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Shaqattaq
11-26-2014, 04:32 PM
by Matt Dunn

Shards of Fate focused on four of the eight main races: the Shin’hare, the Dwarves, the Orcs, and the Humans. Shattered Destiny continues to explore those four, expanding on their themes and helping to flesh out their worlds. Today, we’ll be looking at how the culture of the Orcs is translated through the cards.

https://hextcg.com/shattered-destiny-orcs/

Maverickroll
11-26-2014, 04:40 PM
Thrall, is that you?

Showsni
11-26-2014, 04:41 PM
Ooh. Did someone say shard destruction deck?

Mejis
11-26-2014, 04:44 PM
Very cool thanks.

Is there still a video inbound somewhere? Or has that been delayed for today?

Glae
11-26-2014, 04:57 PM
Were spoilers removed from this article to stretch them out an additional week? Or was it intended to be way shorter than the Humans or Tunneling article?

Got super hyped that we'd be getting *some* good news today, and the article feels more like a slap in the face than something that could get the hype train back on track.

Shaqattaq
11-26-2014, 05:13 PM
Spoilers are going to be of various length. Each piece is attempting to do something different in form and flavor. We have hundreds of cards to spoil. We're not worried about running out of cards, though we don't intend to spoil every card. There's value to having some wonder and mystery in the world. You'll also find even more cards spoiled every day on streams, fan websites, etc... As for a slap in the face, I recommend not taking card previews in such a personal way.

poizonous
11-26-2014, 05:41 PM
yeah Shaq sorry to disagree but there is less value inn mystery and wonder than there is to spoilers and hype

Glae
11-26-2014, 05:49 PM
Fair enough. I apologize for asking. The awkward timing of an article a fraction of the length of the articles within the same set and an abrupt end on the same day as the delay made me curious. For which I also apologize.

I also am of the opinion that trying trying to get some positive hype going during a time of bad news would be valuable. But I am wrong as clearly "wonder and mystery" are the correct contents for announcement articles and spoilers.

I am sorry for asking these questions or expressing these opinions.

asdf2000
11-26-2014, 05:50 PM
Card looks crazy!

Shaqattaq
11-26-2014, 05:59 PM
Fair enough. I apologize for asking. The awkward timing of an article a fraction of the length of the articles within the same set and an abrupt end on the same day as the delay made me curious. For which I also apologize.

It's a fair question. I didn't mind answering it. Though you'll see a variety in number of cards previewed here day-to-day, remember that there are also websites that have Shattered Destiny previews and streamers as well who are featuring cards. It can be a little fractured at times, but we prefer to give something special to websites that are out there creating communities and players who are making content that helps players improve their game.

Glae
11-26-2014, 06:21 PM
And I think the fan site spoilers are very cool.

I just found the timing of the bad news, a cut in half article and disappointment of the quantity of spoilers for the race I was actually interested to be very unfortunate. That's all.

I very much wanted this article to get me back and excited for a Set 2 launch after finding out I won't be able to participate in the rescheduled release event, but honestly I feel more let down now than I did several hours ago.

juggernaut
11-26-2014, 07:39 PM
Now we just need a way to make Plan C a quick action for some very good times.

Zomnivore
11-27-2014, 12:16 AM
I like that orc B)

Maylick
11-27-2014, 01:22 AM
Although Shaq already answered to anyone wondering about article length, I would like to add some. Remember that there also filler cards, like Rigid Buffalo or so, that are not really quite intresting to spoil. Also sometimes there might be cool new cards that are currently missing their place in metagame, but have great potential in future. You can't tell alot about them right now without major spoilers about next Sets (minor spoilers are good tho, they are hyping both community and devs, feels good ^_^). There are some more reasons which makes this process (spoilering) even more complicated.

Believe me, you can't make an article for every single card when new Set goes around. I'm doing those for many years for other TCG, and every little bit of information should be stuck together to give players precise and hyping impression. HEX is doing great so far and I just want to say thanks one more time to all HEX team members for making The Game.

Ssysyl
11-27-2014, 09:18 AM
tree resources left is enough to stop the 7/6 with a murderer.
I suppose next spoil is about dwarf card, but i'm jumping out of one's skin for looking spoils about new necrotic cards, expecially about blood and saphire or a likely a wild one.

Punk
11-27-2014, 09:40 AM
...though we don't intend to spoil every card.

I like this.

It will add a lot more excitement on release day, as opposed to MTG where every card is spoiled so far in advance that it lets me mock draft the entire set for weeks before its release. Release days for Hex sets will be way more entertaining.

Odai
11-27-2014, 10:12 AM
Why does the cards only say allways "when this..." this sound wierd.

Why not "When this CARD..." or "When played..."?

Shaqattaq
11-27-2014, 10:14 AM
Why does the cards only say allways "when this..." this sound wierd.

Why not "When this CARD..." or "When played..."?

That's a great question. Very perceptive of you. We have an entire article on that topic coming with the patch notes. It will explain why that's an improvement and actually makes readability more clear for players.

Glae
11-27-2014, 10:26 AM
That's a great question. Very perceptive of you. We have an entire article on that topic coming with the patch notes. It will explain why that's an improvement and actually makes readability more clear for players.

Ugh. Really? At gencon "this" seemed like it was improper formatting, that's really intentional? And it makes "readability more clear?" That seems to be the exact opposite of every players opinion at that time, so I am anxiously awaiting said article.

Is there an ETA on that on? Tomorrow, next week etc?

Shaqattaq
11-27-2014, 10:32 AM
Ugh. Really? At gencon "this" seemed like it was improper formatting, that's really intentional? And it makes "readability more clear?" That seems to be the exact opposite of every players opinion at that time, so I am anxiously awaiting said article.

Is there an ETA on that on? Tomorrow, next week etc?

Yup. It will go up with the patch notes. There are some great examples on why the change helps in the piece, so I think players will come around to the new templating.

Odai
11-27-2014, 10:48 AM
Me too. I allways had problems "with this" (im german) and its just arkward to read for me somehow. (i hope the german translation will change that wierdness somehow)

Axle
11-27-2014, 10:49 AM
Ugh. Really? At gencon "this" seemed like it was improper formatting, that's really intentional? And it makes "readability more clear?" That seems to be the exact opposite of every players opinion at that time, so I am anxiously awaiting said article.

Is there an ETA on that on? Tomorrow, next week etc?


Well it opens up design space so that a troop can be transformed into an action. Said action would keep the troops "on play" effect. This could be a troop literally becoming a quick action without the stats, or just an action copying the troops ability after targeting it on the field. Otherwise it would say "When this troop" but it's not a troop.

And for "this card", I dunno. Having something that is not actually a card in a trading card game would be weird but maybe there could be a similar transfer of abilities to one of your thresholds. Thresholds aren't cards.

That's me thinking about the change on a design basis though. On just the readability of right now, I've got no guesses.

Edswor
11-27-2014, 01:16 PM
Yup. It will go up with the patch notes. There are some great examples on why the change helps in the piece, so I think players will come around to the new templating.

This change will be also in set 1 cards or only the new ones?

ossuary
11-27-2014, 05:19 PM
Personally, I think a better use of the digital space would be to use variable identifiers, rather than changing the text to be universally non-specific. Like, you took the idea of using the digital space to turn cards of one type into cards of another type (which is cool), but didn't take it to the logical conclusion that you can ALSO use the digital nature of the cards to adjust card text appropriately after the change.

All you have to do is set up some variable types with possible values:

Card Type: TROOP, QUICK ACTION, CONSTANT, etc.
Event Type: enters play, resolves, dies, is interrupted, etc.

Example Card:
3 cost Blood troop that is a 3/1.

The card text with variables in the system is:
"When this [card type] [event type], deal 2 damage to target champion or troop. {If [card type] = TROOP then add text 'When this troop dies, transform it into a QUICK ACTION and return it to your hand.'}"

What it reads like in client when it's a TROOP:
"When this troop enters play, deal 2 damage to target champion or troop.
When this troop dies, transform it into a QUICK ACTION and return it to your hand."

What it reads like when it goes back to your hand as a QUICK ACTION:
"When this quick action resolves, deal 2 damage to target champion or troop."

You can set up any number of variables and conditions for this sort of stuff, and the card text can update on the fly so it reads correctly no matter what state the card is in - without having to think up generic language that is clunky and hard to wrap your mind around. Once again, we are using the digital client to do the legwork, while still being able to use unique language for each card type that makes sense for that card type.

Gwaer
11-27-2014, 06:42 PM
I love that idea, can click it and see the different text for the different card types, maybe in a few years that can be an added mechanic, it's probably too complex to ever actually be used... But I still like it.

ossuary
11-27-2014, 08:57 PM
I freely admit that it would be more work to get up and running (which probably makes it a very bad fit for where we are in development!), but my programmer's mind went straight there when I first heard about cards that transform into different types.

Then again, I'm the guy who uses VB script to auto-generate and format a report rather than compiling it by hand, and who writes scripts to generate form letters with proper single vs. plural recipient verbiage rather than using a regular mail merge, and who didn't want to pay for Quicken so wrote my own accounting software for fun. I've also been known to dream up code from time to time, and even, on occasion, dream in code. :p

The idea of using actual scripts to manage the cards' functions and contextual identifiers is fascinating to me. :)

Gwaer
11-27-2014, 09:23 PM
My concern isn't coding, but complexity for players.

Odai
11-28-2014, 03:44 AM
...
What it reads like in client when it's a TROOP:
"When this troop enters play, deal 2 damage to target champion or troop.
When this troop dies, transform it into a QUICK ACTION and return it to your hand."

What it reads like when it goes back to your hand as a QUICK ACTION:
"When this quick action resolves, deal 2 damage to target champion or troop."
...


Jeah thats what i would like to see too, it just sounds so much better and is easier to understand (imo).
Also it would be possible to replace the "this" with the card name itself

"When this enters play, ..."
"When Destructive Marauder enters play, ..."

ossuary
11-28-2014, 04:27 AM
My concern isn't coding, but complexity for players.

Well it wouldn't actually be complicated for players, because the engine would handle all that on the backend. The player just sees the results of the scripting, so the card is always simple and clear as to what it does, in whatever stage of transformation it's at.

This system puts the burden of complexity on the engine, but is relatively simple to use once you build the rules system, so the designers wouldn't be overly taxed once they got used to attaching the variable flags, and it would be completely transparent to the players.

Glae
11-28-2014, 07:20 AM
I can't think of a single situation in which "this" allows for the effect to trigger where "this card" would not.

Thresholds may not be cards, but the shards that generate them are. Also for clarities sake I hope we actually don't see transforming card text. Neat as it may be, we'll get into situations where the reading of a card actually hurts player's understanding of how it works mechanically. For example, if use a polymorph dingler or some sort of future variant on solitary exile to transform a card with "this," I would expect that effect to go away, not carry over for some reason. It would be bad if the effect would just pop through unexpectedly after transforming into another type of card, which is the only reason I've heard which attempts to justify the change.

The wide assessment during Gencon was that it was simply going to pull the troops racial type, but those werent displaying correctly at the time anyway. IE "this" becomes "this Orc." I don't really recall anyone saying they thought it was clearer, but I suppose we'll have to deal with their decision and see what the justification is.

There was a pretty long thread at the time entitled " I don't like "this" " but I can't seem to find it. It looks like quotes in the title are making it difficult to find using the search engine.

ossuary
11-28-2014, 07:40 AM
If you did a revert and transform effect (like dingler), that erases everything from the old card, that behaviour wouldn't change with my suggestion. Even a regular transform (monkey of the nine tails) erases the base text of the old card, it just leaves alone subsequent permanent buffs / debuffs, so again, it would continue to not bring across the card-type specific text I'm suggesting.

Glae
11-28-2014, 10:08 AM
That's kinda my point. So I'm curious what sort of transform effect we would see that could say, change a troop into an action or constant that wouldn't just act more like Polymorph Dingler and completely transform the card anyway.

Barring some new hyper specific example that wouldnt work just as easily with a polymorph that transformed into a constant, but doesn't remove the troop's text. But even if "Polymorph Constant" exists as a card, the newly transformed constant is still a card. So I don't see why "this" is more appropriate than "this card."

Additionally I still think cards which change their text willy nilly are bad. If its a card that for example affects cards of the same type, it should just say that. If its a troop that destroys another troop, that doesn't mean if I transform it into a constant it should destroy another constant. If that's the intended effect it should say "card of the same type," rather than leaving guesswork and mystery to the player with regards to what it actually does.

Furthermore, this particular card has effects on entering play, so I once again can't think of a situation where it could be transformed that this makes sense. I guess if we get a troop to action transform that affects cards in hand or deck this card wouldn't "enter play" anyway. If it works while the troop is already in play and thus doesn't need to be played from your hand or drawn from your deck, then the effect still doesn't resolve anyway since it has already entered play.