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oncewasblind
07-23-2014, 11:23 AM
UPDATE: Added a few new card suggestions below.


No, this is not one of those threads.

This is a constructive way to approach the crisis of resource management using the approved system already in place: cards. As a digital game there is an unprecedented flexibility in approaching resource issues that traditional TCG's never possessed. Listed below I'll provide suggestions on how to address the resource crisis, but before I do so, I'd like to explain why I believe the existence of these issues helps create a fuller, more dynamic game.

TCG's are unique in that you combat more than just your opponent, but the "game" as well. We see this in the ruleset imposed on deck creation; we can only have up to 4 of one card, we have to account for resources, we must have at least 60 (40 for draft) cards in a deck. Each rule imposes a different crisis for the player to overcome in order to achieve optimal play. The limit of 4 cards forces players to find complimentary cards and combos; rather than just stacking a deck with 25 Countermagic's and 10 Burn to the Ground's, a player has to incorporate other cards into their deck, making a more rounded experience.

The minimum card limit imposes a crisis of unreliability, since you have to play with 60 cards, you can't guarantee you'll pull your turn 5 win condition by turn 5 every game. This creates an unpredictable game, filled with different choices and circumstances every time you play. Likewise, having shards as cards creates a resource crisis; sometimes you draw too many, sometimes you draw too few. This reality creates tension both when deciding how to build your deck, when deciding whether to keep your hand or to mulligan, and whenever you draw your card each turn, hoping you either do or don't draw that resource that you desperately do or don't need.

This is important, together these rules create drama, risk and reward, it tells the story of near victories and close losses that make this game fun. Stripping away any of these components lessens the dynamic punch of the game.

So let's not do that. Resource flood/screw is good, it's healthy. But that said, there are creative ways where this can be handled, rebalancing the total risk at hand. Here are my card suggestions (feel free to include your own, it people like them, I'll add them to this list, giving credit where it's due of course):

Shard Painter
1 Cost, Artifact Troop - Robot, 1/1
When Shard Painter comes into play, you may convert the threshold type of a resource card in your hand to any other threshold.

Bottled Lightning
0 Cost, Artifact
When you play Bottled Lightning, your champion loses two health and loses one charge. Gain one threshold of your choice. draw a card.

Wild Shard Golem
3 Cost, Artifact Troop - Construct, 2/2
Crush. Sacrifice this troop: Gain one Wild threshold. If this troop was drawn in your opening hand, you may convert it into a Wild Shard.

(One golem for each shard, but instead of Crush, Diamond - Steadfast, Ruby - Speed, Blood - Rage, Sapphire - Draw a card and discard a card.)

EDIT 1:
After reading through the comments I saw a few of you wanting more solutions to resource flood/screw specifically, rather than color fixing. I came up with these suggestions with that in mind:

Dangerous Wish
1 Cost, 1 Sapphire Threshold, Basic Action, Uncommon
Choose Resource or Non-resource. Look through the top cards of your deck until you find the card type you've chosen, and then put it into your hand. Lose 1 life for each card revealed this way.

Wild Root Sage
2 Cost, 1 Wild Threshold, Troop - Elf Cleric, 0/1. Rare
Whenever a player puts a resource into play, look at the top card of your deck, you may choose to put it on the bottom of your deck.

Dire Measures
2 Cost, 2 Ruby Threshold, Basic Action, Rare
Discard your hand. For each resource card discarded this way, draw a random non-resource card, and for each non-resource card discarded this way, draw a random resource card.

These three new cards provide fixing at a cost, either in the form of lost life or a lost card. Wild Root Sage has little value other than free cantrip, though being in wild he could potentially get some +/+ love to make him a threat (especially from his dancinng pal). He might be a little strong, but I bet he could be tuned to work.
End Edit


I'm not saying these cards are balanced, but they attempt to provide soft fixes to our resource flood/screw crisis, without completely throwing the system out the window. Please let me know your thoughts, if you'd like, I'd be happy to post more suggestions.

Thanks!!

Gwaer
07-23-2014, 12:18 PM
I came in skeptical, but left very pleased.

your preface was fantastic. I like the idea of the shard golems a lot.

tehhuntre
07-23-2014, 12:20 PM
First of all, thanks for making a constructive thread that doesn't attempt to redefine the game.

However, two of your three cards help with threshold, but that doesn't really help with flood/screw.

Xtopher
07-23-2014, 12:22 PM
Great suggestions. Most constructive post on this subject I've seen in the past year.

kickinhead
07-23-2014, 12:22 PM
Just give us a one-shot secondary Champion-Ability (that every Champ has) which reads: "Choose a Basic Shard from your Deck and out it on top of your Deck."

DONE!

AswanJaguar
07-23-2014, 12:54 PM
Since hex_colin is probably busy in meatspace, allow me to unconvincingly fill in for him:

Oh, I like those, I wonder if we'll see something like them soon. ;)

/end scene

In a previous discussion about resources, I suggested a cycle of 1 drop troops that could be converted into resources but didn't follow through with a design. The shard golems seem to be a reasonable fulfillment of that idea.

Ebynfel
07-23-2014, 12:59 PM
Just give us a one-shot secondary Champion-Ability (that every Champ has) which reads: "Choose a Basic Shard from your Deck and out it on top of your Deck."

DONE!

honestly, guaranteeing a 5th shard on turn 5 could be a bit...wow. I'm thinking the lack of this inclusion is better for the health of the game as the randomness of such an effect is limited, and incredibly powerful given the correct circumstances. What the op is suggesting has a similar effect, but comes from the deck. Something you would have to make a real sacrifice to have. The sacrifice of a slot(or 4, or 8) in your 60. At this point, it becomes a choice to use such an ability if it is present, and the choice is made when you craft your deck. Don't draw the fix in game 1, but have enough shards? All good. Draw the fix, thus giving you shards in game 2? All good. But what if you drew something that made a board impact instead? Where does the pendulum swing on the balance between power and consistency. Honestly, even if I lose more to screw or flood, I'd rather have the power more often than not. but it would be a personal choice. Not something that feels just tacked on.

honestly, I like where the OP is going. it can be balanced, it can be fun, and it can give us new interactions that move the game forward. But, it could also be rather pointless to a good majority of games. If balanced well, it could diversify how deck creation is considered. As long as it isn't used simply as a crutch(like the one shot champ ability), and is factored in before the game ever starts(ie, in deckbuilding) I'd say it sounds pretty decent.

Hatts
07-23-2014, 01:11 PM
Just give us a one-shot secondary Champion-Ability (that every Champ has) which reads: "Choose a Basic Shard from your Deck and out it on top of your Deck."

DONE!

In an interview from last year (sorry no link, I am no Shadowelf) Cory talked about how he had a similar idea (although it would just pull one from the top 5 cards.) They tested it out and found it to be horribly broken.

kickinhead
07-23-2014, 01:13 PM
honestly, guaranteeing a 5th shard on turn 5 could be a bit...wow. I'm thinking the lack of this inclusion is better for the health of the game as the randomness of such an effect is limited, and incredibly powerful given the correct circumstances. What the op is suggesting has a similar effect, but comes from the deck. Something you would have to make a real sacrifice to have. The sacrifice of a slot(or 4, or 8) in your 60. At this point, it becomes a choice to use such an ability if it is present, and the choice is made when you craft your deck. Don't draw the fix in game 1, but have enough shards? All good. Draw the fix, thus giving you shards in game 2? All good. But what if you drew something that made a board impact instead? Where does the pendulum swing on the balance between power and consistency. Honestly, even if I lose more to screw or flood, I'd rather have the power more often than not. but it would be a personal choice. Not something that feels just tacked on.

honestly, I like where the OP is going. it can be balanced, it can be fun, and it can give us new interactions that move the game forward. But, it could also be rather pointless to a good majority of games. If balanced well, it could diversify how deck creation is considered. As long as it isn't used simply as a crutch(like the one shot champ ability), and is factored in before the game ever starts(ie, in deckbuilding) I'd say it sounds pretty decent.

YOu do make a sacrifice - the chance of drawing a card that isn't a shard and the risk of a shard being there anyways and then drawing more shards than you'd maybe like. If this isn't enough sacrifice, it could also cost some Charges.

My point is, that in MtG, you had tons of Lands and cards that gave you the right amount of ressources from any color and there was still a Problem with Land-screw/flood. I mean: it's even easier in Hex with the Threshhold instead of tapping the exact amount of Lands like in MtG.

I run a Deck with 25 Lands, 4 Shards of Fate and 4 Adaptation Devices and I still loose certain games simply by being Shard-screwed. Those Cards suggsted by the OP don't do anything to the amount of Shards you have, only the Threshhold and that's IMHO sth. you can get around with smart Deckbuilding. But not drawing any shard is sth. different.

@Hatts: I find it way more broken if games can simply be decided because of Luck when there were so many possible ways of fixing it. And I really can't imagine how my suggestion is broken in any way. If it is - just add a drawback; it's as simple as that.

I could literally come up with 10 different ways of fixing the Problem of drawing too few Shards off the Top of my Head, it's so easy:

- When drawing your opening hand, you may choose to change one card to a random shard instead of going for a mulligan. You cannot do this if you've already mulliganed.

- secondary Champ-ability, 2 Charges: Put a random Basic Shard on Top of your Library

- secondary Champ-ability, One-Shot: Put a random (or chosen) Basic Shard on Top of your Library + Any of the following Drawbacks: [You can't gain a Charge from this Shard/You loose 2 Life/Pay 1 (or 2) ressources/ You can't play any cards other than Basic Shards next turn/The Shard doesn't give you a Threshhold......whatever]

- A Champion that had the ability for 2 Charges "Put a random Basic Shard on Top of your Library" but no other Champion-ability, but could be used without the need for a certain threshhold.

Yes, you would need to test them and maybe some would turn out to be too good, but it would be so easy to tweak them and make them balanced.

N3rd4Christ
07-23-2014, 01:21 PM
Just give us a one-shot secondary Champion-Ability (that every Champ has) which reads: "Choose a Basic Shard from your Deck and out it on top of your Deck."

DONE!

Until your opponent makes you shuffle your deck lol,

Anywho,,,, great main post. We need more constructive criticism, which actually presents a solution to the problem instead of what we have seen so far.

Yoss
07-23-2014, 01:22 PM
Threshold fixing is easy (to design cards for). It's the screw/flood that's hard. The golem idea has merit, though the particulars need to be worked out. Lore wise, I'd expect them to be Elementals or maybe Artifacts (non-troop that summons either a shard or a troop) though, not Constructs.

I'd replace the "if this is in your opening hand" ability with:

Basic, X, discard this card: Create a <TYPE> shard and put it in your hand. X is the number of shards you've played this game. As this troop enters play, it loses this ability.
So it still works the same in your opening hand, but also works on later turns (at increased cost). So, if you hit X shards and then are screwed, you have to waste your entire resource pool for the turn converting the Elemental into a shard (which you can then play).

I would also increase the cost and stats of the troop. If the point is to mitigate screw up through X shards and to give an outlet for flood, the troop should cost at least X. So maybe cost 5 with the appropriate stats and ability for the shard represented. (Very rough guess: 4/4 crush for wild, 5/2 speed for ruby, 3/4 flight for saph, 3/5 steadfast for diam, 3/4 rage for blood.) I was actually tempted to make it cost 1X and tie the stats to X, but that might be too strong when X gets large. Perhaps at 2X cost...

Ebynfel
07-23-2014, 01:24 PM
YOu do make a sacrifice - the chance of drawing a card that isn't a shard and the risk of a shard being there anyways and then drawing more shards than you'd maybe like. If this isn't enough sacrifice, it could also cost some Charges.

My point is, that in MtG, you had tons of Lands and cards that gave you the right amount of ressources from any color and there was still a Problem with Land-screw/flood. I mean: it's even easier in Hex with the Threshhold instead of tapping the exact amount of Lands like in MtG.

I run a Deck with 25 Lands, 4 Shards of Fate and 4 Adaptation Devices and I still loose certain games simply by being Shard-screwed. Those Cards suggsted by the OP don't do anything to the amount of Shards you have, only the Threshhold and that's IMHO sth. you can get around with smart Deckbuilding. But not drawing any shard is sth. different.

A couple of the cards did do something about having the shards themselves in the form of golems. And honestly, the possibility for screw/flood is baked into the game. The sacrifice of taking a card and relocating it to a more opportune location at the time is not a sacrifice. At all. you're basically guaranteeing a drop at that point. Sure ,it's available to everyone. Sure, it speed up play considerably at times. but the pure chance for screw/flood is innate to the engine used, always has been and always will be.

Now, M:tG took the Op's approach a couple of times in regard to flood for their game a couple of times. They were, in honesty, some of my favorite cards. The cycle lands, in which they functioned the same as a basic, but you could pay 2 and discard them to draw a card. Then there was Retrace, a keyword that let you discard a land, and replay the spell from the graveyard in addition to paying it's casting cost. I loved those things. Flood diminished, which I think is the more important of the two to try to prevent with cards. Gives an option to build a little resource heavy and get away with it, thus negating screw more often.

now, back to the champ ability for all. It has, quite possibly, the chance to become quite broken. Say I'm on 4 with a bomb 5 drop in my hand. Without any sacrifice other thna my next draw, I Guarantee that I get my shard. That draw isn't sacrificed. It's optimized. Sure, it's a one-shot in the way you describe. yes, you can still get flooded out. But the choice was still made at that time, which action best affected the current state of the game. In that instance, RNG is impacted considerably for guaranteed ramp.

I'm not saying it isn't a solution. As if that were part of the game the players would adapt and use it. I'm just saying that, to me, it isn't a positive solution, as variance is a key factor in game play. Same with top decking a game winning card. Impacting that draw should not be automatic or always available. impacting that draw should require deck building that allows you to do so.

AswanJaguar
07-23-2014, 01:27 PM
One thing I like about Hearthstone (now, hear me out) is the flexible design of the Druid class. If you've played the Druid, you'll know that many of their class spells give you an option when you cast them. e.g. Keeper of the Grove allows you to either deal 2 damage or silence a minion when it comes into play. Starfall deals 5 damage to one minion or 2 damage to all enemy minions. It makes playing Druid a lot of fun due to the bi-modal nature of the class cards.

The shard golems above are an example of this and there are a ton of ways you can go to reduce frustration with the resource system and retain playability.

Heart of Nature
1 Resource, 1 Wild threshold
Quick Action, Common

Choose one: Target troop gains +3/+2 until end of turn, or gain +1/+1 resources.

This could very easily be a Heart cycle, each with shard-specific effects. Only the Wild one would give a temporary resource though.

Eurig's Shard Synthesizer
1 Resource
Artifact

Exhaust, void an artifact from your hand: Gain +0/+1
Exhaust, sacrifice Eurig's Shard Synthesizer: Gain +1/+1 and gain [Diamond], [Ruby], or [Sapphire] threshold.

Essentially options like these will ask deck designers whether they want to build towards consistency or power. If people have more fun with consistent decks that at least get to play out their central theme, then I don't see why we (as in the designers) couldn't come up with similar ideas to facilitate that without warping the current play experience.

Yoss
07-23-2014, 01:31 PM
Heart of Nature
1 Resource, 1 Wild threshold
Quick Action, Common

Choose one: Target troop gains +3/+2 until end of turn, or gain +1/+1 resources.

This could very easily be a Heart cycle, each with shard-specific effects. Only the Wild one would give a temporary resource though.

I'd run this in every deck I ever built. Makes Chloro look like utter crap.

AswanJaguar
07-23-2014, 01:41 PM
I'd run this in every deck I ever built. Makes Chloro look like utter crap.

Note that for one less resource, you do not get a threshold, nor do you thin your deck. It's meant as a jack-of-all-trades (JOAT?) card. Not as good as a dedicated solution, but more flexible in many instances.

Yoss
07-23-2014, 01:47 PM
Note that for one less resource, you do not get a threshold, nor do you thin your deck.

Trivial losses for the gain. It's almost strictly better than Brave, and that's without even considering the Wild Growth option!

AswanJaguar
07-23-2014, 01:54 PM
Trivial losses for the gain. It's almost strictly better than Brave, and that's without even considering the Wild Growth option!

Lack of playtesting aside, it's the bi-modality that is the focus, not the specific power level. The numbers can be tweaked to bring it in line to whatever power level is desired in the specific set it's in.

Yoss
07-23-2014, 01:58 PM
Lack of playtesting aside, it's the bi-modality that is the focus, not the specific power level. The numbers can be tweaked to bring it in line to whatever power level is desired in the specific set it's in.

Indeed. (Just bump the cost up to 2 and I'm sold.)

By the way, MTG has lots of lands like this, where they give only colorless mana, but come with an ability. This is basically the same idea, but generalized.

AswanJaguar
07-23-2014, 02:16 PM
Indeed. (Just bump the cost up to 2 and I'm sold.)

By the way, MTG has lots of lands like this, where they give only colorless mana, but come with an ability. This is basically the same idea, but generalized.

I like some of the lands that MTG has come out with, but I'm trying not to limit Hex to just abilities found on one type of card.

*Edit* Dammit, I lost my card. Here it is again, something a little more digital:

Rain of Shards
No resource cost (cannot be cast)
Constant

While Rain of Shards is in your deck, if you do not play a shard on your turn there is a 25% chance of a Shardshower at the end of your turn (gain +0/+1 resource and a random Ruby, Diamond or Sapphire shard, and deal 1 damage to all troops you control.)
Only one copy of Rain of Shards can be added to your deck during deckbuilding.

Here's an option that gives us free shards but damages our troops and becomes a dead draw at some point. I'm also envisioning a kick-ass animation for the Shardshower. Pew pew pew!

kickinhead
07-23-2014, 03:55 PM
A couple of the cards did do something about having the shards themselves in the form of golems. And honestly, the possibility for screw/flood is baked into the game. The sacrifice of taking a card and relocating it to a more opportune location at the time is not a sacrifice. At all. you're basically guaranteeing a drop at that point. Sure ,it's available to everyone. Sure, it speed up play considerably at times. but the pure chance for screw/flood is innate to the engine used, always has been and always will be.

Now, M:tG took the Op's approach a couple of times in regard to flood for their game a couple of times. They were, in honesty, some of my favorite cards. The cycle lands, in which they functioned the same as a basic, but you could pay 2 and discard them to draw a card. Then there was Retrace, a keyword that let you discard a land, and replay the spell from the graveyard in addition to paying it's casting cost. I loved those things. Flood diminished, which I think is the more important of the two to try to prevent with cards. Gives an option to build a little resource heavy and get away with it, thus negating screw more often.

now, back to the champ ability for all. It has, quite possibly, the chance to become quite broken. Say I'm on 4 with a bomb 5 drop in my hand. Without any sacrifice other thna my next draw, I Guarantee that I get my shard. That draw isn't sacrificed. It's optimized. Sure, it's a one-shot in the way you describe. yes, you can still get flooded out. But the choice was still made at that time, which action best affected the current state of the game. In that instance, RNG is impacted considerably for guaranteed ramp.

I'm not saying it isn't a solution. As if that were part of the game the players would adapt and use it. I'm just saying that, to me, it isn't a positive solution, as variance is a key factor in game play. Same with top decking a game winning card. Impacting that draw should not be automatic or always available. impacting that draw should require deck building that allows you to do so.

Okay, I get your point, how about this then?

One-shot secondary Champ-Ability: Discard a random non-Shard Card from your Hand and put a random Shard from your Deck into your Hand [Or] Discard a random Shard from your Hand and put a random non-Shard from your Deck into your Hand.

1) It would still not guarantee you a big combo, because you could potentially discard your big Combo-Card.
2) It would still provide a Sense of Risk and Chance, but gave you the option to get out of a Situation where you are Shard-screwed/flooded.
3) You would have to weigh risk VS. reward to use this Option and it wouldn't just be an Ability that everyone used in every game, but basically only when you are in a Position where you are heavily disadvantaged because of Luck.
4) There would be a serious Tension between the two Options and you'd have to actually make a considerate Choice which one to use.

Yoss
07-23-2014, 04:42 PM
Interesting idea and much better than the other champ-based shard things I've seen. Rather than discard it should exhange the card in hand with the card in deck.

Seems like most games you'd save it for when you draw your 6th (or whatever top of curve is) shard and shuffle it back in to get a non-shard. You'd only use the "get shard" version in those (rare) times when you're screwed. In other words, I don't think there's as much tension as you're hoping for. The choice will be easy in the vast majority of cases.

Ebynfel
07-23-2014, 04:49 PM
Okay, I get your point, how about this then?

One-shot secondary Champ-Ability: Discard a random non-Shard Card from your Hand and put a random Shard from your Deck into your Hand [Or] Discard a random Shard from your Hand and put a random non-Shard from your Deck into your Hand.

1) It would still not guarantee you a big combo, because you could potentially discard your big Combo-Card.
2) It would still provide a Sense of Risk and Chance, but gave you the option to get out of a Situation where you are Shard-screwed/flooded.
3) You would have to weigh risk VS. reward to use this Option and it wouldn't just be an Ability that everyone used in every game, but basically only when you are in a Position where you are heavily disadvantaged because of Luck.
4) There would be a serious Tension between the two Options and you'd have to actually make a considerate Choice which one to use.

honestly, it looks a little better. However I really just don't think option A is really needed in this case. And having 2 or 3 charge powers in PVP seems like a good way to go to me. With option B, as I described before. Or a card-designed approach to the same goal, cycling away extra resources allows you to build a heavier resource base. Sure, chances of being screwed exist, but removing a little of the flood means consistency is favored with a heavier resource base. Leaving the draw variance in play. I don't believe it would necessarily be effective or balanced to really differentiate screw and flood here, with the choice of popping a random of a shard or non shard for the other.

Again, much better approach than previous, but I think the best way to tackle such a problem(and I could very well be wrong here) is in the ability to cycle. This is one reason why people love Secret Lab. It's a way to mitigate flood. They don't mind having extra resources they can spirit away, so they gain consistency through filtering. Having this option just be available in some form on a subset of cards is really close to what some people want. Now, I am not saying my way or the highway. I am not saying that others are wrong. Just seems to me that attacking the flood side is enough, and still preserves the "shuffle" of a deck that provides the RNG in a competitive environment. Now, with that said, I am not utterly opposed to a "Discard a card, draw a card" champ or power associated as a secondary. Even if it specified a resource that had to be pitched. now with Hex, we begin attacking the resource flood and late game, we do lose one thing that can be very important.

Our charge powers. No shards or other methods to charge late game means that we might miss a free draw, or an activation of Palamedes. In and of itself, meh not too bad. But there are times when that one interaction is game defining. So here, I am essentially arguing against myself. Attacking the flood gives us a number of drawbacks, but there really is no effective way to attack screw directly without fundamentally changing some things. Those fundamental changes would then be needed to be introduced in a specific, well balanced and designed fashion or suddenly a lot gets thrown into the air. I really like the idea of mitigating the RNG to a point. I really do, just that similar fashions to the OP line up more with what I personally think would be best.

kickinhead, it is nothing personal. It really isn't and some day I may be proven wrong. I still think a tacked on charge power isn't the right approach. However i do like option 2 over option 1. Again, this is all personal opinion that comes from 2 decades of TCG experience, the good and the bad, across several different games. And again, i am not trying to imply that a certain way is the only way whatsoever, just that some options may be difficult for me to see the complete picture on in the same view. Experience has shown me that variance is healthy, and ways to mitigate it should come primarily from deck construction in some manner. Granted, it may be me being a little hard headed, because I havent really seen too much in the way of a charge power before Hex :)

Voormas
07-23-2014, 11:33 PM
...This is a constructive way to approach the crisis of resource management... Listed below I'll provide suggestions on how to address the resource crisis...

What crisis?

Yoss
07-23-2014, 11:51 PM
What crisis?

Me losing in Draft to a topdecked King Gabe just before I was going to alpha strike for the win with Onslaught. I demand an immediate hotfix patch to fix this!

WWKnight
07-24-2014, 01:59 AM
I think all resources should have "Draw a card" underneath "Gain a charge".

Mana screw becomes a thing of the past, as do dead draws.

oncewasblind
07-24-2014, 09:25 AM
I think all resources should have "Draw a card" underneath "Gain a charge".

Mana screw becomes a thing of the past, as do dead draws.

That's a resource flood fix, not a resource screw fix. Also makes some significant balance changes to the game, and lessens deck building strategy. Interesting direction though.

On a side note, welcome back WWKnight, haven't seen you in months.

Yoss
07-24-2014, 09:27 AM
That's a resource flood fix, not a resource screw fix.
If it fixes flood, then it also fixes screw because you can just run more shards. Hex has been trying to tell us this for a very long time now and people don't listen.


Also makes some significant balance changes to the game, and lessens deck building strategy.
Yeah, I haven't thought it through in detail, but having every resource cantrip doesn't smell right to me.

Terikan
07-24-2014, 10:25 AM
Change the way shuffling works. Resources are shuffled separate from non-resources, then blended together for even distribution, though the order you'll get types of resources still random (because otherwise spectral decks would be too easy).

oncewasblind
07-24-2014, 10:28 AM
If it fixes flood, then it also fixes screw because you can just run more shards. Hex has been trying to tell us this for a very long time now and people don't listen.

I'm on board with that. At the same time there's an important distinction that should be made between screw and flood because they both interact with game balance differently.

Resource Screw specifically is a troublesome problem to fix in my opinion, rather than flood, as it lessens the penalty for playing tight with your resource management. The tighter you play the higher the risk, and also the higher the potential reward. Since some games can end as early as the 5th turn, reliable resource screw fixes inherently shortens game time, and makes aggro decks stonger and control decks weaker.

Resource flood fixes therefore inherently have the opposite effect. The lesson is that small changes have big consequences. Take Might and Magic: Duel of Champions for example, a CCG where players gain 1 guaranteed resource per turn, and have the choice of drawing a second card by using their champion ability each turn.

These two changes make that game very troop and board control based, whoever gets ahead tends to win every game, and there's rarely a case of a control deck being viable unless it specifically exploits a fallacy in the design space.

On a related note, I updated my original post with three new card ideas which attempt to help with resource flood/screw. Check them out! I think they provide reasonable setbacks for the advantages they provide.

cavench
07-24-2014, 10:33 AM
Change the way shuffling works. Resources are shuffled separate from non-resources, then blended together for even distribution, though the order you'll get types of resources still random (because otherwise spectral decks would be too easy).

What do you mean by "even distribution", as in "for every X cards drawn, 1 shard is guaranteed"? If so I don't like that. I agree with the "crisis management" mentioned in the OP.

Turtlewing
07-24-2014, 10:45 AM
I think all resources should have "Draw a card" underneath "Gain a charge".

Mana screw becomes a thing of the past, as do dead draws.

Not really, you still have to build a deck that has enough shards and mulligan intelligently (#1 and #2 cause of people getting screwed is failing at one or both of those).

Also it doesn't completely counter dead draws, as you can still play a shard only to have it draw you another shard (which can't be payed until your next turn).

Also globally making all shards can rip stikes me as being detrimental to overall balance.

A cycle or two of nonbasic shards that cantrip but have some drawback for it would work. Perhaps something like:

+0/+1 resources, +1 threshold, draw a card.

or

+0/+1 resources, +1 charge, draw a card.

or:

+1/+1 resources, draw a card.

Unhurtable
07-24-2014, 11:07 AM
"omg no this will shake up the meta too much and muh card value"

funktion
07-24-2014, 11:38 AM
Haven't read anything other than the OP. Thank you for not starting one of "those" threads... this was refreshing.

oncewasblind
07-24-2014, 12:06 PM
Haven't read anything other than the OP. Thank you for not starting one of "those" threads... this was refreshing.

Thanks! You're welcome. =)

Bells
07-24-2014, 12:24 PM
It's totally turning into one of these threads though...

ErwinVonRommel
07-24-2014, 01:04 PM
it started off strong. /sigh

hex_colin
07-24-2014, 01:15 PM
Since colin_hex is probably busy in meatspace, allow me to unconvincingly fill in for him:

Oh, I like those, I wonder if we'll see something like them soon. ;)

/end scene

In a previous discussion about resources, I suggested a cycle of 1 drop troops that could be converted into resources but didn't follow through with a design. The shard golems seem to be a reasonable fulfillment of that idea.

LOL... Yup, Comic-Con doesn't leave much time for forums... :)

oncewasblind
07-28-2014, 11:24 AM
I added some new card suggestions, would love to hear your guys' thoughts on them.