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Phenteo
12-16-2014, 06:54 AM
We've smoothed out the transformation rules for cards, Ben Stoll, Director of Game Theory and Lead Designer of Shattered Destiny explains more!

https://hextcg.com/transformation-nation-2/

ryuukan
12-16-2014, 07:29 AM
good change

I was pretty scared when my opponent played a replica Oracle Song with crush over the weekend

Vengus
12-16-2014, 07:36 AM
It would have been pretty weird in some cases indeed. I think a better way of doing these things is by making some actions specifically for these kind of interactions and give them sockets.

Xenavire
12-16-2014, 07:36 AM
One of these days, you’ll still be able to play “Target action gets “when you play this, copy it three times”” targeting your Burn, then transform it into a Ruby Shard with Alchemical Dimensionalist, and then bypass the resource rule on turn 4 three times and that crazy tri-shard Wild Root Dancer combo deck that you’ve been having prophetic dreams about will finally come together!!! Anyhow, thanks for reading, HEXers! I hope you’re enjoying the new set and I can’t wait to see what crazy decks you all cook up!

Dammit Ben. That hurts, now I want PvE so much that I don't even have words for the level of craving I feel. (I assume PvE since it seems unlikely that you would spoil set 3 cards already. :p)

Justiis
12-16-2014, 08:35 AM
I had an issue in a tournament this weekend regarding card transformations that I never got around to reporting. I used Replicator's Trance to create a replica of Mentor of the Flames. The replica was an artifact, and when it died it transformed into a shardless artifact basic action. I then tried targeting a Overtime Bot (with Dwarven Ballistics Training, no less :P) and the card resolved without actually doing anything. I wasn't paying much attention at the time, but the next round I did the same thing with Mentor of the Song (creating a shardless quick action) and played it to see if it would do anything and all it did was use up 3 resources and go to the grave, leaving me with no cards in hand. I'd assume this is a known issue, but I didn't see it in the patch notes. Any word on a fix for that?

thiememd
12-16-2014, 08:47 AM
We've smoothed out the transformation rules for cards, Ben Stoll, Director of Game Theory and Lead Designer of Shattered Destiny explains more!

https://hextcg.com/transformation-nation-2/

I love clarifications like this, but I have a question. When a Worker Bot (1/1) DEFENSIVE transforms into anything else, why doesn't whatever it transforms into retain DEFENSIVE? Do Worker Bots gain DEFENSIVE upon creation and then are reverted?

ossuary
12-16-2014, 08:53 AM
Abilities that are inherently attached to a card are not the same as permanent modifications a card "gets." Any card text that a card already has on it applies to that card only, if you transform that troop into something else, it doesn't retain its old "base" abilities. Casting Angelic Ascension on a Feral Ogre, for example, does not give you an angel with Crush. Casting Wild Aura on a Battle Hopper and then casting Angelic Ascension on it, however, does (a 6/6 one no less!).

In order for a transformed troop to retain the defensive keyword, it would have to be added on to the troop after it was in play, rather than being a "base" ability of the vanilla troop, for example by Dread Monolith.

Krond
12-16-2014, 08:54 AM
Awesome article! I very much enjoy learning about the R&D process; how and why they come to the conclusions that they come to.

I think the line they took with transformation rules is a good omen for the future. They are keenly aware that adding unnecessary complexity is something to avoid, but they don't want to sacrifice everything in the name of simplicity.

Complexity vs. simplicity is a hard line to walk, but it looks like Cryptozoic is on the right track.

thiememd
12-16-2014, 09:02 AM
Abilities that are inherently attached to a card are not the same as permanent modifications a card "gets." Any card text that a card already has on it applies to that card only, if you transform that troop into something else, it doesn't retain its old "base" abilities. Casting Angelic Ascension on a Feral Ogre, for example, does not give you an angel with Crush. Casting Wild Aura on a Battle Hopper and then casting Angelic Ascension on it, however, does (a 6/6 one no less!).

In order for a transformed troop to retain the defensive keyword, it would have to be added on to the troop after it was in play, rather than being a "base" ability of the vanilla troop, for example by Dread Monolith.

Brilliant explanation sir, thank you so much!

ossuary
12-16-2014, 09:43 AM
Happy to help. :)

BenStoll
12-16-2014, 10:41 AM
Indeed, couldn't have said it better myself, Oss ;)

ossuary
12-16-2014, 12:48 PM
Thanks!

I'm a bit of a logic / rules nerd, in case it hasn't become obvious by now. ;)

Despite what Gwaer thinks, I am never "wrong" about rules, I am just drawing inaccurate conclusions as a result of incomplete information. :p

Gwaer
12-16-2014, 01:12 PM
This is the saddest thing that has ever happened to hex IMO. I have been looking forward to these interactions forever. I do understand it is easier, and will make the game easier to get into... Doesn't really help though =(

I'll get over it I'm sure. Probably easier than things not being on the stack =P

ossuary
12-16-2014, 01:22 PM
Yeah, as much as I liked the idea of lifedrain burns or lethal burns (or Burn to the Ground! drool), I dislike this modification FAR less than I disliked the changes to the stack (especially how it's now impossible to save yourself from start of turn damage with Immortality / Blinding Light - still think any trigger that causes damage should go on the chain!).

I freely admit that allowing all those crazy transformations would have severely added to the complication of the game, especially over time. In that respect, it's probably necessary to handle it this way (though that still begs the question why some keywords like lifedrain work out of play and others don't - if consistency and not having to keep track of specific weird regional rules is the goal, what's the justification for that?).

Yoss
12-16-2014, 02:01 PM
Is it just me or is the text on the angel in the article wrong? (It should not have the "Target troop gets" part.)

Maylick
12-16-2014, 02:06 PM
Is there a refference to a new card in the end? Alchemical Dimensionalist (probably PvE) who converts card of X threshold into the X shard.

Yoss
12-16-2014, 02:07 PM
Is there a refference to a new card in the end? Alchemical Dimensionalist (probably PvE) who converts card of X threshold into the X shard.

http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39884

Maylick
12-16-2014, 02:14 PM
http://forums.cryptozoic.com/showthread.php?t=39884

Uh, my bad, didn't checked for the thread first. Ty

BenStoll
12-16-2014, 04:35 PM
Hey Yoss,

Yeah, the text is slightly wrong as you pointed out. Just an oversight while they were building the images don't read anything into it :)

Yoss
12-16-2014, 05:27 PM
Hey Yoss,

Yeah, the text is slightly wrong as you pointed out. Just an oversight while they were building the images don't read anything into it :)

At first I thought it was trying to say that the angel could grant the ping ability to other troops over and over. That would have been crazy.

Voormas
12-16-2014, 06:28 PM
I read those new rules and then was immediately confused, but I got it eventually

"When an action or resource card would transform into a non-action, non-resource card, it reverts prior to the transformation"

I first took this to mean when an action turned into a non-action + when a resource turned into a non-resource, but it's literally when an Action/Resource turns into something that isn't one of those two types (so Action > Resource and Resource > Action are both safe from reversion)


Looking forward to messing around with janky combos that exploit this to the fullest!