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View Full Version : The Major single thresh diamond gem



wasichu
07-25-2014, 08:07 AM
I would like the CZE team to really revisit this gem and give the players a reason to use this gem. I know its been previously posted but I never seen any CZE response to it.
Maybe change it to gain life when this troop or any other troop enters the battlefield. Or when this troop enters the battlefield it gains defense equal to its attack. ( I like this because a lot of the major socketed troops are weak in defense.

As it is Gaining life for the defense of a troop one time is horrible.

syphonhail
07-25-2014, 08:12 AM
The gem originally gained life based on a creature's cost. When we were playing with this gem with our own make-shift build of the game; putting this in inquisitor was nice and fun.

However, at this point, CZE is unlikely to change the gems of a released set. If a gem is weak now, that allows them to offer a better gem in a future block.

Scammanator
07-25-2014, 08:14 AM
It might also have a place in a PvE card that we haven't seen yet.

fido_one
07-25-2014, 08:19 AM
It might also have a place in a PvE card that we haven't seen yet.

...or a future set of PVP cards. Who knows what they'll dream up - I know that there were gems I thought were total rubbish before the light clicked on when I saw how other people used them. Granted, no one has figured out any use of this gem in set 1, but maybe there will be a trick in a future card that will have this click in (errr, I don't know, like an action on a card that says 'if you have 2 diamond threshold and pay 2 resources, send the card back your hand and revert the casting cost to 0/1').

EDIT: and I take it back, there are some jank decks that can use this gem, but it's like building a deck around shrewd manipulation in my opinion - it's for the sake of making the gem work rather than any sort of good deck building.

EDIT-EDIT: Also if for some reason you don't want to aggro Master Theorycrafter, this gem will pump you up at least 3 life per turn (more if you have some shield trainers, etc.). Though I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to aggro MT [over this gem]... then again I've never been good at figuring this stuff out...

Lawlschool
07-25-2014, 09:32 AM
It was pretty popular with Protectorate Defender in early alpha before they changed him around. We'll likely see a decent use for it in later sets, it's not really a big deal that it's fairly worthless right now.

YourOpponent
07-25-2014, 09:47 AM
Radiant armor is the secret to that....use it with Protectorate Defender...an Inquisitor...and you have something pretty useful that they will be much more hesitant with sending back to your hand....not to mention it more janky comboes.

Viziroth
07-25-2014, 10:57 AM
It would work well in a diamond version of inquisitor that was 1/3 or 1/4 or 2/4. Which may be a card that comes out in a future set. Or a diamond person with something similar to master theory crafter's ability. Or maybe we'll get a socketed diamond constant that reads "when troops enter play they get the socket ability of this constant until the end of your next turn."

Ebynfel
07-25-2014, 01:15 PM
Honestly, there's a spoiled set 2 Orc that this may actually have a place in, in the right deck.... Not every gem needs to be as useful as the others all the time. Sure lifegain on its own is bad, so on and so forth. But lifegain on a large troop with a minor socket as well, could be a thing. i don't know if the decks that run that will exist, but I am hopeful the gem will see uses. Sure, damage is usually better. But we're not always in Ruby.

Yoss
07-25-2014, 01:27 PM
However, at this point, CZE is unlikely to change the gems of a released set. If a gem is weak now, that allows them to offer a better gem in a future block.

Uhm, what? Why wouldn't they tinker with gems? No one owns gems. They only promised not to nerf/buff PvP cards. Everything else in the game is wide open for tweaks, including the base rules of the game (like if they wanted crush to go through seaguls or if they wanted damage doubling to happen before damage assignment or change starting health to 25).

EDIT: I'm not saying they SHOULD change any thing in particular, just that they are well within their rights to do so and that I hope they will do what makes the best game.

syphonhail
07-25-2014, 02:02 PM
Uhm, what? Why wouldn't they tinker with gems? No one owns gems. They only promised not to nerf/buff PvP cards. Everything else in the game is wide open for tweaks, including the base rules of the game (like if they wanted crush to go through seaguls or if they wanted damage doubling to happen before damage assignment or change starting health to 25).

EDIT: I'm not saying they SHOULD change any thing in particular, just that they are well within their rights to do so and that I hope they will do what makes the best game.

I said unlikely; I am not sure how you could infer that it was likely based on anything Cryptozoic has said. In fact, please show us evidence where it is likely if you are so shocked by me stating that it is unlikely. They stated after the final changes to a few cards (e.g. Eye, a few dwarves and bunnies) and gems, that it was a finalization of Set 1.

"With these changes, along with the final cards and the final gems having been implemented with the last two patches, you will now have access to the complete Set 1 in its entirety." (https://hextcg.com/patch-v829-development-highlights/)

Yoss
07-25-2014, 02:09 PM
I'd say there's not really any evidence in either direction. They'll modify them at whim as far as I'm aware. In any case, this isn't something I care to argue about. If they change it, then maybe the meta will shift; if they don't, then it will continue to sit there unused. I really don't care either way as long as they don't make it OP (and even then it wouldn't be the end of the world).

syphonhail
07-25-2014, 02:20 PM
I'd say there's not really any evidence in either direction. They'll modify them at whim as far as I'm aware. In any case, this isn't something I care to argue about. If they change it, then maybe the meta will shift; if they don't, then it will continue to sit there unused. I really don't care either way as long as they don't make it OP (and even then it wouldn't be the end of the world).

Final suggests finalized and there have not been a change to cards/gems yet; we know gems will come in future sets/blocks. I would want to see positive evidence that they will change these gems before considering it other than final.

DanTheMeek
07-25-2014, 04:51 PM
I just want to chime in that I'd like it if they made this gem not awful.

And while changes to gems is a bit more up in the air, I know they were much more clear that they won't change pvp cards, but it would make me smile if they broke that rule just this once and changed Zodiac Shaman to have a corrupted major socket that said "this may only be socketed with [insert name of the major diamond gem this topic is talking about]". They'd be taking arguably the worst card and combining it with arguably the worst gem to create something pretty hilarious (why have a gem slot if you can only use a single gem) and nonsensical, yet almost kind of playable.

Actually I really hope there's a pve equipment now that does that, puts a major socket on zodiac shaman that can only be fitted with that gem :D

YourOpponent
07-26-2014, 05:31 AM
I said unlikely; I am not sure how you could infer that it was likely based on anything Cryptozoic has said. In fact, please show us evidence where it is likely if you are so shocked by me stating that it is unlikely. They stated after the final changes to a few cards (e.g. Eye, a few dwarves and bunnies) and gems, that it was a finalization of Set 1.

"With these changes, along with the final cards and the final gems having been implemented with the last two patches, you will now have access to the complete Set 1 in its entirety." (https://hextcg.com/patch-v829-development-highlights/)

Exactly. It seems they are trying to keep the content for pvp as stable as possible. So it wouldn't make sense to be changing gem effects throughout the same set.

Zurai
07-26-2014, 11:44 AM
It's definitely strange that the diamond enter-play gem is the only one that doesn't make sense with the same-shard major socket troop. Each of the other same-shard troop/gem combos are at least reasonable if not always stellar, but the diamond one is just plain bad.

IndigoShade
07-26-2014, 02:26 PM
It's definitely strange that the diamond enter-play gem is the only one that doesn't make sense with the same-shard major socket troop. Each of the other same-shard troop/gem combos are at least reasonable if not always stellar, but the diamond one is just plain bad.

Yeah, I never understood the change to the Protectorate Defender. Even if they felt he was too strong before, how does a 2/1 even fit the name/ theme of the card much less work with the life gain major diamond gem? Granted, he can be pretty good with the +1/+1 gem if you can sneak him through somehow.

wolzarg
07-26-2014, 02:54 PM
As the maker of the original antifanclub for that gem i still think its just bleh! Please replace with litterally anything, would even take +0/+2 because i don't know maybe someone wants that!

DanTheMeek
07-26-2014, 11:53 PM
As the maker of the original antifanclub for that gem i still think its just bleh! Please replace with litterally anything, would even take +0/+2 because i don't know maybe someone wants that!

Its sad because its true. Though your +0/+2 made me laugh since that would effectively let your run 8 rigid buffaloes. I think we can all agree, that would be too good. The real insult of this gem has always been that its a major gem, if it was minor you could at least run it on a Mystic of the Tranquil Dream and almost feel like you were getting something out of it in draft. As it is, this gem is about as qualified to be considered major as a can of dr. pepper is qualified to practice medicine.

Ebynfel
07-27-2014, 04:23 PM
Its sad because its true. Though your +0/+2 made me laugh since that would effectively let your run 8 rigid buffaloes. I think we can all agree, that would be too good. The real insult of this gem has always been that its a major gem, if it was minor you could at least run it on a Mystic of the Tranquil Dream and almost feel like you were getting something out of it in draft. As it is, this gem is about as qualified to be considered major as a can of dr. pepper is qualified to practice medicine.

Hey, Dr Pepper knows how to cure my ills! And sure is tasty!

DanTheMeek
07-27-2014, 05:03 PM
Hey, Dr Pepper knows how to cure my ills! And sure is tasty!

I stand corrected.

For what its worth I happen to be drinking a can of dr. pepper as I type this, so despite my previous statements I clearly have faith in the good dr.'s refreshment skills if nothing else.

Vorpal
07-27-2014, 06:10 PM
The gem is terrible and protectorate defender is terrible after they nerfed him.

Before the two sort of kind of worked together in a one trick pony sort of way.

Yoss
07-27-2014, 08:13 PM
Is there any gem, major or minor, that is worse than this one? I can't think of one.

Better:
Flight
Quick
Card Draw on damage
CIP Mill

Speed
"Intimidate"
Discard/draw on damage
CIP Damage

Spellshield
+1/+1
Rhino on damage
CIP Buff

Rage
Blocker Debuff
Grave Draw on damage
CIP Debuff

Swiftstrike
Lifedrain
Global +1/+1 on damage

EDIT:
Updated.

All of those are better. So yeah, RIP major CIP diamond.

Vorpal
07-28-2014, 09:47 AM
Isn't the last diamond lifedrain? That one is definitely better.

Viziroth
07-28-2014, 10:18 AM
Missing 'wheel of fate' effect on hit ruby gem, and -1/-1 to blockers blood gem.

Ebynfel
07-28-2014, 10:20 AM
Is there any gem, major or minor, that is worse than this one? I can't think of one.

Better:
Flight
Quick
Card Draw
ETB Mill
Speed
"Intimidate"
ETB Damage
Spellshield
+1/+1
ETB Buff
Rhino
Rage
Debuff
Grave Draw
Swiftstrike
Global +1/+1

Can't remember the other ruby, blood, and diamond. Maybe one of those three is worse?

Blood is -1/-1 to blockers
Diamond is Lifedrain
Ruby is on damage, each player discards their hand and draws 3?

Vorpal
07-28-2014, 10:50 AM
The blood gem is pretty good, but bugged.

The ruby gem might at least figure in an aggro deck where you expect to be mostly out of cards.

Could also be useful in a mill/reginald deck.

Deathfog
07-28-2014, 12:10 PM
Lack of socketable wall troops makes this seem inferior, lack of majors with said properties makes this really weak outside of Master Theorycrafter.

fido_one
07-28-2014, 01:29 PM
The blood gem is pretty good, but bugged.

The ruby gem might at least figure in an aggro deck where you expect to be mostly out of cards.

Could also be useful in a mill/reginald deck.

I use that gem with Eldritch Dreamers for my mill/reggie deck, it's a lot of fun and fits perfectly, so I'd call it a 'useful' gem if you ever want to do some milling.

Vorpal
07-28-2014, 02:30 PM
Yeah, even the ruby gem is useful. That makes the diamond major far and away the least useful gem...

Zurai
07-28-2014, 03:57 PM
Kind of reminiscent of the original Magic "get 3 of something for 1 mana" cycle. Blue had Ancestral Recall, draw 3. Red gave us Lightning Bolt, 3 damage. Black was Dark Ritual, 3 mana. Green was Giant Growth, +3/+3. And then... White had Healing Salve, 3 healing. Yeah, one of those things is not quite up to par with the rest; we have, in order, Power 9, great, great, playable in limited formats, and terrible.

Remind you of something?

Vorpal
07-28-2014, 05:05 PM
The fact of the matter is that if you ARE interested in healing, the lifedrain is a far more powerful choice.

Particularly so on the protectorate defender (with a higher attack than defense) but even in general lifedrain is better at healing than a single one time static heal amount. Put lifedrain on a flyer or someone with evasion or something and you have created a serious, serious problem for your opponent.

Put the gem of healing on your protectorate defender and you've gained a whole 1 health. Wow.

Yoss
07-28-2014, 06:04 PM
Updated my post, FWIW.

Ebynfel
07-28-2014, 07:14 PM
The fact of the matter is that if you ARE interested in healing, the lifedrain is a far more powerful choice.

Particularly so on the protectorate defender (with a higher attack than defense) but even in general lifedrain is better at healing than a single one time static heal amount. Put lifedrain on a flyer or someone with evasion or something and you have created a serious, serious problem for your opponent.

Put the gem of healing on your protectorate defender and you've gained a whole 1 health. Wow.

I honestly most prefer the wild buff gem on Defender if I ever play him. He's then another source for more damage that cycles in the deck like Wild growth does. Plus a body for a while.

Vorpal
07-28-2014, 07:25 PM
I prefer either the buff gem or the wild rhino gem on the defender. With the right deck you can at least get some pretty nice tempo plays going that way.