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View Full Version : Shattered Destiny - What Lurks Below



Shaqattaq
11-25-2014, 10:08 AM
By Dan Clark

Welcome back to our second piece exploring the new Shattered Destiny mechanic: Tunneling. In an earlier article, we explored the mechanic on its base level and how it functions. Today, we will be diving further down the rabbit hole by expanding upon how tunneling works, followed by more previews of powerful tunneling cards (including a Legendary tunneler).

http://hextcg.com/shattered-destiny-what-lurks-below/

bootlace
11-25-2014, 10:17 AM
Question: would reverting a card with a secret counter on it get rid of that secret counter? I presume yes otherwise this legendary is bonkers.

lightreaper
11-25-2014, 10:18 AM
Well there's a Shin'hare enabler if ever I saw one.

Roy_G
11-25-2014, 10:20 AM
The sappire card is misplaced with another picture of Grave Nibbler.

Xenavire
11-25-2014, 10:22 AM
The sappire card is misplaced with another picture of Grave Nibbler.

Looks fine to me.

And its about time we saw a legendary Shin'Hare, and I would say it lives up to the hype.

Roy_G
11-25-2014, 10:24 AM
"Once you tunnel this troop, you will be able to see everything that your opponent is up to. Not only that, but they have no idea that you are aware of all of their plans and tricks. And for a Sapphire troop, this 3 ATK is nothing to scoff at either."

It mentions sapphire troop that tunnels with 3 attack that probably show what's going with the oppoenent tunneling.
Doesn't match the grave nibbler.Which shows up twice.

Khendral
11-25-2014, 10:25 AM
Question: would reverting a card with a secret counter on it get rid of that secret counter? I presume yes otherwise this legendary is bonkers.

Ah, but why would you try and revert that troop? You can't see the secret counter :D

Filk Ape is much more valuable all of a sudden :)

Xenavire
11-25-2014, 10:26 AM
"Once you tunnel this troop, you will be able to see everything that your opponent is up to. Not only that, but they have no idea that you are aware of all of their plans and tricks. And for a Sapphire troop, this 3 ATK is nothing to scoff at either."

It mentions sapphire troop that tunnels with 3 attack that probably show what's going with the oppoenent tunneling.
Doesn't match the grave nibbler.Which shows up twice.

Try clearing your cache, seems like you managed to load a draft page somehow. Because I am looking at it right now, and it is most definitely Subterranean Saboteur.

Shaqattaq
11-25-2014, 10:27 AM
Question: would reverting a card with a secret counter on it get rid of that secret counter? I presume yes otherwise this legendary is bonkers.

Yes, reverting a card gets rid of a secret counter.

Edit: Corrected post, confused cards.

Khendral
11-25-2014, 10:29 AM
Yes, reverting a card gets rid of a secret counter. Remember, though, that tunneling troops are not "in play" and therefore cannot be targeted by actions or troop powers.

But the secret counters are added to troops in play, not to tunelled troops, right?

lightreaper
11-25-2014, 10:32 AM
But the secret counters are added to troops in play, not to tunelled troops, right?Step back and assess the board state though, you're either spending a card to revert a troop you can't even be sure has a secret counter on it (because you don't know about it and the tunnelled troop could be a variety of things), or you have a Filk Ape in play

Shaqattaq
11-25-2014, 10:33 AM
But the secret counters are added to troops in play, not to tunelled troops, right?

Oh, sorry, yes. I was thinking of Grave Nibbler and reversion for some reason. Yes, when you revert troops the troop will lose the counter.

Xenavire
11-25-2014, 10:33 AM
But the secret counters are added to troops in play, not to tunelled troops, right?

Yes, which isn't adding up with what Shaq is saying.

But you can't revert troops in graveyards currently, and that is what Monsuun is so good for - it is a neat way to sac a bunch of troops, or to fight extinction, etc. Because all those troops with secret counters? Brought back free of charge. No real need to worry about reversion except for Filk Ape, really.

bootlace
11-25-2014, 10:38 AM
Ok so the tunneled troops only pick up Monsoon's ability or Inspire effects only when they surface, correct?

MattyTheSquid
11-25-2014, 10:52 AM
Ok so the tunneled troops only pick up Monsoon's ability or Inspire effects only when they surface, correct?

That is correct. The upcoming Shattered Destiny FAQ will go into a bit more depth with the finer details of tunneling, but the abridged version is that using a card's tunneling power to put it underground does not mean that card is entering play, since cards that are underground are not in play. When a card surfaces, though, it's played for free (and gets Speed that turn), so that's the point at which it should be entering play and picking up things like Inspire bonuses or Monsuun's decoy counters.

Khendral
11-25-2014, 10:53 AM
So tunneled troops can be countered when they surface, but not when they go underground, right?

ossuary
11-25-2014, 10:57 AM
So tunneled troops can be countered when they surface, but not when they go underground, right?

That's what we were told, yes.

MattyTheSquid
11-25-2014, 11:42 AM
So tunneled troops can be countered when they surface, but not when they go underground, right?

Yes, the normal window to interrupt a tunneled card is when it surfaces, not when it goes underground.

Vorsa
11-25-2014, 12:04 PM
Some nice cards there! :cool:

Underfoot Commander = Not that taken, but a good card for heavy Tunneling decks - if those prove practical given the time taken to get troops out.

Excavation Bot = Nice supplemental card for Tunneling, though there of cards being revealed now that you wouldn't actually want to accelerate.

Grave Nibbler = SO CUTE - sadly I see no real benefit to it over a vanilla 4/4 for 4, other than the Shin'hare keyword.

Subterranean Spy = Amazing! Looking at an opponent's hand is nearly worth the 2 cost by itself (not quite as Inquisition does something more for that amount), so getting to see it for multiple turns and then get a 3/2 troop out of it also is pretty special.

Monsuun, Shogun of Winda'jin = Wunderbar! Incredible combos available for this guy, but the great things is he doesn't even need them to pay dividends as he looks a tremendous revival effect simply for standard play. My first must-have legendary for the set. :)

countermind
11-25-2014, 12:38 PM
I really hope there is some way to mess up tunneled troops before they surface.

ossuary
11-25-2014, 12:51 PM
I really hope there is some way to mess up tunneled troops before they surface.

Cave In.

Deathfog
11-25-2014, 01:11 PM
I'm sure there are some ruby/orc cards specifically designed around ruining tunneling fun.

darkwonders
11-25-2014, 01:40 PM
Well Goblins are notorious for explosives. I'm sure they'll have a blast with tunnelers :)

ossuary
11-25-2014, 03:59 PM
We've got explosives!

Kaboom!

Oooh, it's beautiful...

mister_Rollup
11-25-2014, 05:10 PM
Hi !

I just have a simple question about the mechanics of the counter, on the first article they wrote :

"At the start of each turn these cards will receive a Tunneling counter, and once they have gained counters equal to the Tunneling number they will enter play FOR FREE!! "

but in today's article :

"the troop will tunnel beneath the board and begin gaining tunneling counters at the start of each of your turns."

The good one is our turns or all turns ?

darkwonders
11-25-2014, 05:17 PM
Hi !

I just have a simple question about the mechanics of the counter, on the first article they wrote :

"At the start of each turn these cards will receive a Tunneling counter, and once they have gained counters equal to the Tunneling number they will enter play FOR FREE!! "

but in today's article :

"the troop will tunnel beneath the board and begin gaining tunneling counters at the start of each of your turns."

The good one is our turns or all turns ?

I'm pretty sure it'll just be your turn. Most continuously activated abilities tend to happen during the controlling player's turn.

Xenavire
11-25-2014, 06:51 PM
Definitely only at the start of your turn, not the opponents.

DanTheMeek
11-25-2014, 06:53 PM
All though I absolutely loved the art, I was pretty disapointed with all the Shin'hare reveals until I got to Monsuun... at which point I found that I was throwing money uncontrollably at my monitor. Wow, just wow, soooo good. It's just a shame that because of his rarity the only place I'm ever likely to see him is on the other side of the board, beating me down and mocking me for not being in the top 1% of wealth in the world

In non shin'hare topics, the spy seems really good too, especially for a common, definitely seeing that being a solid draft pick.

Underfoot seems like he could be okay in a dedicated tunneler deck, but I don't know that he's even really all that amazing there, just okay, while pretty bad everywhere else, while grave nibbler seems kind of bad everywhere to be honest, I'm struggling to think of a situation where I'd want to use him, and he actually works against Underfoot, since his effect is a set rather then a boost, and not optional, he would reduce his own attack back to 4/4 if boosted above that by under foot, ouch. Art is amazing though, I'd love deck sleeves of that.

The excavation bot has potential, I can see myself taking him a lot in drafts if theres as much tunneling in this set as their seems to be, but with out seeing more of the set its difficult to say if he'd be viable in constructed. His biggest saving grace is that he gets that effect even if you don't tunnel him, so if there are viable constructed cards with long tunneling turn counts, its certainly possible he could be worth using.

Anyway.... man... seeing how good Monsuun is and then seeing his legendary really makes me sad, and really REALLY makes me wish this game wasn't so dang expensive, but other then the knowledge that I'll probably never see one in my collection, the hype is real. I really give Hex team props, I feel like they really did something truly impressive (and from the looks of it quite fun) with the advantages the digital media has provided them. Being able to see your opponents hand with out them knowing it is just too cool.

Xenavire
11-25-2014, 06:59 PM
Dan, if I ever have more than I need, I will keep you in mind. :)

DanTheMeek
11-25-2014, 07:22 PM
Hey now, I know what you're trying to do and I'll have you know that I can't be bought!

(Actually I can and Monsuun would be THE ideal way to buy me, infact I'll be having an extended cyber monday and black friday sale where I can be bought for only a single playset of Monsuun, thats like such a good deal you'd be a fool to pass it up)

((I have no idea what your trying to do (besides presumably be nice and awesome) or what it would even mean to buy me, so I'm apparently panicking and posting something really stupid))

On topic. Monsuun. It's pretty good.

Gwaer
11-25-2014, 07:41 PM
I very much doubt a playset is going to cost you that much as singles on the AH

Xenavire
11-25-2014, 07:44 PM
*Amusing response here*
On topic. Monsuun. It's pretty good.

It is very good - maybe not instant tier stuff, but imagine blood/diamond Monsuun + Hopeheart! Evade an extinction or simply recur everything... Or both, and get back the Hopeheart for another dodge!

Its definitely neat, and packs a wallop if you time it right.

Axle
11-25-2014, 08:45 PM
Clearly I need to make a shitty Monsuun Storm Cloud Value deck. Screw all the actual good decks he can be in :P.

Cotton
11-25-2014, 10:41 PM
All though I absolutely loved the art, I was pretty disapointed with all the Shin'hare reveals until I got to Monsuun... at which point I found that I was throwing money uncontrollably at my monitor. Wow, just wow, soooo good. It's just a shame that because of his rarity the only place I'm ever likely to see him is on the other side of the board, beating me down and mocking me for not being in the top 1% of wealth in the world

Anyway.... man... seeing how good Monsuun is and then seeing his legendary really makes me sad, and really REALLY makes me wish this game wasn't so dang expensive, but other then the knowledge that I'll probably never see one in my collection, the hype is real. I really give Hex team props, I feel like they really did something truly impressive (and from the looks of it quite fun) with the advantages the digital media has provided them. Being able to see your opponents hand with out them knowing it is just too cool.

lol if you can't afford $12/each then what money were you throwing exactly?
The set isn't as big as set 1, I'm sure you'll see a cpl in drafts eventually

Malicus
11-25-2014, 11:17 PM
Underfoot seems like he could be okay in a dedicated tunneler deck, but I don't know that he's even really all that amazing there, just okay, while pretty bad everywhere else, while grave nibbler seems kind of bad everywhere to be honest, I'm struggling to think of a situation where I'd want to use him, and he actually works against Underfoot, since his effect is a set rather then a boost, and not optional, he would reduce his own attack back to 4/4 if boosted above that by under foot, ouch. Art is amazing though, I'd love deck sleeves of that.


It is a set not a revert so they actually work fine together - buffs are permanent but cards still know their base values so if a 2/2 was buffed +1/+1 then became a 4/4 it would be a 5/5 as it is a 4/4 with +1/+1.

Phenyx
11-26-2014, 05:35 AM
Maybe I'm missing something, but the loss of the "permanent" part from the boost given Underfoot Commander (and on Grave Nibbler) is a typo ? Or is it because boosts on underground troops is obviously permanent ?

ossuary
11-26-2014, 06:05 AM
I don't think Grave Nibbler doesn't needs it, because it's not exactly a buff, its ability is modifying it from a 2/2 to a 4/4. But Underfoot Commander really ought to say "gets permanent +1/+1" instead of just "gets +1/+1." It's inconsistent with what we currently see... that's a good catch.

Phenyx
11-26-2014, 07:21 AM
Yeah but without the permanently, even Grave Nibbler would usually rollback to it's 2/2 status at the end of the turn.

nickon
11-26-2014, 07:55 AM
Yeah but without the permanently, even Grave Nibbler would usually rollback to it's 2/2 status at the end of the turn.

I think the word "becomes" covers that, like oss said.

Xenavire
11-26-2014, 08:14 AM
Exactly - 'becomes' doesn't have an extra listed duration, so its like any permanent modifier.

ossuary
11-26-2014, 08:53 AM
Maybe it's a templating change, and they're removing the whole "permanently" thing across the board to avoid the confusion with the revert canceling "permanent" buffs scenario? I don't know... maybe it needs more clarification.

Gwaer
11-26-2014, 11:07 AM
Seems like a templating change, effects default to permanent unless stated otherwise perhaps?

Phenyx
11-26-2014, 01:55 PM
Exactly - 'becomes' doesn't have an extra listed duration, so its like any permanent modifier.
You may be right, I'm home now and I checked Blood Cauldron Ritualist and he has the "this turn" part.

So for now, if the card doesn't state a duration for an effect it's permanent. Well it's a good thing that HEX is a digital game, old cards can be updated without any problem :)