he's spamming his negativity over and over in every thread (not that I've seen anyway).

I've stated my reasoning. Not looking to censor anyone who isn't breaking the Code of Conduct. Let's move on.

Chark
07-23-2014, 04:04 PM
HS started later and has delivered a PvE experience before Hex. This shouldn't be a surprise, Blizzard has tons of experience producing AAA games, whereas this is HexEnt's first video game.

Just want to correct this misconception. Hearthstone started game development 5 years ago.

Xtopher
07-23-2014, 04:54 PM
HS PVE was a joke. If that's going to be Blizz's format for PVE from here on out, they would need to produce that amount of new content daily to keep me interested in PVE. I didn't think PVE was going to be a gold producing engine, but a complete lack of any kind of gold reward was ridiculous. I guess I was expecting some sort of repeatable experience, with variable rewards, not just a one shot event.

Hex is going to have them beat hands down.

Ebynfel
07-23-2014, 05:14 PM
Just want to correct this misconception. Hearthstone started game development 5 years ago.

I WANT to say they were referring to the PVE side which lacks the depth of Hex's vision of PVE, Chark. Being able to throw in a couple of "Instances" that feel like 1 off AI matches compared to what Hex is trying to cultivate. I mean, if Hex PVE was going to keep to that bar, I'd think it would have been released ages ago, even at 80 dungeons. HS isn't crafting an experience, thus far. Hex is.

Hatts
07-23-2014, 05:36 PM
Just want to correct this misconception. Hearthstone started game development 5 years ago.


I WANT to say they were referring to the PVE side which lacks the depth of Hex's vision of PVE, Chark. Being able to throw in a couple of "Instances" that feel like 1 off AI matches compared to what Hex is trying to cultivate. I mean, if Hex PVE was going to keep to that bar, I'd think it would have been released ages ago, even at 80 dungeons. HS isn't crafting an experience, thus far. Hex is.

Yeah sorry I was referring to PvE and going based on when it was announced as I have no insider information. I haven't followed Hearthstone that closely but I am sure I heard the dungeon announcement much more recently than when I heard about Hex in the kickstarter.

Yoss
07-23-2014, 05:40 PM
Yeah sorry I was referring to PvE and going based on when it was announced as I have no insider information. I haven't followed Hearthstone that closely but I am sure I heard the dungeon announcement much more recently than when I heard about Hex in the kickstarter.

Blizzard never does anything fast. I would bet they had PvE planned long ago.

mudkip
07-23-2014, 05:48 PM
I watched TotalBiscuit's video of Naxx and it looks pretty cool. It looks really tough and I doubt I would have the cards to beat it.

As with everything in HS, it makes me more excited for Hex PvE.

d00dz
07-23-2014, 05:57 PM
It was in no way tough. Even heroic was a total pansy if you used the right decks.

As usual, Hearthstone was AAA in visuals and presentation. However, I don't know if it was worth it to put that much effort into content with zero replayability and only adding a handful of cards into the meta. Personally I don't feel like playing the wing after beating it once and doubt I ever will again.

Gorgol
07-23-2014, 08:54 PM
It was in no way tough. Even heroic was a total pansy if you used the right decks.

As usual, Hearthstone was AAA in visuals and presentation. However, I don't know if it was worth it to put that much effort into content with zero replayability and only adding a handful of cards into the meta. Personally I don't feel like playing the wing after beating it once and doubt I ever will again.
Yeah, beat it in 45 minutes tops. Took two tries on Maexxna Heroic but meh. No reason to do them ever again. sad. I feel like there was a lot of wasted potential there.

EntropyBall
07-23-2014, 09:05 PM
I haven't played the Heroic versions yet, and don't think I will trivially beat them if they use their abilities aggressively, but I was really surprised by the lack of content. It only seemed to unlock 2 class challenges for me after i beat the wing, and beating both of them didn't unlock more, but it doesn't seem like it should take very long to produce a "dungeon" that is just 3 decks and a few strong hero powers.

Mejis
07-23-2014, 09:58 PM
I haven't played the Heroic versions yet, and don't think I will trivially beat them if they use their abilities aggressively, but I was really surprised by the lack of content. It only seemed to unlock 2 class challenges for me after i beat the wing, and beating both of them didn't unlock more, but it doesn't seem like it should take very long to produce a "dungeon" that is just 3 decks and a few strong hero powers.

I assume the rest of the challenges will unlock with each wing, i.e. weekly.

trapline
07-24-2014, 05:39 AM
I think the hearthstone PVE is easy for people to overlook, just like the game.

It's the first wing, it will get more interesting, and it's an idea getting tested. In another year when they take that seed of a concept and grow it, it's going to be something. Many "hardcore" tcg players scoff at hearthstone and call it simple, but it has it's own strategies and can be pretty darn compelling at the upper tiers of play. The new cards are already making waves.

Hex pve is still a couple of concept art shots and an in game A.I that couldn't power a Roomba. Now it could be great, but this deep into beta we still have no idea when it will be playable, and Cryptozoic isn't giving us much at all concrete.
whatever the holdup is, some new information or footage of gameplay needs to be shown, maybe thats not what everyone wants to hear, but its the truth.

vickrpg
07-26-2014, 04:20 AM
I beat all the heroic versions... There is no reward. apparently Heroic just means waste your time, until all the wings are unlocked. The class chalenges were kind of fun though.

poizonous
07-26-2014, 04:44 AM
28 bucks for 30 cards = Blizzard DLC summed up. Overpriced and lacking content

maniza
07-28-2014, 06:52 AM
i have saved up gold to buy the whole thing but i have to say that even for free it feels kind of crapy. i hope hex pve is much better than this