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View Full Version : HEX Update - Shirts and Patches



Shaqattaq
09-19-2014, 04:58 PM
Hi HEXers! We have a small weekly update for today. Primarily, we’re working towards the big UI client patch. You’ll see a lot more polish in the visual presentation of the game, bug fixes, some new features, and more.

https://hextcg.com/hex-update-shirts-and-patches/

Vorsa
09-19-2014, 05:07 PM
Short, but fairly interesting - looking forward to the new UI. :cool:

Zophie
09-19-2014, 05:08 PM
Thanks for the update!


Yes, these items are fulfilled by Amazon so they qualify for super saver shipping and Amazon Prime.

YAY TSHIRTS! :D

Counter
09-19-2014, 05:11 PM
If I understand correctly are you saying the T-Shirts are printed on this brand? American Apparel http://www.americanapparel.net/

Shaqattaq
09-19-2014, 05:14 PM
If I understand correctly are you saying the T-Shirts are printed on this brand? American Apparel http://www.americanapparel.net/

Yes. From that company.

schild
09-19-2014, 05:17 PM
Which means the size options are smedium and smarge.

Does a /reasonable/ estimation exist for when we'll actually see the patch and set 2?

Shaqattaq
09-19-2014, 05:29 PM
Which means the size options are smedium and smarge.

Does a /reasonable/ estimation exist for when we'll actually see the patch and set 2?

Unfortunately I can't provide that date right now. When we're able to announce a date for the patch to the public, you'll be able to find it on our website.

schild
09-19-2014, 05:33 PM
Shaqattaq, I hope you're still reading this. Things are kind of at a crossroads right now. Very clearly there were some poor estimations made about the development schedule and scope of the patches that are happening in tandem. Between set 2, UI overhaul, Unity Updates, etc. - well, fans are sitting in a black hole of suck waffling back and forth between "is something coming?" and "no, nothing is coming."

If things spiraled out of control, say so. That's not a bad thing. It happens in development all the time. As far as MMOGs go, you're a pretty junior dev house, and admitting that "shit happens" invokes a lot more good will than one would think. If things were poorly estimated, that's cool too, ya know? It happens everywhere. The problem right now is every update and comment is basically "STAY THE COURSE."

That doesn't help. It only hurts. We're left guessing. There's literally nothing worse than a fanbase that has no clue what's going on.

Thrawn
09-19-2014, 05:47 PM
Agreed, I'd much rather see "Guys, we're way behind, we had awful estimations, and here's what's actually going on." than fake sunshine and no real updates for months.

Actually knowing what's going on in the game I WANT to support keeps me interested and following it, even if it's not always positive news. Having no clue what's really going on makes me want to wander off and find something else to follow.

DreamPuppet
09-19-2014, 05:49 PM
So are Shirts available to non US folks?

Shaqattaq
09-19-2014, 05:52 PM
Shaqattaq, I hope you're still reading this. Things are kind of at a crossroads right now. Very clearly there were some poor estimations made about the development schedule and scope of the patches that are happening in tandem. Between set 2, UI overhaul, Unity Updates, etc. - well, fans are sitting in a black hole of suck waffling back and forth between "is something coming?" and "no, nothing is coming."

If things spiraled out of control, say so. That's not a bad thing. It happens in development all the time. As far as MMOGs go, you're a pretty junior dev house, and admitting that "shit happens" invokes a lot more good will than one would think. If things were poorly estimated, that's cool too, ya know? It happens everywhere. The problem right now is every update and comment is basically "STAY THE COURSE."

That doesn't help. It only hurts. We're left guessing. There's literally nothing worse than a fanbase that has no clue what's going on.

Clearly things have gone slower than we'd like in this patch's development, but it's also an update to a service that basically touches every single part of the game along with many other updates. That's why we haven't given out a specific date until we're 100% sure we're going to hit that date. But it's coming. I don't know as to why anyone would believe any different. And when the patch releases, we'll begin work on the next patch. The game is always going to be in a cycle where updates, fixes, feature implementation are on the way. That's essentially modern online gaming.

I'm in the belief that it's worse to start discussing things early before they're ready to be delivered as it artificially extends the time people are in wait for something specific, and it only allows us to speak of things in too early of a stage to give any firm, significant information so it leaves players to speculate and guess.

Thrawn
09-19-2014, 05:56 PM
I'm in the belief that it's worse to start discussing things early before they're ready to be delivered as it artificially extends the time people are in wait for something specific, and it only allows us to speak of things in too early of a stage to give any firm, significant information so it leaves players to speculate and guess.

Probably shouldn't have had stuff like this (and a bunch of others) in the Kickstarter itself then.


We have been in development for almost two years and have accomplished a lot. As you can see from our videos and screenshots, the game is looking incredible. But we need your help to finish. With this last push we can fund HEX’s remaining development and give this game the launch it deserves.

Granted, that specific example is more vague, but it does give an impression that we had the base of a game at least that just needed to be polished up and finished.

schild
09-19-2014, 06:29 PM
Clearly things have gone slower than we'd like in this patch's development, but it's also an update to a service that basically touches every single part of the game along with many other updates. That's why we haven't given out a specific date until we're 100% sure we're going to hit that date. But it's coming. I don't know as to why anyone would believe any different. And when the patch releases, we'll begin work on the next patch. The game is always going to be in a cycle where updates, fixes, feature implementation are on the way. That's essentially modern online gaming.

I'm in the belief that it's worse to start discussing things early before they're ready to be delivered as it artificially extends the time people are in wait for something specific, and it only allows us to speak of things in too early of a stage to give any firm, significant information so it leaves players to speculate and guess.

Ok. Is there a reason set 2 has been delayed? I mean, it would seem to me that it's independent from the QoL stuff that this patch is bringing. Granted, I don't actually know what all is in this patch except some stuff we saw at Gencon... which was oddly prioritized given the missing features. Regardless, what's the actual timeline now?

Huge Megapatch Thing -> Open Beta -> Some form of PvE -> Set 2 -> Trading somewhere maybe?

From a purely game design standpoint, this 350 card meta along with a stale draft format is more damning than a redesigned hand, champion, and some cleaned up text (but again, the contents of this patch has been wisp-like at best).

Ethereal
09-19-2014, 06:40 PM
To me it sounds like they want the interface to look good and work well before the open beta starts. A lot of new players will be forming their all-important first impression of the game and the slickness of the UI is a big part of that. Those new players are going to be busy learning to play with the set 1 cards so I'm not surprised to see the UI update coming before set 2.

schild
09-19-2014, 07:02 PM
I fully understand and appreciate, conceptually, why they would delay set 2 until open beta and the UI update. But as those things get delayed, all its doing is making current players more laissez-faire about the whole game.

Keeping things fresh for EVERYONE is hard, but you know what, sometimes you just have to suck it up. Set 2 would get all the current players playing constructed a LOT more and drafting a LOT more. It's not even a math question, it's guaranteed. Doing weekly rare-drafts right now is doing nothing but burning me (and many others) out.

So yea, I get the concept of having to make an awful decision when presented with two less than perfect options.

deathandtexas
09-19-2014, 07:14 PM
Not surprising.

malloc31
09-19-2014, 08:03 PM
Clearly things have gone slower than we'd like in this patch's development, but it's also an update to a service that basically touches every single part of the game along with many other updates. That's why we haven't given out a specific date until we're 100% sure we're going to hit that date. But it's coming. I don't know as to why anyone would believe any different. And when the patch releases, we'll begin work on the next patch. The game is always going to be in a cycle where updates, fixes, feature implementation are on the way. That's essentially modern online gaming.

I'm in the belief that it's worse to start discussing things early before they're ready to be delivered as it artificially extends the time people are in wait for something specific, and it only allows us to speak of things in too early of a stage to give any firm, significant information so it leaves players to speculate and guess.

I don't think any one is asking for the date the patch will be released. But "soon" is as pointless as saying nothing at all, we would like to hear is it going to be weeks? months? years? Will there be any actual content (something new to do in the game?)? and what will that content be?

Yoss
09-19-2014, 08:18 PM
An ordered list, without dates, of which features are coming first would be a great start. Then updates can consist of just two things: progress on current top of the list item, and any changes to planned release order.

*shrug*

I'll freely admit community management isn't my forte though, so I defer to others more capable in this area.

Chiany
09-19-2014, 08:25 PM
I agree with all that has already been said above.

Updates should actually be updates, not vague mentions of something vague that will come someday.
If you look at the content of this "update" :

- New patch: Someday (no idea when) there will be a new patch with more polished UI (we already knew that as it has been mentioned several times already), bug fixes (obviously), some new features (tells us nothing), and more (even more nothing).
- Shirts go on sale monday: not game related, therefor not important to the gamer who has been waiting for over a year now.
- Rock League: Has nothing to do with the development of the game, and isn't even a CZE organized tournament. It's just a well deserved shout out to Kroan.
- Spoiler (Shoggoth): This card has already been spoiled on all social media, and been discussed a lot on the official forum, and other sites. Nothing new here.

If you (CZE) have nothing new to tells us, just say so, but don't go rehash news we already know.

ossuary
09-19-2014, 08:37 PM
Granted, that specific example is more vague, but it does give an impression that we had the base of a game at least that just needed to be polished up and finished.

At the time they were ramping up the Kickstarter, they were just getting the game back from Gas Powered Games. They didn't have very many actual coders / engineers at the time (that's part of what the funds from the KS were for), since GPG was supposed to be doing the actual video game development piece. It's no secret that CZE VASTLY underestimated how difficult it would be to complete the game in-house with a new team, inexperienced with each other and the specific codebase. It's also pretty clear that GPG grossly misrepresented how much work / the quality of work they had done prior to blowing up.

CZE doesn't talk about this kind of stuff, because it's simply not done in the business world. You don't tell tales, you don't throw other companies (even struggling ones) under the bus, because it gives you a bad name and makes other companies and engineers wary of working with you. So you're never going to get "the full story" from them, that information just isn't ever going to be put out there for the perusal of casual rubberneckers. Their only choices were to either give up and kill the project, or pick up the pieces and do the work themselves. Based on what we've seen over the course of the alpha and how much of the backend data files have changed, my personal opinion (15 years as a programmer and designer, FWIW) is that the engine they got from GPG was a mish-mashed, incomplete pile of shit, that they probably had to rewrite or repurpose 75%+ of. Taking over someone else's code is NEVER easy work or a fun time. Even less so if it's bad code. Even less less less so if that bad code isn't properly documented and annotated.

I know all of these delays look bad to outsiders and people who don't have experience with early stage code development. I get it. Try to keep in mind that CZE made the (frankly, insane) decision to let us all in SUPER early, as one of the rewards for pledging. At the time, it probably seemed like a neat idea, since they figured it would only takes them a couple of months to clean up the code GPG handed over and push to a soft open beta. It just didn't work out that way. There's a reason most game companies don't let consumers anywhere NEAR their product until it's basically done. Early Access is a very new thing, and you'll notice there are no AAA studios jumping on that band wagon. The sausage factory is a brutal, ugly place that not many people can stand the site of.

I'm not saying they can't do better; obviously, they can and should strive to do better than they have been. They could also be more open about what's going on. I agree with Will in principle about not talking about stuff too early, but I think there's a happier medium between the vague platitudes we currently get, and the detailed business world project reports some of you seem to think you deserve, where they could share a little more information about what's going on to keep everyone more engaged, without spoiling everything ahead of time. But it's their decision how to handle that, and I know enough about how project management and program development work to remain patient and understanding, despite my personal disappointment that I'm not kicking the Kraken's slimy ass all over Entrath yet. We'll get there.

Glae
09-19-2014, 09:30 PM
I'm excited about shirts. I was spamming refresh over gencon to buy one. And while its true that an American Apparel Large is not an Internet User Large, i'm sure Hex wont be foolish enough to not make XLs. Will they have XXXXLs? Well, I don't think they come that big... I assume XXXL is "Smedium."

The fact that they're already warning people the next is gonna be big and will require downloading the install is actually hopeful. Not just "its coming" but theyre giving some instructions, and those instructions mean the patch is gonna be big enough that's its worth downloading from scratch. Really hoping we're finally gonna see some bugs get fixed. FINALLY.

malloc31
09-19-2014, 09:34 PM
At the time they were ramping up the Kickstarter, they were just getting the game back from Gas Powered Games. They didn't have very many actual coders / engineers at the time (that's part of what the funds from the KS were for), since GPG was supposed to be doing the actual video game development piece. It's no secret that CZE VASTLY underestimated how difficult it would be to complete the game in-house with a new team, inexperienced with each other and the specific codebase. It's also pretty clear that GPG grossly misrepresented how much work / the quality of work they had done prior to blowing up.

CZE doesn't talk about this kind of stuff, because it's simply not done in the business world. You don't tell tales, you don't throw other companies (even struggling ones) under the bus, because it gives you a bad name and makes other companies and engineers wary of working with you. So you're never going to get "the full story" from them, that information just isn't ever going to be put out there for the perusal of casual rubberneckers. Their only choices were to either give up and kill the project, or pick up the pieces and do the work themselves. Based on what we've seen over the course of the alpha and how much of the backend data files have changed, my personal opinion (15 years as a programmer and designer, FWIW) is that the engine they got from GPG was a mish-mashed, incomplete pile of shit, that they probably had to rewrite or repurpose 75%+ of. Taking over someone else's code is NEVER easy work or a fun time. Even less so if it's bad code. Even less less less so if that bad code isn't properly documented and annotated.

I know all of these delays look bad to outsiders and people who don't have experience with early stage code development. I get it. Try to keep in mind that CZE made the (frankly, insane) decision to let us all in SUPER early, as one of the rewards for pledging. At the time, it probably seemed like a neat idea, since they figured it would only takes them a couple of months to clean up the code GPG handed over and push to a soft open beta. It just didn't work out that way. There's a reason most game companies don't let consumers anywhere NEAR their product until it's basically done. Early Access is a very new thing, and you'll notice there are no AAA studios jumping on that band wagon. The sausage factory is a brutal, ugly place that not many people can stand the site of.

I'm not saying they can't do better; obviously, they can and should strive to do better than they have been. They could also be more open about what's going on. I agree with Will in principle about not talking about stuff too early, but I think there's a happier medium between the vague platitudes we currently get, and the detailed business world project reports some of you seem to think you deserve, where they could share a little more information about what's going on to keep everyone more engaged, without spoiling everything ahead of time. But it's their decision how to handle that, and I know enough about how project management and program development work to remain patient and understanding, despite my personal disappointment that I'm not kicking the Kraken's slimy ass all over Entrath yet. We'll get there.

So you don't think that when they where forming the kickstarter they should have had a coder of your level look things over and have some input? Since it looks like they either randomly guessed or had people with no experience at all look. Since you from the outside can tell all this?

HaemishM
09-19-2014, 09:35 PM
That's why we haven't given out a specific date until we're 100% sure we're going to hit that date. But it's coming. I don't know as to why anyone would believe any different

Because you have a giant money-sucking lawsuit hanging over your head, the client continues to be buggy as an ant hill, there are minor quality of life features that have been promised for months that still aren't implemented, every single feature that's been promised has been delayed with hardly any news about said delay, you shifted open beta ahead of set 2 when the client clearly is not ready for it but good luck finding out about that on your web site or any official outlet.


I'm in the belief that it's worse to start discussing things early before they're ready to be delivered as it artificially extends the time people are in wait for something specific, and it only allows us to speak of things in too early of a stage to give any firm, significant information so it leaves players to speculate and guess.

This isn't even about discussing things too early - that horse left the barn long before I even got in the beta. This is about discussing things AS THEY ARE RIGHT THIS VERY SECOND. And it's terrible. One update on the site a week, which usually tells us nothing and so ends up sounding like blowing smoke. The forums are a mess, full of sycophants and brown nosers who hold unreleased features forward as the Holy Grail. The above-mentioned switch of Open Beta and Set 2 dates? I had to hear about that on a different site altogether and when I came here to find confirmation, there was exactly zero about it from official channels.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for being a small dev house, but you are taking people's money. You can call it beta if you want, but when you take people's money, you do have an obligation to provide some modicum of service - and MMOG's are first and foremost a service. Do you think the cries for information will lessen when the unwashed seething masses of stupid come knocking on your door? The vocal forum minority will be nothing compared to the silent majority that will see the terrible level of service and communication and just take their money elsewhere.

Derringer
09-19-2014, 09:38 PM
"this can't be blocked."
Can we get some consistent formatting please?

drui
09-19-2014, 09:43 PM
OK, im pissed. Do you know how you develop a kickstarter game? You screw polish and give people content bit by bit. I can't care less about the UI, I want to play the promised game. I do not care about nicer animated panoramatic lands - nonanimated stuff would be OK.
I know there is ton of work on the PvE, but we can't see it. We see conventions, posters, T-shirts and reworking what was already in alfa over and over.
This non-content updates are just pissing people off. Just come out with concrete info about the PvE, show us prototype stuff, anything. Kickstarter people deserve it...

asdf2000
09-19-2014, 09:44 PM
Well I do feel for their team if they are working their asses off and when they come here they see pessimism, downers, and no appreciation. So I hope they understand they are appreciated - that is if they are actually working their asses off.

Lockon
09-19-2014, 09:55 PM
At the time they were ramping up the Kickstarter, they were just getting the game back from Gas Powered Games. They didn't have very many actual coders / engineers at the time (that's part of what the funds from the KS were for), since GPG was supposed to be doing the actual video game development piece. It's no secret that CZE VASTLY underestimated how difficult it would be to complete the game in-house with a new team, inexperienced with each other and the specific codebase. It's also pretty clear that GPG grossly misrepresented how much work / the quality of work they had done prior to blowing up.

CZE doesn't talk about this kind of stuff, because it's simply not done in the business world. You don't tell tales, you don't throw other companies (even struggling ones) under the bus, because it gives you a bad name and makes other companies and engineers wary of working with you. So you're never going to get "the full story" from them, that information just isn't ever going to be put out there for the perusal of casual rubberneckers. Their only choices were to either give up and kill the project, or pick up the pieces and do the work themselves. Based on what we've seen over the course of the alpha and how much of the backend data files have changed, my personal opinion (15 years as a programmer and designer, FWIW) is that the engine they got from GPG was a mish-mashed, incomplete pile of shit, that they probably had to rewrite or repurpose 75%+ of. Taking over someone else's code is NEVER easy work or a fun time. Even less so if it's bad code. Even less less less so if that bad code isn't properly documented and annotated.

I know all of these delays look bad to outsiders and people who don't have experience with early stage code development. I get it. Try to keep in mind that CZE made the (frankly, insane) decision to let us all in SUPER early, as one of the rewards for pledging. At the time, it probably seemed like a neat idea, since they figured it would only takes them a couple of months to clean up the code GPG handed over and push to a soft open beta. It just didn't work out that way. There's a reason most game companies don't let consumers anywhere NEAR their product until it's basically done. Early Access is a very new thing, and you'll notice there are no AAA studios jumping on that band wagon. The sausage factory is a brutal, ugly place that not many people can stand the site of.

I'm not saying they can't do better; obviously, they can and should strive to do better than they have been. They could also be more open about what's going on. I agree with Will in principle about not talking about stuff too early, but I think there's a happier medium between the vague platitudes we currently get, and the detailed business world project reports some of you seem to think you deserve, where they could share a little more information about what's going on to keep everyone more engaged, without spoiling everything ahead of time. But it's their decision how to handle that, and I know enough about how project management and program development work to remain patient and understanding, despite my personal disappointment that I'm not kicking the Kraken's slimy ass all over Entrath yet. We'll get there.

This needs to be more commonly known. I didn't and this? This makes it all a little more clear now, as it makes sense WHY things have gone so wrong and the dissonance between the KS and actual development.

I still think they should show us some prototypes a little more often, if only to prove that they're working on SOMETHING, rather than just vague assurances that is the case, show us the table for a bit, you know, unfinished or not, warts and everything. Don't need to show all the bugs or all the good bits, but just seeing SOMETHING that's being worked on should help alleviate fears as to whether you're actually doing something or not.

Of course, I also don't think Crypt is comfortable with that idea, as board and card game development is, obviously, a very different beast then video game dev work, both in the actual work and the audience. How many board game alpha's and beta's do you see in the public eye, eh?

schild
09-19-2014, 09:56 PM
Well I do feel for their team if they are working their asses off and when they come here they see pessimism, downers, and no appreciation. So I hope they understand they are appreciated - that is if they are actually working their asses off.

Some of the most negative people here not only have a lot of money invested into this game being a success, but desperately want a competitive CCG to become an eSport.

We're not asking for failure. Hell, that's not even on the list of things we would want. We're asking for professionalism and consistent messaging.

Edit: As far as the rant Ossuary just went on. That sort of logic and to be frank, consumer fairness, went out the door the exact moment they let us spend money in the client/game.

Ingmar
09-19-2014, 09:57 PM
The most important thing you guys need to convince us of is that you can stick to a regular schedule of set releases. Your competitor has shown that you can be successful with the Worst Client Ever Made if you can keep the game fresh. Right now I'm worried about my investment, and this is really the first time in the process that I've felt that way. We need set 2 badly and you absolutely can *not* miss the date on set 3 if you want to have a prayer of consumer confidence going forward.

Rendakor
09-19-2014, 10:17 PM
What Ingmar said. Set 2 is the last set that can ever really be delayed; if Set 3 slips then we'll just assume that there will be no set schedule and content will trickle out randomly, if at all.

None of the UI stuff matters to people playing NOW, and it's us who are already invested. I haven't logged in for real in more than a month; the best news about the game in the last few weeks was the non-expiring Pro Player draft tickets because it meant I didn't have to log in to grab my rares. Let that sink in:

The best news I've heard about Hex recently has been that I didn't have to play it.

Delaying Set 2 until after the (inevitably buggy) UI update and the Open Beta server crashes means that we're unlikely to see new cards this year. By the time it comes out, I'm not sure many of us are still going to give a damn.

Chrolo
09-20-2014, 12:00 AM
I honestly understand the complain about the lack of information right know. Every tuesday it's a bit frustrating to see that nothing happend to the client. And I tell myself everytime "You have to be patient, they know what they do." And I still believe this.

I really love the game as it is right now. The community is amazing, all the streamers, websites, podcasts - that's what holds the game alive for me. I love set 1, because it's a fantastic set of cards and after about 100 drafts and a lot of constructed I'm not bored of it at all. I enjoy HEX as it is right know.

And still, we had no real patch for over a month now. And that's not the frustrating part - the lack of a solid and open communication is the problem in my eyes. The updates don't tell much and we know so less about PVE, we don't even know how we can interact with the world of Entrath (this spinning backgrounds??). How do quests look like, how... I stop here.

Please work on the communication in the future - you can never overestimate how important this is! The weekly updates feel underwhelming to me (and obviously some other people) at the moment.

I will be patient, because I know, that the whole team is doing their best for the game and I believe that we are at the beginning of something special.

Odai
09-20-2014, 01:51 AM
Shaqattaq, I hope you're still reading this. Things are kind of at a crossroads right now. Very clearly there were some poor estimations made about the development schedule and scope of the patches that are happening in tandem. Between set 2, UI overhaul, Unity Updates, etc. - well, fans are sitting in a black hole of suck waffling back and forth between "is something coming?" and "no, nothing is coming."

If things spiraled out of control, say so. That's not a bad thing. It happens in development all the time. As far as MMOGs go, you're a pretty junior dev house, and admitting that "shit happens" invokes a lot more good will than one would think. If things were poorly estimated, that's cool too, ya know? It happens everywhere. The problem right now is every update and comment is basically "STAY THE COURSE."

That doesn't help. It only hurts. We're left guessing. There's literally nothing worse than a fanbase that has no clue what's going on.

at least you get allways news about stuff to spend more money on...

spankydonkey
09-20-2014, 03:16 AM
Look guys, I believe I speak for almost all here, we all love the game & really want it to grow & be great.

That's the reason for all the bitching, If we didn't care about the game, then know one would bother writing etc.

The fans, The Rock league, & the great guys on twitch are doing more to keep the game ticking along at the moment than you are.

For the love of god, throw us a bone here!

Gwaer
09-20-2014, 04:36 AM
'We bitch because we care' lol. I've seen them throw bones, and I've seen these same people bitch about the size shape or general countenance of said bones. People will always be bitching, because some people are very sad, and need an outlet for that. We'll get things when we get things, enjoy what we have, or don't, and come back later, or don't and keep bitching. It's whatever, but don't believe for a second that anyone that matters at HexEnt believes that people who are consistently negative, and constantly upset about everything are doing it for any non selfish reason. It's a joke that everyone gets but you guys.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 05:04 AM
I have to agree with Gwaer here - I mean all this petty whining is pretty pathetic.

The shirts - people have been begging for some Hex merchandise. They did one round of shirts, last year, and nothing until Gencon - for some people, thats a big deal, especially new players who will have missed everything.

The patch - we have known, more or less, what the patch would include, since Gencon. I think the assumption can be made that Set 2 wont be in, because it wasn't complete at Gencon (unless of course thats what they are waiting for, but somehow I doubt that.) And they have confirmed that the next big patch has UI and VIP buy-ins.

As for Shoggoth and the Rock League - lots of people read the official site. Lots of people do not track the forums or social media.

So yeah, this update didn't have much meat, or anything shiny, for those of us who spend far too long on the forums. But that doesn't mean the communication is bad, it just means that the forum goers are the ones who end up knowing the most. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

So, instead of complaining about things we cannot change, look forward to open beta - based on the information we have been getting lately, I estimate that open beta will land by the end of October. (Now, I am sure all the naysayers will rip me apart for making any kind of estimate.)

Velorath
09-20-2014, 05:34 AM
'We bitch because we care' lol. I've seen them throw bones, and I've seen these same people bitch about the size shape or general countenance of said bones. People will always be bitching, because some people are very sad, and need an outlet for that. We'll get things when we get things, enjoy what we have, or don't, and come back later, or don't and keep bitching. It's whatever, but don't believe for a second that anyone that matters at HexEnt believes that people who are consistently negative, and constantly upset about everything are doing it for any non selfish reason. It's a joke that everyone gets but you guys.


It says a lot about you that you think that concerned customers who have put a lot of money into this game and have every reason to want it to succeed are a joke. I'm fairly sure that the folks at HexEnt would prefer you not ascribe that attitude to them. Hopefully one of the benefits of there now being a community manager here is that we don't have to rely entirely on mods who have been reluctant to crack down on posts like yours which blatantly insult people for being critical.

And generally people have been upset because we aren't being thrown bones. We're being shown glimpses of bones with promises that at some undetermined point in the future we'll get said bones. I'd love to be able to come in here and tell the dev team that the latest patch is awesome, but the last major feature that got added was the AH a few months ago. Instead my experience playing tonight was almost losing a draft because "we done busted Eternal Guardian so it makes your opponent invincible" wasn't in any patch notes I'd read (upon further research it's been broken for almost a month now).

I don't think anybody here is expecting a list of exact dates of when everything is coming, especially since every date we've ever been given has been wildly inaccurate. Status updates of what they're working on, how far along it is, what issues they're having, etc..., would be nice though. For instance, I'd like to know to what extent they're prioritizing trading. You know, so we can give new players stacks of common and uncommon cards that we're never going to be able to get rid of otherwise so they can actually make decks and maybe stay interested in the game when they're done playing around with the Starters. Is it part of the new UI? Is it coming before open beta starts or before Set 2? Are there technical problems holding it up or is it just not a big priority for them right now?

There are plenty of things they can discuss right now that are more substantial than trying to sell me merchandise or telling us about how much time and resources they spent chasing new customers at Gamescom and Gen Con during the same month they were supposed to release Set 2.

Gwaer
09-20-2014, 05:53 AM
You've got a long way to go to show that the people who are constantly trolling the forums are concerned customers at all. There's a pretty large culture of people that go onto forums to cause problems that have absolutely no stake in whatever those forums are about. Anyone who is actually concerned with this games success will not be constantly negative, and will have something constructive to say when they are negative. There are a number of occasions that I didn't agree with things that were done, and i made threads with alternatives and suggestions. Ways to actually improve the game. That's what a concerned stakeholder does. Constantly berating hex about choices they admit the understand. No, that's just being negative for no reason other than your own entertainment.

deathandtexas
09-20-2014, 06:08 AM
at least you get allways news about stuff to spend more money on...

qft

deathandtexas
09-20-2014, 06:09 AM
I have to agree with Gwaer here - I mean all this petty whining is pretty pathetic.

The shirts - people have been begging for some Hex merchandise. They did one round of shirts, last year, and nothing until Gencon - for some people, thats a big deal, especially new players who will have missed everything.

The patch - we have known, more or less, what the patch would include, since Gencon. I think the assumption can be made that Set 2 wont be in, because it wasn't complete at Gencon (unless of course thats what they are waiting for, but somehow I doubt that.) And they have confirmed that the next big patch has UI and VIP buy-ins.

As for Shoggoth and the Rock League - lots of people read the official site. Lots of people do not track the forums or social media.

So yeah, this update didn't have much meat, or anything shiny, for those of us who spend far too long on the forums. But that doesn't mean the communication is bad, it just means that the forum goers are the ones who end up knowing the most. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

So, instead of complaining about things we cannot change, look forward to open beta - based on the information we have been getting lately, I estimate that open beta will land by the end of October. (Now, I am sure all the naysayers will rip me apart for making any kind of estimate.)

Xenavire agrees with Gwaer. What a surprise. I wonder if ossuary also agrees!

Thrawn
09-20-2014, 06:55 AM
'We bitch because we care' lol. I've seen them throw bones, and I've seen these same people bitch about the size shape or general countenance of said bones. People will always be bitching, because some people are very sad, and need an outlet for that. It's whatever, but don't believe for a second that anyone that matters at HexEnt believes that people who are consistently negative, and constantly upset about everything are doing it for any non selfish reason. It's a joke that everyone gets but you guys.

Once again, as expected, someone who trumpets about being positive immediately starts making negative, personal attacks against other players.

malloc31
09-20-2014, 07:03 AM
I have to agree with Gwaer here - I mean all this petty whining is pretty pathetic.

The shirts - people have been begging for some Hex merchandise. They did one round of shirts, last year, and nothing until Gencon - for some people, thats a big deal, especially new players who will have missed everything.

The patch - we have known, more or less, what the patch would include, since Gencon. I think the assumption can be made that Set 2 wont be in, because it wasn't complete at Gencon (unless of course thats what they are waiting for, but somehow I doubt that.) And they have confirmed that the next big patch has UI and VIP buy-ins.

As for Shoggoth and the Rock League - lots of people read the official site. Lots of people do not track the forums or social media.

So yeah, this update didn't have much meat, or anything shiny, for those of us who spend far too long on the forums. But that doesn't mean the communication is bad, it just means that the forum goers are the ones who end up knowing the most. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

So, instead of complaining about things we cannot change, look forward to open beta - based on the information we have been getting lately, I estimate that open beta will land by the end of October. (Now, I am sure all the naysayers will rip me apart for making any kind of estimate.)

How did you go from, and I quote
"The thing is, Kroan, we don't even have any announcement to tell us if the UI has been delayed or not. It could very well land tomorrow, or be delayed for a month - the lack of communication is incredibly frustrating when all we want to know is how much progress is happening."
(about a month ago, 8/26/14)
to what you are saying know?? they have made no progress, we still have no idea when the new UI is coming, every thing is just still "Soon", there has been no content, no bug fixes, nothing. What is with the complete reversal of position?

ryuukan
09-20-2014, 07:24 AM
How did you go from, and I quote
"The thing is, Kroan, we don't even have any announcement to tell us if the UI has been delayed or not. It could very well land tomorrow, or be delayed for a month - the lack of communication is incredibly frustrating when all we want to know is how much progress is happening."
(about a month ago, 8/26/14)
to what you are saying know?? they have made no progress, we still have no idea when the new UI is coming, every thing is just still "Soon", there has been no content, no bug fixes, nothing. What is with the complete reversal of position?

It's because last week's update on the Arena put the 'pve' back in 'peeved'

deathandtexas
09-20-2014, 07:25 AM
How did you go from, and I quote
"The thing is, Kroan, we don't even have any announcement to tell us if the UI has been delayed or not. It could very well land tomorrow, or be delayed for a month - the lack of communication is incredibly frustrating when all we want to know is how much progress is happening."
(about a month ago, 8/26/14)
to what you are saying know?? they have made no progress, we still have no idea when the new UI is coming, every thing is just still "Soon", there has been no content, no bug fixes, nothing. What is with the complete reversal of position?

Because his only position is "defend Hex, no matter what happens, no matter how illogical it is" - and hoping that no one dredges up old posts. Personally, I'm just curious to see how many guilds he will be guildmaster of before guild functionality is actually implemented in the game. ;)

Rendakor
09-20-2014, 07:37 AM
How did you go from, and I quote
"The thing is, Kroan, we don't even have any announcement to tell us if the UI has been delayed or not. It could very well land tomorrow, or be delayed for a month - the lack of communication is incredibly frustrating when all we want to know is how much progress is happening."
(about a month ago, 8/26/14)
to what you are saying know?? they have made no progress, we still have no idea when the new UI is coming, every thing is just still "Soon", there has been no content, no bug fixes, nothing. What is with the complete reversal of position?
He wants colin's Exalted status so he's calmed down with the negativity.

Lafoote
09-20-2014, 07:48 AM
I have to say I'm largely underwhelmed by his week's update. Still, there is little question I'll be picking up a shirt next week. I will not go so far as to say CZE is doing an amazing job with communication, but of the few games I have crowd funded, they do have the most plentiful "updates." I was very pleased last week, this week's was fairly empty. Hopefully next week will be more exciting.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 08:34 AM
Xenavire agrees with Gwaer. What a surprise. I wonder if ossuary also agrees!

So, instead of poking holes in the things I have said, you make the argument 'X agrees with Y, he must be wrong'. Or am I misunderstanding something here?



How did you go from, and I quote
"The thing is, Kroan, we don't even have any announcement to tell us if the UI has been delayed or not. It could very well land tomorrow, or be delayed for a month - the lack of communication is incredibly frustrating when all we want to know is how much progress is happening."
(about a month ago, 8/26/14)
to what you are saying know?? they have made no progress, we still have no idea when the new UI is coming, every thing is just still "Soon", there has been no content, no bug fixes, nothing. What is with the complete reversal of position?

A week after that post, the new community manager was introduced and started going to work. He hasn't had the easiest introduction, but I can see the effort being put in. Add to that the PvE info, the shirts actually being on sale this Monday, and all the VIP news? I dunno, why don't you tell me why I suddenly have a bit more faith.

Or do you just ignore everything that isn't 'Oh, here is the next set and PvE'?


Because his only position is "defend Hex, no matter what happens, no matter how illogical it is" - and hoping that no one dredges up old posts. Personally, I'm just curious to see how many guilds he will be guildmaster of before guild functionality is actually implemented in the game. ;)

The very post you quoted completely refutes that position. Kindly stop trolling.

As it is, I feel I have good reason to have a little renewed faith, so if you have further complaints, feel free to bring them up so I can shatter them. :)


He wants colin's Exalted status so he's calmed down with the negativity.

I wouldn't be complaining if I became Exalted - I don't think anyone would. But that has nothing to do with my opinions or posting quality. I am still impatient for set 2, but I have a much clearer view of what is coming and when, with the last few weeks updates - so why bitch about it? I see now why things are taking a bit longer (VIP updates, etc) so I no longer feel the urge to complain that I did before I knew all those things.

Frankly though, if you think that changing the quality of my posts, or toning down the negativity would have any impact on me becoming Exalted, you are either insulting Colin's achievement (comparing all he has done to a random no-name on a forum), or you are insulting my intelligence by implying that I would think that it would have any impact.

So, complete failures on all points here guys, who wants to take another whack at me? Or can we just sit quietly and play cards now?

Pezzle
09-20-2014, 08:42 AM
We are your customers. We are the group that wants this game to succeed. There will never be a group of people who want this games success more than your current customers.
And this is where we are.


The best news I've heard about Hex recently has been that I didn't have to play it.


There will never be a better time to engage with your customers. We are not asking for compiler logs, we just want some honest feedback, not a smokescreen. We want more from your own forums than links to social media for scraps. Put it here, talk to us, engage your customer.

I cannot think of another industry where these kinds of delays and lack of information would be tolerated. People can be pretty forgiving when given a reason. Why not try it?

TOOT
09-20-2014, 08:52 AM
Look guys, I believe I speak for almost all here, we all love the game & really want it to grow & be great.

That's the reason for all the bitching, If we didn't care about the game, then know one would bother writing etc.

The fans, The Rock league, & the great guys on twitch are doing more to keep the game ticking along at the moment than you are.

For the love of god, throw us a bone here!


'We bitch because we care' lol. I've seen them throw bones, and I've seen these same people bitch about the size shape or general countenance of said bones. People will always be bitching, because some people are very sad, and need an outlet for that. We'll get things when we get things, enjoy what we have, or don't, and come back later, or don't and keep bitching. It's whatever, but don't believe for a second that anyone that matters at HexEnt believes that people who are consistently negative, and constantly upset about everything are doing it for any non selfish reason. It's a joke that everyone gets but you guys.


Once again, as expected, someone who trumpets about being positive immediately starts making negative, personal attacks against other players.

Thrawn is right. As if the 1st post deserved the 2nd post quoted here as a response. If whytw0kane or someone else wrote that response, those same people would be down his throat for doing so.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 08:58 AM
I cannot think of another industry where these kinds of delays and lack of information would be tolerated. People can be pretty forgiving when given a reason. Why not try it?

While this is true, no other industry is so hard to predict - one faulty line of code could put development back months. One nail in the wrong place doesn't mean you have to rebuild a house - you just pull it out and put it in the right place. (Well, mostly.)

I mean, take the last big patch as an example - Eternal Guardian broke horribly, as did a few other cards. Before the patch, they all worked perfectly. Do you think it was intended? Obviously not. So why did it happen? Because a few minor things, easily overlooked, got caught up in the build, and caused havoc.

I don't see other industries having to put up with stuff like that. You don't just overlook '5 missing pillars' when building a skyscraper. But with coding... Well, I am not the best person to ask, but I learned basic coding and it wasn't as simple as it looks on the polished end, thats for sure.

Pezzle
09-20-2014, 09:03 AM
While this is true, no other industry is so hard to predict - one faulty line of code could put development back months. One nail in the wrong place doesn't mean you have to rebuild a house - you just pull it out and put it in the right place. (Well, mostly.)

I mean, take the last big patch as an example - Eternal Guardian broke horribly, as did a few other cards. Before the patch, they all worked perfectly. Do you think it was intended? Obviously not. So why did it happen? Because a few minor things, easily overlooked, got caught up in the build, and caused havoc.

I don't see other industries having to put up with stuff like that. You don't just overlook '5 missing pillars' when building a skyscraper. But with coding... Well, I am not the best person to ask, but I learned basic coding and it wasn't as simple as it looks on the polished end, thats for sure.

That is not an excuse for the level of communication or lack of engagement, which is my point. 'Games are hard' is not some kind of immunity from any kind of reasonable request.

And it really does not matter how hard it is, this is the job. They get paid to do a job, we are the customer.

deathandtexas
09-20-2014, 09:09 AM
"one faulty line of code could put development back months"

I lol'd.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 09:11 AM
That is not an excuse for the level of communication or lack of engagement, which is my point. 'Games are hard' is not some kind of immunity from any kind of reasonable request.

And it really does not matter how hard it is, this is the job. They get paid to do a job, we are the customer.

I didn't say they get a free pass - I said estimates are a lot harder to make. All in all, what they have to share is limited without making estimates, and making estimates just doesn't work for them.

The communication in other areas can be improved upon, and that is what I expect to happen. But I don't expect estimates unless something is ready to be pushed the next day.



"one faulty line of code could put development back months"

I lol'd.

source: 10 yrs professional software development experience

So, if the engine is faulty, possibly only because of a line or two of code, and you build everything on it, not realising the error - and it breaks everything later... That is just impossible is it? Getting a shoddy engine from another company couldn't cause issues like that, huh? Inexperience with the code and all around inexperience couldn't attribute?

Yeah, its totally impossible for people to miss a few lines of code, isn't it? And you can't predict what the ripple effect is.

I am not by any means saying it is standard or even likely, but it doesn't mean it hasn't happened a few times in the development of Hex - we have seen several accidental reversions of code, obviously caused by the kinds of issues I am talking about. Or don't you actually pay attention?

Grimshaw
09-20-2014, 09:40 AM
(This was all more relevant earlier when I started writing it. Apparently I'm too easily distracted.)


I am still impatient for set 2, but I have a much clearer view of what is coming and when, with the last few weeks updates - so why bitch about it?

Can you share with us what you think is coming and when, because that's likely one of the main reasons that so many irregular posters are posting about this topic each week? A lot of us feel like we're just continually left guessing. Look at malloc:


I don't think any one is asking for the date the patch will be released. But "soon" is as pointless as saying nothing at all, we would like to hear is it going to be weeks? months? years? Will there be any actual content (something new to do in the game?)? and what will that content be?


They set a date for Set 2 back on June 10th. They gave themselves 2 months to hit that date, and they'll be at least 2 months late with it. Is the fact that they haven't committed to something as vague as before the end of the year a cause for concern? The "big UI client patch" contains "more polish in the visual presentation of the game, bug fixes, some new features, and more." New features and more? Why not highlight one of these new features and give us something else to talk about?

The game is great, no doubt, but we've been hearing soon on the UI, Set 2 and the Arena for months now. Customers are always going to want more, but I definitely feel like the number of people voicing their dissatisfaction on the forums is up and tournament queue times are growing longer.

I certainly expect the UI patch and Open Beta before the end of the year, but Set 2 and the Arena? Set 2 feels like it might squeek in November/December, but I doubt Arena has any shot at all.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 09:57 AM
Well, frankly, I haven't got a lot of hope for Set 2 and PvE - not for any particular reason, but because I have given up trying to predict or label those two features. The features we do know are coming however? Showcased at Gencon, have been mentioned in updates... I think we are very likely to see those and open beta very soon based on the recent updates. And I don't think this is one of those intangible 'Soon (TM)' feelings. (But hey, my gut only has a 50/50 track record so far, so its hardly foolproof. :p)

But hey, I am not here giving official information - I just see things a little differently after the recent updates. Set 2 would be great, PvE as well, but I am just going to look forward to the next patch, whatever it brings.


But yeah, I guess the main thing is that I have cooled off and have a little more clarity than I had a month ago - I remembered exactly how huge moving into a new stage of development is. Open beta is huge, and is definitely looming (they have been very clear that its approaching fast and will come before set 2 and PvE) so I think having the current framework solid is a bigger priority than adding new features right now.

Again, I know this will be an unpopular opinion. But it is what it is - I am excited for the new UI, as much as I would be for set 2 or PvE. I guess I am in the minority.

Grimshaw
09-20-2014, 10:06 AM
Oh, I'm really excited for the UI, as well. I don't rate it quite at the same level as Set 2 and PvE for selfish reasons, but it's likely more important for the overall success of the game with Open Beta approaching.

I'm just a bit worried that without the conventions giving us Cirouss' PvE interview and UI and Set 2 spoilers and community organized events like the Charity Stream and the Rock League that we will be left completely in the dark.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 10:16 AM
Oh, I'm really excited for the UI, as well. I don't rate it quite at the same level as Set 2 and PvE for selfish reasons, but it's likely more important for the overall success of the game with Open Beta approaching.

I'm just a bit worried that without the conventions giving us Cirouss' PvE interview and UI and Set 2 spoilers and community organized events like the Charity Stream and the Rock League that we will be left completely in the dark.

Can you explain why this would leave us in the dark, and why it should worry you? I don't understand (could be my fault here, no pointing fingers at you here.) I mean, they did promise a full spoiler or a pre-release for set 2, which could mean they want us in the dark just a little bit. The rest will come when it comes - I think of all the interviews etc as sneak peeks.

As for the UI... We saw it at Gencon. And I think it looks great, but at the same time, it is going to take a lot of getting used to. Things moved around, etc - things that are second nature now are going to trip us up in just a few weeks (well, I hope a few weeks.) So I kind of want the UI for selfish reasons too - I don't want my first set 2 draft to be tripped up by stupid mistakes that I make because I am unfamiliar with the UI. :p

mach
09-20-2014, 10:17 AM
I didn't say they get a free pass - I said estimates are a lot harder to make. All in all, what they have to share is limited without making estimates, and making estimates just doesn't work for them.

The communication in other areas can be improved upon, and that is what I expect to happen. But I don't expect estimates unless something is ready to be pushed the next day.


That's not something which will lead to a successful game. Only giving estimates the day before doesn't give people time to clear their schedules for whatever exciting thing you're adding. You'll get higher turnout for the Set whatever prerelease if you announce it sufficiently far in advance instead of the night before.

Keep in mind that MTGO, which people agree is made by people who are exceptionally bad at making good software, still manages to announce set releases weeks in advance and make the announced dates.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 10:20 AM
That's not something which will lead to a successful game. Only giving estimates the day before doesn't give people time to clear their schedules for whatever exciting thing you're adding. You'll get higher turnout for the Set whatever prerelease if you announce it sufficiently far in advance instead of the night before.

Keep in mind that MTGO, which people agree is made by people who are exceptionally bad at making good software, still manages to announce set releases weeks in advance and make the announced dates.

I didn't say they should release the content the day it is ready - they should give an estimate once it is done. Then they should spend the time in between vetting the content to make sure they didn't miss anything.

And I am not familiar with MTGO, but don't the set launches in MTGO come weeks or months after the paper releases? I mean, its still a lot of coding etc, but they don't have as many people bitching that there isn't any content.

mach
09-20-2014, 10:26 AM
I didn't say they should release the content the day it is ready - they should give an estimate once it is done. Then they should spend the time in between vetting the content to make sure they didn't miss anything.

Sure. I'm just saying that they need to be able to announce a date at least a couple weeks in advance and then meet it. I don't expect them to get it right immediately, but they need to keep trying until they do get it right.



And I am not familiar with MTGO, but don't the set launches in MTGO come weeks or months after the paper releases? I mean, its still a lot of coding etc, but they don't have as many people bitching that there isn't any content.

It's a 2 week difference, which I'm pretty sure is more a marketing choice then needing to wait for the programmers. They don't want the online events competing with the paper ones, so they start them the week after the paper release events.

Thrawn
09-20-2014, 10:29 AM
And I am not familiar with MTGO, but don't the set launches in MTGO come weeks or months after the paper releases? I mean, its still a lot of coding etc, but they don't have as many people bitching that there isn't any content.

People also know these dates and know that's how it works. They've also released five? sets in the time we've been stuck playing one. Set 2 is probably the biggest worry to me. Any dream to make Hex a serious competitive game with any esports type play will be dead in the water if they can't even handle regular set releases.

But like everything else, we don't know anything about that other than it's later than planned and we should seen it Soon™.

Being able to make accurate estimates is an important part of software development. Yes, it is also a very difficult part of the job and dates slip often. But to essentially say "We are so lost that we aren't comfortable sharing even rough estimates at all." doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

spankydonkey
09-20-2014, 10:30 AM
You know what would really help, is if they could see there way clear to showing us all, some PVE play footage, the arena maybe?
Well after all that's what they are working on & is said to be coming soon!
The only thing, I have see of any PVE is some screen shots on Cirouss channel, not a single thing here on the official site.
As I said before, throw us a bone, & the crowd will love you for it.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 10:30 AM
Sure. I'm just saying that they need to be able to announce a date at least a couple weeks in advance and then meet it. I don't expect them to get it right immediately, but they need to keep trying until they do get it right.


Exactly - starting off small is probably the best way, then ramping up as they prove their track record to themselves. They will improve over time obviously, but they would be shooting themselves in the collective foot to go announcing things too soon (set 2 being the most recent example).



It's a 2 week difference, which I'm pretty sure is more a marketing choice then needing to wait for the programmers. They don't want the online events competing with the paper ones, so they start them the week after the paper release events.

Makes sense. Still - not to split hairs, but they have been at it for 10 years, and have (usually) simpler mechanics. It does make me question whether or not 4 sets a year will work - 3 sets should be fine eventually though, and will probably be enough for most Hex players.

Aradon
09-20-2014, 10:34 AM
I have to agree that all this whining and complaining isn't helping anyone. You guys thinking that 'concerned players' are giving valuable information to Hex by saying that you're disappointed is just laughable. Every time Hex says anything, in any way, people log in just to complain that the feature they care about most wasn't released and give the standard litany of failures Hex has as a company in their eyes.

People claim they want any sort of communication, and then when they get the vague updates that things are still progressing, they complain that they want more detailed communication. What everyone really wants is just to hear that X is released, and I don't think anything short of that will placate them. If they hear WHY X isn't released, I have no doubt that they'd complain that the project was mismanaged or that CZE shouldn't have said X or Y earlier. It's just complaints.

Shaqattaq has it right: the game is being developed, and we all know it's being developed, and that they're working as fast as they can on getting it ready, and knowing anything or everything about CZE's inner workings won't get that done any faster. Just chill out and let them work, and we'll get content when it comes out.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 10:36 AM
You know what would really help, is if they could see there way clear to showing us all, some PVE play footage, the arena maybe?
Well after all that's what they are working on & is said to be coming soon!
The only thing, I have see of any PVE is some screen shots on Cirouss channel, not a single thing here on the official site.
As I said before, throw us a bone, & the crowd will love you for it.

I keep seeing this, but... PvE footage would literally just be them against PvE decks, right? A few transition screens, then face to face with the AI, with a different champion on the opponents side, a few new card spoilers while you are at it...

I think the panoramas we have seen are far more interesting than the prospects of watching someone play versus the AI, personally. :p

The real exciting bits will be when we can actually explore and get hands on - thats what a TCG is all about after all, getting in and building your stuff to fight other stuff. The real exciting stuff will be PvE champions, the dungeon node progression, chests, equipment... And I doubt those things are polished enough to be shown right now. Remember, theres a huge difference between arena and dungeons.

TL; DR - chances are, they could show something, and everyone will just say either A) 'That's it? Why should we care?' or B) 'Show us more, it wasn't enough!'

Lose/lose for the devs, really. :(

Grimshaw
09-20-2014, 10:37 AM
Can you explain why this would leave us in the dark, and why it should worry you? I don't understand (could be my fault here, no pointing fingers at you here.) I mean, they did promise a full spoiler or a pre-release for set 2, which could mean they want us in the dark just a little bit. The rest will come when it comes - I think of all the interviews etc as sneak peeks.

It worries me because I feel like those things were either largely or entirely made public knowledge by the community, rather than the Hex team. Kroan's Rock League and the Unnamed Council's PvE dungeon are entirely their own, as far as I know. I don't feel like we would have seen that PvE slide slow at all had Cirouss not had behind-the-scenes access. The GenCon stuff came from player tweets and videos. The community had to organize the interviews for the Charity stream. Hex has generously given their time to us and allowed us to share these things, but sometimes it feels like we have to push a bit too much to get new information and content out there.

Maybe it's the continual text updates that's starting to weigh me down a bit? Perhaps Phenteo could do a monthly-ish interview with a member of staff when they want to give us a sneak peak of something to mix it up a bit.

Thrawn
09-20-2014, 10:38 AM
I keep seeing this, but... PvE footage would literally just be them against PvE decks, right? A few transition screens, then face to face with the AI, with a different champion on the opponents side, a few new card spoilers while you are at it...

I think the panoramas we have seen are far more interesting than the prospects of watching someone play versus the AI, personally. :p

If the AI is as good as we're being told it will be I would absolutely be happy to see a video of someone playing against a tough, smart, PvE encounter. That would be some huge, tangible progress being shown off.

mach
09-20-2014, 10:41 AM
Exactly - starting off small is probably the best way, then ramping up as they prove their track record to themselves. They will improve over time obviously, but they would be shooting themselves in the collective foot to go announcing things too soon (set 2 being the most recent example).


I'd rather they keep trying. If they're late by 2 months the first time but only 1 month the next time, that's demonstrated progress.



Makes sense. Still - not to split hairs, but they have been at it for 10 years, and have (usually) simpler mechanics. It does make me question whether or not 4 sets a year will work - 3 sets should be fine eventually though, and will probably be enough for most Hex players.

The reason I'm comparing them is that despite how long they've been at it, the overwhelming consensus is that they're really, really bad at it and their product is horrible. If Hex can't even do things as well as a piece of junk like MTGO, they stand no chance in attracting enough players during Open Beta.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 10:46 AM
It worries me because I feel like those things were either largely or entirely made public knowledge by the community, rather than the Hex team. Kroan's Rock League and the Unnamed Council's PvE dungeon are entirely their own, as far as I know. I don't feel like we would have seen that PvE slide slow at all had Cirouss not had behind-the-scenes access. The GenCon stuff came from player tweets and videos. The community had to organize the interviews for the Charity stream. Hex has generously given their time to us and allowed us to share these things, but sometimes it feels like we have to push a bit too much to get new information and content out there.

Maybe it's the continual text updates that's starting to weigh me down a bit? Perhaps Phenteo could do a monthly-ish interview with a member of staff when they want to give us a sneak peak of something to mix it up a bit.

Community interviews and events are great - most communities get complete blackouts when it comes to stuff like that. It would be great to even get more - if I could, I would even set up an interview myself, but sadly, I haven't been able to get in contact with any of the devs to set anything up. :p

I do really like the idea of Phenteo doing a little spotlight every month though - maybe Phenteo can take that idea back for some serious discussion. :D


If the AI is as good as we're being told it will be I would absolutely be happy to see a video of someone playing against a tough, smart, PvE encounter. That would be some huge, tangible progress being shown off.

Well, you have a point there. I don't know if the new AI was in the Gencon build, but if it wasn't, then yeah, seeing a showcase of the AI could be interesting. Maybe we can hear more about the AI in an upcoming update? Would be a good start.

Glae
09-20-2014, 01:28 PM
Do we even know what's coming in the "big patch?" New UI is a save assumption. Are we confirmed for getting trading? New UI? New AI? Set 2? Arena? Double backs? Guild features? New chat? What about fixes that are "fixed" in patch notes like the sound bug or removing people from friend's list? What about fixes to bugged cards that previously worked like Eternal Guardian? What about fixes to things that have never worked properly like -1-1 gem? What about the ability to earn gencon AAs like we were supposed to have during gencon? Is this a big engine update where theyre switching how cards sre coded that will allow for faster bug fixing, or any bug fixing on a regular basis?

Im fine with not having a precise date if its still a bit out, but there is *literally* no information about what the next patch is bringing. Just that its big and requires a fresh download.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 01:51 PM
Quoting for Glae:

Primarily, we’re working towards the big UI client patch. You’ll see a lot more polish in the visual presentation of the game, bug fixes, some new features, and more

Assuming thats the next patch, thats UI, bugfixes, the year VIP, VIP AA, and then potentially some undisclosed features. I think thats all, at least confirmed, if I missed something I apologise.

Oh, and a new patcher I guess.

Yoss
09-20-2014, 02:14 PM
While this is true, no other industry is so hard to predict - one faulty line of code could put development back months.
BS. Have you never worked in technology? Anything state of the art is going to be hard, no matter what industry it's in. And customers are just as demanding.


I didn't say they get a free pass - I said estimates are a lot harder to make. All in all, what they have to share is limited without making estimates, and making estimates just doesn't work for them.

...I don't expect estimates unless something is ready to be pushed the next day.
Thrawn had it right:

Being able to make accurate estimates is an important part of software development.

And not just software. One of the basics of project management is to use a tool like MS Project to list out all your tasks (each one of relatively short duration!) and link them up intelligently to create a logic network of work flow and timing of critical milestones. As the project moves forward, the tasks should be getting status updates every week to see what the "critical path(s)" for the project is (are), and they shift weekly as some tasks slip and others move quickly. Part of the "fun" is managing the constantly shifting road map without losing sight of the end goal. (Usually the project end date is not flexible, at least where I work. Of course, my company is usually under contract to deliver on a certain schedule, whereas Hex has no contract. Hex just has market realities instead of due dates.)

It is totally normal to have to answer the question: "What did you accomplish this week?" Sometimes the answer is boring and unimpressive sounding (even if you worked really hard) and other times it sounds impressive (even if it was easy). That's just the nature of the beast.

I mostly work hardware and embedded software, not "pure" software, but other than long-lead procurement of physical goods, the basic idea really shouldn't be changing.

All that said, those are just things that Hex should know and be doing internally. What they actually share with the outside world is something else entirely. For external communication, I'm used to seeing major milestones listed with vague timelines blocked out visually.

Example of external communication:
http://www.patcopaexpansion.com/schedule.html

Example of internal management:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yhRnpARHoWw/TVtjIvuRzPI/AAAAAAAAAAk/gA1-2P0kB9M/s1600/Project+Schedule.png

In the end, though, Hex should communicate how they think is best for making this venture successful.

Velorath
09-20-2014, 02:40 PM
You've got a long way to go to show that the people who are constantly trolling the forums are concerned customers at all. There's a pretty large culture of people that go onto forums to cause problems that have absolutely no stake in whatever those forums are about. Anyone who is actually concerned with this games success will not be constantly negative, and will have something constructive to say when they are negative. There are a number of occasions that I didn't agree with things that were done, and i made threads with alternatives and suggestions. Ways to actually improve the game. That's what a concerned stakeholder does. Constantly berating hex about choices they admit the understand. No, that's just being negative for no reason other than your own entertainment.


You don't get to determine other peoples' motives for criticizing. I know at least one of the other posters in this thread has multiple GK/Pro tier accounts. I think most of the people here at least have Pro or GK (I have GK myself). Nobody here put out $250+ and then decided they just wanted to troll the forum instead. If you want to add something to the discussion do it rather than just freak out whenever people have complaints.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 02:51 PM
Yoss, thats a very good post, but the bottom line is the most important.

As for coding - I still think it is more complex than a lot of things, but you are right - I was probably overselling it and not considering other types of incredibly complex projects. The difference though, is that Hex is a beginner company when it comes to this, and usually most companies that enter into complex projects have both experience and investors (to breathe down their necks.)

For Hex, we are the only investors, and while we aren't particularly happy lately, we aren't threatening to pull funding or flat out leave, we are just excited for the next big thing (or things) and getting a bit antsy.

Anyway, I have never once said communication is a bad thing, and of course I want more of it, and hopefully we get a lot more soon. I just think there are things that need to be kept quieter (for now, like most deadlines), while other things can be picked up by our new CM. :)

N3rd4Christ
09-20-2014, 02:57 PM
You don't get to determine other peoples' motives for criticizing. I know at least one of the other posters in this thread has multiple GK/Pro tier accounts. I think most of the people here at least have Pro or GK (I have GK myself). Nobody here put out $250+ and then decided they just wanted to troll the forum instead. If you want to add something to the discussion do it rather than just freak out whenever people have complaints.

I like to troll.... I didn't back KS... I have invested at least 400 since I started playing (closed beta). Because I troll doesn't mean I'm not a concerned customer.

So there your statement is false!

DISCLAIMER: I may be trolling you at this very moment with this very here post.

mach
09-20-2014, 03:09 PM
As for coding - I still think it is more complex than a lot of things, but you are right - I was probably overselling it and not considering other types of incredibly complex projects. The difference though, is that Hex is a beginner company when it comes to this, and usually most companies that enter into complex projects have both experience and investors (to breathe down their necks.)


But beginner companies very frequently fail when they attempt ambitious projects. What this means is that Hex's success may hinge on how quickly it can stop acting like a beginner company.

Xenavire
09-20-2014, 03:20 PM
But beginner companies very frequently fail when they attempt ambitious projects. What this means is that Hex's success may hinge on how quickly it can stop acting like a beginner company.

Valid point. However - if they are putting out a quality product, but slowly, will they fail? Thats not something I think is likely to happen. Obviously, if they are too slow, then yeah, they will eventually crumble, but I don't see the current speed as anything more than growing pains.

Time will tell on that particular front - hopefully they will pick it up sooner than later, but we can't count on it being a quick process.

mach
09-20-2014, 03:28 PM
Valid point. However - if they are putting out a quality product, but slowly, will they fail?

Quite possibly, yes. Remember that their model (by Cory's own statements) is based on releasing an entire new set every few months. And that's on top of the normal periodic improvements gamers expect (new features, bug fixes, etc). And PvE, which will also need periodic new content.

If they wait too long in-between sets people will start to get bored and play less. And the continual influx of new cards from Limited events will drive prices down, causing collections to lose value. So if they slow down their model will start to fall apart and the game will enter death spiral mode.

Tmon
09-20-2014, 03:33 PM
Regarding communication. If there was a thread like the one I linked below for Hex I'd be thrilled. There aren't any set dates for most of it, but I can look at it and see their current priority and how each milestone relates to the start of open beta. It isn't even updated all that often but there is still enough info in it to give a people a sense of where things are and where the game is headed. Most of this info is already out there for Hex, it's just buried in twitter, facebook or random discussion replies. Put it in one place, update it as necessary, be honest when dates and priorities change and I believe you will make a lot of your players a little bit happier.

https://forums.station.sony.com/landmark/index.php?threads/the-new-improved-blueprint-updated-8-27-14.34413/

Glae
09-20-2014, 04:19 PM
Quoting for Glae:


Assuming thats the next patch, thats UI, bugfixes, the year VIP, VIP AA, and then potentially some undisclosed features. I think thats all, at least confirmed, if I missed something I apologise.

Oh, and a new patcher I guess.

Just reread. I guess they did confirm UI, patcher, "bug fixes" and "features." I stand corrected. I'd still like to know what bug fixes are being resolved and what mystery features are included.

Lockon
09-20-2014, 05:26 PM
I'm starting to hope, just a little, that one of these "features" is Skynet. If nothing else, it would explain the secrecy a little bit.

HaemishM
09-20-2014, 08:42 PM
I mean, take the last big patch as an example - Eternal Guardian broke horribly, as did a few other cards. Before the patch, they all worked perfectly. Do you think it was intended? Obviously not. So why did it happen? Because a few minor things, easily overlooked, got caught up in the build, and caused havoc.

And this is a perfect example of the problem. Eternal Guardian has been broken for what... almost a month now? I haven't seen one post in the forums announcing it, nothing in the game client, nothing ANYWHERE from an official voice that says "Hey, this card is broken, so don't use it." I didn't find out it was broken until I was in a game and had dropped one on the table. Three turns later, after I've attacked my opponent and done NO DAMAGE, I figure out that yes it's broken and I go search out confirmation from other players that, yes, it's indeed been broken.

I know that software is twitchy, and can get broken with one missing comma or lower case letter. I get that. What I don't get is why things like the Eternal Guardian bug aren't being loudly trumpeted to the players, many of whom are paying money to play (for the tourneys) or have paid money to play (the KS backers). Once a company starts taking money, they have an obligation to their customers whether they call it beta or not. If money changes hands, communication is very necessary. Considering they have 1) a web site, 2) the forums on said web site and 3) the game client itself as outlets for the kind of very important communication like the Eternal Guardian bug and none of them are being used at all, that's just not acceptable.

Lockon
09-20-2014, 09:15 PM
Now THAT I agree with. Even if they can't fix it immediately, actually ESPECIALLY if they can't, bugs need to be in a prominent place for the community, so that people are aware of them and don't make poor decisions due to their ignorance of said bugs. Now, the vet players and mods are usually pretty good about answering questions, heck, I do it and I've only been in the beta for less than a month, but these are things people need to be aware of when starting up a session. Now, hopefully, REALLY hopefully, the new launcher will address this by having actual in-launcher patch notes, rather than a link tucked in the corner that doesn't actually work. That's the kind of info we need to have, about the game in it's CURRENT state, not even taking into account development of new ones. I need to know what cards are horrifically bugged so I can make informed decisions about said cards.(By the by, I'm thinking buying up the bugged cards NOW while they're cheap because of the bugs is a smart idea, as they aren't BAD, just not working right. Believe me, the price will go up once they're fixed.)

Yoss
09-20-2014, 09:56 PM
Regarding communication. If there was a thread like the one I linked below for Hex I'd be thrilled. There aren't any set dates for most of it, but I can look at it and see their current priority and how each milestone relates to the start of open beta. It isn't even updated all that often but there is still enough info in it to give a people a sense of where things are and where the game is headed. Most of this info is already out there for Hex, it's just buried in twitter, facebook or random discussion replies. Put it in one place, update it as necessary, be honest when dates and priorities change and I believe you will make a lot of your players a little bit happier.

https://forums.station.sony.com/landmark/index.php?threads/the-new-improved-blueprint-updated-8-27-14.34413/

That thread, with Hex instead of whatever game that is, would indeed be amazing. Note that Sony isn't exactly a small company though...

Xenavire
09-21-2014, 04:43 AM
And this is a perfect example of the problem. Eternal Guardian has been broken for what... almost a month now? I haven't seen one post in the forums announcing it, nothing in the game client, nothing ANYWHERE from an official voice that says "Hey, this card is broken, so don't use it." I didn't find out it was broken until I was in a game and had dropped one on the table. Three turns later, after I've attacked my opponent and done NO DAMAGE, I figure out that yes it's broken and I go search out confirmation from other players that, yes, it's indeed been broken.

I know that software is twitchy, and can get broken with one missing comma or lower case letter. I get that. What I don't get is why things like the Eternal Guardian bug aren't being loudly trumpeted to the players, many of whom are paying money to play (for the tourneys) or have paid money to play (the KS backers). Once a company starts taking money, they have an obligation to their customers whether they call it beta or not. If money changes hands, communication is very necessary. Considering they have 1) a web site, 2) the forums on said web site and 3) the game client itself as outlets for the kind of very important communication like the Eternal Guardian bug and none of them are being used at all, that's just not acceptable.

This one is bang on the money. If they don't do it soon, I will just start making a list of bugs and host it on The Lions Share News and link to it constantly so people know what is bugged each patch. (Thanks for giving me the idea, now lets hope I don't have to use it. :p)

Glae
09-21-2014, 08:15 AM
Exactly. What's so frustrating about this is that they were literally already doing this in Alpha. When they changed the forum to Beta they just decided to stop doing it for some reason.

So instead of a central lists of known bugs, with what's being worked on and what is being fixed in the next patch, its just a thousand scattered posts a cross the bug testing forum. With absolutely no feedback or official updates.

I'm really hoping this "big update" means we'll be getting cards stored in a database rather than individually hardcoded effects. There's simply no excuse for a card mysteriously reverting to a non working form, nor is there an excuse for a card that was working to be broken for a month. But we still have set 1 content that has *never* worked (Mystic Spiritwalker, Relentless Corruption, -1-1 gem) and the closer we get to Set 2 the more troubling that is. They absolutely must get a system for faster turnaround on bugs. And bugs that get squashed must stay squashed.

Xenavire
09-21-2014, 08:39 AM
Exactly. What's so frustrating about this is that they were literally already doing this in Alpha. When they changed the forum to Beta they just decided to stop doing it for some reason.


I believe thats about the time the lawsuit was formally announced - I would say the timing matches up perfectly, and that we have our answer.

But unless there is a damn good reason for the radio silence to continue to be so extreme, then I expect things to change with the introduction of the community manager. :p

funktion
09-21-2014, 05:40 PM
This game's community is one of the strongest things going for it. Many of us had been evangelizing the game pretty actively and many still are. I know the lack of information / updates / and general stagnation has caused some of the die-hards to stay positive about the game's state. I'd probably be considered a fanboy by most accounts, and I've definitely been feeling it myself.

Seeing Neo, Mythic & Alucard get their partnership with Twitch was a pretty big deal. I know it has reinvigorated a lot of folks (at the very least myself & Mokog) to get back into the swing of things.

TCG players consume content VERY fast, even more so when it is digital. A digital draft format can become stale much faster just because people are churning through drafts at all hours of the day. Hopefully now that we've got Phenteo around we'll be seeing some more interaction with the community at large. Getting official streams going where the team is playing with the fans or showing off upcoming features would be great.

I think Ossuary's post near the start of the thread was a pretty good read.
Long story short, I'd like to see the hype train restored. There are multiple angles that it needs to be repaired from.

ossuary
09-21-2014, 06:16 PM
I think Ossuary's post near the start of the thread was a pretty good read.
Long story short, I'd like to see the hype train restored. There are multiple angles that it needs to be repaired from.

Thanks. :)

And I agree on both counts. I preach the good word of Hex every chance I get, but I have also been very vocal about my concerns on the communication front. Phenteo is doing pretty well so far, but he's still new and there's also a lot of bad feelings that have accumulated over the last several months. On the whole, I think it is more beneficial to both new players coming in and the community as a whole if we try to remain positive, talk up the good points, and keep on keeping on. I have no issue whatsoever with constructive criticism (as I said, I engage in it myself where I feel it's appropriate), it's the constant, useless negativity with no content to it that I find unhelpful and disappointing.

RCDv57
09-21-2014, 06:50 PM
I've lost hope in this project.
Not enough time was given to the Alpha.
Even if they do give us dates I would not believe them.
Every week I anxiously wait for the friday update, just to get a set 2 spoiler.
Set 2 is going to come out both way too late and way too early.
I have not opened up Hex in over 3 months.

Cory Jones, I love you man, but I can't take much more of this abuse.
(EDIT: I'm still totally buying a shirt and poster I'm just running out of steam)

chromus
09-21-2014, 10:45 PM
Here's a simple overview of the game since the beta launch on the 26th of April. I am an optimist at heart so let's start out with the positives:

- On June 25th, the one and only big feature they have have added to the game, the Auction House, is released. Although very basic, it is working well without any major bugs.
- The 128-man tourneys are in the game and working. So the monthly VIP tourneys are on a schedule, starting September 26th.

Now the negatives:

- Many Set 1 cards are still bugged even though Alpha was launched nearly a year ago (October 9th 2013), and all Set 1 cards have been in the game since March 29th 2014.
- Open Beta, originally advertised as to be released 'several weeks' after Closed Beta release, has been delayed several times. Also, 2 important features which it was supposed to include - Guilds and Double-Backs - have been scratched off its feature list and further delayed.
- Set 2, originally advertised as to be released in August, is nowhere near. New UI, in-game mail trading, and Open Beta are all scheduled to be patched before it.
- There has been no sign of PvE, which is supposed to be compromised of 40-something dungeons at the full launch, except for an unofficial 'The Kraken' slideshow and a recent small 'Arena' video clip about environment only.
- There is currently no way to trade between 2 players: In-game mail trading and p2p trading are not implemented, with no ETA.
- List of HUGE missing features that are supposed to be in game come launch: Dungeons, Double-Backs, Guilds, Mercenaries, Equipment, Raids, Keeps, Crafting.

Looking at the above, it's hard not to be frustrated and disappointed. It's hard not to lash out and complain. Although the game is clearly progressing, it's happening at a slower-than-promised rate. All dates have been missed, all features have not only taken much longer to implement but have also brought about more bugs that have broken working elements. CZE has realized all this and has stopped giving dates (smart). But they have also stopped giving updates on the progress of the game and its numerous parts (not smart). Here is an example of a good update whose format can be applied to all future updates: http://hextcg.com/friday-update-the-near-future/. Having different departments inform us about their progress, no matter how small, is a great way to keep the community informed and engaged.

We are all adults here. We can see that all things Hex move slowly ever since the pre-Alpha days. As long as CZE and its updates are transparent & informative, we can manage our expectations accordingly. Those who follow these updates closely and/or spend time to discuss the game on these forums are the greatest supporters of Hex. They are the excited ones who will get their friends into Hex, who will produce their own content about Hex, who will stick with Hex through the tough times, who will defend and promote Hex all over the internet. Keep those people excited... keep them hooked... keep us informed. :)

Xenavire
09-22-2014, 02:36 AM
Chromus - you forgot that the tutorial, starter trials, and gencon rewards have all been added since the start of beta. I mean, if we are going to make a list, lets not omit a lot of progress.

Thrawn
09-22-2014, 06:16 AM
If "Gencon Rewards Added" is being used as an example of meaningful progress in development we may be even worse off than I thought.

chromus
09-22-2014, 06:34 AM
Yea, I didn't include those because they are not milestones in my book. I also didn't include less significant negatives, such as Big Tournament(128+) testing/implementation fail, still not having a rule-book nor a list of current bugged cards so we can play draft/sealed accordingly, etc.

Pezzle
09-22-2014, 08:49 AM
If you are going to be picky, GenCon rewards should have been enabled before the con. Not sure that is progress.

Xenavire
09-22-2014, 09:40 AM
If you are going to be picky, GenCon rewards should have been enabled before the con. Not sure that is progress.

Err, what? Gencon 2013 happened before the alpha was released, so that part is impossible, and they aimed for the 2014 rewards to be in before the con - it was what, a week late? Hardly a major issue there.

But if Gencon rewards are too minor, I can understand that. But the tutorial and starter trials are huge milestones (new player introductions) and were part of the content preventing us moving into open beta.

Zophie
09-22-2014, 10:26 AM
Just checked and it looks like the shirts are available for purchase today. They look good, but I wish there was a 3X available, some guys are just built bigger ya know?

Pezzle
09-22-2014, 10:32 AM
Was talking about 2014. And it is a big deal. It points to a failure in execution. Why on earth would you give away promo material that does not work? The sleeves themselves are not the issue, and they are in game. It happened and we can move on.

Not going to get into the rest of what people consider a major milestones as opinions vary widely and the subject has been covered elsewhere.

funktion
09-22-2014, 10:47 AM
Chromus summed things up really well I'd say. Sure there might be things missing but I would say he has got the right idea. What we could use is a "hey things are way better than people might realize" sort of pep talk or something along those lines.

As someone who has been lucky enough to become more familiar with the game/team than your average user, I wonder if it would be better for everyone if we got a few breadcrumbs. I almost get a feeling (or given the state of things I really hope this is the case) that they are holding back on us and want to give us a whole ton of stuff at once. That mentality seems like a mistake, one of the greatest things so far is that this isn't being run like a massive aaa title from one of the industries monolithic publishers. Now is probably not the right time for a big splashy launch or update, let us back into the sausage factory!!!

On a somewhat related note, addressing the most recent set of updates... People don't really mind being told to wait or be patient, it does bother them to be kept waiting without any clue how much longer it might be or what they are waiting for. I'm not suggesting that we start getting hard concrete dates, clearly nobody benefits from that. What I am seeing though are a huge amount of missed opportunities. Think for a second of all the cool things being worked on, let's here more about the new version of Unity and the cool things that it will enable (foils?), how about the new ui elements? Are there any tweaks to the ah being discussed? There really is a lot of material to use for these updates so it is a real bummer when they feel lacking.

I get that some of this information is still available to those of us using (and pouring over) the forums, but making it more readily available to everyone would go a real long way.

Hope that this is read, sorry for any formatting issues it was written from my phone while getting coffee.

GatticusFinch
09-22-2014, 01:19 PM
I paid $250 to Kickstart Hex and all I got was this lousy t-shirt update.

Hatts
09-22-2014, 01:28 PM
I feel like they missed an opportunity for another Xzibit meme
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/54575186.jpg

Kami
09-22-2014, 01:39 PM
T-shirts aren't available for shipping to Canada... I really hope posters don't end up the same way.

asdf2000
09-22-2014, 01:40 PM
as someone else posted, it's possible lack of information is related to their legal battle

lightreaper
09-22-2014, 03:00 PM
T-shirts aren't available for shipping to Canada... I really hope posters don't end up the same way.They don't ship to the UK either - this really sucks as I was really hoping to support the Cryptozoic guys and get dat swag :(

bootlace
09-22-2014, 03:28 PM
Interesting legal changes to Kickstarter projects:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/as-kickstarter-failures-continue-new-legal-terms-a/1100-6422484/

schild
09-22-2014, 08:05 PM
as someone else posted, it's possible lack of information is related to their legal battle

I can't see a world where that's the case with stuff they announced after the lawsuit started. It's not like it just magically goes away. The updates are still right there on the frontpage.

Yes, there's a lot of stuff you can attribute to their silence, but delay after delay isn't one of them. Unless, and I know this is possible given parallel universes - their programmers are also their lawyers. I find that... suspect.

Chiany
09-22-2014, 11:49 PM
T-shirts aren't available for shipping to Canada... I really hope posters don't end up the same way.


They don't ship to the UK either - this really sucks as I was really hoping to support the Cryptozoic guys and get dat swag :(

They also don't ship to The Netherlands. Sounds like only US costumers can buy them, which sucks big time obviously.
Doesn't look good for our chances to buy posters later on.

Lockon
09-23-2014, 12:24 AM
Chark's said the T-shirts were a test run to see if going to Amazon would solve the foreign sales problem in the "Friday" thread in general discussion. I'd say keep an eye on that thread for more info as well, it might show up there or here.

Flight
09-23-2014, 01:03 AM
None of the UI stuff matters to people playing NOW, and it's us who are already invested. I haven't logged in for real in more than a month; the best news about the game in the last few weeks was the non-expiring Pro Player draft tickets because it meant I didn't have to log in to grab my rares. Let that sink in:

The best news I've heard about Hex recently has been that I didn't have to play it.

Delaying Set 2 until after the (inevitably buggy) UI update and the Open Beta server crashes means that we're unlikely to see new cards this year. By the time it comes out, I'm not sure many of us are still going to give a damn.


This is pretty much where I'm at. I've only used 1 of around my 8 last draft tickets.

Though when I do log in (granted non US prime time) I'll wait in a queue for a while and not enough players are on to get a draft running.

lightreaper
09-23-2014, 02:03 AM
Just wanted to do a follow up post, I tweeted to the Hextcg account and they are confirming they are looking into other options as they thought that with the Amazon storefront they could have shipped worldwide. So people outside the US - don't give up hope for swag!

jonsnow2000
09-25-2014, 05:48 AM
It can't be THAT hard to find a site that lets you sell Merch worldwide ?!? Have you tried geek swag sites like http://www.ookoodook.com/ or http://www.thinkgeek.com/ ???